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Chuck Pagano complaints (merge)


RockThatBlue

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2 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I'd like to see our WR coach pack his bags at this point too. That group has been a huge disappointment this year.

I think Philbin needs to go since the OL is still bad even though that's his apparent specialty.  I think Pagano needs to go and the reasons for that are well-established.  I think Chud needs to go because his playcalling is downright awful at times.  I think Monachino needs to go because the defense is way too vanilla for my liking.  Bottom line: clean house

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45 minutes ago, King Colt said:

The coach is stuck with two clowns he has to answer to. I refuse to blame Pagano as along as Grigson breathes air.

yeah, Grigson and Irsay keep making dumb fake punt calls and challenges, better player talent and longer extensions sure would solve Pagano's *ic plays and lack of preparation game after game, year after year, assistant after assistant.... lol

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Makes you wonder how much of his early success was a holdover from the last regime.

 

5 years in and this team is all him and it's gone from one of the most disciplined to one of the sloppiest and one that wouldn't lose two in a row (remember we saw that stat every week on the tv screen?) to one that can't win two in a row.

 

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51 minutes ago, IinD said:

Makes you wonder how much of his early success was a holdover from the last regime.

 

5 years in and this team is all him and it's gone from one of the most disciplined to one of the sloppiest and one that wouldn't lose two in a row (remember we saw that stat every week on the tv screen?) to one that can't win two in a row.

 

I don't necessarily think it was a lot of holdover, since so many of the big names from the previous regime weren't retained.  I think the free agents we were able to sign were good enough to cover up the holes.  Guys like Cory Redding and Jerrell Freeman were good leaders and they played well on the field.  But as those guys got older, good players weren't retained, and the departures were filled by lesser talents, the holes became bigger.  There's no question this team overachieved in 2012-2014.  That overachievement made Grigson far more comfortable than he should have been, so he signed older vets like Gore, Andre Johnson, and Trent Cole to contracts because he perhaps saw this team as being just a few pieces away from the Super Bowl.

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15 hours ago, King Colt said:

The coach is stuck with two clowns he has to answer to. I refuse to blame Pagano as along as Grigson breathes air.

I was on Grigson when we were winning and making dumb FA and draft choices that caught up to us, but clearly this team rarely plays up to their potential. A win at Lambeu should not keep Pagano safe. At least Grigson has played it safe this past year when his head was on the chopping block, but the penalties, the play calling, last minute blown games, the overall un-preparedeness, and butt kickings we get......get rid of Pagano. Nice guy and motivator but can't coach for %.

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We had the ball on the THREE yard line. Why would we take out our two best end zone threats (Allen and Doyle) and line up ALL three receivers on the SAME side of the field?! That has to be one of the dumbest decisions I have seen Pagano make. 

Then we run a delayed screen on 4th and 1??? They know we aren't going to throw a bomb on 4th and one. It was too easy to detect. 

Even though our team played with very little heart yesterday, I do feel bad for the players for being put in terrible situations. 

We need CHANGE. 

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14 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

We had the ball on the THREE yard line. Why would we take out our two best end zone threats (Allen and Doyle) and line up ALL three receivers on the SAME side of the field?! That has to be one of the dumbest decisions I have seen Pagano make. 

Then we run a delayed screen on 4th and 1??? They know we aren't going to throw a bomb on 4th and one. It was too easy to detect. 

Even though our team played with very little heart yesterday, I do feel bad for the players for being put in terrible situations. 

We need CHANGE. 

Merged

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On 12/11/2016 at 7:30 PM, 21isSuperman said:

I think Philbin needs to go since the OL is still bad even though that's his apparent specialty. 

 

sorry but this is just dumb.  Did you really expect the OL to become an elite unit overnight?  It takes time, especially when you just drafted 4 rookie linemen.  Add to that the constant injuries and this unit was always going to take time to come together. 

 

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I think Pagano needs to go and the reasons for that are well-established. 

 

I personally disagree but at least this has merit.

 

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I think Chud needs to go because his playcalling is downright awful at times. 

 

I agree here.  My biggest issue with Chuck has been his choice in offensive coordinators. 

 

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I think Monachino needs to go because the defense is way too vanilla for my liking. 

 

Pretty much the same here as Philbin.  And it's difficult to not be too vanilla with all the injuries that keep happening in the secondary.

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On 12/12/2016 at 1:38 PM, Colts1324 said:

We had the ball on the THREE yard line. Why would we take out our two best end zone threats (Allen and Doyle) and line up ALL three receivers on the SAME side of the field?! That has to be one of the dumbest decisions I have seen Pagano make.

 

This is the kind of thing I don't get.  How much do you think Chuck micro-manages Chud's playcalling?  My hunch is...not much.  I can see Chuck, in situations like that, possibly asking for a run or pass, but I don't see him making specific playcalls or calling for specific formations.  That's why newer defensive minded head coaches tend to hire experienced, veteran offensive coordinators.  That's why the hiring of Bruce Arians made perfect sense as well as Chud, and that's also why I personally think that Pep was more of a Grigson decision.

 

But back to my point...I've hated many of the short down/distance playcalls as well, but I put that on Chud...not Chuck.  Now, if we want to talk about Chuck stepping in during the week to talk to Chud about his playcalling in those situations then sure, I absolutely think he needs to do that.  But I have a really hard time believing that it was Chuck that called that specific play and that specific formation.

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3 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

sorry but this is just dumb.  Did you really expect the OL to become an elite unit overnight?  It takes time, especially when you just drafted 4 rookie linemen.  Add to that the constant injuries and this unit was always going to take time to come together. 

 

Pretty much the same here as Philbin.  And it's difficult to not be too vanilla with all the injuries that keep happening in the secondary.

I didn't expect our OL to become elite, but the results have been really bad.  When I see their technique, I see a lot of room for improvement.  Castonzo has the talent to be a good tackle, but he isn't playing like it.  A good coach, especially one whose specialty is OL, should be able to get that talent back and get Castonzo playing better.  Injuries, playcalling, and everything else aside, the unit is 3rd in the league in sacks given up with 40 and 2nd in the league with 109 QB hits.  That's not good for anyone, let alone someone (and I can't emphasize this enough) whose specialty is the OL.

 

Manusky dealt with his fair share of injuries too and the defense wasn't as vanilla with him.  I understand the toll injuries take, but I was expecting more from this defense than what Monachino has shown

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20 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I didn't expect our OL to become elite, but the results have been really bad.  When I see their technique, I see a lot of room for improvement.  Castonzo has the talent to be a good tackle, but he isn't playing like it.  A good coach, especially one whose specialty is OL, should be able to get that talent back and get Castonzo playing better.  Injuries, playcalling, and everything else aside, the unit is 3rd in the league in sacks given up with 40 and 2nd in the league with 109 QB hits.  That's not good for anyone, let alone someone (and I can't emphasize this enough) whose specialty is the OL.

 

Manusky dealt with his fair share of injuries too and the defense wasn't as vanilla with him.  I understand the toll injuries take, but I was expecting more from this defense than what Monachino has shown

 

first, I really don't think you need to emphasize at all that Philbin's specialty is OL because, if it weren't, then he likely wouldn't have been hired as the OL coach. :)

 

Second, yes, the Colt OL is 3rd in the league in sacks given up and 2nd with 109 QB hits...but how much of that is on the OL not blocking well and how much is on poor playcalling and Luck's natural tendency to hold on to the ball?  I'm not saying the OL has been great, but I definitely see hope and I disagree that the results have been "really bad".  Yes, there have been times when it has been really bad, but overall I see far more reason to be hopeful now than at any point up until now. 

 

Third, we also have to keep in mind that Chud installed his (new) offense and Philbin had to modify the blocking schemes to fit Chud's offense.  There was a LOT of change this offseason so growing pains and inconsistency should have been expected.  I just think the idea of even considering firing Philbin after not even a full first season with the team is just absurd...unless of course there's an entire house cleaning.

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51 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

first, I really don't think you need to emphasize at all that Philbin's specialty is OL because, if it weren't, then he likely wouldn't have been hired as the OL coach. :)

 

Second, yes, the Colt OL is 3rd in the league in sacks given up and 2nd with 109 QB hits...but how much of that is on the OL not blocking well and how much is on poor playcalling and Luck's natural tendency to hold on to the ball?  I'm not saying the OL has been great, but I definitely see hope and I disagree that the results have been "really bad".  Yes, there have been times when it has been really bad, but overall I see far more reason to be hopeful now than at any point up until now. 

 

Third, we also have to keep in mind that Chud installed his (new) offense and Philbin had to modify the blocking schemes to fit Chud's offense.  There was a LOT of change this offseason so growing pains and inconsistency should have been expected.  I just think the idea of even considering firing Philbin after not even a full first season with the team is just absurd...unless of course there's an entire house cleaning.

My point with the specialty comment was that with all the noise about him finally going back to his roots and doing what he's best at and what his specialty is, I haven't seen the results that should follow.  If something is your specialty, you shouldn't be ranked among the league's worst at it.  Unfortunately, I can't share your optimism.  I don't see more reason to be hopeful now.  Castonzo seems to be getting worse as the season goes on, our tackles look like they're playing on rollerskates half the time, and Luck continues to take hits and sacks.  I understand playcalling, injuries, and Luck's tendencies haven't helped, but the bottom line is the results aren't there.  I'm not even asking for a top 5 OL; top 20 would be a great starting point.  But to be ranked 29th/32 is simply terrible

 

For what it's worth, I'm in favour of an entire house cleaning.

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9 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

My point with the specialty comment was that with all the noise about him finally going back to his roots and doing what he's best at and what his specialty is, I haven't seen the results that should follow.  If something is your specialty, you shouldn't be ranked among the league's worst at it.  Unfortunately, I can't share your optimism.  I don't see more reason to be hopeful now.  Castonzo seems to be getting worse as the season goes on, our tackles look like they're playing on rollerskates half the time, and Luck continues to take hits and sacks.  I understand playcalling, injuries, and Luck's tendencies haven't helped, but the bottom line is the results aren't there.  I'm not even asking for a top 5 OL; top 20 would be a great starting point.  But to be ranked 29th/32 is simply terrible

 

For what it's worth, I'm in favour of an entire house cleaning.

 

of course you're entitled to your opinion, but mine is that your expectations were simply unreasonable.  I would, however, love to see a chart that could show the number of hits/sacks that the OL was responsible for compared to the ones that Luck is responsible for.  I know that's not going to happen of course but it would really help to put things into better perspective.

 

You also have to admit that the playcalling from Chud definitely hasn't helped either.  many have said already and I agree that there have been far, FAR too many 7 step drops and abandoning of the running game. 

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1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

of course you're entitled to your opinion, but mine is that your expectations were simply unreasonable.  I would, however, love to see a chart that could show the number of hits/sacks that the OL was responsible for compared to the ones that Luck is responsible for.  I know that's not going to happen of course but it would really help to put things into better perspective.

 

You also have to admit that the playcalling from Chud definitely hasn't helped either.  many have said already and I agree that there have been far, FAR too many 7 step drops and abandoning of the running game. 

Agree with you fully.  I don't have the resources to watch every game and make a call as to whether a sack or hit was the fault of Luck, Chud, or the OL, but I think that would be really interesting.  And I agree that Chud's playcalling hasn't helped.

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On 10/21/2016 at 9:15 AM, Thewholefnshow28 said:

I always wonder if posters like the OP even think things out before they post stuff like this. I imagine he is not a fan of Grigson either so lets assume that we do trade Luck and get a kings ransom for him.

 

Do you really have faith that Grigson, who has whiffed on guys like Richardson, Werner, and potentially Dorsettt, can nail all of those picks to be worth giving up your franchise QB?

 

If you trade Luck you are firing Pagano and Grigson as well as there is no way you can say this team is where it is just solely on Luck.  So now you have no franchise QB, no coach, nor a GM.  That is just way to much to have to deal with in two offseasons.  

 

Yes, Luck is making some bad decisions out there, but when you are in a position that you have to make a play and score every drive it is bound to happen.  This team is in the same position as Manning's team.  It all depends on Luck to make up for the impotence of the rest of the team.  He struggles and it is over.  So of course he is going to force things and take chances because he knows he has to.  His defense gives up 14 points in 3 minutes.  

 

Luck is the least of our worries.  How about we solidify our OL and a get something that resembles a profesional defense before we look at Luck?

 

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Listening to Pagano, it seems like he still doesn't get it. I find it pretty lame that after the game Pagano says how proud he is of this team and how they responded with the season on the line in a must win game. Really Chuck? Last week was the must win game. This week was the "too little too late" game, or the "let's see if we can save my job" game.

 

Inconsistency from week to week is a coaching problem, not a personnel problem. I think the GM is learning and improving. Not seeing that from the coach.

 

 

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4 hours ago, coltsva said:

Listening to Pagano, it seems like he still doesn't get it.

 

no, you don't get it.  Chuck's press conferences have always and will always be 100% coach speak.  He's never going to disparage the team or any individual player to the media.  What he says to the media should be taken with the biggest of grains of salt and anyone who's followed the team for more than a week should know that by now.

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2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

no, you don't get it.  Chuck's press conferences have always and will always be 100% coach speak.  He's never going to disparage the team or any individual player to the media.  What he says to the media should be taken with the biggest of grains of salt and anyone who's followed the team for more than a week should know that by now.

I get that, and I don't think he should disparage the team or talk negative after yesterday's game. Just say "we rebounded well after the disappointing loss to Houston." 

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9 minutes ago, coltsva said:

I get that, and I don't think he should disparage the team or talk negative after yesterday's game. Just say "we rebounded well after the disappointing loss to Houston." 

 

well you only have a couple of options:

 

1. stop listening to his press conferences

2. write out your own script on what you think he should say and Twitter it to Irsay

 

I'm thinking that if you go with option 2, you're going to be disappointed.

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1 minute ago, Jason_S said:

 

well you only have a couple of options:

 

1. stop listening to his press conferences

2. write out your own script on what you think he should say and Twitter it to Irsay

 

I'm thinking that if you go with option 2, you're going to be disappointed.

I'll have to go with option #1. Option #2 didn't work. 

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8 hours ago, coltsva said:

Listening to Pagano, it seems like he still doesn't get it. I find it pretty lame that after the game Pagano says how proud he is of this team and how they responded with the season on the line in a must win game. Really Chuck? Last week was the must win game. This week was the "too little too late" game, or the "let's see if we can save my job" game.

 

Inconsistency from week to week is a coaching problem, not a personnel problem. I think the GM is learning and improving. Not seeing that from the coach.

 

 

 

Well said.

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On 12/19/2016 at 6:11 AM, coltsva said:

Listening to Pagano, it seems like he still doesn't get it. I find it pretty lame that after the game Pagano says how proud he is of this team and how they responded with the season on the line in a must win game. Really Chuck? Last week was the must win game. This week was the "too little too late" game, or the "let's see if we can save my job" game.

 

Inconsistency from week to week is a coaching problem, not a personnel problem. I think the GM is learning and improving. Not seeing that from the coach.

 

 

 

This may be hard for you to understand,  but when Pagano makes comments like that,  he's NOT talking to you or the fan base as much as he's talking to his players.

 

And since YOU brought it up what did the team do when it could've rolled over and played dead?

 

It played lights out football.       Won on Offense.      Won on Defense.     Won on Special Teams.    Dominated the Vikings,  who were not just playing at home,  they were a 4-6 point favorite.     So, more than just a home field margin advantage.

 

And the team played their heart out for Chuck.    He had them playing hard when most other teams might not have.

 

Inconsistency week to week can be chalked up to never ending injuries and poor personnel to begin with.    We are Andrew Luck, a few other nice pieces  and most of the roster is average to below average....  

 

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3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Inconsistency week to week can be chalked up to never ending injuries and poor personnel to begin with.    We are Andrew Luck, a few other nice pieces  and most of the roster is average to below average....  

 

What about inconsistent game planning, particularly on offense?  One week, take the Jets, it's like we have the difficulty set to easy and Luck is carving up the defense.  Another week, take the Texans, it's nothing even close.  Very few short routes, bad blocking schemes (Allen vs. Clowney one on one).  Inconsistent game plans fall on the coaches

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16 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

What about inconsistent game planning, particularly on offense?  One week, take the Jets, it's like we have the difficulty set to easy and Luck is carving up the defense.  Another week, take the Texans, it's nothing even close.  Very few short routes, bad blocking schemes (Allen vs. Clowney one on one).  Inconsistent game plans fall on the coaches

 

The Jets didn't show up.     Their whole team didn't show up.      It wasn't hard to look good in that game.

 

Houston showed up and they have a ton of talent on that side of the ball.     Their defense is so good,  it helps them win even without JJ Watt.      

 

I'm not happy with what happened against Houston two weeks ago,  but you don't cut a coaching staff and GM over one game.        Not a good way to do business.

 

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On 12/19/2016 at 9:11 AM, coltsva said:

Listening to Pagano, it seems like he still doesn't get it. I find it pretty lame that after the game Pagano says how proud he is of this team and how they responded with the season on the line in a must win game. Really Chuck? Last week was the must win game. This week was the "too little too late" game, or the "let's see if we can save my job" game.

 

Inconsistency from week to week is a coaching problem, not a personnel problem. I think the GM is learning and improving. Not seeing that from the coach.

 

 

Inconsistency is definitely a personnel problem and a coaching problem. We don't have good depth and we have glaring weaknesses. In some games these get exposed and no amount of coaching is going to cover these up. Pittsburgh was a personnel problem, Kansas City was a personnel problem, etc. 

 

Both of our coordinators are in their first years (full year in Chud's case), they need some time to get the correct personnel to run their schemes. Take away Vontae Davis (which has happened this year) and Monachino is essentially working with the talent defensively of an expansion team (some young players but a lot of aging, average players) and I honestly don't know how he is supposed to make it work. 

 

I also don't understand your complaint. Players easily could have not shown up for the Minnesota game, clearly the players respect Pagano enough to play hard for him, that's still a sign of good coaching and something Pagano should be proud of.

 

Overall this is a problem where clearly the personnel is not strong enough and the coaching not clever enough, to lay it all on coaching is wrong. 

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3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The Jets didn't show up.     Their whole team didn't show up.      It wasn't hard to look good in that game.

 

Houston showed up and they have a ton of talent on that side of the ball.     Their defense is so good,  it helps them win even without JJ Watt.      

 

I'm not happy with what happened against Houston two weeks ago,  but you don't cut a coaching staff and GM over one game.        Not a good way to do business.

 

Inconsistent game planning has been a problem for the entire season, not just one game

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2 hours ago, VocableLoki said:

Inconsistency is definitely a personnel problem and a coaching problem. We don't have good depth and we have glaring weaknesses. In some games these get exposed and no amount of coaching is going to cover these up. Pittsburgh was a personnel problem, Kansas City was a personnel problem, etc. 

 

Both of our coordinators are in their first years (full year in Chud's case), they need some time to get the correct personnel to run their schemes. Take away Vontae Davis (which has happened this year) and Monachino is essentially working with the talent defensively of an expansion team (some young players but a lot of aging, average players) and I honestly don't know how he is supposed to make it work. 

 

I also don't understand your complaint. Players easily could have not shown up for the Minnesota game, clearly the players respect Pagano enough to play hard for him, that's still a sign of good coaching and something Pagano should be proud of.

 

Overall this is a problem where clearly the personnel is not strong enough and the coaching not clever enough, to lay it all on coaching is wrong. 

I agree that there are personnel problems too, but I also think personnel is trending in the right direction. I don't feel that way with the coaching. Perhaps it's as you say with both coordinators being new and getting more of the players they need. I can see the validity in that argument. 

 

Coming out and playing hard is what most professional players do, regardless of how they feel about their coach. Bengals played hard, Jaguars played hard, Bears played hard, etc. It's obvious the players respect Pagano, but that's not necessarily a sign of good coaching. That's the sign of a good man, and an admirable quality for a coach to have, but it doesn't mean he's a good coach. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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