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Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)


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The strangest thing to me is Tom Brady's happy go lucky demeanor. These are some serious allegations leveled against you Tommy. Why aren't you more ticked off? Why are you letting your father & your attorney do the heavy lifting? If someone was accusing me of intentionally disrespecting the integrity of the game that made me a wealthy man & household name across the globe, I'd be screaming from the rooftops "I didn't do this, hook me up to a lie detector right now." The public isn't interested in legal jargon. They want an answer from you own mouth right now darn it. 

 

It's like working at a bank where money is missing & video cameras confirm you were the only 1 on duty & you locked the vault that night. Are you gonna smile, say I have no idea what happened, & use your lawyer as your primary mouthpiece? Ah no, I'm going to say "I'm a dedicated employee. I have nothing to hide. What do you need from me to clear this matter up? Feel free to search my house without a warrant if you want. I have nothing to run away from or be ashamed of at all."

Preach it, SW1! Preach it!

:)

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Nice personal shot there ... it has been shocking to the Pats fans some of the posts by Colts fans as Dynasty pointed out that remain and not be removed. For sure the saddest point on these boards since the 2 years I have been here ...

 

There was really no personal shot there.  It is commentary on behavior that is well documented and encountered by nearly every member here recently. 

 

"Why the cheap shot then? At least have the decency to PM me. I had no idea you had any issue with my stances on this topic since last week ..."

 

You said something similar to me after I threw up my hands trying to deal with your 'takes'. you don't listen to others, you just push and shove your agenda.  and yes, you do indeed have an agenda.

 

 

And if you have issues with others post(s), use the report button like others have.  It will get seen quicker and reviewed. Stop commenting about it publicly. And consider your own contribution to the situation you term as "For sure the saddest point on these boards since the 2 years I have been here ..."  Your fingerprints are all over the joint.  If you want the place to be better, you'll have to own your part in it and make changes in helping restore a place of discussion and debate without tension and distrust.

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Love this.  

 

I chose to walk away 4 days ago because I was finding myself being sucked into arguments and stooping to levels that didn't make me feel too good about myself.  

 

It's been a wild week in the NFL, the media, social media and so on.  Emotions seem to be on overload with just about everyone.

 

But you are correct.  Facts are stubborn things and you can't change facts no matter how much you wish it.

 

 

Welcome back Gramz. Now that the punishments have been handed out there is all kinds of lunacy developing. It's really entertaining.

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A friend of mine just sent me this. Very funny.

 

 

 

Thats the greatest thing I have seen in a long long time. I swear that man's reaction is kinda like all of us too.

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All he is doing is whatever he can to protect his client (Brady), He is going to say whatever it takes, Grasp at any little thread  he can, This shouldn't really come as any surprise, Agents will say what it takes to protect there client because in doing so the agent continues to get money

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The other thing that bothers me is how some reporters are implying that a 4 time SB Champion should somehow be treated more leniently than say a say an NFL QB with no shiny jewelry on his hand. Excuse me? 

 

I might give a man of his caliber [what Brady has accomplished in this league] the benefit of the doubt initially until he refuses to turn over his phone thru his attorney's law firm. That's a H-U-G-E red flag to me.

 

There are no special rules for HOF QBs & then everybody else. Your lawyer is there to protect you & verify that no sensitive materials outside this investigation.

 

We can do this the easy way or the hard way  & if you give me [ [NFL investigators]  additional work; we will nail your behind to the wall Mr. Brady. You turn over what the league asks for & be completely forthcoming & the punishment phase will be minimal, but if you act defiant & not comply with us & the league will sting you pretty good. 

 

I just don't like the idea of preferential treatment. I don't give a crap how many rings you have. You play ball & the whole experience is a gentle one; You play hardball & you will feel like a porcupine took advantage of you. The ball is & always was in Brady's court. He determines how he is treated & right now he's created his own nightmare as I see it. 

 

You are on a roll lately Southwest.

 

I too am sick of the entitled treatment Brady is getting at times or the entitled treatment the Pats organization and fans thinks he DESERVES.

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The strangest thing to me is Tom Brady's happy go lucky demeanor. These are some serious allegations leveled against you Tommy. Why aren't you more ticked off? Why are you letting your father & your attorney do the heavy lifting? If someone was accusing me of intentionally disrespecting the integrity of the game that made me a wealthy man & household name across the globe, I'd be screaming from the rooftops "I didn't do this, hook me up to a lie detector right now." The public isn't interested in legal jargon. They want an answer from you own mouth right now darn it. 

 

 

That has been my feeling too, SW1.  Very strange, and made me even more suspicious of his guilt.

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You just reminded me of something very important, Superman! I thank you for it.

I will leave this thread (it's time) with a quote that has been burned in my mind since I first learned of it many years ago. And in my mind, settles the entire argument :

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

John Adams, 2nd President of the United States

Hey nice John Adams quote,

btw wasn't he a PATRIOT!!!!

--Insert drum roll--

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The strangest thing to me is Tom Brady's happy go lucky demeanor. These are some serious allegations leveled against you Tommy. Why aren't you more ticked off?

 

One of the NFL news ladies made a good point. When Wells was attacked by Yee (and others) over the validity of his independence and impartiality, Wells immediately stood up for himself and confronted the allegations. In contrast, when Tom Brady was attacked, he did the exact opposite by keeping silent and smiling, and even when he did meet the public at Salem, he continued to say nothing and smile.

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The Patriots got 17 points while cheating in the first half , Half the game is over now they set back realizing that the Colts offense would be throwing , Why because our run game sucked .

 

Anotherwards they cheated to get the lead . The second half did'nt matter IMO the game was never fair from the start & that is the biggest problem .

 

Basicly the Colts got screwed the first half by the NFL & the Patriots . 

 

Both teams must in the future use the same balls .

 

To be fair, the Wells report taught me-

 

A. There's a lot of little boys crying wolf to the League all the time.  Real requests with merit are squashed in a sea of noise.  Much like the few excellent posts in this thread are mired in a sea of misinformed bickering.

 

B. League told Walt Anderson to make sure all balls were in spec.  Nothing more.  He says he did.  He expected they would remain that way all the way out to the field.

 

C. NFL execs in the stands (actually luxury suites) expected balls would be in spec and would remain that way all game.

 

That's how they handled Grigson's request.  But neither Colts nor the Patriots were informed the NFL and operations arm of the NFL did this.  So the McNally, Jastremski, Brady plan was not called off, and then McNally stole the balls from the Ref's locker room to alter them.  The Colts, rest of the Pats, and League Execs in the stands still have no reason to believe anything wrong.  Walt Anderson finds McNally right before kickoff, is thankful they don't have to use the backup balls. Still, nobody is tipped off that the balls are now altered and illegal. Nobody but McNally.  So why would Anderson want to re-test them  No suspicion!  If there were, he would order re-test or backups to be used. That is his job.  But nothing pointed to them being illegal, so the game goes on.

 

Seeing this timeline, I cannot be mad at the league for us having to play with illegal balls.  I can and am mad at the league for the minimalistic method they used above to 'address' Grigson's request.  They should have had Walt Anderson log every balls pressure, and mark them with his mark and number in order.  And then mention it is imperative they remain under strict visual security control until they were delivered to each sideline on the field, out in the open. They did not and that was the fail.

 

When D'Qwell Jackson picked off Brady, our equipment manger once again found the ball was soft.  And Brady has a worried look on his face in retrospect after the pick  Highlight is still located here-

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015011801/2014/POST20/colts@patriots#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000460400&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

 

Grigson calls up to the league Excec's at the game and says they have another deflated Patriots ball.  That was when the League realized their failure to prevent the Issue, and decided to have the Alternate Ref crew measure (and re-inflate as necessary) the footballs at halftime.  Then the leak!  Then, I remember clearly, the NFL stating they are investigating and should wrap up in 3 days or so.  That is when McNally was interviewed 3 times. That night, next day twice.  At some point the NFL realizes they need independent team to investigate, and that was when Wells was called in, again (BullyGate investigator too).

 

I got ruffled when I hear Pats and their legion of sycophants in the media and fanbase croning that McNally was already interviewed 4 times.  Well, the first 3 were NFL, not Wells team, and right at and after the game.  Wells got to interview McNally one time later.  Once additional information was found (especially Text messages and use of Deflator name last May), He wanted a follow up visit.  He was willing to travel to McNally and interview him at noon.  Patriots not only refused, but refused to even let McNally know Wells wanted a second follow up visit.  Yes, it is a second visit for Wells team.  And was refused. Thus a ticked off investigating team.

 

Now we are where we are.  So I have issues with the NFL in how they handled Grigs request too.  But also realize, they have to sift through all kinds of Bull Chip noise.  The NFL must relax the PSI rule, or tighten the rules and the security  on the pre-game ball ritual.  Meaning, NFL hires equipment handlers, and a security guard to partner with them.  and pre-game logging of PSI, and with league approved and issued pumps/gauges.  There's no other way.

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Its only been a rule 8 years because Tom Brady & Peyton Manning wanted  , While Peyton Manning would never cheat the other guy surely does why not just make it a level playing field its a stupid rule .

 

It works until the 10 minutes before the game part of the protocol.  And if teams were on the up and up, would always work. However... the issue here is the league let the home team have a ball handler take the balls down to the field.  Not supposed to be before 10 minutes to kickoff, and must be escorted.  But over time people get lax maintaining protocols.  The league will have to remove team personnel participation in ball handling. Once the teams have submitted their prepared game balls to the REF's 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game, the Ref will check and log pressure and determine if a ball is playable and is marked.  The gauges and pump will be league supplied. NFL security and ball handler guard and deliver them to each just before kickoff.  No team allowed near them. Then NFL hired ball handlers on the sidelines puts ball(s) to refs during the game. No team interaction allowed anymore.  I expect nothing less from the competition committee this year.

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Side note: I'm 100% on board with being "in cahoots" in a general sense.

I'm feeling rather conspiritorish myself. Perhaps it was we fans and our robust honest nature that inspired Sir Ryan to warn the Crown against the infidels......

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All anyone had to do was watch Brady hem and haw when asked questions in various interviews to know he was guilty.  An innocent guy with his entire reputation and a cheater vs innocent would have said, without hesitation "I had nothing to do with this, I did not know about anything relating to this and there is no scenario by which I could be connected to any balls being under inflated because after my long career, and not being a *, I can tell if a ball is under inflated or not.  


 


NE apologists have a long reputation of denying wrongs done by their team/players.  I recall some even denied the reports about Aaron Hernandez... Bottom line, just because your coach and your star QB and many coaches and staffers at various levels have been involved in cheating or knowledgeable without reporting it (remember, spy gate was known by MANY Patriots personnel) with all that history (and a murderer of all things) none of it reflects on the fan base.  To take it so personally suggests some life priorities may be a bit out of whack OR your life is amazingly without any other important goings on. Relax. 


 


I thought Brady got off so easy it shocked me.  I was not surprised by the first round pick, but was surprised by the 4th round pick on top of it.  The 1 million bucks is meaningless to a billionaire owner and ironically, they not only SAVE 800K all together after the fine by not having to pay Brady, but they also get a valuable chance to test out their back-up to see if he really is the heir apparent or if they'll need to keep looking.  On top of that, should they feel Tom has 3 or more years left (he says he has a decade left) they may be able to trade their back up should he play well for a 1st round pick better than the one they lost.  Meanwhile, we may learn what some have questioned as to whether Brady is a system QB or Belichick actually is lucky to have Tom, or a mix of both.  If Cassel went 11-5 at his talent level, the Pats back up might just go 4-0 or 3-1.  


 


The fumble numbers since 2006 suggest a possible correlation of long term under inflated balls.  Doesn't prove it nor did they get punished for it, but it's not a stretch to believe a lot of the teams success has come from a variety of rule bending, breaking and intentional cheating.  Once a cheater always a cheater.   


 


Brady should have gotten at least 8 games or the entire season as many EX NFL players, coaches and execs have suggest in the media.  Brady may not even end up with 4 games after the appeal.  It wouldn't shock me for any end result but I still think 4 games was too little.  After all, what level of coincidence would have to occur for the Colts to point out they might be deflating the balls if it had never before happened.  And if it HAD happened on other occasions, then we'd be looking at a second, third, fourth, fifth etc. offense and he'd deserve to be out of the league.  Perhaps something on his phone would have exposed that. Like Hilary Clinton's server, we'll never know.  


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Good heavens ... are you still trying to compare ball pressure to PEDs?

 

I would argue it's worse. It's a clear advantage with zero disadvantage. Whereas in football at least, it's more likely to end in your own injury rather than much if any at all improvement on the field. At least with PED's, there's a negative.

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I'm feeling rather conspiritorish myself. Perhaps it was we fans and our robust honest nature that inspired Sir Ryan to warn the Crown against the infidels......

It was me who rode all the way down to 56th street screaming "their balls are deflated! Their balls are deflated!"

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The strangest thing to me is Tom Brady's happy go lucky demeanor. These are some serious allegations leveled against you Tommy. Why aren't you more ticked off? Why are you letting your father & your attorney do the heavy lifting? If someone was accusing me of intentionally disrespecting the integrity of the game that made me a wealthy man & household name across the globe, I'd be screaming from the rooftops "I didn't do this, hook me up to a lie detector right now." The public isn't interested in legal jargon. They want an answer from you own mouth right now darn it. 

 

It's like working at a bank where money is missing & video cameras confirm you were the only 1 on duty & you locked the vault that night. Are you gonna smile, say I have no idea what happened, & use your lawyer as your primary mouthpiece? Ah no, I'm going to say "I'm a dedicated employee. I have nothing to hide. What do you need from me to clear this matter up? Feel free to search my house without a warrant if you want. I have nothing to run away from or be ashamed of at all." 

The one line that got me was when Brady said what's the big deal? This is not Isis and no one got killed. He said that with a big smile on his face like it was a joke. That has to be the most arrogant comment under those circumstances I have heard in a long time. (and stupid I must say)

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Agreed. But it sounds like you guys are trying to make a case like 'oh there go the Patriots again, defending murderers and saying it's all good!'

 

No way. His actions in no way reflect the uniform he happened to be wearing on Sunday.

Agree, Hernandez had a level of problems that could not have been foreseen.  Who even imagines what that guy did?  Deeply disturbing.

 

People bringing him up in this thread and calling the Patriots murderers are being inflammatory.  That needs to stop

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To be fair, the Wells report taught me-

 

Edited for tidyness

 

I just wanted to congratulate you on one of the best posts in this whole mess of a topic. It was constructed, informative and without any axe grinding in it. 

 

Sure we all have bias, but you don't have to throw common sense and reason out the window just because you're a fan. 

 

I guess that's why I prefer to be a "Supporter" rather than a "Fan" :D

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I have said since the beginning that it is clear...lets say more probably than not....that something funny is going on. My criticism has always been that Brady's involvement and therefor his guilt was not proven and all based on assumptions. My criticism has always been the reaction of many who think we are *s for having the audacity to question the assumptions that were made. And my criticism stemming from that is now the punishment. I don't like the way the whole situation went down and I dont think I'm crazy for saying that. I think the punishment was ridiculous...that may change if something is proven...but at the moment I think the NFL is listening to the noise instead of the report and the inconsistencies that they have shown is troubling me.

 

I have not changed that perspective since day one. It's gotten crazy around here and as a member for over a decade here I've never seen it this bad.

Perspective.  I've seen it far worse than this

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To anyone who believes that two lowly equipment managers are going to alter the condition of their organizations Star QB's footballs before the AFC Championship game and after the inspection of the League Officials without the knowledge of said Star QB, I have a gold mine in Ecuador that I would like to sell you. I just don’t have the time to work it anymore but it will make you Millions

Would you consider trading your gold mind for my ocean front property here in Indiana? 

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When D'Qwell Jackson picked off Brady, our equipment manger once again found the ball was soft.  And Brady has a worried look on his face in retrospect after the pick  Highlight is still located here-

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015011801/2014/POST20/colts@patriots#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000460400&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

 

Grigson calls up to the league Excec's at the game and says they have another deflated Patriots ball.  

 

 

 

You left out the part that the intercepted ball was not deflated and by all 3 measurements was in the exact range that it should have been according to Exponent.

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Love this.  

 

I chose to walk away 4 days ago because I was finding myself being sucked into arguments and stooping to levels that didn't make me feel too good about myself.  

 

It's been a wild week in the NFL, the media, social media and so on.  Emotions seem to be on overload with just about everyone.

 

But you are correct.  Facts are stubborn things and you can't change facts no matter how much you wish it.

Good to see you back. I know it's very hard not to let some of this nonsense get to you. But just the same, welcome back.

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It works until the 10 minutes before the game part of the protocol.  And if teams were on the up and up, would always work. However... the issue here is the league let the home team have a ball handler take the balls down to the field.  Not supposed to be before 10 minutes to kickoff, and must be escorted.  But over time people get lax maintaining protocols.  The league will have to remove team personnel participation in ball handling. Once the teams have submitted their prepared game balls to the REF's 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game, the Ref will check and log pressure and determine if a ball is playable and is marked.  The gauges and pump will be league supplied. NFL security and ball handler guard and deliver them to each just before kickoff.  No team allowed near them. Then NFL hired ball handlers on the sidelines puts ball(s) to refs during the game. No team interaction allowed anymore.  I expect nothing less from the competition committee this year.

I was thinking the same thing. The NFL has to have better control over the footballs. I really didn't know exactly what the protocol was. It still find it strange that there was a problem with the timing of the footballs before the start of the Colts-Patriot game and wasn't addressed at that time.

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Love this.  

 

I chose to walk away 4 days ago because I was finding myself being sucked into arguments and stooping to levels that didn't make me feel too good about myself.  

 

It's been a wild week in the NFL, the media, social media and so on.  Emotions seem to be on overload with just about everyone.

 

But you are correct.  Facts are stubborn things and you can't change facts no matter how much you wish it.

Yay!  Gramz is back!  Not gonna lie, was a little sad when I saw you left, or rather, the reason you left.  Glad you came back.

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All anyone had to do was watch Brady hem and haw when asked questions in various interviews to know he was guilty.  An innocent guy with his entire reputation and a cheater vs innocent would have said, without hesitation "I had nothing to do with this, I did not know about anything relating to this and there is no scenario by which I could be connected to any balls being under inflated because after my long career, and not being a *, I can tell if a ball is under inflated or not.  

 

NE apologists have a long reputation of denying wrongs done by their team/players.  I recall some even denied the reports about Aaron Hernandez... Bottom line, just because your coach and your star QB and many coaches and staffers at various levels have been involved in cheating or knowledgeable without reporting it (remember, spy gate was known by MANY Patriots personnel) with all that history (and a murderer of all things) none of it reflects on the fan base.  To take it so personally suggests some life priorities may be a bit out of whack OR your life is amazingly without any other important goings on. Relax. 

 

I thought Brady got off so easy it shocked me.  I was not surprised by the first round pick, but was surprised by the 4th round pick on top of it.  The 1 million bucks is meaningless to a billionaire owner and ironically, they not only SAVE 800K all together after the fine by not having to pay Brady, but they also get a valuable chance to test out their back-up to see if he really is the heir apparent or if they'll need to keep looking.  On top of that, should they feel Tom has 3 or more years left (he says he has a decade left) they may be able to trade their back up should he play well for a 1st round pick better than the one they lost.  Meanwhile, we may learn what some have questioned as to whether Brady is a system QB or Belichick actually is lucky to have Tom, or a mix of both.  If Cassel went 11-5 at his talent level, the Pats back up might just go 4-0 or 3-1.  

 

The fumble numbers since 2006 suggest a possible correlation of long term under inflated balls.  Doesn't prove it nor did they get punished for it, but it's not a stretch to believe a lot of the teams success has come from a variety of rule bending, breaking and intentional cheating.  Once a cheater always a cheater.   

 

Brady should have gotten at least 8 games or the entire season as many EX NFL players, coaches and execs have suggest in the media.  Brady may not even end up with 4 games after the appeal.  It wouldn't shock me for any end result but I still think 4 games was too little.  After all, what level of coincidence would have to occur for the Colts to point out they might be deflating the balls if it had never before happened.  And if it HAD happened on other occasions, then we'd be looking at a second, third, fourth, fifth etc. offense and he'd deserve to be out of the league.  Perhaps something on his phone would have exposed that. Like Hilary Clinton's server, we'll never know.  

 

Your comment went too far. Bringing Hernandez and Hilary Clinton into the discussion is too much. No one including the Patriots could have guessed about Hernandez and they did cut him immediately. Bringing politics into the forum is also a no no. I understand your point but you just got carried away.

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 Also means this history that the Pats had of deflating is total baloney.

 

Oh really? 

 

150126_SN_chart01.jpg.CROP.original-orig

 

150126_SN_chart02.jpg.CROP.original-orig

 

The key takeaway is deadly obvious: Prior to 2007 the Patriots were right in line with the league averages across the other non dome teams. When you look team by team, they literally are in the middle of the pack for most seasons. But starting in 2007, all similarities totally vanish.

 

What's also funny/sad is the individual players that left the Patriots, actually had drastically worse fumble rates when playing for other teams. 

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I think it's funny that they are claiming that the league and the colts did a sting operation to catch them.  

 

So even if true, why is that a bad thing that the league and the colts got together to catch you??  You where caught cheating!!!

 

That's like someone who gets caught selling drugs to a cop running into court complaining. . . "It's not my fault it was a sting operation!!!  Arrest the cops!"  That's ridiculous.

 

It was hardly like they where being entrapped to deflate footballs.  

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Thought the penalty was a tad extreme. I guess the gist is don't act like bags when you get caught cheating.....even if it is minor.

The above has prob been stated, but I wasn't reading through 20 pages.

I thought it should have been 6-8 games, and Billy Boy should have gotten at least 4.

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I really dislike threads where I could give all 20 likes for the day.  Four things I have liked:

 

  • Gramz is back!!!  YAY!!
  • The mods have told it "like it is" and reiterated the rules.  LIKE!!!
  • Radiogirl tells it like it is a lot better than I do :)
  • I have stayed pretty much out of it.

I will need to come back and like more of these awesome comments by the mods and my other friends and Colt fans.  Great job!! :coltshelmet:  :coltshelmet:  :coltslogo:  :coltslogo:  :colts:  :colts:  :coltsfb:  :coltsfb: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Love this.  

 

I chose to walk away 4 days ago because I was finding myself being sucked into arguments and stooping to levels that didn't make me feel too good about myself.  

 

It's been a wild week in the NFL, the media, social media and so on.  Emotions seem to be on overload with just about everyone.

 

But you are correct.  Facts are stubborn things and you can't change facts no matter how much you wish it.

Welcome Back

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lol that dudes laugh is so contagious. I don't think that's what he is really talking about, and I don't care. Too funny

 

the guy's an unemployed Spannish cook, his artist name is Risitas (whinnying lough). He is talking about he was appointed by doing the wash ups, and he took all the cutlery to the beach and waited for tide to clean them (obviously he wanted save his energies) but sea wiped away everything.

 

This video is widely used in Hungary for fake subtitles, especially roasting soccer teams and Team Hungary when fails...

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