Colts interested in Clowney

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I appreciate that you prefer Clowney to Ngakoue.   Depending on the money,  I'd be fine with either.

 

But, in an attempt to write a pro-Clowney post,  you omitted key stats....

 

So, for example...    Ngakoue has 6.5 MORE career sacks in 4 years than Clowney does in 6 years.     That's a big discrepency.

 

Here are Clowney's six years:   0, 4, 6, 9.5, 9 and 3.    That's 31.5 career sacks.

 

Here are Ngakoue's numbers:   8, 12, 9.5 and 8.       That's 37.5 career sacks in 2 LESS years.

 

Ngakoue has never had a seasonal sack number that wouldn't be acceptable to any team.   Clowney has had 4 years where his number would not meet expectations. 

 

Honestly,   I think both will sign for a number that Ballard will not be willing to pay.   The bidding will spiral as it did last year and at some point,  Ballard will drop out.

 

I'm just saying I don't think the picture is quite as one sided as you might suggest.

 

Clowneys Missed his first year due to injury and missed games other years with injuries. I am not saying that Ngakoue isn't good, Clowney when healthy  is a beast who commands double teams, causes a lot of head aches for the defense, and provides a lot of pressures if not sacks.

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Clowneys Missed his first year due to injury and missed games other years with injuries. I am not saying that Ngakoue isn't good, Clowney when healthy  is a beast who commands double teams, causes a lot of head aches for the defense, and provides a lot of pressures if not sacks.

Yes...   I like Clowney.   I don’t dislike him.    I’m just saying there was more to like about Ngokoue than was originally stated.  
 

And again...  I’d be fine with either.  But I still suspect we will be outbid for both.    I’d love to be wrong. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yes...   I like Clowney.   I don’t dislike him.    I’m just saying there was more to like about Ngokoue than was originally stated.  
 

And again...  I’d be fine with either.  But I still suspect we will be outbid for both.    I’d love to be wrong. 

I would love you to be wrong to.  But your probably right on the money though!!

[r a y s k i]

On 3/2/2020 at 8:04 PM, boo2202 said:

Ok let me rephrase that. A portion of the cap has been misused due jacobys extension. Then add the dead cap hit of licks retirement this year is a lot for what we’re getting from the position. There’s going to be some cash spread out over the next 2-3 years on Leonard, Smith, and Nelson for sure. I hope turay keeps coming along, his name will be added to the list. 

I have no problem with the contract of Jacoby, this is the way the league is going and 20 mill for a reasonable starter at the position I'm okay with. I see a lot of people being unhappy with it but I think it might not be a great deal but it definitely isn't a bad deal for us. 

[John Waylon]

 

Eh. Lot more hype than substance. 

[shasta519]

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I appreciate that you prefer Clowney to Ngakoue.   Depending on the money,  I'd be fine with either.

 

But, in an attempt to write a pro-Clowney post,  you omitted key stats....

 

So, for example...    Ngakoue has 6.5 MORE career sacks in 4 years than Clowney does in 6 years.     That's a big discrepency.

 

Here are Clowney's six years:   0, 4, 6, 9.5, 9 and 3.    That's 31.5 career sacks.

 

Here are Ngakoue's numbers:   8, 12, 9.5 and 8.       That's 37.5 career sacks in 2 LESS years.

 

Ngakoue has never had a seasonal sack number that wouldn't be acceptable to any team.   Clowney has had 4 years where his number would not meet expectations. 

 

Honestly,   I think both will sign for a number that Ballard will not be willing to pay.   The bidding will spiral as it did last year and at some point,  Ballard will drop out.

 

I'm just saying I don't think the picture is quite as one sided as you might suggest.

 

 

I think fan preference is pretty one-sided toward Ngakoue...understandably given his age and career thus far. People say Clowney is a not a good pass rusher...likely because he's not a double digit sack guy. But I was just pointing out that Ngakoue has only been that once. I am not saying Clowney is a better pass rusher (he's not)...just that Ngakoue isn't so much better that we ignore what else Clowney brings to the table. 

 

Clowney was hurt his first two years...so for comparisons sake...I prefer to look at the past four seasons for each. Ngakoue is definitely more productive from a pass rushing standpoint over that time frame...but that gap wasn't that far until this past season. And Clowney is more productive in other categories.

 

I would happily take either player...I just think Clowney is much more realistic.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I think fan preference is pretty one-sided toward Ngakoue...understandably given his age and career thus far. People say Clowney is a not a good pass rusher...likely because he's not a double digit sack guy. But I was just pointing out that Ngakoue has only been that once. I am not saying Clowney is a better pass rusher (he's not)...just that Ngakoue isn't so much better that we ignore what else Clowney brings to the table. 

 

Clowney was hurt his first two years...so for comparisons sake...I prefer to look at the past four seasons for each. Ngakoue is definitely more productive from a pass rushing standpoint over that time frame...but that gap wasn't that far until this past season. And Clowney is more productive in other categories.

 

I would happily take either player...I just think Clowney is much more realistic.

 

 

The gap wasn’t that far this past season?   Really?   8 vs 3.   Not that far?

 

I agree there are other stats that may reflect well for Clowney....  QBs hits and pressures.  I’m not trying to ignore Clowney skill level.   I like him.   Be happy if we could sign him.

 

Again, I anticipate both guys signing for more than CB will ever pay.  It appears the Jags will tag Ngokwe.  So this discussion may ultimately prove to be academic.  

[MikeCurtis]

Clowney would add another rusher, that could come from all DL positions on 3rd down

 

His activity, splitting the blocks and causing havoc on running downs is almost unmatched in the NFL

 

If we were tight on cap.....I wouldn’t consider

 

We have some room

 

He would contribute at LDE immediately, and be great in a rotation

[ColtJax]

We'll end up with Vic Beasley for 10 million on a one year contract, just watch. NO WAY would I trade a draft pick to the Jags for Ngakoue AND have to pay him over 22 million per year! He turned down the Jags 20 million a year saying it wasn't enough, no way is a one trick pony that played on the line with great talent and got destroyed when teams ran at him worth close to that!!

[Dark Superman]

I would be all in on Clowney.

[Jdubu]

On 3/4/2020 at 2:52 PM, ColtJax said:

We'll end up with Vic Beasley for 10 million on a one year contract, just watch. NO WAY would I trade a draft pick to the Jags for Ngakoue AND have to pay him over 22 million per year! He turned down the Jags 20 million a year saying it wasn't enough, no way is a one trick pony that played on the line with great talent and got destroyed when teams ran at him worth close to that!!

These athletes turning down 20 million are either a ploy to squeeze every last penny they can or plain stupid. I’d rather the owners collude and agree never to pay over xxxx for any specific position, regardless of the player. Let them sit out if they want and put in the next guy who wants to play. I’m absolutely sick of seeing a rich player say 10, 15, 20, 30, 35 million isn’t enough per year in compensation to play a rough game of football. Just stop the insanity already. 

[CanuckColt]

Clowney has been injured wayyyyyy too much....we should probably take a pass on him unless he signs for a LOT less than market value.

[richard pallo]

I just read where the Seahawks have reassigned Clowney's number 90 back to the player he purchased it from when he joined the Seahawks last year.  Conspiracy theory:  The Seahawks are no longer pursuing him and that would leave the Titans and Colts as most likely landing spots.  

[Dogg63]

I don't see Ballard paying crazy $$ for Clowney, and I doubt Clowney signs for anything below crazy $$. I dunno, maybe he's tempered his expectations now that he finds himself still a FA after the draft is over. Or maybe he waits until a DE goes down in training camp and that team's now in a bind...and has to pay his king's ransom.

[Hoose]

A one year prove it deal? At a non crazy price? Not the worst thing in the world. 

[Four2itus]

Please....make it die.....

[aaron11]

colts, titans and eagles are the only good teams left with 20 million in cap space 

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Dogg63 said:

I don't see Ballard paying crazy $$ for Clowney, and I doubt Clowney signs for anything below crazy $$. I dunno, maybe he's tempered his expectations now that he finds himself still a FA after the draft is over. Or maybe he waits until a DE goes down in training camp and that team's now in a bind...and has to pay his king's ransom.

I think we all should know by now that Ballard will not overpay for anyone.  

 

45 minutes ago, Hoose said:

A one year prove it deal? At a non crazy price? Not the worst thing in the world. 

Ballard is great at these one year prove it deals.  If Clowney is looking to make an impact on a championship contending team and earn a bigger contract the Colts should be high on his list. 

[indyagent17]

I don't think Ballard goes after him. I would be absolutely shocked even though Clowney lowered his asking price

[VaAllDay757]

If his asking price goes down again pull the trigger

[Nickster]

This is an interesting one.  Clowney is an elite run stopper and a line with him, Buckner, and Houston would rival any Dline in the game.  Clowney has not been a great sack producer but commands a lot of double teams.

 

On the other hand he ain’t worth what he’s asking for.

 

I kinda hope they sign him, but IDK.

I wonder how much he will go for.

[pacolts56]

Like I said in early March.... I’m in at 2yrs / 24m.... same as Justin Houston.
 

Not a penny more.

[Riversrun]

Clowney Would make a very big impact on this D .I am in the camp of are we all in or what ? I mean you go get Rivers then get DBuck and you won’t make a serious play at a player who may make a pivotal stop in an AFC championship vs what ? Are we all on Chris or what ? 

[csmopar]

28 minutes ago, Riversrun said:

Clowney Would make a very big impact on this D .I am in the camp of are we all in or what ? I mean you go get Rivers then get DBuck and you won’t make a serious play at a player who may make a pivotal stop in an AFC championship vs what ? Are we all on Chris or what ? 

There’s this pesky thing called a salary cap that we have to deal with. Clowney is wanting a LOT of cash

[twfish]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

There’s this pesky thing called a salary cap that we have to deal with. Clowney is wanting a LOT of cash

There about a 80% chance that 40 million in cap space shows up next season if Brisset and Rivers leave, plus houston possibly doesnt come back so I think we could definitely make it work

[C0LT5]

2 hours ago, Riversrun said:

Clowney Would make a very big impact on this D .I am in the camp of are we all in or what ? I mean you go get Rivers then get DBuck and you won’t make a serious play at a player who may make a pivotal stop in an AFC championship vs what ? Are we all on Chris or what ? 

 

...or he could jump offside and give the game away.

[CR91]

28 minutes ago, twfish said:

There about a 80% chance that 40 million in cap space shows up next season if Brisset and Rivers leave, plus houston possibly doesnt come back so I think we could definitely make it work

 

Unless Rivers completely sucks this season, the Colts will tag him. As for Houston, another double digit sack season and I highly doubt Ballard lets him walk

[CR91]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

There’s this pesky thing called a salary cap that we have to deal with. Clowney is wanting a LOT of cash

 

I hear he dropped his price tag to 17 which is still too high imo. I see Clowney honestly as a pricer version of Sheard. Will set the edge and give you some pass rush, but he's not gonna be the team's main pass rush threat.

[richard pallo]

He dropped his asking price before the draft to around 17M.  Nothing happened.  The draft is now over and it's time for him to find a team.  I'm guessing he's going to have to take a one year deal in the 12-14M neighborhood.  The Colts should be in negotiations in that range.  

[krunk]

I'd still love to get Clowney but I'm not even sure if we still have any interest at this point?

[Scott Pennock]

On a moderate deal for 3-4 years he would be a huge addition to our dline.

 

Having said that, Ballard has repeatedly stated he wants Turay, Lewis and Banogu to get reps....

[2006Coltsbestever]

I will stick with 2 years/26 mill = 13 a year. I posted this a month ago and will stick by it. I wouldn't pay him more than 13 a year. He is a good player but isn't great IMO.

[EastStreet]

here's the current odds

 

Jadeveon Clowney Team in Week 1 of the 2020 NFL Regular Season

Seattle Seahawks 3/2

Indianapolis Colts 2/1

Tennessee Titans 4/1

New York Giants 5/1

Philadelphia Eagles 6/1

Miami Dolphins 9/1

Baltimore Ravens 14/1

 

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/29/new-york-giants-given-5-1-odds-to-sign-jadeveon-clowney/

[stitches]

7 hours ago, Hoose said:

A one year prove it deal? At a non crazy price? Not the worst thing in the world. 

I was thinking about that too. Give him our remaining capspace minus operations expenses for 1 year. Get the short term production, get a comp pick next year or if he's awesome keep him longer.

[r a y s k i]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

I was thinking about that too. Give him our remaining capspace minus operations expenses for 1 year. Get the short term production, get a comp pick next year or if he's awesome keep him longer.

I know his sack production is not there, but he has been a dominant run defender and top of the league in pressures.

My only thing with him, based on what I've seen on him on field, not sure he has the personality we are looking for.

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, twfish said:

There about a 80% chance that 40 million in cap space shows up next season if Brisset and Rivers leave, plus houston possibly doesnt come back so I think we could definitely make it work

anything can be made to work if we wanted it too. I just dont think we want to pay a slightly above average DE top tier DE money.  He's just not worth it

8 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

I hear he dropped his price tag to 17 which is still too high imo. I see Clowney honestly as a pricer version of Sheard. Will set the edge and give you some pass rush, but he's not gonna be the team's main pass rush threat.

and 17 mil for a guy who really went higher in the draft than he should have says it all. He's not worth 17 mil per, he's barely worth 10-12 mil. But I'm not Ballard and I do hope ballard does NOT sign him

[r a y s k i]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

anything can be made to work if we wanted it too. I just dont think we want to pay a slightly above average DE top tier DE money.  He's just not worth it

and 17 mil for a guy who really went higher in the draft than he should have says it all. He's not worth 17 mil per, he's barely worth 10-12 mil. But I'm not Ballard and I do hope ballard does NOT sign him

We did pay Funchess way more than he was worth for a year so punting on a guy that could make us better, especially in an all in year I'd have no problem with. Would want that number to be closer to 12-14mill tho

[Myles]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

here's the current odds

 

Jadeveon Clowney Team in Week 1 of the 2020 NFL Regular Season

Seattle Seahawks 3/2

Indianapolis Colts 2/1

Tennessee Titans 4/1

New York Giants 5/1

Philadelphia Eagles 6/1

Miami Dolphins 9/1

Baltimore Ravens 14/1

 

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/29/new-york-giants-given-5-1-odds-to-sign-jadeveon-clowney/

Wow!   i had no idea the Colts were that high on the list of expected teams to sign him.  

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

Wow!   i had no idea the Colts were that high on the list of expected teams to sign him.  

I didn't either. And with Seattle giving his number back, Colt's might be the favorite now.

 

Who knows though. I'm sure these are just the Vegas guys making lines up based most on gut for most of these guys beyond Seattle. 

[Myles]

I'm torn on signing him.

Positives:

He's good at creating pass rush and the Colts need that.

He would make the team better.

 

Negatives:

Salary cap space.   I'm assuming he won't agree to a 1 year deal.  

Attitude.