Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)

[amfootball]

Your book isn't the league, but the league threw the book at your hero.

4 games likely to be reduced to 2 or less is the book? ok.

[jvan1973]

4 games likely to be reduced to 2 or less is the book? ok.

as it stands, its 4

[The Old Crow]

4 games likely to be reduced to 2 or less is the book? ok.

Here is a guy who smugly told the Ravens to read a rule book, and apparently didn't read it himself. Because of what happened with Ray Rice, I think it's likely the four games will stand.

[radiogirl]

Discussing this with NE fans has me just shaking my head. It's one thing to hope Brady get's away with it so your team will be more able to contend. It's another thing when you actually defend his and Kraft's position on this matter. My God , keep it to yourself.Anyway you follow the "path of logic" , it takes you to the same conclusion. I have come to have more disdain for Kraft than I do I do for Brady. And that says a lot. One word.... INSANE

What gets me is the desire for them to display their utter obsession on a Colts Forum site.  Seriously, go play in your own sandbox.

[radiogirl]

4 games likely to be reduced to 2 or less is the book? ok.

I would call a cool million and 2 draft picks a good read.....just sayin......

[21isSuperman]

What gets me is the desire for them to display their utter obsession on a Colts Forum site.  Seriously, go play in your own sandbox.

Everyone is allowed to join on here.  While it's a Colts fan forum, fans of all teams are welcome

[Superman]

I dont think its allright...but I think the fact that this got blown up as much it did is ASTOUNDING. The way the whole thing has been handled is pure junk.

 

So you agree, there is a violation. You just don't like the investigation and the penalties.

 

You are 90% more legit than "others" in this thread. 

[radiogirl]

Everyone is allowed to join on here.  While it's a Colts fan forum, fans of all teams are welcome

Absolutely.  If they don't come onto the site and pick at everyone on the site and take their own word as gospel.  A little humbleness goes a long way and all I see is one person picking at others who don't agree with them.  

[Jason_]

Do you realize the Wells report on page 23 says, "the Patriots provided substantial cooperation throughout the investigation."

 

Do you realize that "substantial" and "complete" are not synonyms?  They do not have the same meanings?

 

And what cover up?

 

The lying, attempting to conceal evidence, refusing to have the ball guys re-interviewed..etc.

 

 

The Wells report was unable to prove anything.

 

 

Incorrect.

 

But I guess the 8 years between spygate and air pressure did not count for the Pats?

 

 

That is correct.

[Jason_]

Everyone is allowed to join on here.  While it's a Colts fan forum, fans of all teams are welcome

 

There is a difference between those who come for actual conversation and debate vs. those that only come here to troll.

[Jason_]

Bingo. There is more incompetence and negligence on the league ... Also means this history that the Pats had of deflating is total baloney.

 

[The Old Crow]

So you agree, there is a violation. You just don't like the investigation and the penalties.

You are 90% more legit than "others" in this thread.

It normally wouldn't have been a big deal, but the organization is a serial offender.

[Superman]

It normally wouldn't have been a big deal, but the organization is a serial offender.

 

1) Prior offense

2) Lied

3) Didn't cooperate

4) Evidence this particular violation has been going on for a long time

[Girlzarefanstoo]

It normally wouldn't have been a big deal, but the organization is a serial offender.

I actually disagree - it would have been a big deal regardless of organization.  It was flat out knowingly, intentionally, secretively breaking the rules A.K.A. Cheating.  

 

Cheating of any kind should be dealt with harshly in order engender fear and compliance and so work towards preserving the integrity of the sport.  

 

However, most other organizations would have been a first time violation and would have had much lesser penalties.

[dw49]

I dont think its allright...but I think the fact that this got blown up as much it did is ASTOUNDING. The way the whole thing has been handled is pure junk.

 

Are you talking about the way Brady and Kraft have lied and misrepresented or the independent investigation conducted by Wells. Seems strange that Kraft never objected to Swells doing the investigation . It's not that he was an "unknown commodity " at the time he was appointed. Also do you find it a little strange that Kraft seems to trust Wells as a fair investigator as he said something to the effect that they (NE) would abide by the findings of the report and take whatever punishment if any was handed out. He has a right to say the punishment was excessive but very disingenuous to say now that Wells is unfair.   Thoughts ?

[Nadine]

Ok. How much? 5 percent? 10 percent? If you want to show me one team that is completely clean in all areas than I will come over and sulk but honestly all teams have dings and blemishes. In the grand scheme of offenses, the Pats infractions are the most benign yet the most over blown in the media age we live in.

But, the thing for me is that you are generally outraged by any little offense by anyone else but never the Pats.

So, I think rather than conjuring a comparison you just look head on at what's going on in the organization.

[Restored]

Who said that? We are talking about how I should feel.  My feelings as it pertains to professional sports is not one where I look at teams and look for perfection or a clean record and if I don't find it then I condemn their accomplishments. If we do that then the Ravens and Seahawks past two championships are stained as much if not more so than the Pats. And sorry but I don't feel that way about those teams or my team.

 

My point clearly went over your head. You are insinuating that because every other team has had some sort of blemish or wrongdoing in its history, it gives the Patriots a pass. It's the same flawed logic you've used over and over to try and compensate for the Patriots cheating and getting caught.

 

"BUT OFFICER, EVERYONE ELSE SPEEDS TOO!"

[dw49]

My point clearly went over your head. You are insinuating that because every other team has had some sort of blemish or wrongdoing in its history, it gives the Patriots a pass. It's the same flawed logic you've used over and over to try and compensate for the Patriots cheating and getting caught.

 

"BUT OFFICER, EVERYONE ELSE SPEEDS TOO!"

 

 

Not necessarily one of AM's favorites but the one I like that even the talking heads use is "it didn't matter if the balls were messed with as the Pats stomped the Colts." 

[amfootball]

But, the thing for me is that you are generally outraged by any little offense by anyone else but never the Pats.

So, I think rather than conjuring a comparison you just look head on at what's going on in the organization.

Example?  I never get riled up by league offenses (check my posts on the Browns and Falcons punishments). I could have cared less. The off-field stuff has been different as some of the offense this year have been heinous but what has bothered me more is the league handling of them. And now to have the league come down like this on my team for ball deflation just does not sit well.

[dynasty13]

So you agree, there is a violation. You just don't like the investigation and the penalties.

 

You are 90% more legit than "others" in this thread. 

 

I have said since the beginning that it is clear...lets say more probably than not....that something funny is going on. My criticism has always been that Brady's involvement and therefor his guilt was not proven and all based on assumptions. My criticism has always been the reaction of many who think we are *s for having the audacity to question the assumptions that were made. And my criticism stemming from that is now the punishment. I don't like the way the whole situation went down and I dont think I'm crazy for saying that. I think the punishment was ridiculous...that may change if something is proven...but at the moment I think the NFL is listening to the noise instead of the report and the inconsistencies that they have shown is troubling me.

 

I have not changed that perspective since day one. It's gotten crazy around here and as a member for over a decade here I've never seen it this bad.

[dw49]

I have said since the beginning that it is clear...lets say more probably than not....that something funny is going on. My criticism has always been that Brady's involvement and therefor his guilt was not proven and all based on assumptions. My criticism has always been the reaction of many who think we are *s for having the audacity to question the assumptions that were made. And my criticism stemming from that is now the punishment. I don't like the way the whole situation went down and I dont think I'm crazy for saying that. I think the punishment was ridiculous...that may change if something is proven...but at the moment I think the NFL is listening to the noise instead of the report and the inconsistencies that they have shown is troubling me.

 

I have not changed that perspective since day one. It's gotten crazy around here and as a member for over a decade here I've never seen it this bad.

 

 

I'm proud of you for the e i thing. I used to make the same error.

[amfootball]

I have said since the beginning that it is clear...lets say more probably than not....that something funny is going on. My criticism has always been that Brady's involvement and therefor his guilt was not proven and all based on assumptions. My criticism has always been the reaction of many who think we are *s for having the audacity to question the assumptions that were made. And my criticism stemming from that is now the punishment. I don't like the way the whole situation went down and I dont think I'm crazy for saying that. I think the punishment was ridiculous...that may change if something is proven...but at the moment I think the NFL is listening to the noise instead of the report and the inconsistencies that they have shown is troubling me.

 

I have not changed that perspective since day one. It's gotten crazy around here and as a member for over a decade here I've never seen it this bad.

Pretty much my exact take as well ...

[Superman]

I have said since the beginning that it is clear...lets say more probably than not....that something funny is going on. My criticism has always been that Brady's involvement and therefor his guilt was not proven and all based on assumptions. My criticism has always been the reaction of many who think we are *s for having the audacity to question the assumptions that were made. And my criticism stemming from that is now the punishment. I don't like the way the whole situation went down and I dont think I'm crazy for saying that. I think the punishment was ridiculous...that may change if something is proven...but at the moment I think the NFL is listening to the noise instead of the report and the inconsistencies that they have shown is troubling me.

 

I have not changed that perspective since day one. It's gotten crazy around here and as a member for over a decade here I've never seen it this bad.

 

We're never going to see eye to eye on most of this stuff, but to the bolded, what's "day one"? 

[Girlzarefanstoo]

From the interview with Ted Wells today.  Which, by the way, only happened because of Brady's lawyer calling him out as not independent.  Otherwise he would have been quiet and let his report stand for itself.  Here's a couple key nuggets:

 

» "I believe the conclusions have been proven. I used the words 'more probable than not' because that is what's in the rules."

 

» "When the Colts made the complaint, no one at the league office took the complaint seriously. (The NFL) flipped the complaint by email to the operations people so they knew about it. They told the refs. ... There was no sting operation."

 

» Wells' final point to reporters: "What drove the decision in this report was one thing, it was the evidence. And I could not ethically ignore the importance and relevancy of those text messages and the other evidence. I mean the notion that (Jim) McNally is referring to himself as 'The Deflator' before the season starts and threatened them that he had not gone to ESPN yet, no one can ignore the implications of that text message and no one can see it as a joke, and nor is it circumstantial evidence. It is direct evidence and it is important."

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492361/article/wells-bradys-agent-wrong-to-criticize-my-integrity

 

Highlights are my own.

[dynasty13]

We're never going to see eye to eye on most of this stuff, but to the bolded, what's "day one"? 

 

When I read the report and was able to form an opinion based on something other than what color my uniform is.

[Superman]

Pretty much my exact take as well ...

 

No it isn't. Your response these last six days has been incredibly unseemly.

[Superman]

When I read the report and was able to form an opinion based on something other than what color my uniform is.

 

Okay, so not January 19th. You're talking about after the report came out. Got it.

 

I think my post from earlier addresses most of what else you said in the previous post. I do think it takes homer glasses to take the stance you're taking, but that's not really surprising. And there's a big difference between homer glasses and what AM is doing.

[dynasty13]

Okay, so not January 19th. You're talking about after the report came out. Got it.

 

I think my post from earlier addresses most of what else you said in the previous post. I do think it takes homer glasses to take the stance you're taking, but that's not really surprising. And there's a big difference between homer glasses and what AM is doing.

 

Listen...I've never been one to hide around here when things aren't going my way. The same way most think I'm just being a homer for questioning certain things about the report, I could easily say that most Colts fans are being homers too with their inability to see a single thing wrong with the report and the subsequent punishment. I could easily point to the hate for the Patriots and make a case that it is clouding objectivity in the same way that many will say that to me for my love of the Patriots. It's just one of those things that people on different sides wont see eye to eye on.

 

I could do without the 'what's in the water up in Boston' or 'what's wrong with the education system up there' or 'you all have a low iq' comments...but hey, it is what is it. This isn't even close to over and it will be interesting to see what comes from it. My only point all along was that it isnt that crazy to question.

[Mouthfire]

1) Prior offense

2) Lied

3) Didn't cooperate

4) Evidence this particular violation has been going on for a long time

Here's kind of the kicker to it all: if Brady didn't believe it would effect game outcomes, if he didn't believe it would effect his legacy at all, then he would have just owned up to it and said "yeah, okay... I did it. My bad, it won't happen again." That's not what happened. Instead, he did exactly what you stated. He lied, he obstructed, and he obfuscated.

So, Brady obviously thinks that it effects his legacy. It's just interesting to note that the only people who don't think so are a few Pats fans.

[Moose Of Woe]

[csmopar]

There is a difference between those who come for actual conversation and debate vs. those that only come here to troll.

I agree.

Earlier in this thread, the mods warned all posters to watch it on the inciting behavior type posts...yet we keep seeing inciting behavior from one particular poster. Even against her fellow pats fans, who are also on here.

To me, this has moved far beyond a discussion or disagreement about the topic at hand and in to just trolling and trying to get others riled up. eventually this topic is gonna get locked and we won't be able to actually have a meaningful discussion with those such as member GoPats, whos been professional and polite throughout.

[Superman]

Listen...I've never been one to hide around here when things aren't going my way. The same way most think I'm just being a homer for questioning certain things about the report, I could easily say that most Colts fans are being homers too with their inability to see a single thing wrong with the report and the subsequent punishment. I could easily point to the hate for the Patriots and make a case that it is clouding objectivity in the same way that many will say that to me for my love of the Patriots. It's just one of those things that people on different sides wont see eye to eye on.

 

I could do without the 'what's in the water up in Boston' or 'what's wrong with the education system up there' or 'you all have a low iq' comments...but hey, it is what is it. This isn't even close to over and it will be interesting to see what comes from it. My only point all along was that it isnt that crazy to question.

 

You've been upstanding, despite the fact that I disagree with you on this. I didn't appreciate a lot of your posts (and other Pats fans) in the threads shortly after the investigation started. But since the report came out, you haven't been a wild-eyed crazy person, and I appreciate that.

 

AM is making your fan base look bad, though. Seriously. And any other comments to the effect of 'if you don't agree with me, you're biased,' aren't a good representation, either.

[csmopar]

Absolutely. If they don't come onto the site and pick at everyone on the site and take their own word as gospel. A little humbleness goes a long way and all I see is one person picking at others who don't agree with them.

Ding ding.

[OffensivelyPC]

You've been upstanding, despite the fact that I disagree with you on this. I didn't appreciate a lot of your posts (and other Pats fans) in the threads shortly after the investigation started. But since the report came out, you haven't been a wild-eyed crazy person, and I appreciate that.

 

AM is making your fan base look bad, though. Seriously. And any other comments to the effect of 'if you don't agree with me, you're biased,' aren't a good representation, either.

At least ViriLudant has been quiet.  That's a win in my book.  

[BullsColtsFan1]

At least ViriLudant has been quiet.  That's a win in my book.  

You dang well know he's not going to admit to being wrong lol

[amfootball]

You've been upstanding, despite the fact that I disagree with you on this. I didn't appreciate a lot of your posts (and other Pats fans) in the threads shortly after the investigation started. But since the report came out, you haven't been a wild-eyed crazy person, and I appreciate that.

 

AM is making your fan base look bad, though. Seriously. And any other comments to the effect of 'if you don't agree with me, you're biased,' aren't a good representation, either.

Nice personal shot there ... it has been shocking to the Pats fans some of the posts by Colts fans as Dynasty pointed out that remain and not be removed. For sure the saddest point on these boards since the 2 years I have been here ...

[Superman]

Nice personal shot there ... it has been shocking to the Pats fans some of the posts by Colts fans as Dynasty pointed out that remain and not be removed. For sure the saddest point on these boards since the 2 years I have been here ...

 

You get zero sympathy from me. No one has made you post in the manner you have since Thursday. 

[amfootball]

You get zero sympathy from me. No one has made you post in the manner you have since Thursday. 

Why the cheap shot then? At least have the decency to PM me. I had no idea you had any issue with my stances on this topic since last week ...

[csmopar]

You get zero sympathy from me. No one has made you post in the manner you have since Thursday.

I agree Superman.

I'll admit, I sent a few zingers as well in response to am's posts. But I don't think I've seen a single, constructive post by her in over a week

[csmopar]

Why the cheap shot then? At least have the decency to PM me. I had no idea you had any issue with my stances on this topic since last week ...

it's not your stances so to speak but the manner in which you speak of them and the flat out denial tone and unwillingness to do anything but argue and insult those that don't share the same stance, as you've done all week. It's beyond being argumentative at this point.