Chuck Pagano complaints (merge)

[k9copinmd]

Sorry Chuck...you seem like a good person...but its time for you to go as coach.

[IinD]

Happy anniversary Chuck..

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000723532/article/lets-celebrate-the-anniversary-of-the-worst-play-ever

 

This is lol worthy...'we're a 3 quarter team'..

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000723428/article/chuck-pagano-is-encouraged-despite-colts-poor-start

[Bigsexy 16]

Was somewhat surprised Pagano hasn't been fired.  Stayed up to watch the slugfest  Sunday night and saw 57 minutes of decent football but not sure what happened the final three minutes and overtime.  Play calling was somewhat suspect.  Just a thought 

[1959Colts]

 

[SilentHill]

I know that Chud & Monachino are the play callers for offense and defense.

 

I'm curious if anyone knows if Chuck meddles in it, or if he is just taking responsibility during pressers and what not. For example, the 4th and inches play, who's call was that?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the HC, OC & DC in the same headset? I'd love to know how the dynamic is working there on who's calling the plays. I think most of the time Chuck doesn't even have a play sheet right?

 

My opinion of him could moderately change if I had some of this critical information. Still won't change is poor clock management, and his inability to teach his team how to tackle.

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, SilentHill said:

I know that Chud & Monachino are the play callers for offense and defense.

 

I'm curious if anyone knows if Chuck meddles in it, or if he is just taking responsibility during pressers and what not. For example, the 4th and inches play, who's call was that?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the HC, OC & DC in the same headset? I'd love to know how the dynamic is working there on who's calling the plays. I think most of the time Chuck doesn't even have a play sheet right?

 

My opinion of him could moderately change if I had some of this critical information. Still won't change is poor clock management, and his inability to teach his team how to tackle.

Nothing solid to support this, but I think Monachino calls the defense and Chud calls the offense while Pagano has more of a supervisory role.  Some coaches take this approach, including (I believe) Mike Tomlin and Bill Belichick.  Neither of those guys call the plays, but they can contribute to adjustments that need to be made, tell players to keep their eyes on certain things, etc.  They also communicate that with the other coaches; if Pagano sees something that can help, he'll let the other coaches know so they can take it into account as well.  Other times, you'll see the head coach make the calls, like Mike McCarthy and Jason Garrett used to do.

[Bubbz]

Jus gotta keep choppin wood

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/18/2016 at 8:55 PM, 21isSuperman said:

Nothing solid to support this, but I think Monachino calls the defense and Chud calls the offense while Pagano has more of a supervisory role.  Some coaches take this approach, including (I believe) Mike Tomlin and Bill Belichick.  Neither of those guys call the plays, but they can contribute to adjustments that need to be made, tell players to keep their eyes on certain things, etc.  They also communicate that with the other coaches; if Pagano sees something that can help, he'll let the other coaches know so they can take it into account as well.  Other times, you'll see the head coach make the calls, like Mike McCarthy and Jason Garrett used to do.

 

I would think the Coordinators make the call with input from the HC whenever he thinks it's needed.

 

[19colt]

Lamey said that Chuck told him pregame that he didn't care about the win but only that they played loose....

[IinD]

Could be mistaken, but I thought he took a dumb timeout right before halftime, but I didn't save the game so I could be wrong.

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, IinD said:

Could be mistaken, but I thought he took a dumb timeout right before halftime, but I didn't save the game so I could be wrong.

But he did make a ballsy onside kick call.

[IinD]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

But he did make a ballsy onside kick call.

That's true I have to give him that.

 

Wicked hop on that one. Still love my Colts, just not the 2 stooges. 

[SkyBane]

Was I the only one absolutely furious that they didn't take a shot at getting in field goal range with ~35 seconds and 2 timeouts left before the half? Part of the advantage of getting the ball at the start of the 2nd half is being able to pile on like that, and it was completely squandered.

 

That type of conservatism just kills me inside.

[RockThatBlue]

10 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

Was I the only one absolutely furious that they didn't take a shot at getting in field goal range with ~35 seconds and 2 timeouts left before the half? Part of the advantage of getting the ball at the start of the 2nd half is being able to pile on like that, and it was completely squandered.

 

That type of conservatism just kills me inside.

I didn't like it either. 

[Gyworks]

3rd&5 in Titans' territory with about 3 minutes to go and we are taking a TO prohibiting them to burn theirs. Did Pagano seriously think that we'll stop them? It's one thing to state in a presser that we have a good defense but how he can actually believe it? Exactly this remaining one TO allowed them to run for that TD instead of being forced to pass the ball in a hurry. I was screaming like mad at the TV but it didn't help. Somebody please explain our HC to not take a TO when the opposing team in a two minute drill but rather let them burn theirs.

[Dark Superman]

How about when the Colts got the ball late in the second quarter with roughly 35 seconds to go and two timeouts and Pagano decided to take a knee instead of trying to add onto our lead.

Luck was on fire and we had two timeouts. We also have that Vinatieri guy who can't seem to miss.

Pagano needs to go. Plain and simple.

[braveheartcolt]

His play calling has always been rank. Agrressive when he should be conservative, and vice versa. His use of time outs is approaching legendary status. For the wrong reasons.....

[Smoke317]

The problem came when we had just sacked Mariotta. 2nd and 14. He's clearly rattled. Couldn't make a throw to the outside to save his life. And we go into a soft zone and give him an easy 9 yard completion to Walker standing right in front of him. Now it's 3rd and 5. We give him an easy swing pass to Murray and he's in a rhythm. We definitely should have gotten the ball back in great field position with a 17-6 lead and a chance to put the game away.... Instead it's 17-13 at half and we're in a game again and they've got confidence.... Just poor coaching right there. Frustrating. I'm sitting in the stands yelling key Walker and Wright on that 2nd and 14. We give him a free release. Then I'm yelling key Murray on the 3rd down.  Trips to the left side with Murray to the left of the QB. Clearly they were gonna throw the swing pass to Murray. Geathers gets caught in the wash and their off and running. Our coaching made that game closer than it should have been. 

[lollygagger8]

And yet, Irsay still defends these clowns. 

[tfunky14]

Then why don't you all apply for a coaching position since you know it all.

 

Let me know if you get hired!

[krunk]

6 hours ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

How about when the Colts got the ball late in the second quarter with roughly 35 seconds to go and two timeouts and Pagano decided to take a knee instead of trying to add onto our lead.

Luck was on fire and we had two timeouts. We also have that Vinatieri guy who can't seem to miss.

Pagano needs to go. Plain and simple.

I'm going to assume in his mind we had the lead and we're a 2-4 ball club so he probably didn't want to give them leeway for any additional stuff like what happened in the Chargers game maybe.  Plus we were getting the ball back at half time.  You can criticize him, but hey we won so hopefully we'll make the necessary corrections for the Chiefs contest.

[Jason_]

6 hours ago, Gyworks said:

3rd&5 in Titans' territory with about 3 minutes to go and we are taking a TO prohibiting them to burn theirs. Did Pagano seriously think that we'll stop them? It's one thing to state in a presser that we have a good defense but how he can actually believe it? Exactly this remaining one TO allowed them to run for that TD instead of being forced to pass the ball in a hurry. I was screaming like mad at the TV but it didn't help.

 

Let's see.  I remember a few games ago when Chuck took a timeout too early in a very similar situation, and people blasted him for not running out more time on the clock prior to calling that TO, thus leaving too much time on the clock for the other team.  Why do you automatically assume that the Titans wouldn't have tried to do exactly that same thing?  There was no reason for Tennessee to take a TO in that situation because they had plenty of time on the clock (about 3 min. as you said).

 

Chuck took the TO because it was 3rd down and he was trying to leave as much time on the clock as possible for Luck to have an opportunity to score. 

 

Oh, and "how can he actually believe" that his defense would get a stop?  How about because they'd been getting stops since the very first drive of the game.  After that first drive, the Titans did not score again until the drive you're referring to, so there was plenty of reason to think that the defense could've gotten the stop. 

 

My lord people will go to any lengths to criticize our staff. 

[JPFolks]

Yes, we won the game in spite of it, but Pagano tried his best to lose it.  We were up 11 points with TN letting the clock run down and we get the ball at the start of the 2nd half.  The only team that stopped TN wasn't our D, it was poor play by Mariota and even worse play calling by TN.  They could have run and passed to the outside on any play they wanted and we had zero answer for it.  Why they didn't just run the ball with the option over and over and run up and down the field all days is anyone's guess, but it is the only reason we won.   So in the situation above, since our Defense wasn't stopping anyone, Pagano had a chance to use half time to essentially help the Defense out.  Then we go in, up 11, and come out looking to increase our lead further.  But no, that's too logical for Chuck.  He calls a time out. So TN goes out of "run out the clock" mode and gets a first down, predictably drives the field, much like Detroit did in that game winning 47 second drive, and they score a TD.  If not for a fortuitous forced fumble right into Mathis's hands for a TD late in the game, I have zero doubt TN would have come back and won that game, mostly because Pagano's terrible time management gave them a free 7 points at the end of the first half.  This pattern of making the worst decision at the most crucial time is simply too frequent.  Sure, we've won 3 games against the 3 worst teams on our schedule.  And we'll win some more thanks to Luck using whatever scraps he has to score enough to outscore other teams.  But it appears that Pagano is too much of a liability for him to completely overcome.  

[AZColt11]

As far as the timeout, I get you, I was thinking the same thing.  But at least I understand what he was doing at that time, he doesn't trust our defense either, he was trying to maybe get the ball back to score more so the D wouldn't have to give up the lead again.  Problem is on the next play they get the 1st down anyway.  This team is poorly coached though.  Lots of strange moves, calls, and the PENALTIES.  A lot of them just dumb, like the one away from the play wiping out the INT.  OMG!

[Gyworks]

54 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

Why do you automatically assume that the Titans wouldn't have tried to do exactly that same thing?  There was no reason for Tennessee to take a TO in that situation because they had plenty of time on the clock (about 3 min. as you said).

 

Chuck took the TO because it was 3rd down and he was trying to leave as much time on the clock as possible for Luck to have an opportunity to score. 

Tennessee took a TO just on the play before and even the announcers thought initially that the clock stopped because they were using their second one. Instead they spared it so that it proved to be very useful for them to finish their drive.

As for leaving time for Luck: you can take your TO after we actually stopped them and they are preparing to punt, still leaving us more than 2 minutes with 2 TOs. It's really not atomic science just some sound thinking. But we can easily miss on such calls if we are fully occupied with chopping wood.

[Jason_]

 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

7 hours ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

How about when the Colts got the ball late in the second quarter with roughly 35 seconds to go and two timeouts and Pagano decided to take a knee instead of trying to add onto our lead.

Luck was on fire and we had two timeouts. We also have that Vinatieri guy who can't seem to miss.

Pagano needs to go. Plain and simple.

 

I was furious about this. 2 time outs and 35 seconds to get to what? The opposing 45 worst case? That's a potential 3 points. Way to have a killer instinct. Those who are happy with a win is fine. But it's not like coaching changed this game for it to happen. Color me happy when that happens.

[AZColt11]

I get it.  poor decision in hindsight.  I initially was for it, then was thinking in my mind "we won't stop them anyway", then they got the 1st down on the next play.  But I get what he was thinking.  He doesn't believe in the defense anymore than we do.  He was banking that Mariota would make another poor throw and they would have to punt then our offense gets more points so the D wouldn't have to hold on for dear life again and give up the lead.

[21isSuperman]

8 hours ago, Gyworks said:

3rd&5 in Titans' territory with about 3 minutes to go and we are taking a TO prohibiting them to burn theirs. Did Pagano seriously think that we'll stop them? It's one thing to state in a presser that we have a good defense but how he can actually believe it? Exactly this remaining one TO allowed them to run for that TD instead of being forced to pass the ball in a hurry. I was screaming like mad at the TV but it didn't help. Somebody please explain our HC to not take a TO when the opposing team in a two minute drill but rather let them burn theirs.

Merged

[21isSuperman]

29 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Yes, we won the game in spite of it, but Pagano tried his best to lose it.  We were up 11 points with TN letting the clock run down and we get the ball at the start of the 2nd half.  The only team that stopped TN wasn't our D, it was poor play by Mariota and even worse play calling by TN.  They could have run and passed to the outside on any play they wanted and we had zero answer for it.  Why they didn't just run the ball with the option over and over and run up and down the field all days is anyone's guess, but it is the only reason we won.   So in the situation above, since our Defense wasn't stopping anyone, Pagano had a chance to use half time to essentially help the Defense out.  Then we go in, up 11, and come out looking to increase our lead further.  But no, that's too logical for Chuck.  He calls a time out. So TN goes out of "run out the clock" mode and gets a first down, predictably drives the field, much like Detroit did in that game winning 47 second drive, and they score a TD.  If not for a fortuitous forced fumble right into Mathis's hands for a TD late in the game, I have zero doubt TN would have come back and won that game, mostly because Pagano's terrible time management gave them a free 7 points at the end of the first half.  This pattern of making the worst decision at the most crucial time is simply too frequent.  Sure, we've won 3 games against the 3 worst teams on our schedule.  And we'll win some more thanks to Luck using whatever scraps he has to score enough to outscore other teams.  But it appears that Pagano is too much of a liability for him to completely overcome.  

Merged

[coltsva]

i mean it's not like pagano has never seen a team with a couple of timeouts and 35 seconds march down the field and kick a field goal. Coach, please join the rest of us in today's NFL.

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

Then why don't you all apply for a coaching position since you know it all.

 

Let me know if you get hired!

 

This forum would be great with thousands of "Go Colts" posts.

[21isSuperman]

9 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

Then why don't you all apply for a coaching position since you know it all.

 

Let me know if you get hired!

I don't think anyone on the forums is claiming they know it all and they are the best available candidate for a head coaching spot.  But you don't need to know it all to know that Pagano is inept.  I don't know as much as Jeff Fisher, but I do know he's not a good head coach.  When you see bad decision making, you don't need to be an expert to know it's bad.  When Pagano says he doesn't like the no-huddle because it doesn't let you substitute, you know that doesn't make sense even if you're not an expert on how to run an NFL offense.  When Pagano comes from a defensive background, but his defense is still among the worst in the league, you don't need to be an expert on NFL defenses to know something's wrong.  When you see Robert Mathis drop into coverage, you don't need to be an expert to know that's a bad idea.  I'm not saying I'm the best candidate for the job, nor do I claim to know more about football than Pagano, but I do know that he isn't a good head coach.

[WoolMagnet]

23 hours ago, richard pallo said:

But he did make a ballsy onside kick call.

I wasn't crazy about the onside kick.  It almost seems like Pat has the authority to make the call at the moment.  If we didn't get the ball, and they scored , the game probably goes differently.

but, then again, i tend to lean to the consevative side.

but, overall, i think Chuck HAS been doing better at managing the game.

[King Colt]

Gary Kubiak had several miserable years in Houston then on to Denver winning a Super Bowl and now in the running for a second Super Bowl. So compare the team personnel between the Colts and Broncos. Can you still blame Pagano?

[tfunky14]

14 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I don't think anyone on the forums is claiming they know it all and they are the best available candidate for a head coaching spot.  But you don't need to know it all to know that Pagano is inept.  I don't know as much as Jeff Fisher, but I do know he's not a good head coach.  When you see bad decision making, you don't need to be an expert to know it's bad.  When Pagano says he doesn't like the no-huddle because it doesn't let you substitute, you know that doesn't make sense even if you're not an expert on how to run an NFL offense.  When Pagano comes from a defensive background, but his defense is still among the worst in the league, you don't need to be an expert on NFL defenses to know something's wrong.  When you see Robert Mathis drop into coverage, you don't need to be an expert to know that's a bad idea.  I'm not saying I'm the best candidate for the job, nor do I claim to know more about football than Pagano, but I do know that he isn't a good head coach.

"WE" meaning all of us are not in the coaches room. We do not come up with game plans. We do not have to make stressful decision during the game. WE don't have to make decision that may or may not decide the outcome of a game.

 

Till "WE" are doing all that I wrote above I will respect the coaches decision being it right or wrong. In today's world everyone is so quick to judge, so quick to complain, so quick to call for firing of players or coaches that it baffles me.

 

Let the team/coaches/players work together, build chemistry and not to tear it down after 7 games...

Some people on here have no clue how teams become very good teams.

[21isSuperman]

2 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

"WE" meaning all of us are not in the coaches room. We do not come up with game plans. We do not have to make stressful decision during the game. WE don't have to make decision that may or may not decide the outcome of a game.

 

Till "WE" are doing all that I wrote above I will respect the coaches decision being it right or wrong. In today's world everyone is so quick to judge, so quick to complain, so quick to call for firing of players or coaches that it baffles me.

 

Let the team/coaches/players work together, build chemistry and not to tear it down after 7 games...

Some people on here have no clue how teams become very good teams.

So just because they're getting paid to do it, we're in no position to criticize?  Does the same apply to someone like Matt Millen?

[esmort]

2 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

"WE" meaning all of us are not in the coaches room. We do not come up with game plans. We do not have to make stressful decision during the game. WE don't have to make decision that may or may not decide the outcome of a game.

 

Till "WE" are doing all that I wrote above I will respect the coaches decision being it right or wrong. In today's world everyone is so quick to judge, so quick to complain, so quick to call for firing of players or coaches that it baffles me.

 

Let the team/coaches/players work together, build chemistry and not to tear it down after 7 games...

Some people on here have no clue how teams become very good teams.

 

"So quick to judge and complain" . . . Are you serious? ?  They've had 5 years . . . all the judging and complaining isn't based on just 7 games.

 

You don't get a decade to get it right . . . or at least you shouldn't. 

 

[tfunky14]

1 hour ago, esmort said:

 

"So quick to judge and complain" . . . Are you serious? ?  They've had 5 years . . . all the judging and complaining isn't based on just 7 games.

 

You don't get a decade to get it right . . . or at least you shouldn't. 

 

Really, that's the best you got.

2012 season 11 wins

2013 season 11 wins

2014 season 11 wins

2015 season  8 wins with out your QB for 9 games

 

 

Try again......

[esmort]

2 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

Really, that's the best you got.

2012 season 11 wins

2013 season 11 wins

2014 season 11 wins

2015 season  8 wins with out your QB for 9 games

 

 

Try again......

 

There are issues and problems that go back that far regardless of what the record was. Many were pointing these out back than even before they became the glaring issues they are now. 

 

Just some  of the highlights (there are plenty of other issues) . . . 

 

2012 - not Pagano 

2014 - AFCCG debacle where Pagano's coaching shortcomings were put on full display. 

2016 - questionable coaching again on display. 

 

--- add to these the part he has played in making Luck into a tackling dummy. 

 

. . . And there are plenty of reasons for complaint. . . and as I said to begin with this list of his shortcomings is far from complete.