Pagano deserves respect (Merge)

[GAColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, jchandler7 said:

Pagano did a fine job tonight. I thought going for it on the 4th downs was the right calls considering the steelers offense definately have an upper hand on our defense.  However,  I was not a fan of the offensive play calling at all. It was so obvious every time they called a running play. Right up the gut for a yard or 2. I called it every time and I'm just a common fan. Why do we NEVER run outside the tackles? It sure didn't help our receivers couldn't catch a cold today,  they dropped WAY to many passes. I felt bad for Tolzein,  our line was garbage as well,  he got hit on about every pass attempt. Talent is an obvious issue. 

 I agree. They ran Turbin outside 1 time and he gained like 7 yards when it was still a game.

[tfunky14]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Yep you are one of them

Correct, finally someone who sees the light. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Pagano and the staff did a fine with the players they had

[snkdy]

Multiple trips to the redzone with zero points killed us. We left at least 17 points on the board which is unacceptable but a lot of that was on the receivers and not the coaching staff. I do appreciate the aggressive playcalling and I hope it continues when Luck returns. The defense's performance does deserve to be criticized but within limits given our lack of talent. 

[JMichael557]

Pagans has to go.  Sit on 2nd row behind team.  It is clear that they do not respect the coaches.  Their was zero concern or sense of commitment.  The decision to single cover Brown was terrible coaching. The o-line is a mess. They Wiff on blocks on a regular basis. The coordination of defense is bad. We are going nowhere with this staff. 

[FanFromtheWasteland]

38 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

So five years into their regime, we should be happy that we lost 28-7 and our defense gave up 3 TDs to one receiver?  The defense has plenty of holes, the OL is a mess, Pagano has a defensive background and we should be happy with his coaching despite our defense ranking towards the bottom of the league in many categories?

I don't understand this either 21S. I swear that if we were 0-11 right now there would still be poster on here saying " don't give up hope. We still have a chance"

[IinD]

31 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

I don't understand this either 21S. I swear that if we were 0-11 right now there would still be poster on here saying " don't give up hope. We still have a chance"

Gotta just pass those posts by honestly.

 

There's some that could defend that 0-11 of yours for years.

 

This team can't simply just be an average .500 team. That's what it is.

 

No reason we can't enjoy bits, but overall they let you down more often than not.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

1 hour ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Good Ol Moral Victory. Lets celebrate not getting blown out too bad. While we are at it, let's give props to an underwhelming coach.

Start engraving those participation trophies

[IMissMarvin]

How about having Eric Walden running 20 yards downfield trying to cover tight ends? In what world should this ever happen? We should celebrate not getting blown out too bad? By NFL standards 21 points is a pretty big beatdown. After a decade plus of excellece how can you guys have such low standards? 

[Colts_Fan12]

38 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

I don't understand this either 21S. I swear that if we were 0-11 right now there would still be poster on here saying " don't give up hope. We still have a chance"

Whole hell of a lot more then just 1 lol

[John Waylon]

So five years into their regime, we should be happy that we lost 28-7 and our defense gave up 3 TDs to one receiver?  The defense has plenty of holes, the OL is a mess, Pagano has a defensive background and we should be happy with his coaching despite our defense ranking towards the bottom of the league in many categories?

I wish I could bathe in this post.

*

[John Waylon]

So five years into their regime, we should be happy that we lost 28-7 and our defense gave up 3 TDs to one receiver?  The defense has plenty of holes, the OL is a mess, Pagano has a defensive background and we should be happy with his coaching despite our defense ranking towards the bottom of the league in many categories?

And just for the sake of transparency I feel obligated to point out that this phenomenon isn't new or unique. It's been a staple of his entire tenure here.

Yeah yeah yeah, grigson hasn't gotten him pro bowlers to put on the field. I'll save you the time of arguing that.

He's still failed to make the best of what he's had.

*

[gacoop1]

Grigs and Pags need to go.  Start fresh with a new set of eyes.  We can see the team is in disarray with their defense being old and can't rush the passer and all.  The offense is just not performing, that's why Luck was on the sideline today....No SuperBowl for the next ten years if you keep Pags and Grigs, bank on that....

[grmasterb]

The Colts are soft. I blame coaching for that.

[cbear]

Nothing to complain about in this game. 

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, Imrryr said:

This game has given me a respect for paganos coaching. The fact that with the tables tilted so far against us we still did compete and moderately well shows that if we had just a tidbit more talent wed be golden. Im still for firing grigson but i definetly do not think we could do much better than pags...now let me be crucified

He had some nice plays yet he still let the Steelers kill them with Brown by leaving him in single coverage for the third straight time.  This tells me he sees what he wants to see rather than what's going on.

 

Also three plays inside the one all came out of the gun including emptying the backfield once.  At least make them think it will be a run, this has been something the Colts do way too much in short yardage situations.  

 

You can can also argue they should have taken the old Dungy moto of take the points on fourth down.  If they kick field goals there rather than going for it it's 21-13 and a one score game in the fourth quarter.

 

i also think it's fair to ask why does this team preform and seem to have better plans without Andrew than with?  Last year they were 2-5 with him and 6-3 without.  Tonight they looked to play better than normal at times to the point you think if you get that effort with Andrew you probably win, yet this team doesn't seem to get that effort with him for some reason.

 

Also we still saw the little mistakes like trying to run before catching the ball which lead to huge drops.  That's lack of focus and that goes back to coaching.  

 

Yes they had some clever play calls and a better effort overal than we are used to seeing but there were still some major coaching flaws tonight and they are the same ones we have seen for years that aren't changing.

[Malakai432]

4 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

So five years into their regime, we should be happy that we lost 28-7 and our defense gave up 3 TDs to one receiver?  The defense has plenty of holes, the OL is a mess, Pagano has a defensive background and we should be happy with his coaching despite our defense ranking towards the bottom of the league in many categories?

 

Yeah Super, but you forgot every game is a dogfight man, it's incredibly difficult to win in the NFL.  No team wins in the NFL, it just doesn't happen. 

[stitches]

Yes, that's the best description of Pagano's tenure "we competed moderately well" ... bottom line is - not good enough... not specifically about this game, but overall...

[bluephantom87]

Coaching is a MAJOR issue with this team ALONG with talent! How many times have the Colts played the Steelers under Chuck and keep singling Brown in coverage? Davis was beaten last week over the top for a long td pass with NO safety help in the Titan game. I don't know if Davis is hurt or not (if so.. even more of a reason for help) but opposing coaching staffs will watch game film and attack a team's tendencies or weakness. I have NO problem with the Colts going for it on the 4th downs BUT the playcalling stunk. I guess Chuck wanted to PROVE he could play smash mouth football up the gut against the Steelers with the o-line getting no push.

 

Less than MEDIOCRITY has become the norm for the Colts now. Look at the teams they've beaten right now and ALL have a losing record and let's not forget the embarrassing loss to the LOWLY Jags who look like a TOTAL mess to say the least!! Now some want to give Chuck ANOTHER pass because we didn't get blown out by a 5-5 Steeler team who has LOOKED bad for much of the season?

 

Coaching has ALWAYS been about utilizing and DEVELOPING while maximizing talent at hand to game plan from week to week to attack or put your team in the BEST possible scenario to WIN games period! Someone asked in another post was it time to cut Dorsett and the answer is no because a team like the Pats would swoop him up and turn him into the next Welker or Woodhead utilizing his speed on quick slants. I wasn't a fan of the pick considering all the needs of this team THEN and NOW which brings me to the point that it's time for Irsay to part ways with Chuck AND Grigs before Luck's career is cut short due to injuries because the hits are starting to take its toll on the ONE MAN GANG!!

[Defjamz26]

10 hours ago, KB said:

He has made some dumb coaching mistakes but he is becoming a better head coach. Honestly I think the same about grigson. he has gotten better each year. They won't be cut after this season no matter what, nor do I think they should be. If Gregson dosnt do well this offseason then we will be in a world of hurt and he should be let go, but I honestly think this will be a third good draft in a row and the defense will look alot better by mid next season (gotta give the rookies time to acclimate). Pagano will continue to fit better as well. Tonight's game had its flaws like not doubling brown with Davis and butler or not scoring on the one yard line twice, but he will get better.

3rd good draft in a row? The first 2 picks from 2015 are busts. Landon Collins is having a pro bowl year and we passed on him. Granted Geathers is alright.

 

2016 is a bunch of unprovens so it's hard to say how good anyone is. Granted Kelly has played well.

 

But the past 2 drafts haven't netted any game changers or franchise players except Kelly and Anderson was a stud before his injury.

[deedub75]

11 hours ago, KB said:

He has made some dumb coaching mistakes but he is becoming a better head coach. Honestly I think the same about grigson. he has gotten better each year. They won't be cut after this season no matter what, nor do I think they should be. If Gregson dosnt do well this offseason then we will be in a world of hurt and he should be let go, but I honestly think this will be a third good draft in a row and the defense will look alot better by mid next season (gotta give the rookies time to acclimate). Pagano will continue to fit better as well. Tonight's game had its flaws like not doubling brown with Davis and butler or not scoring on the one yard line twice, but he will get better.

 

I don't think either one of them got better.  They were both forced into doing things differently or they would have been fired after last season.  Irsay gave them an ultimatum and tied them at the hip.  Neither learned from their mistakes.  Grigson is drafting like he should have in year one and he is only doing so out of desperation.  Pagano is coaching out of desperation.  That's not learning from your mistakes and improving.  

[UKColt13]

I'm on the fence about Pagano. Since he isn't a playcaller on either end, or a HC/GM who does the draft and FA, he's very difficult to assess.

 

The only time you notice something he does its when he does something wrong? If the Saints O screws up then its Sean Payton's fault. If the Greenbay O screws up its McCarthy's fault.

 

The only huge things I've seen against Pagano is 1. He's soft and; 2. He's a poor clock manager.  

 

I wouldn't be against firing him because I think we have a culture problem in our team and that needs to be fixed from the top down i.e. a complete clear out and rehire.

 

But I also wouldn't complain if he and the coordinators (and Schotty) were retained and Grigs was replaced, to see what he can do with some actual talent on the team.

 

If both need to go then fine, if its an either/or situation. Grigs needs to go first.

[AZColt11]

Respect or not, it's time to go.  I like Chuck.  Great guy.  But his time as a head coach in the NFL is over IMHO. 

[Corndog]

I really don't think Pagano is great coach, especially for a team that at this point we expect to be winning division titles and contending in the playoffs.  

 

But for whatever reason, he seems to do better being the underdog.  I liked the aggressive offensive play calling, the fake punt and going for it on fourth down several times. 

 

Personally, I think he is more suited for a team with lower expectations and being the gritty underdog coach than where the Colts should be at this point in Luck's career.  Although, I don't think the failure is completely his fault, Grigson has been very disappointing as well and he should be replaced in the offseason. 

[superrep1967]

13 hours ago, MTC said:

You're happy that we're down 21 points? Poor defense and slow start. Pagano has to go.

I agree !

[coltsfeva]

I said before the game, that if the Colts should lose, the season is far from over. The Colts have three winnable games before the tough test at Oakland and the Jags at home to finish out the season.                                   I haven't seen a lot of posts about how depleted the Colts are. That has to factor in to the equation. If they can start playing like they did against Green Bay, they can get on a roll and win the division. 

[MarlySullivan]

Hire Mike Singletary....I don't know exactly why i feel this way, but something about him makes me think he could right the ship.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Our fan base mind set is slowly beginning to resemble the Cleveland browns mind set.

How sad.

[BullsColtsFan1]

This game wasn't on the coach.  I thought he called a good game.  That was about the only bright spot.  I am glad he had the balls to go for it on both fourth downs in the redzone.  The defense started off bad especially Vontae, but they picked it up for 3 quarters.  Receivers dropped way to many passes, they weren't really helping Tolzien out.  I still can't believe he slipped and didn't score on that 3rd down scramble.  I loved the fake punt call too.  Hopefully Luck and Geathers are back next week.  Hopefully Rob, T.Y., Good, Kelly and Vontae are ok.  Lets not freak out though, this was pretty much a guaranteed loss without Luck.  Lets hope the Chargers help us out Sunday and nothing's hurt.  Texans have a pretty tough schedule.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

Our fan base mind set is slowly beginning to resemble the Cleveland browns mind set.

How sad.

Yeah a lot of people just block out we have the 2nd most wins in the Regular Season since the Division realignment in 2002, 4 Title Game Appearances (1 with Luck, Chuck, Grigs), 2 SB appearances, and a World Championship but they have been BROWN'd apparently . God forbid us having 1 or 2 seasons that are mediocre as that is against the law by some fans standards. Too many people are spoiled entitled fans. Only the Patriots (which is 1 team out of 32 has been Very Good to Great every season since the Division realignment), even the Steelers have missed the Playoffs a few times over these years of 2002-2015. Hardly no team has our complete resume since the realignment in 2002 and only the Pats, Steelers, and Giants have won more SB's. 

[deedub75]

2 hours ago, Corndog said:

I really don't think Pagano is great coach, especially for a team that at this point we expect to be winning division titles and contending in the playoffs.  

 

But for whatever reason, he seems to do better being the underdog.  I liked the aggressive offensive play calling, the fake punt and going for it on fourth down several times. 

 

Personally, I think he is more suited for a team with lower expectations and being the gritty underdog coach than where the Colts should be at this point in Luck's career.  Although, I don't think the failure is completely his fault, Grigson has been very disappointing as well and he should be replaced in the offseason. 

 

That's desperation coaching. 

[coltsfeva]

1 hour ago, deedub75 said:

 

That's desperation coaching. 

Desperate times call for desperate measures- Take 6 starters away from most teams and you will get mediocrity At least the Colts fought despite the circumstances-

[deedub75]

1 hour ago, coltsfeva said:

Desperate times call for desperate measures- Take 6 starters away from most teams and you will get mediocrity At least the Colts fought despite the circumstances-

 

He's trying to save his job.  That's the desperation.  The team was mediocre at best even at full strength.  Then you add in a mediocre coach and mediocre GM and this on this field is what you have after almost 5 years of work.  

[#12.]

4 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

Our fan base mind set is slowly beginning to resemble the Cleveland browns mind set.

How sad.

Collinsworth was speaking about us like we're the Browns or Jaguars.  We're on the verge of being blown out by 3 TDs:  "The Colts played hard here tonight.  God bless 'em".  

 

It's November 2016.  It's almost impossible to believe we were in the AFC Championship game in early 2015 and were the hot Super Bowl pick just a little over a year ago.  Seems like a lifetime ago.

 

 

[deedub75]

5 minutes ago, #12. said:

Collinsworth was speaking about us like we're the Browns or Jaguars.  We're on the verge of being blown out by 3 TDs:  "The Colts played hard here tonight.  God bless 'em".  

 

It's November 2016.  It's almost impossible to believe we were in the AFC Championship game in early 2015 and were the hot Super Bowl pick just a little over a year ago.  Seems like a lifetime ago.

 

 

 

I couldn't understand why we were the hot Super Bowl pick then.  I saw an aging 2014 roster get a year older and then they added more aging players near the end of their careers. I didn't see a team that could win the Super Bowl or win long term for that matter. 

[#12.]

9 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

I couldn't understand why we were the hot Super Bowl pick then.  I saw an aging 2014 roster get a year older and then they added more aging players near the end of their careers. I didn't see a team that could win the Super Bowl or win long term for that matter. 

 

Obviously it would have been a flawed team at best, but many fell for the idea of a super offense with Gore and Johnson.  Johnson, however, was washed up, and the O-line still couldn't block anyone, ending Luck's season prematurely.  Fast forward 12 months... same crap.

[RockThatBlue]

While Pags was a bit more aggressive than usual, the play calling on short yardage situations was abysmal (besides the fake punt)

 

Also letting Vontae go 1 on 1 with AB was a terrible idea. 

 

Big Ben and AB must get good laughs at our coaching staff behind closed doors with how easy they have it year after year.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

On 11/25/2016 at 1:33 AM, grmasterb said:

The Colts are soft. I blame coaching for that.

 

You know there was a time when training camp and practices were the second hardest physically and mentally after boot camp. 

 

Thats what hat I was led to believe. That football wasn't for a sissy. But now if you have skill then by all means. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 11/24/2016 at 9:24 PM, achcolts said:

I agree OP. We didn't get crushed as bad as it seemed. I do notice that pags has been getting much better with coaching and seems like we are atelast trying to game plan specific to our opponent 

 

I don't completely disagree, but having a CB with a bum ankle single cover Antonio Brown the entire first half was just baffling.

[tncoltsfan57]

I've read all the posts and I'm amazed any of you are standing by Pagano's side. He is an absolute joke of a head coach, from the coaching personnel to the decisions on game day. Grigson is an * that sold a doped up owner a bill of goods....a "monster". Anyone who doesn't say they both needed to be fired last year much less nearly a year of mediocre football at best against sub .500 teams has not been watching the games or you're living under a rock somewhere. These two losers should have been gone long ago. There is absolutely no other conclusion "Fire them Now" instead of "Lock her Up".