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Adam Vinatieri (Merge)

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15 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t think anyone is saying Adam doesn’t deserve to be criticized for his play today but as the poster above you said two things can be true at once and while Adam had an unacceptable game today others made costly mistakes as well and if you change any of those mistakes you change the out come of the game as well, so again it’s not as simple as looking at one guy and saying it’s all on him.  Very few things in football are and if the coaches did that then those other mistakes wouldn’t get addressed and they would continue to cost the team games all year. 

When a veteran has 3 seperate direct chances to score points, 1 of which would have won the game, and blowes chunks, that is a MAJOR problem. Why is it so difficult to accept the truth. If you asked Vinni if he lost the game what do you think he would say

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2 hours ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

So are you saying that one of those kicks made, we still lose

He didn’t even have to make the kicks. Just the extra point.

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Just now, FanFromtheWasteland said:

When a veteran has 3 seperate direct chances to score points, 1 of which would have won the game, and blowes chunks, that is a MAJOR problem. Why is it so difficult to accept the truth. If you asked Vinni if he lost the game what do you think he would say

I don’t think I am avoiding the truth when I said multiple times in this thread that his performance today was unacceptable.  You know what else is unacceptable?  The Chargers being something like 7 for 11 on third down today.  If that problem continues the Colts are going to have a bigger problem than Adam on their hands.  This isn’t as simple as saying it’s all one guys fault.  Yes Adam deserves his share of the blame but he’s far from the only one.  

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

He didn’t even have to make the kicks. Just the extra point.

If he makes the extra point they don’t go for two at the end of the game and it still goes into OT.

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I said this earlier in the game thread and I’ll say it here: Don’t dwell on the what-ifs. We could shout into the void for eternity about what-ifs for the last two years of Colts football alone. It’s not worth the time and negativity.

Having said that, yes AV struggled. But are we really going to let one lousy game serve as grounds to exile him like some seem to want? He played a poor game, so what? Peyton played poor games too and lost us some as well. And for those saying it started for AV back in KC, do you remember anyone who played well in KC? Luck sure didn’t, and most others didn’t either.

Give the man another week or two before we kick one of the best of all time to the curb, if not for principle than at least for what he’s done for us over the years. 

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1 hour ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

Nothing has changed in the 35 years the colts have been here.

 

We didn't lose that game because Peyton threw 6 ints.

 

We didn't lose that game because vanderjagt shanked that field goal

 

We didn't lose that game because vinni missed a PAT and 2 FG

 

Nothing but excuse after excuse after excuse

 

I really don't give a crap about a  participation trophy attitude

 

Are you saying it's solely Vinnys' fault the Colts TEAM lost today?  Because it's not.  If he makes all his kicks and the Colts win, is he solely responsible for the TEAM win?  No.

 

It's a TEAM game.  The offense could have scored TDs on every possession, but they didn't.  The defense could have held the Chargers to 0 points, but they didn't.  The TEAM lost today.  The offense didn't play as well as it should have, the defense didn't play as well as it should have, the special teams (obviously) didn't play as well as it should have, and the coaches didn't coach as well as they should have.

 

Despite all that, you have to admit that taking the Chargers to OT on the road is kind of a surprising and promising start to the season.  If our only real flaw is our kicker having a bad day, then we're in better shape than a lot of people expected.  :thmup:

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19 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Are you saying it's solely Vinnys' fault the Colts TEAM lost today?  Because it's not.  If he makes all his kicks and the Colts win, is he solely responsible for the TEAM win?  No.

 

It's a TEAM game.  The offense could have scored TDs on every possession, but they didn't.  The defense could have held the Chargers to 0 points, but they didn't.  The TEAM lost today.  The offense didn't play as well as it should have, the defense didn't play as well as it should have, the special teams (obviously) didn't play as well as it should have, and the coaches didn't coach as well as they should have.

 

Despite all that, you have to admit that taking the Chargers to OT on the road is kind of a surprising and promising start to the season.  If our only real flaw is our kicker having a bad day, then we're in better shape than a lot of people expected.  :thmup:

I have never understood the need for some fans that absolutely must point a finger at something or someone to direct blame. 

 

Here is the point in my world. We went on the road where we were the underdog, took the game to OT, almost won, against one of the most veteran QB's in the history of the NFL. There is no need to blame...only to see the bright future. 

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Really bad day after an absent training camp because of an injury at age 46. Very much worth monitoring the situation going forward. The thing with legends is that the math is not exactly the same as with regular players that have been with you for 2-3-4 years. With those you can anticipate and cut bait before it's too late. With legends you kind of have to let it play out and in most cases you have to cut bait after it's too late. It's just the price you pay for more than a decade of stable hall-of-fame-worthy performances. 

 

I'm good with this. Let him work through it for several more weeks. If it doesn't get better, then look for a solution elsewhere.  

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Ebron could have also just held onto the ball. Overall a handful of disappointing plays. Lots to work on in all three phases, and I would include coaching at well. 

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7 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Wow. All of you doomsday folks talking about how he should of retired before LAST season???????

 

I must have missed that thread?

 

Yeah we could have won this game had he made his kicks, but, it is a team game and a kickers mistakes are amplified by nature whereas a missed tackle/assignment isn't as noticeable.

 

Get a grip and step away from the cliff! 

 

So people are calling it how it is and you make out as if they are suicidal lol Vinny did awful and anyone with eyes can see that. If it happens much more he should be replaced.

 

Having said that, the Defence left much to be desired as well (minus the pass rush).

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On 9/8/2019 at 6:41 PM, Detectacon said:

I can’t say enough about what Vinny means to this organization. However, why is he still playing? It was obvious last year that he should have seriously considered hanging his cleats up. What he did (actually didn’t) do today was upsetting. Not just to me as a fan, but to his team. The team has been through a lot this month and they still showed true grit and have stayed in this game the entire way. Vinny let everyone down regardless of how this ends. 

 

On 9/8/2019 at 7:11 PM, FanFromtheWasteland said:

This loss is on him plain and simple.

I'm sorry when did a team sport like football suddenly become golf or tennis? No, this loss isn't entirely on Adam. SMH. 

On 9/8/2019 at 7:16 PM, Detectacon said:

He absoultely let everyone down today. He lost this game single-handily....IMHO. 

You make it sound like Adam V. should be taken out to pasture & literally put down. Prisoner of the moment syndrome I'm afraid. 

 

"Vinny let everyone down," "He lost the game singlehandedly." "This loss is on him." 

 

What like nobody else dropped a pass today? Look, I get it. This wasn't the outcome any of us wanted, but to make it sound like Adam alone sabotaged the final result today is beyond absurd. Would making all his field goals today have come in handy? Sure, but the man isn't a machine, he's human.

 

Adam V. has saved our caboose on so many occasions during games. Let's not crucify the man prematurely shall we...

 

It's never as bad as it initially looks. There are a lot of positives to lean your hat on despite this loss--A crucial turnover in the 2nd half, sacking Rivers more than once, running the ball well, & JB throwing the ball with precision & authority all game long. 

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I said during the 2018 pre season that we should have kept Badgley. That falls on Ballard and Irsay, who I believe wanted to see Vinny break that record with the Colts. Sentimentality is not a good thing when building a team. But that ship has sailed.

 

This pre season, Colts did not have a better option in camp. That Hedlund guy, or whatever his name was, did not look very good, so I get starting the season with VInny, and not cutting him loose after one dreadful performance.

 

One problem is, how does VInny "right the ship" if he's hurting and not able to kick much during the week. At 46 years old the body heals VERY slowly. Those of you who are that age or older know this all too well.

 

If this continues (I hope it won't but I believe it will) they need to start seriously looking at other options. To be clear, I'm not blaming Vinny alone for the loss, as there are plenty of areas that need to be cleaned up, and there were plenty of game changing moments, but he was a major part of this loss.

 

On to Tennessee!

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, LuckyHorseShoe§ said:

I said this earlier in the game thread and I’ll say it here: Don’t dwell on the what-ifs. We could shout into the void for eternity about what-ifs for the last two years of Colts football alone. It’s not worth the time and negativity.

Having said that, yes AV struggled. But are we really going to let one lousy game serve as grounds to exile him like some seem to want? He played a poor game, so what? Peyton played poor games too and lost us some as well. And for those saying it started for AV back in KC, do you remember anyone who played well in KC? Luck sure didn’t, and most others didn’t either.

Give the man another week or two before we kick one of the best of all time to the curb, if not for principle than at least for what he’s done for us over the years. 

 

A) It hasn’t just been one bad game.  His previous game was bad, too.  And even prior to that, many of the kicks he did make were marginally struck.

 

B) Two of the kicks he missed yesterday were chip shots.

 

C) If the guy we’re talking about was named Sam Jones, it wouldn’t be a debate.  It shouldn’t be just because he’s who he is.

 

D) Vinny himself has long said that he’ll continue kicking as long as he’s still good at it.  So if he’s not had thoughts that maybe that day has come, he should be.

 

What matters in this game is a player’s effectiveness right now....for the next game...for the upcoming season.  What you’ve done up to this point, for however long you’ve done it, can only get you so far.

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“(Vinatieri) is the one guy I’m not worried about.  We have the greatest kicker of all-time.” — Frank Reich

 

This is a troubling comment from Coach Reich.  You know, Morten Andersen is in the Hall of Fame.  Why not bring him out of retirement to kick?  Why not put Robert Mathis on the DLine to help our pass rush?

 

Simple, because they can’t do today what they used to do very well.

 

Just because Adam has long been able to reliably kick a ball through the uprights doesn’t mean he still can be relied on.  We all may hope he can.  But hope isn’t a substitute for a sound plan.

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6 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

“(Vinatieri) is the one guy I’m not worried about.  We have the greatest kicker of all-time.” — Frank Reich

 

This is a troubling comment from Coach Reich.  You know, Morten Andersen is in the Hall of Fame.  Why not bring him out of retirement to kick?  Why not put Robert Mathis on the DLine to help our pass rush?

 

Simple, because they can’t do today what they used to do very well.

 

Just because Adam has long been able to reliably kick a ball through the uprights doesn’t mean he still can be relied on.  We all may hope he can.  But hope isn’t a substitute for a sound plan.

Reich’s comment doesn’t concern me at all. It’s what he needs to say right now. He is not going to call out a player no matter how he really feels, nor would I expect or want him too. It serves no purpose to do so. 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, King Colt said:

The coin flip cost them the game.

I hate the overtime rules. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

“(Vinatieri) is the one guy I’m not worried about.  We have the greatest kicker of all-time.” — Frank Reich

 

This is a troubling comment from Coach Reich.  You know, Morten Andersen is in the Hall of Fame.  Why not bring him out of retirement to kick?  Why not put Robert Mathis on the DLine to help our pass rush?

 

Simple, because they can’t do today what they used to do very well.

 

Just because Adam has long been able to reliably kick a ball through the uprights doesn’t mean he still can be relied on.  We all may hope he can.  But hope isn’t a substitute for a sound plan.

Yes.  A lot of posters want to shrug it off and give him a pass.  But he is 46 and he missed them bad.  That loss could probably cost us when it comes to seeding and a home playoff game.  Now Tenn. and this next game is important as well.  It's early and everyone wants to be patient.  I understand that.  But it certainly is time to have a plan B ready to go.  Here's hoping they at least sign Hedland to the practice squad and maybe even try out some more kickers this week. 

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Vinatieri didn't look good yesterday, and I have a feeling that he might be retiring sooner than expected. Maybe he'll rebound, and I'll be wrong. I would give him a few more weeks, and if things don't work out it could be time to move on. 

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13 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

That was in a different stadium and city.

 

 

Ha... your right.

 

I'm getting old. 

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Vinateri shanked a kick against the Chief's in the playoffs last year

and follows that up with 3 shanks in the season opener.

 

If this keeps up then you can bet Ballard will have a conga line of

kickers  coming in for tryouts. The kicker has one job! One f-g job!

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As others have said, you don't cut him after one game. 

 

Having said that, we should be on the lookout for a backup, or replacement.

 

Love Vinny, but the time is near or has come. 

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Not able to read every post here, but as I was driving and listening to the game yesterday, my 13 year old said that AV should retire...he's too old.  Then he said, would the Colts cut him?

 

My answer was, they won't cut him and that AV is man enough to step away when he knows it's time.  He won't try and continue playing if he knows he needs to step aside.

 

So, this will play out over the next few weeks.  He either gets back in the groove and this was just a "bad game" or he will struggle again and then say good bye.

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15 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Wow. All of you doomsday folks talking about how he should of retired before LAST season???????

 

I must have missed that thread?

 

Yeah we could have won this game had he made his kicks, but, it is a team game and a kickers mistakes are amplified by nature whereas a missed tackle/assignment isn't as noticeable.

 

Get a grip and step away from the cliff! 

I will say Autry cost us 4 points because of a stupid penalty on a fig 

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3 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

“(Vinatieri) is the one guy I’m not worried about.  We have the greatest kicker of all-time.” — Frank Reich

 

This is a troubling comment from Coach Reich.  You know, Morten Andersen is in the Hall of Fame.  Why not bring him out of retirement to kick?  Why not put Robert Mathis on the DLine to help our pass rush?

 

Simple, because they can’t do today what they used to do very well.

 

Just because Adam has long been able to reliably kick a ball through the uprights doesn’t mean he still can be relied on.  We all may hope he can.  But hope isn’t a substitute for a sound plan.

Jesus man Reich isn’t delusional , he’s just saying that to calm down the fan base and show his kicker that he still believes in him. Reich isn’t blind, he and Ballard will get a new kicker when they think it’s time. Massive overreaction to a normal statement

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3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Yes.  A lot of posters want to shrug it off and give him a pass.  But he is 46 and he missed them bad.  That loss could probably cost us when it comes to seeding and a home playoff game.  Now Tenn. and this next game is important as well.  It's early and everyone wants to be patient.  I understand that.  But it certainly is time to have a plan B ready to go.  Here's hoping they at least sign Hedland to the practice squad and maybe even try out some more kickers this week. 

Dude give him one more week at least. We have no idea what could happen, don’t kick one of the greatest Colts to the curb because he had a lousy day. How many times did Luck or Manning have a couple of lousy games? Did we ever talk about taking them behind the woodshed? You guys are seriously nuts, you’re talking about AV like he’s a f*cking dog and we need to put him down Old Yeller style. If AV is not ok, he will retire, knee jerk reactions here won’t solve anything.

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3 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

A) It hasn’t just been one bad game.  His previous game was bad, too.  And even prior to that, many of the kicks he did make were marginally struck.

 

B) Two of the kicks he missed yesterday were chip shots.

 

C) If the guy we’re talking about was named Sam Jones, it wouldn’t be a debate.  It shouldn’t be just because he’s who he is.

 

D) Vinny himself has long said that he’ll continue kicking as long as he’s still good at it.  So if he’s not had thoughts that maybe that day has come, he should be.

 

What matters in this game is a player’s effectiveness right now....for the next game...for the upcoming season.  What you’ve done up to this point, for however long you’ve done it, can only get you so far.

And if AV thinks he’s done, AV will make that choice. Even if he’s been shaky the last year or so, who do we have lined up right now that’s better than him? You said his kicks last year were shaky, but other than two misses in a playoff game where no one on the Colts played well, he still made them right? That’s more than you can say for most of the other kickers we could get.

Also, if we’re going by your philosophy of past player success means nothing, then I guess we should’ve kicked Luck off the team after he played like crap in KC. It’s not even week two and you guys are talking about a massive roster move because a guy had a lousy day. Darius Leonard didn’t play all that great yesterday, should we put him out to pasture? Everything on this forum is just total knee jerk reactions, with no thought. Maybe we should let Ballard Reich and AV handle this one. You have no idea if he could be back to normal next week

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another game like that and they need to start looking at kickers.  he was shaky towards the end of last year too, and then had an injury this summer

 

it might be time...

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3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

 A lot of posters want to shrug it off and give him a pass.  But he is 46 and he missed them bad.  

 

Like who?

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Is it possible the soccer stadium has different dynamics with wind or anything that could of threw him off.

 

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3 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

“(Vinatieri) is the one guy I’m not worried about.  We have the greatest kicker of all-time.” — Frank Reich

 

This is a troubling comment from Coach Reich.  You know, Morten Andersen is in the Hall of Fame.  Why not bring him out of retirement to kick?  Why not put Robert Mathis on the DLine to help our pass rush?

 

Simple, because they can’t do today what they used to do very well.

 

Just because Adam has long been able to reliably kick a ball through the uprights doesn’t mean he still can be relied on.  We all may hope he can.  But hope isn’t a substitute for a sound plan.

 

 

I love Vinny, but I didn't really feel very comfortable with any of his kicks last year either.  He made a lot of them but many weren't pretty; he seems to have more variance on placement than the younger kickers.  Does anyone feel comfortable when he kicks longer than 50 yards?

 

I will be stunned if he plays for us past this season, unless he is near perfect from here on out.  Is he trying to beat Mort Anderson's "Most games played" record?  I can't get behind that at the expense of the team.

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3 hours ago, coltsva said:

Reich’s comment doesn’t concern me at all. It’s what he needs to say right now. He is not going to call out a player no matter how he really feels, nor would I expect or want him too. It serves no purpose to do so. 

 

'Yeah, Vinny was awful for us today. As a coach, I have to be able to trust that our kicker is going to do his job when I call his number. I'm losing that trust after today. He really let us down, and I think we're going to open up the competition at his spot. He's a HOFer, but we can't let him cost us games if he's not able to perform anymore. And that's fine, he's 46, it might just be Father Time catching up with him. He's the GOAT, but we need to make sure our kicker can come through when we send him out there.' 

 

Is that what Reich was supposed to say? Is there any chance those words would ever come out of his mouth, privately or publicly? I think not...

 

He said the right thing. Doesn't mean the team won't be closely monitoring the situation with AV. 

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Just now, Chloe6124 said:

Is it possible the soccer stadium has different dynamics with wind or anything that could of threw him off.

 

 

There was no wind. A couple of light breezes at times, but nothing that affected AV's kicking. It was a perfect day for kicking. He just blew three kicks, there's no explanation for it.

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1 minute ago, bhougland said:

Does anyone feel comfortable when he kicks longer than 50 yards?

 

Over the last five years, he's 23-29 from 50+, including some game winners from that distance. I'd put that record up against any kicker in the league, outside of the guy in Baltimore.

 

Quote

I will be stunned if he plays for us past this season, unless he is near perfect from here on out.  Is he trying to beat Mort Anderson's "Most games played" record?  I can't get behind that at the expense of the team.

 

Thing is, we've said this about him before, after a bad game. This is usually the start of a hot streak for him. Might not work out that way this time, but everyone seems so eager to stick a fork in him, which is wild to me.

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We have to trust Ballard, Reich and Vinny. YES Vinny cost us 6 points in a game that went to overtime. He should be monitored closely to see if something is physically wrong with him. Hope he plays like he can next week in Tennessee

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20 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Over the last five years, he's 23-29 from 50+, including some game winners from that distance. I'd put that record up against any kicker in the league, outside of the guy in Baltimore.

 

 

Thing is, we've said this about him before, after a bad game. This is usually the start of a hot streak for him. Might not work out that way this time, but everyone seems so eager to stick a fork in him, which is wild to me.

 

Had a bad game in the playoffs against KC too.  Not that it cost us the game at all, but he wasn't good. 

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How in the world have y'all managed a six page thread over a kicker? The Colts allowed the chargers to convert 7-11 third downs, including multiple third and longs.

 

Our defense couldn't contain a backup running back.

 

Eric Ebron couldn't make a TD grab he made all of last season.

 

Our secondary continues to look like swiss cheese playing a Tampa-2.

 

Did the GOAT have an awful game yesterday? Yes, absolutely, and I don't think anyone is denying that. You're insane if you think we solely lost the game yesterday on his leg.

 

Adam has said more than once he'll only play until he feels like he can't help a team win. He's not playing for anything, he doesn't have an ego, and he'd be on another team RIGHT NOW if the Colts didn't re-sign him. This whole thread is silly.

 

Did yesterday suck? Absolutely, but I'm quite pleased with how the team played overall. We have a VERY tough schedule this year, so to play like we did yesterday IN LA is more than I ever could have hoped for. Go Colts

 

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