Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Why the cheap shot then? At least have the decency to PM me. I had no idea you had any issue with my stances on this topic since last week ...

Pretty much everyone has had issues with your stances on this topic.  AND Everyone has communicated those issues and you have done nothing but ramp up the behaviors.  Some of us have tried really hard to be respectful, stick to the issue at hand and avoid personal attacks.  

[Nadine]

Example?  I never get riled up by league offenses (check my posts on the Browns and Falcons punishments). I could have cared less. The off-field stuff has been different as some of the offense this year have been heinous but what has bothered me more is the league handling of them. And now to have the league come down like this on my team for ball deflation just does not sit well. 

That's true, you are outraged by the domestic violence and by any NFL handling of anything.

In this case you are outraged by how the NFL handled every aspect of this ball deflation issue.

But, what about concern about what's going on at the Patriots?  All sunshine and rainbows there? 

[amfootball]

Pretty much everyone has had issues with your stances on this topic.  AND Everyone has communicated those issues and you have done nothing but ramp up the behaviors.  Some of us have tried really hard to be respectful, stick to the issue at hand and avoid personal attacks.  

Huh? Since when is a stance on something suppose to change just because people disagree?

[BOTT]

Thought the penalty was a tad extreme. I guess the gist is don't act like bags when you get caught cheating.....even if it is minor.

The above has prob been stated, but I wasn't reading through 20 pages.

[amfootball]

That's true, you are outraged by the domestic violence and by any NFL handling of anything.

In this case you are outraged by how the NFL handled every aspect of this ball deflation issue.

But, what about concern about what's going on at the Patriots?  All sunshine and rainbows there? 

No, I think the Pats from day one could have handled the situation better. If not before the Super Bowl for obvious reasons than certainly after. I think the ball boy going into the bathroom looks bad as well as those texts but I truly feel the report did not prove any compliance from Brady. And that is the part that really bothers me along with the organization being hit so hard when Wells went out of his way to exonerate Kraft and Belichick and the equipment manager.

[ColtsBlueFL]

This is how things look to be shaping up. Brady and his lawyers are going to file a case against the NFL. They won't get things done prior to the start of the season and Brady very well might be on the field against the Steelers as the suspension will be most likely be put on hold as the case trudges though the legal system. I'm thinking Brady's legal team is pretty confident in their case to even bother and that's why we never heard boo from Brady. He's got aces in his pocket so to speak. This is going to get uglier for Roger and his NFL. This has been handled very, very poorly.

 

Nah, not yet.  They will file an appeal to the NFL within the next two days.  I believe Harold Henderson will be assigned to hear it.  And unless there is new info supplied(an admission if guilt or electronic documents that show Brady not directly involved in Jastremski and McNally's shenanigans), his suspension will remain.  I bet fine for Pats is reduced, but draft choices are gone. So, IMO, the easiest item of punishment the Pats can survive will be the only thing reduced.

 

Afte that, the Pats and Brady take their medicine and move on.  Their will be no Federal Court filing, I'm pretty sure.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Huh? Since when is a stance on something suppose to change just because people disagree?

ummmm.... when you're completely wrong about facts.  When you ignore posts with facts you can't refute.  When you make "facts" up.  When you can't tell the difference between opinion and fact?  When your arguments actually cancel each other out.  When you make outlandish statements that have no basis in fact then base your argument on that outlandish statement (called "circular reasoning")

 

I could go on but the other sad thing about you is you're not interested in learning or growing, just arguing.  

[Superman]

Why the cheap shot then? At least have the decency to PM me. I had no idea you had any issue with my stances on this topic since last week ...

 

It's not a cheap shot. And I've responded to you directly on several occasions since the Wells report came out, only for you to ignore my posts (and those of others) that had direct questions that you didn't want to answer. I responded to you directly in this thread, telling you what I think of your posting.

 

And it's really cringe-worthy. I didn't think anyone could retreat into such a tightly wound ball of deflection and logical fallacy as quickly as you have since last week, and you haven't broken character at all since then. 

 

In so many words, you've said:

• This is the Colts fault
• This is the NFL's fault
• This is Wells' fault
• The Patriots didn't do anything wrong
• There's no proof the Patriots did anything wrong
• It doesn't matter whether you cheat, so long as you win
• The Patriots fully cooperated with the investigation
• Everyone cheats, who cares?
• Pats fans don't care what anyone else thinks because our team wins
• The Ravens and Seahawks rings are tainted

It's shameful.

 

If you think me giving my appraisal of how you've tried to defend your team and how you've posted is "cheap" and lacks "decency," well, I'll just say that I don't think it's going to affect my sleep.

 

And as always, if you have a problem with something I do as a member of this site, feel free to report it to the mod team.

[amfootball]

It's not a cheap shot. And I've responded to you directly on several occasions since the Wells report came out, only for you to ignore my posts (and those of others) that had direct questions that you didn't want to answer. I responded to you directly in this thread, telling you what I think of your posting.

 

And it's really cringe-worthy. I didn't think anyone could retreat into such a tightly wound ball of deflection and logical fallacy as quickly as you have since last week, and you haven't broken character at all since then. 

 

In so many words, you've said:

• This is the Colts fault
• This is the NFL's fault
• This is Wells' fault
• The Patriots didn't do anything wrong
• There's no proof the Patriots did anything wrong
• It doesn't matter whether you cheat, so long as you win
• The Patriots fully cooperated with the investigation
• Everyone cheats, who cares?
• Pats fans don't care what anyone else thinks because our team wins
• The Ravens and Seahawks rings are tainted

It's shameful.

 

If you think me giving my appraisal of how you've tried to defend your team and how you've posted is "cheap" and lacks "decency," well, I'll just say that I don't think it's going to affect my sleep.

 

And as always, if you have a problem with something I do as a member of this site, feel free to report it to the mod team.

Oh please. Nothing like taking a list like that and not put them into the context of the posts that I was responding to from other posters. And I have not been able to respond to everyone on everything as I don't have that much time or typing muscle. Not to mention many times I received the same questions over and over ...

 

As I said, it has been shameful what has been allowed to be said and remain on these boards. There are some great posters up here but the number of off the wall posts has increased dramatically ...

[SteelCityColt]

Huh? Since when is a stance on something suppose to change just because people disagree?

What's the old idiom again? If you think everyone else is wrong.....

[amfootball]

ummmm.... when you're completely wrong about facts.  When you ignore posts with facts you can't refute.  When you make "facts" up.  When you can't tell the difference between opinion and fact?  When your arguments actually cancel each other out.  When you make outlandish statements that have no basis in fact then base your argument on that outlandish statement (called "circular reasoning")

 

I could go on but the other sad thing about you is you're not interested in learning or growing, just arguing.  

It would seem your Chargers sticky towel incident is going to be one of the main things Brady uses in his defense along with other examples of ball tampering (Minn this year) that were either ignored by the league or only punished with a warning or small fine.

[csmopar]

As I said, it has been shameful what has been allowed to be said and remain on these boards. There are some great posters up here but the number of off the wall posts has increased dramatically ...

95 percent of which are from you...

[Superman]

It would seem your Chargers sticky towel incident is going to be one of the main things Brady uses in his defense along with other examples of ball tampering (Minn this year) that were either ignored by the league or only punished with a warning or small fine.

Deflection.

[SteelCityColt]

Oh please. Nothing like taking a list like that and not put them into the context of the posts that I was responding to from other posters. And I have not been able to respond to everyone on everything as I don't have that much time or typing muscle. Not to mention many times I received the same questions over and over ...

As I said, it has been shameful what has been allowed to be said and remain on these boards. There are some great posters up here but the number of off the wall posts has increased dramatically ...

I think the list is a fair summary of the views you've expressed across the various topics. Besides for someone who hasn't got much tine you've certainly found it to respond to the posts that don't ask difficult questuons or poke holes in a lot of what you've said.

You're right though the number of off the wall posts has been silly but I'm afraid IMO they've mostly come from you. The way you've represented yourself and your team is a great example of why people don't like the Pats. The sheer hubris to say "We cheated but we don't care because we won and you all hate us because we win." Mind boggling levels of arrogance and delusion.

To be clear I'm posting as a poster here, you've been given a lot of time and patience by a lot of people involved on this forum and quite frankly you're abusing it.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

What's the old idiom again? If you think everyone else is wrong.....

When an entire community has a problem with you - a wise person might want to listen and learn from the criticism.  

 

This is a really good place.  There are good people here.  There is solid, logical interesting communication that goes on here.  The problem with this week has NOT been this community.  In my years here, over and over people have been able to disagree agreeably - it's one of the reasons I hang around here.  

 

Wise people glean from other's wisdom.

Wise people recognize they don't know everything and are open to learning from others and seeing from other's perspectives.

Wise people are humble enough to be able to take criticism and grow from it.  In fact they welcome the input of others.

Wise people actually care ABOUT others when expressing their own opinions.   

[dw49]

Oh please. Nothing like taking a list like that and not put them into the context of the posts that I was responding to from other posters. And I have not been able to respond to everyone on everything as I don't have that much time or typing muscle. Not to mention many times I received the same questions over and over ...

 

As I said, it has been shameful what has been allowed to be said and remain on these boards. There are some great posters up here but the number of off the wall posts has increased dramatically ...

 

 

No offense AM .. but when you talk about the" off the wall posts "increasing are you talking about all the NE posters that said things like.."the Colts took the air out of the ball. " They went on to twist the report around and say that (the intercepted ball) was the "ONLY badly deflated ball". "All the others were just a tick below." Virdulant and others went on to say when the investigation was over , it would be the Colts that would be in hot water. We have been blasted with pure crap like this since january . So just to be clear.. is this what you meant by "off the wall posts ?'

[Two_pound]

I personally think the Wells report just covered up more cheating by the pats and ineptitude by the nfl. It really accomplished nothing. The FACT remains the Colts turned in the pats in November for deflated footballs and less than 2 months later the Colts caught them again. Who in the nfl "office of fair play" decided it's ok for the pats to cheat? Another interesting point to ponder- if the Colts hadn't turned the story over to the media the second time they caught them cheating would the nfl had done anything about it then? How much has the nfl coddled the cheats these past 15 years?

[GoColts8818]

Know your audience. While fans of all teams are welcomed here this is still a Colts fans message board. While Colts fans are not given free reign to attack other teams (see superman telling another Colts fan in this thread that they were trolling) they are given the pass to talk about how Colts fans feel about other teams. Also, if someone just antagonizes Colts fans none stop then odds are mods are going to let's Colts posters give it back some. This falls under don't dish it out of one can't take it.

My suggestion to Pats fans is if you are looking for a sympathic place to discuss this matter you should probably go to a Pats board. If you are going to choose to post here though it's full of people who do not view the Pats in a favorable light and you aren't going to change their minds just as Colts fans won't change pats fans minds.

[amfootball]

I think the list is a fair summary of the views you've expressed across the various topics. Besides for someone who hasn't got much tine you've certainly found it to respond to the posts that don't ask difficult questuons or poke holes in a lot of what you've said.

You're right though the number of off the wall posts has been silly but I'm afraid IMO they've mostly come from you. The way you've represented yourself and your team is a great example of why people don't like the Pats. The sheer hubris the say we cheated but we don't care because we won and you all hate us because we win. Mind boggling levels of arrogance and delusion.

To be clear I'm posting as a poster here, you've been given a lot of time and patience by a lot of people involved on this forum and quite frankly you're abusing it.

Point well taken. My apologies. I will stay off the boards the rest of the week related to this topic. Probably best all around. I don't want folks that upset ...

[Nadine]

No, I think the Pats from day one could have handled the situation better. If not before the Super Bowl for obvious reasons than certainly after. I think the ball boy going into the bathroom looks bad as well as those texts but I truly feel the report did not prove any compliance from Brady. And that is the part that really bothers me along with the organization being hit so hard when Wells went out of his way to exonerate Kraft and Belichick and the equipment manager.

 

I don't think Wells 'went out of his way to exonerate anyone, he was just saying what he found and he found nothing on those guys.

 

Draft picks surprised me but I'm not the one in charge of the integrity of the game.  

 

I don't get you saying they didn't prove compliance from brady.  Not sure what it would take for you to believe that.

 

But then I think there's a difference between believing he was compliant and asserting that you don't think it's been proven.

 

We all believe he was complicit in this and the proof is there.  

 

Unlike many colts fans, I don't care about Brady one way or the other.  I'm not a hater but........it's right there in plain sight.  For me, there's no denying it.  For you I guess there always will be denying it

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I personally think the Wells report just covered up more cheating by the pats and ineptitude by the nfl. It really accomplished nothing. The FACT remains the Colts turned in the pats in November for deflated footballs and less than 2 months later the Colts caught them again. Who in the nfl "office of fair play" decided it's ok for the pats to cheat? Another interesting point to ponder- if the Colts hadn't turned the story over to the media the second time they caught them cheating would the nfl had done anything about it then? How much has the nfl coddled the cheats these past 15 years?

 

Well considering Spygate & burned video's & this & many years now of perfect ball control far & above the other 31 teams IMO like Goodell said in Nov since 2000...  It really is a crock ...

[Girlzarefanstoo]

You could not have illustrated my point more clearly if you tried to do so:

 

 

Girlzarefanstoo, on 12 May 2015 - 3:10 PM, said:

ummmm.... when you're completely wrong about facts.  When you ignore posts with facts you can't refute.  When you make "facts" up.  When you can't tell the difference between opinion and fact?  When your arguments actually cancel each other out.  When you make outlandish statements that have no basis in fact then base your argument on that outlandish statement (called "circular reasoning")

 

I could go on but the other sad thing about you is you're not interested in learning or growing, just arguing.  

It would seem your Chargers sticky towel incident is going to be one of the main things Brady uses in his defense along with other examples of ball tampering (Minn this year) that were either ignored by the league or only punished with a warning or small fine.

 

 

 

1.When you ignore posts with facts you can't refute

2.  When you make outlandish statements that have no basis in fact then base your argument on that outlandish statement (called "circular reasoning").  In this case, the Chargers being entirely exonerated by the NFL and their fine being returned to them when THEY won the judgement, will be used to defeat the NFL's judgment

 

The only reason I have interacted with you at all this week is in the hope that something that was said would break through for you.  You have no idea how much I care about you - the person, not the football fan.  I am very concerned that life will not go well for you unless the character traits you have shown in this forum are changed.  It's bigger than football.  Yes... no matter how much we love the sport, there are lots of things bigger than football.  

[PrincetonTiger]

IMO any appeal will cause more harm to the legacies of TB and the Pats

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Not necessarily one of AM's favorites but the one I like that even the talking heads use is "it didn't matter if the balls were messed with as the Pats stomped the Colts." 

 

The Patriots got 17 points while cheating in the first half , Half the game is over now they set back realizing that the Colts offense would be throwing , Why because our run game sucked .

 

Anotherwards they cheated to get the lead . The second half did'nt matter IMO the game was never fair from the start & that is the biggest problem .

 

Basicly the Colts got screwed the first half by the NFL & the Patriots . 

 

Both teams must in the future use the same balls .

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Ted Wells had a news conference & he's not happy with yee & Brady & Kraft for questioning his integrity .

 

A good read ..

 

 

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/5/12/8594489/deflategate-notes-from-ted-wells-press-conference

[Rally5]

I think the overall penalties are about right,  but I would've given Brady 6 games instead of 4.

 

He would've gotten 4 games for the competitive advantage rule and he would've gotten another 2 for NOT cooperating with the NFL.     His lack of cooperation is part of the reason this investigation took as long as it did.

 

I'll add this last thought...........  Colts better be ready for their game with New England.   It will have a HUGE tv audience and if the Pats could put up 100 points against us,  they absolutely will.     They could have 75 points by half and Brady will come back out to play.....

 

This will be the pay-back game of all pay-back games..........            

I hope we view it as being cheated on for years and decide to get some venegence for being screwed over by a bunch of cheaters.  This isn't about their recompense, it's about ours...on the field.  At least that's my pregame speech!

[Superman]

Both teams must in the future use the same balls .

 

I disagree. Both teams must respect the rules.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

This is just laughable.

"Yee didn't stop there. He also suggested the league was in cahoots with the Indianapolis Colts, who blew the whistle on the Patriots after under-inflated footballs were found in the first half of their AFC Championship Game loss to New England in January."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/05/11/tom-brady-agent-reaction-statement-suspension-roger-goodell-colts-don-yee-integrity/27145745/

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I disagree. Both teams must respect the rules.

 DUH 

 

But why not the same ball ?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

IMO its stupid to use different balls .

[CR91]

sour grapes anyone

[ColtRider]

I said it before, but I honestly don't think it's delusion.  It's gotten to the point of straight-up trolling.[/

Not giving the _plants_ too much water and sunshine could very well correct the problem.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I disagree. Both teams must respect the rules.

 

I was hoping you was gonna lay some wisdom on me but as I said they should use the same ball there is no good reason not to , And there now is a great reason for it .  Rule change

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Art Rooney 2 wonders why not the same ball ?

 

 

 

Steelers president Art Rooney II is one of those wondering why a league that micromanages the color of shoes and the height of socks doesn’t make sure that such a key piece of equipment is standardized for all involved. Rooney said that he doesn’t think the deflated ball controversy is “on the scale of serious,” though he thinks the league will do something if they find rules have been broken, and he doesn’t think it’s necessary for the league to put itself at risk of future issues on this front.

“The one thing I would say is this rule where we use two different sets of balls is relatively new, and frankly I’m not sure why we came to this conclusion. I assume this will be something that the Competition Committee looks at,” Rooney said, via the league’s website. “But as far as I’m concerned, I think we all ought to use the same balls and not have each side have their own footballs available to them. That’s just my view of it, but it seems to be simpler to just have one set of balls, which was the case for many years where the officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same balls. It seems like that would be an easy answer to this.”

[bluebombers87]

That we are horrible people. Just the worst people ever.

You have kids Shane? You ever loved something unconditionally before? We are fans of this team, and much like when your kid does something stupid and you are disappointed in them, you don't stop loving them.

That's a bit dramatic.

The issue isn't that you can't still support your team if they've done something wrong.

The issue is that there are too many pats fans who refuse to see logically.

[ColtRider]

I said it before, but I honestly don't think it's delusion.  It's gotten to the point of straight-up trolling.[/

Not giving the _plants_ too much water and sunshine could very well correct the problem.

This is the part that cracks me up. Do you think Pats fans care about the national perception? Since 2007 the Pats have been labeled cheaters and an org that likes to push limits yet Colts fans pretty much use the Pats as their standard for what a championship should look like. Honestly Adonis, your Colts section and NFL section has more threads and pages on the Pats than most Pats forums. The obsession borders on the insane level but I digress.

 

I think for most of us, we understand much of the dislike of the Pats and the rush to label them cheaters while other orgs get a pass for much more egregious violations than camera location and ball air pressure is because the team consistently wins and Belichick may be one of the most unlikeable public figures to ever appear in front of a camera. That being said, as I have said before, winning that 4th title pretty much sealed the deal for this org in terms of its legacy with its "tarnishes" and all. Thanks in large part to Pete Carroll's brain fart and Butler's amazing play, the Pats are the team that everyone is racing to catch on a historical level. That is very satisfying for us fans despite this ball inflation surfacing again as the league pretends it really cares about the integrity of the game.

 

Should be a great summer of litigation coming right at us as the Pats and Brady have nothing to lose. They are the defending champs and with a little extra motivation to make 2015 as special as 2014 .... but really they don't need to. And that is the best part of all. Complete closure with that win on Feb. 1.

"the Pats and Brady have nothing to lose"...

You're correct. They have lost everything worth it's salt already ... The Truth!

[Superman]

 DUH 

 

But why not the same ball ?

 

IMO its stupid to use different balls .

 

There's a process for this. It's never been an issue in the eight years since the rule was changed allowing teams to prepare and submit their own footballs. One team chose to cheat, and now they're being excoriated for it. I don't see why that means the rule needs to change back.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

There's a process for this. It's never been an issue in the eight years since the rule was changed allowing teams to prepare and submit their own footballs. One team chose to cheat, and now they're being excoriated for it. I don't see why that means the rule needs to change back.

 

I can give you 1 good reason the AFC game & how ever many games they have done it .

 

Its a fairness issue that is all about the Integrity of the game you can bet it will be changed after this fiasco in fact I'd make a avatar bet with you in a second that the competition committee brings it for a vote @ there next meeting & it passes .

 

Bet

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I can give you 1 good reason the AFC game & how ever many games they have done it .

 

Its a fairness issue that is all about the Integrity of the game you can bet it will be changed after this fiasco in fact I'd make a avatar bet with you in a second that the competition committee brings it for a vote @ there next meeting & it passes .

 

Bet

 

 

A wonder woman avatar for the loser ...

[Superman]

I can give you 1 good reason the AFC game & how ever many games they have done it .

 

Its a fairness issue that is all about the Integrity of the game you can bet it will be changed after this fiasco in fact I'd make a avatar bet with you in a second that the competition committee brings it for a vote @ there next meeting & it passes .

 

Bet

 

Terms?