Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)

[OffensivelyPC 1,111]

You left out the part that the intercepted ball was not deflated and by all 3 measurements was in the exact range that it should have been according to Exponent.

What?  Where does it say that?  Because I don't recall the Exponent report saying anything abotu the measurements of the intercepted football.  In fact, the Wells report says (a) that the the intercepted football measured 11 psi according to the Colts measurement (p. 63) and "all three measurements [by the officials in the locker room] were below 12 psi (p. 65), and (b) that the intercepted footballs was not among those tested page 7, Para. 10, meaning that anythign Exponent says about the intercepted football measurement would have had to come from Wells or the referees.

[OffensivelyPC 1,111]

the guy's an unemployed Spannish cook, his artist name is Risitas (whinnying lough). He is talking about he was appointed by doing the wash ups, and he took all the cutlery to the beach and waited for tide to clean them (obviously he wanted save his energies) but sea wiped away everything.

 

This video is widely used in Hungary for fake subtitles, especially roasting soccer teams and Team Hungary when fails...

Ha, yeah I didn't think it was about Deflategate.  When he mentioned the Wells report, I never heard the word "Wells."  So I kind of figured the subtitles were superimposed.  Thanks for the clarification (and the translated summary)!  Can see why he might be unemployed, given how he washed his cutlery lol.

[throwing BBZ 1,147]

Irsay and Goodell in cahoots...  Irsay's in cahoots with the dude who just suspended him for 6 games and fined him 1/2 a mill. in 2014.   That's worse than Brady got. 

 

 Not even close to Brady`s penalty.

[ProblChld32 282]

Wow, how low!

[PeterBowman 1,439]

I think the moral of the story is...... dont cheat and there will be nothing to worry about

[crazycolt1 7,367]

 Not even close to Brady`s penalty.

Really? What Irsay did was not NFL related. It was personal.

[ColtsBlueFL 4,385]

You left out the part that the intercepted ball was not deflated and by all 3 measurements was in the exact range that it should have been according to Exponent.

 

 

First, irrelevant to my takeaways from the report. 

 

Second-

 

Finally, from the report for those that haven't read it (it is long and tedious) - Colts measured the intercepted ball n game conditions on sideline.  It was 11 psi.

 

Later, the NFL had the ball taken to the Ref's locker room.  There, back in the warm environment {Ref locker room} where they were supposed to have been made at least 12.5 psi before game play, it was measured again.  On 3 separate occasions. The report does not make it sound like it was 3 times n a row, either.  The measurements were written on athletic tape placed on the ball.  They were-  11.45, 11.35, 11.75. 

 

This ball was measured separate from the others, and retained by NFL personnel.  It was not re inflated and reintroduced into the game like the 11 others.  And that is also why you only see 11 (and not 12) Patriots balls measured at halftime.

[BullsColtsFan1 191]

I don't know if anyone posted this but I got a good laugh out of it. 

 

"I hear there's elevator footage of Tom Brady punching footballs in the face". pic.twitter.com/l57YE9YGbv

— Chris Rock (@chrisrock) May 12, 2015

[Superman 9,190]

Perspective.  I've seen it far worse than this

 

The early part of 2012 was outrageous.

[Jaric 44]

Even if we did set up a sting operation...how would that exonerate Brady?

Considering all the money he's being paid, I hope Brady's legal team has a better defense than "well, the method used to catch us is somewhat sketchy!"

[Crush22 256]

Forget that...this is the same man that went overboard with the Myra exploits during 2011, then turns around and hooks up with a girl young enough to be his grand daughter.

Exactly

[FanFromtheWasteland 20]

Would you consider trading your gold mind for my ocean front property here in Indiana?

Lol. I will have my people talk to your people

[radiogirl 174]

I really dislike threads where I could give all 20 likes for the day.  Four things I have liked:

 

• Gramz is back!!!  YAY!!
• The mods have told it "like it is" and reiterated the rules.  LIKE!!!
• Radiogirl tells it like it is a lot better than I do
• I have stayed pretty much out of it.

I will need to come back and like more of these awesome comments by the mods and my other friends and Colt fans.  Great job!!                !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aaaaahhhhhh.......LIKE!

[csmopar 7,193]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-j-feeley-says-he-witnessed-patriots-use-doctored-footballs/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Looks like this may have gone on back to 2004...

[pgt_rob 709]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-j-feeley-says-he-witnessed-patriots-use-doctored-footballs/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Looks like this may have gone on back to 2004...

 

I was just reading that! Looks like AJ Feeley witnessed the Pats using footballs outside of league rules even back then.

[PeterBowman 1,439]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-j-feeley-says-he-witnessed-patriots-use-doctored-footballs/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Looks like this may have gone on back to 2004...

which is why a 4 game suspension for Brady is a slap on the wrist, if true.

[jvan1973 5,338]

which is why a 4 game suspension for Brady is a slap on the wrist, if true.

in that particular case I would put that more on the refs. How could they not tell the difference between a worn in ball and a brand new one

[PeterBowman 1,439]

in that particular case I would put that more on the refs. How could they not tell the difference between a worn in ball and a brand new one

and the league too because if it was "common knowledge" this was going on, then  I'm sure there were MANY complaints sent in to them about it.

[Gramz 2,172]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-j-feeley-says-he-witnessed-patriots-use-doctored-footballs/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Looks like this may have gone on back to 2004...

Then again, it could be another case of sour grapes.

/sarcasm

[OffensivelyPC 1,111]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-j-feeley-says-he-witnessed-patriots-use-doctored-footballs/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Looks like this may have gone on back to 2004...

This just confirms what was in the report, really.  It's not necessarily new information, other than perhaps, it shows a successful attempt by McNally to actually get the old worn in footballs on teh field unnoticed.

[Hoosier 3]

and the league too because if it was "common knowledge" this was going on, then  I'm sure there were MANY complaints sent in to them about it.

 

And Wells has said that they just didn't take Grigson's initial complaint seriously.  So it's not hard to believe that it was being ignored back then.

[PeterBowman 1,439]

And Wells has said that they just didn't take Grigson's initial complaint seriously.  So it's not hard to believe that it was being ignored back then.

very true, and this just emboldened them more.

[Superman 9,190]

This is just laughable.

"Yee didn't stop there. He also suggested the league was in cahoots with the Indianapolis Colts, who blew the whistle on the Patriots after under-inflated footballs were found in the first half of their AFC Championship Game loss to New England in January."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/05/11/tom-brady-agent-reaction-statement-suspension-roger-goodell-colts-don-yee-integrity/27145745/

 

Merging with the main thread on this in NFL General. 

[krunk 4,171]

  Patriots | Tom Brady's ban could be overturned    Wed May 13, 09:55 AM

New England Patriots QB Tom Brady's four-game suspension could be reduced significantly, and possibly overturned, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter. Brady has put together a renowned legal team to appeal his suspension.

 

 

Footballguys view: The legal team is made up of some of the best lawyers in the country. The appeals process will take some time, and we believe his sentence could be reduced to a couple of games instead of four. Some feel this legal team could eliminate the suspension entirely....stay tuned.

 

Link to story
Tom Brady player page

[Dustin 89]

Patriots fans are basically like this irl:

 

"Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests."

[ColtsBlueFL 4,385]

which is why a 4 game suspension for Brady is a slap on the wrist, if true.

 

Nah, the report back then was the Colts scuffed it up and stuffed it in the Pats bag....  

[ColtsBlueFL 4,385]

This just confirms what was in the report, really.  It's not necessarily new information, other than perhaps, it shows a successful attempt by McNally to actually get the old worn in footballs on teh field unnoticed.

 

I don't expect either you or Bav to answer if either of you don't feel like it, but what kind of field day could the NFL have in Discovery on this case if Kraft/Brady/Pats file in Federal court after the appeal?

 

I expect enough to have a long sordid, ugly trial...  (Peter King prediction) Ugh.  :-(

[ColtsBlueFL 4,385]

  Patriots | Tom Brady's ban could be overturned    Wed May 13, 09:55 AM

New England Patriots QB Tom Brady's four-game suspension could be reduced significantly, and possibly overturned, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter. Brady has put together a renowned legal team to appeal his suspension.

 

 

Footballguys view: The legal team is made up of some of the best lawyers in the country. The appeals process will take some time, and we believe his sentence could be reduced to a couple of games instead of four. Some feel this legal team could eliminate the suspension entirely....stay tuned.

 

Link to story

Tom Brady player page

 

Peter King is no fan of Wells or his report.  He personally hopes the suspension is reduced on appeal.  But he has talked to many, many NFL insiders and he says nary a one of them believe any time will be knocked off the suspension.  Bill Polian has commented publicly (remember he was on the competition committee when these new football rules were put in place!), emphatically even, that there should be no reduction in the suspension.  He feels it must stand as a deterrent for future incidents, or there will essentially be a license for lawlessness in this regard. (Especially if removed altogether).

 

I heard yesterday that the only way a reduction would be merited is if Brady/McNally cam e clean in admission, or Brady agrees to surrender his electronic communicatins on any device regarding the matter (screened through his lawyers, of course).  And King actually beleives after the appeal is lost, that high powered team will file in Fed court.  And it will be an huge, drawn out, and ugly, sordid affair that will leaves bad stains on everyone and everything.

 

Not a good outlook from Mr. Monday Morning Quarterback.

[ColtsBlueFL 4,385]

Patriots fans are basically like this irl:

 

"Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests."

  If you had found room for     Matriculatin'   in there also,  I'd  be 

 

 

Thank you Mr. Hank Stram!! 

[SteelCityColt 4,466]

Patriots fans are basically like this irl:

 

"Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests."

[CLOWN 0]

in that particular case I would put that more on the refs. How could they not tell the difference between a worn in ball and a brand new one

 

That's been my question as well. The league and the refs have responsibility in this as well. Up until this coming season there has been no procedure in place. In fact there wasn't even protocol in the Colts/Pats game. The series of blunders were beyond ridiculous. This whole thing stinks.    

[NFLfan 8,297]

Peter King is no fan of Wells or his report. He personally hopes the suspension is reduced on appeal. But he has talked to many, many NFL insiders and he says nary a one of them believe any time will be knocked off the suspension. Bill Polian has commented publicly (remember he was on the competition committee when these new football rules were put in place!), emphatically even, that there should be no reduction in the suspension. He feels it must stand as a deterrent for future incidents, or there will essentially be a license for lawlessness in this regard. (Especially if removed altogether).

I heard yesterday that the only way a reduction would be merited is if Brady/McNally cam e clean in admission, or Brady agrees to surrender his electronic communicatins on any device regarding the matter (screened through his lawyers, of course). And King actually beleives after the appeal is lost, that high powered team will file in Fed court. And it will be an huge, drawn out, and ugly, sordid affair that will leaves bad stains on everyone and everything.

Not a good outlook from Mr. Monday Morning Quarterback.

I agree. This may get ugly. Have you read anything from legal experts about what the outcome of all this could be?

[Restored 264]

Patriots fans are basically like this irl:

 

"Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests."

 

Not surprisingly, this was easier to understand than some Patriots fans posts on this board.

[Gramz 2,172]

That's been my question as well. The league and the refs have responsibility in this as well. Up until this coming season there has been no procedure in place. In fact there wasn't even protocol in the Colts/Pats game. The series of blunders were beyond ridiculous. This whole thing stinks.

It still doesn't excuse wrong doing. It might be a reason, but it's no excuse.

If it wasn't wrong, there would have been no reason to hide what was being done. My 6 yr old grandaughter even understands that.

[Archangel 22]

The other thing that bothers me is how some reporters are implying that a 4 time SB Champion should somehow be treated more leniently than say a say an NFL QB with no shiny jewelry on his hand. Excuse me? 

 

I might give a man of his caliber [what Brady has accomplished in this league] the benefit of the doubt initially until he refuses to turn over his phone thru his attorney's law firm. That's a H-U-G-E red flag to me.

 

There are no special rules for HOF QBs & then everybody else. Your lawyer is there to protect you & verify that no sensitive materials outside this investigation.

 

We can do this the easy way or the hard way  & if you give me [ [NFL investigators]  additional work; we will nail your behind to the wall Mr. Brady. You turn over what the league asks for & be completely forthcoming & the punishment phase will be minimal, but if you act defiant & not comply with us & the league will sting you pretty good. 

 

I just don't like the idea of preferential treatment. I don't give a crap how many rings you have. You play ball & the whole experience is a gentle one; You play hardball & you will feel like a porcupine took advantage of you. The ball is & always was in Brady's court. He determines how he is treated & right now he's created his own nightmare as I see it. 

 

I have to agree with coming forth and be honest, And i have stated this before if he would of come clean at the beginning of this and when he was asked and willfully admitted to the deflation of the footballs and that he had some sort of knowledge of what was going on after the AFCG and before the SB. The league would of suspended him for the SB and he was not going to let that happen, This is why their was a investigation all he is trying to do now is poke holes into the investigation and hope his fans will understand what he did and try to get as much support he can before he goes forth with the appeal. 

 

I honestly dont care if he is innocent or guilty anymore this whole thing has gotten out of control. All everyone knows for sure something happened with the game balls. 

[csmopar 7,193]

I agree. This may get ugly. Have you read anything from legal experts about what the outcome of all this could be?

I have. Including the one legal expert calling for federal charges of bribery for brady....not that I think that should happen but if it were, it could get ugly very ugly, real quick for both the league and Brady.

[Gramz 2,172]

I have. Including the one legal expert calling for federal charges of bribery for brady....not that I think that should happen but if it were, it could get ugly very ugly, real quick for both the league and Brady.

Wow

[OffensivelyPC 1,111]

I don't expect either you or Bav to answer if either of you don't feel like it, but what kind of field day could the NFL have in Discovery on this case if Kraft/Brady/Pats file in Federal court after the appeal?

 

I expect enough to have a long sordid, ugly trial...  (Peter King prediction) Ugh.  :-(

Oh man, I am way out of practice with my civil rules of evidence, but at bare minimum, the stuff that Wells wanted to follow up on and Brady's phone would become subject to discovery.  And depending on the "relevance" of the prior history, which I think it is relevant as it establishes the context with which to view the texts, it could go back quite some time.  I just don't see any reason for Brady to take this to trial.  If I put on my ethical lawyer hat, unless I know something that isn't already out there about my client that might exonerate him (which seems highly unlikely as Brady and his agent and lawyer would have been chomping at the bit to turn at least those texts over), I am advising Brady to just appeal the length of the suspension, get it down to 2 games and just let it go.  What's done is done, ya know?

[ColtsBlueFL 4,385]

That's been my question as well. The league and the refs have responsibility in this as well. Up until this coming season there has been no procedure in place. In fact there wasn't even protocol in the Colts/Pats game. The series of blunders were beyond ridiculous. This whole thing stinks.    

 

Well i don't want to come off sounding harsh here.  But yes, flawed as it was shown to be, there are official NFL rules and protocols pre-game for measuring and handling the game and Kicking footballs.

 

I'll explain.  The week prior to a game, the QB's / Team get to practice with the game balls.  The ball boys and equipment manager prep up to 24 of the balls given the OK by the QB.  This varies from QB to QB, but they all do it, and the QB is very picky about it.  Here's just 2 articles on it worth a read-

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sports/football/eli-mannings-footballs-are-months-in-making.html?_r=0

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-video-how-nfl-officials-check-game-ball-pressure/

 

Now, 2 hours and fifteen minutes before kickoff on the day of the game, 12 game balls and 12 backup balls from the home team (which would be the Pats in the AFCCG) are submitted to the Refs locker room.  Also 12 game balls from the Visitors (Colts) are brought to the Refs locker room.  Since it is an outdoor stadium, the Visitors can also bring an additional 12 backup game balls to the Ref's locker room.  I believe both teams did that. {Indoor stadium, visitors can only bring 12 game balls, no backups}.

 

Now the official rule states the air pressure must be 13 PSI.  Also in the rules, there is an allowance of up to and including a 1/2 pound (0.5 PSI) variance above and below 13 PSI.  Thus we get the 12.5 to 13.5 PSI range.  Teams can submit their balls anywhere in that range.  If the Ref's measure in that range as well, they mark it and put it in the ball bag.  I f it come in over 13.5 (Hello Mr. Rodgers!  )  PSI, the Refs stick in the Gauge and bleed it down to 13.5, mark it and throw it in the game ball bag.  If a ball comes in below 12.5 PSI (Hello Mr. Brady! ),  Then the Ref sticks in the needle with the pump and inflates.  Then gauges it again and bleeds it to 12.5-13 PSI.  Marks it and throw it in the bag.

 

So you see, there were 48 balls to do this to that night.  But in the secure locker room of the ref is where they stay until 10 minutes before kickoff.  At that point, a Home Team designated ball handler comes to the locker room and grabs the Home and Visitors ball bags and is escorted to the field by the Ref and officials.  At which point they are delivered to the home and visiting teams sidelines.  The backup balls remain securely locked in the Refs locker room.  The 'Fail' here was, the Pats ball handler went in to the Refs locker room early, and took the game balls without permission or supervision.  That is why Walt Anderson Panicked when he  noticed them gone. He even went to the field and direct an NFL security official to fetch the backup balls.  Then Anderson spotted McNally and the bags of (now altered) game balls.  He cancels the backups and puts the altered Pats balls into play.  So the protocol was breached by thievery. Something the protocol never planned for.  That will be addressed, for sure next year.

 

The kicking balls are 12 special balls picked and packaged at Wilson factory itself.  They are boxed up and sent to the Hotel of the head ref the night before the game.   The Ref brings those balls to his locker room at the stadium as well.  45 minutes before kickoff, the teams have a rep (break in' specialist) work those K balls.  The only have 30 minutes.  The Ref makes sure they are between 12.5 and 13.5 after each prep, marked with a K, and put in the K ball bag. Those come out with the Refs 10 minute prior to kickoff as well.

 

So you see, there is a fairly rigid protocol in placed, and mentioned in the rulebook and operations manual of the NFL.  In an earlier post, I lay out how/why the breach was successful at the AFCCG.  Now I expect the NFL rule book and operations manual to grow even more for future seasons.

[ColtsBlueFL 4,385]

I agree. This may get ugly. Have you read anything from legal experts about what the outcome of all this could be?

 

Not about after the appeal, yet, but most all reports says Brady won't get leniency unless something new is presented (admission of guilt, withheld electronic data/documents, etc...)

 

Nobody really wants to think about a filing in Federal court at this juncture, I feel.  But I'm sure many are already toying with ideas about it..