JMV having traces of doubt in his opinion on this situation

[zibby43]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Total conjecture on my part: His comments about being 'in a dark place' coupled with Irsay's comments about his mind state make me wonder if he was really having some dangerous thoughts when he was rehabbing in 2017. He might have some struggles with emotional instability that he felt starting to pop back up, and he might have decided way back when that he was not going to sacrifice his mental and emotional well being to play football anymore. Especially now that he's married and has a kid on the way.

 

That might be sensational, and again, that's just my speculative thinking. Not a rumor...

 

I think you’re onto something here.  And even though you are being very respectful and cautious in labeling it speculation, it is in fact very well-informed speculation based on nuggets of information gleaned from reliable and knowledgeable sources.

 

Overall, just way better and more thoughtful commentary than what is being tossed around on social media.

[RockThatBlue]

3 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

It came up yesterday...

 

If this is true it tells me that sometime in Lucks life he must've had an addiction problem. And hes scared to have that problem again and possibly end up dead.

[presto123]

3 hours ago, CanuckColt said:

I think Rick is closest to the truth...Andrew is probably suffering from depression. When that happens you just cannot function properly...the only option is to bail.

 

Brought up this possibility a couple days ago. When Luck mentioned "dark days" multiple times, it's one of the first things I thought of. We may never know the complete truth, but it makes sense. Most NFL players probably feel like they couldn't even use depression as an excuse to step away either. The stigma would make them look weak. Coming up with an injury would be a way out. Not saying that's what happened here, but makes one wonder. Nobody knows what Luck is dealing with other than the man himself. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[GoColts8818]

This is my theory and I want to stress it’s just a theory.

 

I think Luck hurt himself doing something he shouldn’t have been doing during the off-season.

 

Luck started to rehab and realized he was just sick of it and I think some depression set in.  So I think during OTAs he went to the team and said he was thinking about retiring and in order to buy him time to think about it they started pushing the injury thing.  From there I think they started to prepare as if Brissett was the guy but hoped for the best from Luck.

 

I think they set a deadline of the third pre-season game to give him as much time as they could to think about it and hoped getting him back to camp around his teammates would get those juices flowing again but they just didn’t.  

 

I think they were comfortable with the late deadline because the whole time they were preparing as if Brissett, a guy they think very highly of, was going to be the starter.  

 

Again that is just my theory.  I have no way to back any of it up.

[braveheartcolt]

Perhaps the lad is telling the truth. John Grisham could not pen some of the theories being banded around. I also think we should give Brissett some playing time before we start crying in our cornflakes. Where is all the admiration for Ballard and Reich's philosophy gone? Or has it always just been about the QB? I am going to hope we are still on the way up, at least until I see otherwise.

[Superman]

5 hours ago, John Waylon said:

 

To be technical, would there be anything to stop him from joining an XFL team, or the league in an off the field capacity?

 

Because I HAVE silently wondered to myself in recent days about that. Not saying it was a catalyst for the move or anything, but the connection is certainly there if it were to be chased, and was the first thought in my mind when I heard about an XFL connection.   

 

I think there's a CBA clause about players going from a different league to the NFL. I'm not sure there's anything specific preventing a player from leaving the NFL to play for a different league.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, braveheartcolt said:

Perhaps the lad is telling the truth. John Grisham could not pen some of the theories being banded around. I also think we should give Brissett some playing time before we start crying in our cornflakes. Where is all the admiration for Ballard and Reich's philosophy gone? Or has it always just been about the QB? I am going to hope we are still on the way up, at least until I see otherwise.

 

I'm all about the team being able to withstand the loss of the starting QB. When it happens and the team succeeds, it's always a fun story. Warner, Brady, Foles, and whoever else I'm missing... when the team can rally around the backup and he takes off, it's great to see. (Random fact, I was really pulling for Brady in 2001. What a stupid guy I was...)

 

But your QB getting hurt is different than him abruptly retiring. 

 

Even setting that aside, going from a guy like Luck to a backup level guy like Brissett -- and I hope Reich is right and Brissett is a top 20 guy, but I don't see it -- is deflating. Especially in late August.

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Perhaps the lad is telling the truth. John Grisham could not pen some of the theories being banded around. I also think we should give Brissett some playing time before we start crying in our cornflakes. Where is all the admiration for Ballard and Reich's philosophy gone? Or has it always just been about the QB? I am going to hope we are still on the way up, at least until I see otherwise.

Well, the QB is by far the most important individual player on the team, and we aren't one of those elite SB defenses that can carry the team yet. Hard to be optimistic at this point with such a hit to the QB position.

[Luck 4 president]

Sounds like almost everyone is in agreement that his issues are more mental than physical. Could he possibly have CTE? It seems like people with CTE don’t act like themselves and have very abnormal decision making.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Luck 4 president said:

Sounds like almost everyone is in agreement that his issues are more mental than physical. Could he possibly have CTE? It seems like people with CTE don’t act like themselves and have very abnormal decision making.

How many concussions did he get? That would surprise me, especially at his age.

[stitches]

7 hours ago, John Waylon said:

Here’s another curiosity about this:

 

He worked out before the Browns game because “he felt like it may be the last time to do it at LOS”? 

 

Why not the Bears game? Why didn’t he go out during that warmup and do some stuff? 

 

I don't know. It makes less and less sense all the time. 

 

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think there's a CBA clause about players going from a different league to the NFL. I'm not sure there's anything specific preventing a player from leaving the NFL to play for a different league.

There is a non-compete clause in his contract. 

 

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1573683/000104746913009713/a2216998zex-10_3.htm

 

Section 3 of the standard player contracts for the NFL:

 

 

Quote

3.                                      OTHER ACTIVITIES.  Without prior written consent of the Club, Player will not play football or engage in activities related to football otherwise than for Club or engage in any activity other than football which may involve a significant risk of personal injury. Player represents that he has special, exceptional and unique knowledge, skill, ability, and experience as a football player, the loss of which cannot be estimated with any certainty and cannot be fairly or adequately compensated by damages. Player therefore agrees that Club will have the right, in addition to any other right which Club may possess, to enjoin Player by appropriate proceedings from playing football or engaging in football-related activities other than for Club or from engaging in any activity other than football which may involve a significant risk of personal injury.

 

Unless the Colts give him permission he won't play anywhere else. From what I gather this is a relatively easy one to enforce by going to court and courts act pretty quickly in cases like those from what I understand. 

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

How many concussions did he get? That would surprise me, especially at his age.

at least 1 is documented, at least 2 more are very possible. 

[Luck 4 president]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

How many concussions did he get? That would surprise me, especially at his age.

I think he only had a couple that caused him to miss practice/games. But concussions aren’t black and white. He could have had minor concussions every week that went unnoticed and untreated. 

[Dustin]

I dont know if I'd go so far as to say "faking it", but I believe there's more to this mysterious calf injury then we're led to believe. 

[austriancolt]

I feel for him and think he has a depression as a result of injuries and the fact that he had to carry this organization for years now. As someone who is dealing with depression too it is just hard to admit or explain it to other people. It's a terrible disease and Luck probably just got to that point where he couldn't cover it up any longer. I  hope the best for him and his family!

[2006Coltsbestever]

I was talking to my step-dad on the phone earlier about Andrew's press conference. He told me something wasn't right with the way he was acting, he looked depressed and down. He has taken a lot of hits and my guess is, he has had minor concussions that weren't even diagnosed. That probably happens all the time with other players as well. I hope his brain is healthy and I am being serious, it may not be? The decision to retire 2 weeks before the season was odd as you have teammates that rely on you and thousands of fans that root for you. I hope he doesn't have early signs of CTE or brain damage. We do not know what he has been going through. He may wake up some mornings with blurred vision or maybe he is forgetful about things lately and is worried about it. Who knows? That is just speculation on my part but possible. 

[superrep1967]

8 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Supports my theory that if Luck does decide to comeback Ballard isn’t going to welcome him back with open arms.  While Ballard is going to do and say the right things I think the timing of this really upsets him and while he might understand why Andrew did what he did Ballard is going to look at what he did and think he quit on us once what would stop him from doing it again.

You so right it's scary I think that's exactly the case I applaud you. 

[superrep1967]

33 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I was talking to my step-dad on the phone earlier about Andrew's press conference. He told me something wasn't right with the way he was acting, he looked depressed and down. He has taken a lot of hits and my guess is, he has had minor concussions that weren't even diagnosed. That probably happens all the time with other players as well. I hope his brain is healthy and I am being serious, it may not be? The decision to retire 2 weeks before the season was odd as you have teammates that rely on you and thousands of fans that root for you. I hope he doesn't have early signs of CTE or brain damage. We do not know what he has been going through. He may wake up some mornings with blurred vision or maybe he is forgetful about things lately and is worried about it. Who knows? That is just speculation on my part but possible. 

Your right we don't know but possible. 

[HungarianColtsFan]

9 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

JMV actually said he'd heard that from a source? Because I saw that on an Instagram comment as well, except it was about wanting to spend time with his kid (even though the kid isn't due until the new year).

I thought it sounded pretty fake, really.
 

 

 

Agreed, I saw this story on FB too, and seemed very fake. 'Hidden source whos dad and brother has a close friend who talked to Irsay...  Not buying it until further proof.

 

On the flop side, IMHO Luck's retirement is not exclusively based on in his last injuries (experts said it is not something to worry about). 

[GusFring]

I don't see Irsay letting Luck keep 24mil in bonus money if there is no injury. 

[HungarianColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, GusFring said:

I don't see Irsay letting Luck keep 24mil in bonus money if there is no injury. 

 

IMO there was some kind injury, but it wasn't the only reason of Luck's retirement. That injury looked manageable. 

[Coltsfan66]

11 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Was he married at some point during his shoulder recovery?

They had been together since he attended Stanford and officially married earlier this year.

[John Waylon]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

 

There is a non-compete clause in his contract. 

 

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1573683/000104746913009713/a2216998zex-10_3.htm

 

Section 3 of the standard player contracts for the NFL:

 

 

 

Unless the Colts give him permission he won't play anywhere else. From what I gather this is a relatively easy one to enforce by going to court and courts act pretty quickly in cases like those from what I understand. 

 

Just guessing here, but I think Irsay would give him the ability to take a non-playing role with the XFL. It seems like Jim wants to help him achieve whatever his next goal may be, and if he were to want to take an opportunity to go work with his dad in a front office role at the XFL I honestly think Jim would give his blessing. 

 

Who knows, though? There’s lots of layers to this onion to peel back. 

[Old Colt]

17 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

The players seem excited to move on but they also seemed 100% behind lucks decision.

They really don't have a choice, have to follow the team line from CB.  The need to be politically correct in today's world.

[Turftoe]

A couple of responses on things discussed already:

 

- Someone mentioned Luck's demeanor at the podium Saturday evening, I thought it seemed really odd too.  Very awkward and rambling.  Overall he seemed very sullen yet acted perfectly fine on the sidelines during the game.  I don't know what to make of it.  Perhaps he is still in a "dark" or "fragile" state of mind?

 

- If he is dealing with mental/psych issues (as many people do), it could explain the vague explanations about his situation over the past weeks and months. Typically with pro athletes there's not a lot of privacy concerns about injuries, the public is told the nature and extent of the problem.  I can see that NOT happening with mental issues - the player would be much more private or secretive about letting that info out.

[lollygagger8]

Straight hypothesis and conjecture on my part: 

 

Maybe it was so hard to diagnose his ankle, calf, leg, whatever it was because Luck was still confused about whether he wanted to play or not? Idk either way, but it sure sounds like a mental issue. I'm guessing the baby on the way and wanting to help wife through pregnancy has a little something to do with it as well. 

 

But if it was mental, why not get help? Pagano and Grigson can go to a psychiatrist but Luck can't? Maybe he did, and it didn't work, I don't know. 

 

I realize you can't instill will into people but I wish you could. 

[coltsva]

4 hours ago, GusFring said:

I don't see Irsay letting Luck keep 24mil in bonus money if there is no injury. 

Someone mentioned the whole painkiller angle. If that is it, Irsay would understand very well and I believe would allow him to keep the money under those circumstances.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Turftoe said:

- Someone mentioned Luck's demeanor at the podium Saturday evening, I thought it seemed really odd too.  Very awkward and rambling.  Overall he seemed very sullen yet acted perfectly fine on the sidelines during the game.  I don't know what to make of it.  Perhaps he is still in a "dark" or "fragile" state of mind?

 

 

You mean the press conference where he announced a life-changing decision, a day before he intended to, in front of his family and teammates? Just a couple hours after he was booed off the field on which he had played for seven years, by fans he enjoyed playing in front of?

 

I thought his demeanor was consistent with the circumstances.

[Roger]

What does a helicopter pilot know about Luck or the Colts?

[Steamboat_Shaun]

9 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

How many concussions did he get? That would surprise me, especially at his age.

 

He only missed 1 game due to concussion, but it's probably not too farfetched to think he had others that weren't publicized.

[gspdx]

9 hours ago, Luck 4 president said:

Sounds like almost everyone is in agreement that his issues are more mental than physical. Could he possibly have CTE? It seems like people with CTE don’t act like themselves and have very abnormal decision making.

 

What's funny with this is that staying in the NFL is the abnormal decision.  With all we know about CTE at this point I question the sanity of anyone who wants to play this game professionally.

 

If Luck was concerned about CTE leaving the game would  be the only normal decision to make.

 

I for one will not try to decide why he did what he did or why it played out the way it did.  Being so concerned that he lied to us, or the front office lied, or he let his team mates down, or  anything else is our perception being forced on someone in a situation that most of us couldn't comprehend.  I can't imagine playing pro football and the dealing with both the physical and mental abuse. With that someone who has committed so much of their life to the game Luck deserves our compassion to the situation and what he has been dealing with.

 

[throwing BBZ]

16 hours ago, DougDew said:

I agree that people are reaching  a bit.  But its not like its without some merit.

 

If you look at his history, there has been a certain mystery around how serious his injuries have been and how long the rehab will be.  That strikes me as a guy who is conflicted between what he wants to do every day, and what he feels like he is supposed to do, be an NFL QB. 

 

Kind of like when you hate your job, but people are counting on you to do it, so you call in sick until your conscience gets to you.

 

That speaks to  the mental aspect of this, and how Luck called it mental exhaustion.  And how Irsay called it in 2017 as the problem being 4 inches between his ears.

 

I think its more than the injury/rehab cycle.  I think he's been conflicted for a while and has simply found the clarity and strength to finally say that he doesn't want the job anymore.

 

 

 

 Best post on this yet. I suppose because i agree wit it.
 This Phantom injury was a mask for his building up the courage to walk away.
  As much as i marveled at the punishment the old timers took and played on for 15 years, i do wonder why so many guys play beyond age 30 or so.
 Ending it with a body that isn't destroyed SHOULD Always be the #1 priority.
 That said, i see Andrew back on the field after a year or two off.
And it will be about the $$$$.
I'll predict he is a LA Charger the next go around, after Rivers retires.

[Luck 4 president]

2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Straight hypothesis and conjecture on my part: 

 

Maybe it was so hard to diagnose his ankle, calf, leg, whatever it was because Luck was still confused about whether he wanted to play or not? Idk either way, but it sure sounds like a mental issue. I'm guessing the baby on the way and wanting to help wife through pregnancy has a little something to do with it as well. 

 

But if it was mental, why not get help? Pagano and Grigson can go to a psychiatrist but Luck can't? Maybe he did, and it didn't work, I don't know. 

 

I realize you can't instill will into people but I wish you could. 

I’m sure he did seek mental help but there is no way they would publicize it. That would have blown up in the media.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Best post on this yet. I suppose because i agree wit it.
 This Pantom injury was a mask for his building up the courage to walk away.
  As much as i marveled at the punishment the old timers took and played on for 15 years, i do wonder why so many guys play beyond age 30 or so.
 Ending it with a body that isn't destroyed SHOULD Always be the #1 priority.
 That said, i see Andrew back on the field after a year or two off.
And it will be about the $$$$.
I'll predict he is a LA Charger the next go around, after Rivers retires.

Thanks.  I was in the middle of posting an update to what I theorize was happening since last season, and not so much prior years, so I'll attach it here:

 

I believe the notion that says Luck could walk away from the game at any time.  So he naturally has a lower tolerance for problems than other football players might, not to mention he is financially set.

 

I think the calf injury was a minor thing that he exaggerated to give himself time to think, something that he started to do last season or just at the end.  I think the Colts knew his mindset but chose not to force him on his mysterious lower leg pain, not wanting to embarrass their star player if everything worked out in the end.  Then by preseason game three they had to force his hand.

 

I think his immediate decision to walk away was brewing last season, when he wasn't even injured.

 

Some of us noted that he seemed less engaged during the KC playoff game, close to looking like he was mailing it in at times.  I wonder if he didn't look across the field and saw Mahomes performance and thought that any future road to the super bowl was going to involve a shoot out, where the entire season rests even more on his shoulders.  More of the center of attention (which goes against his personality).  Even more opportunity to get beat up.  He asks himself, who needs this, and finally follows his heart now that he has a family and a home life to center his life around.

 

The constant injury/rehab cycle concern was exaggerated, or something he told himself to validate his walking away.

 

Not blaming him or criticizing his character, but this immediate lower leg issue played a very small part in this decision, IMO.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I remember a story that was written last year after the KC loss. How he walked out of there with a smile on his face arm and arm with his wife. He kept talking about how fulfilling the season was. Makes you wonder if he just wanted to come back to prove he could still play and just didn’t want to play this year.

 

Something else stuck out to me. Reich said he wanted to name a starter for week 1 after the bears game. Well the press conference was supposed to be Sunday after that game. Makes you wonder if they gave him a deadline to make his decision.

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, GusFring said:

I don't see Irsay letting Luck keep 24mil in bonus money if there is no injury. 

I think Irsay does let him keep it if he feels even the slightest bit culpable in ending a young players promising career with his failure to act sooner.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

I remember a story that was written last year after the KC loss. How he walked out of there with a smile on his face arm and arm with his wife. He kept talking about how fulfilling the season was. Makes you wonder if he just wanted to come back to prove he could still play and just didn’t want to play this year.

 

Something else stuck out to me. Reich said he wanted to name a starter for week 1 after the bears game. Well the press conference was supposed to be Sunday after that game. Makes you wonder if they gave him a deadline to make his decision.

Yes.  Wanted to not go out because he had to.

[ColtStrong2013]

19 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

I'm not a mental health professional (and I'd guess that Rick Venturi isn't either), but I'm pretty certain that there's not such a thing in the DSM-5 as a "mental breakdown."

 

 

You are right... What he should have said was that he believes Luck to be suffering from Somatic Symptom Disorder, which is in the DSM-5, and is characterized by an extreme focus on physical symptoms such as pain or fatigue and that causes major emotional distress and problems functioning. The pain isn't necessarily the issue. The unhealthy focus and obsession with the pain/ rehab cycle is. 

 

I think that would fit the narrative, don't you? 

[Valpo2004]

19 hours ago, csmopar said:

They hold his rights for the next 3 years should he want to come back. 

 

Actually they hold his rights in perpetuity.  His contract essentially freezes where it is.  Even if he came back 5 years later (doubtful) the Colts would still have his rights.  

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Actually they hold his rights in perpetuity.  His contract essentially freezes where it is.  Even if he came back 5 years later (doubtful) the Colts would still have his rights.  

yep, I miss read the rule yesterday,  he has 3 seasons left on his contract, so yep, hes a Colt unless the Colts don't want him

"Just like anything else in the NFL, though, there is a "but" for this rule, too: if the player retires with time remaining on his contract, then chooses to come back into the league later, he is not a free agent. Contracts apply, in most cases, to accrued seasons, not calendar years. If the player doesn't play, he doesn't accrue a season. Therefore, his return to the field would put him back under the control of the same team, unless that team chooses to cut him. "

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2016/3/5/11158958/nfl-101-how-cuts-retirements-and-trades-affect-the-salary-cap