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Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)


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I'm not buying my fellow fans "Integrity" chant. I'd like the Colts to beat the Pats as much as the next guy but I'm not out to persecute the Patriots because of a little known and historically ignored rule. Even when warned about the infraction the league and officials had no protocol for measuring and securing the balls that had so much to do with the leagues 'Integrity". Then they let the Patriots play the first half with balls they knew were most likely compromised...where's the "Integrity" in that? They must not have thought too much of it? Wells takes 108 days and bills the league millions for this garbage then gets upset about his "Integrity " being questioned? This whole thing is a skunk. The league needs to figure out protocol on the matter and implement it across the board then put the boys on the field and let them play. It embarrasses me and my fellow fans to think a under inflated ball is what makes for a SB team. It's just foolishness.     

Little known and historically ignored rule? Now you say it was not common knowledge the teams didn't know what pounds per square inch the footballs were suppose to be? I can see you care none for integrity. It is also plain to see you couldn't care less about rules and regulations. But most of all the cover up means little to you. I have a question for you. Is what you believe in what you teach your kids and or grand kids? Yes rules are broken no doubt by most teams. But the difference is most teams take their due punishment. With the Patriots it's a never ending deflection of the facts. These are not *s playing and coaching in the NFL. Playing dumb and stupid don't go over too well. What is more insulting is the horse dung the Patriots have put together as the truth. Integrity does mean something no matter what your opinion is.

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LOL

 

1) The rebuttal denies that either Jastremski or McNally did anything wrong, on several grounds (I don't agree with them so far, but whatever). If neither did anything wrong, why did the Patriots suspend both of them?

 

2) "The deflator" refers to McNally's attempt to lose weight. LOLOLOLOL

 

3) No one saw McNally with a needle, therefore, it can't be proved that he ever had one (even though the rebuttal states that he would bring a needle and sometimes two to the officials locker room so that the officials could test footballs before the game; the Wells report states that officials bring their own gauge and needle for testing). As jskinnz would say, dear God...

 

4) The Colts violated the rules by testing the intercepted football on the sideline, because only the refs can test footballs once the game starts... nice try. The football was a memento, and was taken out of play. The Colts could do whatever they wanted with that football on the sideline, except put it back in play.

 

 

 

How much are they paying whomever is writing this stuff??

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Ah. I got it. Thank you.

I must confess that I have not read the entire report -- I don't have the time. However, from the little snippets I have read here and there and what I have heard on the radio, it seems like it was McNally who was guilty of bribery. It seems like he was asking for gifts rather than him being offered gifts for deflating the balls. In addition, in those text messages, Jastremski never names Brady. McNally seems to go above and beyond to name Brady. Just my impression.

Having said that I do believe that Brady has been doing this for a while and those guys deflated those balls at his request. He should sit out those 4 games.

Now, on appeal, can he plead ignorance? Can he argue that he did not know anything about PSI levels and since the league allowed QBs to alter the balls to each QB's liking, he had no way of knowing that the balls were actually under-inflated? He could say he never asked McNally to alter the balls after they were checked and approved by the refs. I don't know...just thinking out loud.

Ignorance is not a plea in a court of law.  If he says he knows nothing and he truly did know something, it's perjury.  

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LOL

 

1) The rebuttal denies that either Jastremski or McNally did anything wrong, on several grounds (I don't agree with them so far, but whatever). If neither did anything wrong, why did the Patriots suspend both of them?

 

2) "The deflator" refers to McNally's attempt to lose weight. LOLOLOLOL

 

3) No one saw McNally with a needle, therefore, it can't be proved that he ever had one (even though the rebuttal states that he would bring a needle and sometimes two to the officials locker room so that the officials could test footballs before the game; the Wells report states that officials bring their own gauge and needle for testing). As jskinnz would say, dear God...

 

4) The Colts violated the rules by testing the intercepted football on the sideline, because only the refs can test footballs once the game starts... nice try. The football was a memento, and was taken out of play. The Colts could do whatever they wanted with that football on the sideline, except put it back in play.

Because they didn't see McNally with a needle then it can't be proved?  Unbelievable.  This is getting more insane by the minute.....

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I so want this in court...they are truly the laughing stock of the league.

It's a funny thing,  I have never been so frustrated yet "entertained"  simultaneously by something in my life.

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It's a funny thing,  I have never been so frustrated yet "entertained"  simultaneously by something in my life.

It's like watching someone fall on youtube.  You know it's wrong.  But, you can't turn away.  Can't.....stop......watching!  HA!  Okay, I'm going back to the world of reality......radio baby!

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It doesn't take much to read the report and realize what is mostly likely to have happened.  I will admit there is no "smoking gun" If that's because Brady has it on his phone and doesn't want to turn it over or because maybe the Pats were smart enough to talk about it in person rather than put the "smoking gun" in a text I don't know.  However, while nothing in the report by it's self says this alone proves the Pats did this there is enough there for one to conclude what happened.  It's like if you touch a door nob and it's hot that alone isn't enough to tell you there is a fire.  However, if smoke is also coming out of the room, the smoke detector is going off, and there is someone yelling hey there is a fire, then when you add all those things up you can probably conclude there is a fire without having to the see the fire. 

 

What's going on now is what you see people do when they don't want to believe something or are trying to find away to get off the hook.  The first part is to find any reason, no matter how out there is might be and say see you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that what you said happened.  While that is true when one is charged with a crime in criminal court this isn't criminal court.  The standard for proof is much lower.  Still people who don't want to believe the report or are trying to find away to get off the hook that's what they are going to point too and hey if you get a good enough lawyer you might very well win.  That doesn't mean one is innocent though, that just means you found someone who was able to find a big enough loop hole to let you off the hook. 

 

From there what you are starting to see is people attacking the person who said what they didn't want to hear and trying to make that person not creditable.  Most people see right through this other than those who want to believe it. 

 

I've also heard people saying it's unfair that the league took four months to investigate this and that four games is way too harsh.  Would you have rather Goodell ruled right away and not done a complete investigation and juts suspended Tom Brady for the Pats next game which was the Super Bowl?  Then people would have been screaming you can't rush to judgment on this you need to find out what really happened.  The bottom line is that people don't like that the report points the finger at Brady and said he had a role in this.

 

As for the punishment being too harsh I don't think this is as simple as Brady gets four games for deflating footballs.  Much more went into this.  The fact that Brady didn't full cooperate with the investigation and the fact that the Pats were treated as repeat offenders because of spygate also factored into the loss of picks, fines, and suspension handed out.  That's also going to come up in the appeal and those are things that happened.  So even if the suspension, fine, or loss of picks is reduced (which I have been saying from before it was announced that Brady would get four games reduced to two on appeal) I don't think it's going to completely go away either no matter how much the Pats try to bully everyone in the world into letting them have their way. 

 

The other popular line that I hear is that well everyone else does it, even if that's true which I don't think it is, that's not a defense.  Tell that to a police officer next time you get pulled over for speeding and see what happens.  Also, no not everyone else does it or if they do it they are much better at it than the Pats because they haven't been caught cheating twice and punished by the league twice for it.  Yes, other teams have gotten in trouble here or there, Saints, Falcons, and Browns all being recent examples.  But no other team has been caught for using video cameras to spy on other teams and no other team has been punished for deflating footballs. 

 

I don't think anyone is going to tell you that letting air out of the football is even close to the worst thing in the world.  Heck I don't think anyone would even tell you it came close to having any kind of major impact on the AFCCG which is what makes it even more crazy that the Pats do things like this.  They don't need too.  It also tells me, like the report found, that this probably wasn't the only time New England did this.  Also, the fact that the Pats were caught twice tells me that this is an organization that will do ANYTHING to win.  If that means bending and breaking the rules so be it.  They are the NFL's villain and bully and they have zero problems being seen that way.  I also don't think we know everything the Pats do to cheat.  Raheem Brock came the other day and said "the Pats have been cheating since I got in the league.  It's just one of those things because there is nothing you can do." or something close to that effect.  There is way too much smoke here to think the Pats are squeaky clean like some of their fans would have you believe. 

 

What does this all mean for their legacy I don't know but I do know one thing whenever the debate comes about where they belong the alltime greats someone is going to go "yeah but..." and you never want that attached to your team or favorite player. 

 

We'll see what happens with this because it's not over yet but based on everything I've seen and read the Pats are cheaters and are frankly trying to bully the world into making it go away and not only go away apologize for even suggesting they might have cheated and kiss their rings while they are at it.  That's why people can't stand them.  It's not because people are jealous of them it's because they cheat when they don't need to and act like high school bullies. 

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Because they didn't see McNally with a needle then it can't be proved?  Unbelievable.  This is getting more insane by the minute.....

 

No don't worry. The rebuttal states that McNally had a needle, and maybe two. So let's just strike the whole 'you can't prove he had a needle' part from our collective consciousness. It's making us dumber. 

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It doesn't take much to read the report and realize what is mostly likely to have happened.  I will admit there is no "smoking gun" If that's because Brady has it on his phone and doesn't want to turn it over or because maybe the Pats were smart enough to talk about it in person rather than put the "smoking gun" in a text I don't know.  However, while nothing in the report by it's self says this alone proves the Pats did this there is enough there for one to conclude what happened.  It's like if you touch a door nob and it's hot that alone isn't enough to tell you there is a fire.  However, if smoke is also coming out of the room, the smoke detector is going off, and there is someone yelling hey there is a fire, then when you add all those things up you can probably conclude there is a fire without having to the see the fire. 

 

What's going on now is what you see people do when they don't want to believe something or are trying to find away to get off the hook.  The first part is to find any reason, no matter how out there is might be and say see you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that what you said happened.  While that is true when one is charged with a crime in criminal court this isn't criminal court.  The standard for proof is much lower.  Still people who don't want to believe the report or are trying to find away to get off the hook that's what they are going to point too and hey if you get a good enough lawyer you might very well win.  That doesn't mean one is innocent though, that just means you found someone who was able to find a big enough loop hole to let you off the hook. 

 

From there what you are starting to see is people attacking the person who said what they didn't want to hear and trying to make that person not creditable.  Most people see right through this other than those who want to believe it. 

 

I've also heard people saying it's unfair that the league took four months to investigate this and that four games is way too harsh.  Would you have rather Goodell ruled right away and not done a complete investigation and juts suspended Tom Brady for the Pats next game which was the Super Bowl?  Then people would have been screaming you can't rush to judgment on this you need to find out what really happened.  The bottom line is that people don't like that the report points the finger at Brady and said he had a role in this.

 

As for the punishment being too harsh I don't think this is as simple as Brady gets four games for deflating footballs.  Much more went into this.  The fact that Brady didn't full cooperate with the investigation and the fact that the Pats were treated as repeat offenders because of spygate also factored into the loss of picks, fines, and suspension handed out.  That's also going to come up in the appeal and those are things that happened.  So even if the suspension, fine, or loss of picks is reduced (which I have been saying from before it was announced that Brady would get four games reduced to two on appeal) I don't think it's going to completely go away either no matter how much the Pats try to bully everyone in the world into letting them have their way. 

 

The other popular line that I hear is that well everyone else does it, even if that's true which I don't think it is, that's not a defense.  Tell that to a police officer next time you get pulled over for speeding and see what happens.  Also, no not everyone else does it or if they do it they are much better at it than the Pats because they haven't been caught cheating twice and punished by the league twice for it.  Yes, other teams have gotten in trouble here or there, Saints, Falcons, and Browns all being recent examples.  But no other team has been caught for using video cameras to spy on other teams and no other team has been punished for deflating footballs. 

 

I don't think anyone is going to tell you that letting air out of the football is even close to the worst thing in the world.  Heck I don't think anyone would even tell you it came close to having any kind of major impact on the AFCCG which is what makes it even more crazy that the Pats do things like this.  They don't need too.  It also tells me, like the report found, that this probably wasn't the only time New England did this.  Also, the fact that the Pats were caught twice tells me that this is an organization that will do ANYTHING to win.  If that means bending and breaking the rules so be it.  They are the NFL's villain and bully and they have zero problems being seen that way.  I also don't think we know everything the Pats do to cheat.  Raheem Brock came the other day and said "the Pats have been cheating since I got in the league.  It's just one of those things because there is nothing you can do." or something close to that effect.  There is way too much smoke here to think the Pats are squeaky clean like some of their fans would have you believe. 

 

What does this all mean for their legacy I don't know but I do know one thing whenever the debate comes about where they belong the alltime greats someone is going to go "yeah but..." and you never want that attached to your team or favorite player. 

 

We'll see what happens with this because it's not over yet but based on everything I've seen and read the Pats are cheaters and are frankly trying to bully the world into making it go away and not only go away apologize for even suggesting they might have cheated and kiss their rings while they are at it.  That's why people can't stand them.  It's not because people are jealous of them it's because they cheat when they don't need to and act like high school bullies. 

Great post!  Out of likes so this will have to do....

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No don't worry. The rebuttal states that McNally had a needle, and maybe two. So let's just strike the whole 'you can't prove he had a needle' part from our collective consciousness. It's making us dumber. 

But, everyone is dumb but New England.....right?  I'm so confused.  My brain hurts....

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Pats response tells us that the team is not going to pursue legal action. If they were they would not have wanted to lay out their arguemant

 

 

 

So, they're not going to pursue legal action and will eat the penalties.

 

Two paths to that end:

A)  Release an honorable statement saying that, while they don't agree, they are going to put the whole thing behind them, accept the punishment and let everyone move on, regaining some respect.  Then not pursue legal action.

B)  Release an asinine rebuttal with outrageous claims that no one in their right mind would believe, making themselves look like a laughing stock, alienating the rest of the league, and losing all credibility with anyone but Patriots fans.  Then not pursue legal action.

Good choice, Pats.  :thmup:

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Who calibrates the gauges the home team would provide?

 

This whole thing hasn't exactly been handled in a scientific and tamper proof manner up til now. But is that really necessary? Can't teams just not cheat? I don't know why we need to check footballs the way airplanes are checked, or the way medical equipment is checked. 

 

For a league to have specific rules on size weight and air pressure of the footballs, and protocols to make sure they meet that standard before delivery to the field, it seems an oversight not to have a standard and specification on the pressure testing gauges themselves.  There probably is, I just haven't located it yet.

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/ball

 

If gauges can be off by 1/2 psi, It is entirely possible a ball could be declared legal in one game where with a different Ref crew it may not pass.  Now lets be clear I'm not linking this to the Pats case at all.  I just may change my mind and instead of stiffer guidelines on ball handling, I may be for widening the pressure limits to accommodate the QB.  Each QB gets his own set of game prepped balls and isn't forced to use the other QB's . So what's the big deal?  For Next Year. 

 

This year (and a few prior), I see the big deal.

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Pats response tells us that the team is not going to pursue legal action. If they were they would not have wanted to lay out their arguemant

 

I tend to agree with this.   If you were going to go to court, you don't lay out your defense strategy for everyone to see.

 

Not too mention, it's a ridiculous strategy.  I think that rebuttal was exactly what it was....   for public view, hoping to sway public opinion to a favorable opinion of the Pats, only it did just the opposite.

 

Take your punishments, and move forward.

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Omg,...

 

I read the first few paragraphs of the "Partriots Rebuttal"

 

Who cares about the science? The balls were measured, they were not proper, get over it. If you knew of all these scientific weather conditions then you should have properly inflated your balls to compensate for the loss.

 

Even if Brady didn't do it, he still didn't cooperate and neither did the Patriots as a team. All punishment is just.

 

I lose a lot of respect for them for crying about it like toddlers.

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More like 2 hours. He has till 5pm EST...according to espn

 

Patriots QB Tom Brady has not yet filed an appeal of his four-game suspension, a source tells ESPN's Michele Steele. Brady has until 11:59 p.m. ET to appeal his suspension, according to the NFLPA. http://es.pn/1JL10gQ

 

I don't know which is right, but there's a conflict there. 

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I saw one GoFundMe account in a link on a different forum.  It was to pay the Patriots fine and it was over $15K when I clicked on it yesterday or the day before.

Oh I know,   haha  I saw it too, and thought it was utterly ridiculous that people were paying their hard earned money to bail out a billionaire.     That's where this comment came from.  I was "making fun".   :P

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Patriots QB Tom Brady has not yet filed an appeal of his four-game suspension, a source tells ESPN's Michele Steele. Brady has until 11:59 p.m. ET to appeal his suspension, according to the NFLPA. http://es.pn/1JL10gQ

I don't know which is right, but there's a conflict there.

Wierd. I'm watching sportscaster and that's what they just said.

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I saw one GoFundMe account in a link on a different forum.  It was to pay the Patriots fine and it was over $15K when I clicked on it yesterday or the day before.

 

That sickens me.  I wish I could pay a dollar to REMOVE a dollar from that fund...

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Omg,...

 

I read the first few paragraphs of the "Partriots Rebuttal"

 

Who cares about the science? The balls were measured, they were not proper, get over it. If you knew of all these scientific weather conditions then you should have properly inflated your balls to compensate for the loss.

 

Even if Brady didn't do it, he still didn't cooperate and neither did the Patriots as a team. All punishment is just.

 

I lose a lot of respect for them for crying about it like toddlers.

My favorite part about that was that they say the NFL was "generally aware" of the Ideal Gas Law and the effects of it, thus generally aware of the fact that the ball at 12.5 psi would lose pressure when taken outdoor in 20 degree cooler and wet conditions.  Like, let's ignore the comedy and irony in complaining ad nauseam about how the report just arbitrarily reaches the conclusion that Brady was generally aware of wrong doing and in the same report arbitrarily conclude that the NFL had general awareness of scientific principles and the effect on the ball.  If the NFL is generally aware of something, that means the Patriots, by virtue of being 1/32nd of the NFL is also aware.  Meaning, the Patriots knowingly set the footballs at a low deflation level expecting the football to be at a pressure that is not within the acceptable limits.  Is that what brady's attorney is trying to tell us? 

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That sickens me.  I wish I could pay a dollar to REMOVE a dollar from that fund...

I was really hoping that I would have seen a comment where someone had donated a $1 just so tehy could rip on everyone paying the billionaire.  I'd do it, but I'm not wasting my dollar lol.

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My favorite part about that was that they say the NFL was "generally aware" of the Ideal Gas Law and the effects of it, thus generally aware of the fact that the ball at 12.5 psi would lose pressure when taken outdoor in 20 degree cooler and wet conditions.  Like, let's ignore the comedy and irony in complaining ad nauseam about how the report just arbitrarily reaches the conclusion that Brady was generally aware of wrong doing and in the same report arbitrarily conclude that the NFL had general awareness of scientific principles and the effect on the ball.  If the NFL is generally aware of something, that means the Patriots, by virtue of being 1/32nd of the NFL is also aware.  Meaning, the Patriots knowingly set the footballs at a low deflation level expecting the football to be at a pressure that is not within the acceptable limits.  Is that what brady's attorney is trying to tell us? 

My favorite part was the deflator was describing weight loss.   haha   still laughing.

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For a league to have specific rules on size weight and air pressure of the footballs, and protocols to make sure they meet that standard before delivery to the field, it seems an oversight not to have a standard and specification on the pressure testing gauges themselves.  There probably is, I just haven't located it yet.

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/ball

 

If gauges can be off by 1/2 psi, It is entirely possible a ball could be declared legal in one game where with a different Ref crew it may not pass.  Now lets be clear I'm not linking this to the Pats case at all.  I just may change my mind and instead of stiffer guidelines on ball handling, I may be for widening the pressure limits to accommodate the QB.  Each QB gets his own set of game prepped balls and isn't forced to use the other QB's . So what's the big deal?  For Next Year. 

 

This year (and a few prior), I see the big deal.

 

I agree, the protocols and procedures for ensuring compliance should be tightened up. Test the footballs with two calibrated gauges before the game, and record the measurements. Reserve the right to retest the footballs at any point during the game, at the refs' discretion, to ensure compliance. Refs shouldn't set the footballs at 13 PSI 'for conformity,' which the Wells report says some refs admit to doing. The footballs should be moved to the field with the crew chief's approval, by a member of the crew, not a team employee. Etc...

 

At the same time, you can loosen some of the restrictions on PSI. If you want more air than another QB, that's fine. Minimum pressure standards should be maintained at a level deemed appropriate. 

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My favorite part about that was that they say the NFL was "generally aware" of the Ideal Gas Law and the effects of it, thus generally aware of the fact that the ball at 12.5 psi would lose pressure when taken outdoor in 20 degree cooler and wet conditions.  Like, let's ignore the comedy and irony in complaining ad nauseam about how the report just arbitrarily reaches the conclusion that Brady was generally aware of wrong doing and in the same report arbitrarily conclude that the NFL had general awareness of scientific principles and the effect on the ball.  If the NFL is generally aware of something, that means the Patriots, by virtue of being 1/32nd of the NFL is also aware.  Meaning, the Patriots knowingly set the footballs at a low deflation level expecting the football to be at a pressure that is not within the acceptable limits.  Is that what brady's attorney is trying to tell us? 

 

It's shameful that the Patriots have stooped to a level of arrogance that reflects the thinking that they are the league's only NFL team. I have news for the New England Patriots. The league would be entirely fine without you.

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