Adam Vinatieri (Merge)

[Barry Sears]

If AV decides to retire, is Sanchez an option?  The dude has a super strong leg and hasn't he kicked FGs and PATs in the past?  That would free up a roster spot.  Just curious.

[chad72]

42 minutes ago, csmopar said:

well said. AV deserves to retire on his terms, hes earned it.  IF he does retire, I hope he gets to be honored Sunday at LOS.  And while Luck deserved the booing, IF anyone boos AV when he announces his retirement, they deserve a butt-kicking.

 

How is it that much different? AV will be quitting on the team in the beginning of a season than 2 weeks prior to the season. Granted he is not a QB but the team would be trying to talk him out of retirement just like they did with Luck. It is not like Ballard got a backup QB like Brissett in the case of Luck, with a quality backup kicker for AV.

 

AV should be cut or be put on PUP to clear his head (because it is more mental than physical, IMO). He is a class act but he should not retire if the team doesn't have better options out there, unless the team wants to part with him. Personally, I want to give him one more game indoors at home before making any knee jerk reactions but I don't think retiring in the beginning of the season is the answer. If the team does have options, I am fine with him retiring and for the record, I never felt Luck was a quitter like many.

[csmopar]

26 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

How is it that much different? AV will be quitting on the team in the beginning of a season than 2 weeks prior to the season. Granted he is not a QB but the team would be trying to talk him out of retirement just like they did with Luck. It is not like Ballard got a backup QB like Brissett in the case of Luck, with a quality backup kicker for AV.

 

AV should be cut or be put on PUP to clear his head (because it is more mental than physical, IMO). He is a class act but he should not retire if the team doesn't have better options out there, unless the team wants to part with him. Personally, I want to give him one more game indoors at home before making any knee jerk reactions but I don't think retiring in the beginning of the season is the answer. If the team does have options, I am fine with him retiring and for the record, I never felt Luck was a quitter like many.

Big difference, AV is 46 and honestly, as much as I love him, his prime years are over.  Luck was just entering his prime with arguably the best team he's ever had and he quit mid-game. 

AV has been declining for a couple years percentage wise. He's been off now going back to last season. 

Luck was coming off a career year and was not even 30. he quit.

[cbear]

30 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

If AV decides to retire, is Sanchez an option?  The dude has a super strong leg and hasn't he kicked FGs and PATs in the past?  That would free up a roster spot.  Just curious.

 

He was the kicker at Hawaii.  21-24 for his career and was 100% his senior year.  I'm sure he will be given a chance. 

[chad72]

Just now, csmopar said:

Big difference, AV is 46 and honestly, as much as I love him, his prime years are over.  Luck was just entering his prime with arguably the best team he's ever had and he quit mid-game. 

AV has been declining for a couple years percentage wise. He's been off now going back to last season. 

Luck was coming off a career year and was not even 30. he quit.

 

The exhaustion is mental, not physical. So neither Luck retiring nor AV retiring would be chalked up to their physical ability or our perception of what their physical ability should warrant. 

 

Mentally, someone can be tired at any point in time, just my take on it. Several NFL players have quit young though their bodies "may" have been physically able to continue, the keyword being "may" because that is purely based on our perception and extrapolation from one year to another. 

[Superman]

32 minutes ago, chad72 said:

How is it that much different? AV will be quitting on the team in the beginning of a season than 2 weeks prior to the season. Granted he is not a QB but the team would be trying to talk him out of retirement just like they did with Luck. It is not like Ballard got a backup QB like Brissett in the case of Luck, with a quality backup kicker for AV.

 

He is a class act but he should not retire if the team doesn't have better options out there, unless the team wants to part with him.

 

A kicker is not a QB, with the team built around him. AV is 46, Luck wasn't 30 yet. AV can't perform right now, last time we saw Luck he was as good as ever. We could argue that AV would be hurting the team by staying.

 

I don't think a player's decision to retire should be based on whether the team has options. It should be up to the player, and the team will have to adjust as necessary. 

[indyagent17]

Who will be the holder if Sanchez kicks? 

[Barry Sears]

Just now, indyagent17 said:

Who will be the holder if Sanchez kicks? 

 

Hoyer?

[coltsva]

1 minute ago, indyagent17 said:

Who will be the holder if Sanchez kicks? 

Sanchez can hold too.

 

Heck, Bugs Bunny once played every position on the baseball field.

[Mitch Connors]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

During the broadcast they said AV told them that if he was the GM, he would have cut himself after last week's game. Probably tongue-in-cheek, but combine that with his previous comments that he doesn't want to be a liability, and the fact that he took some time to decide whether to come back after last season, I think he's decided he's done.

 

At first I was thinking that he was just frustrated after yesterday when he told Holder that he'd speak with the media today, maybe emotional and had decided to hang it up, but could be talked out of it by this afternoon. But I would think he set certain criteria for himself, and he knows he's not hitting those criteria. I think he blames himself for the Week 1 loss (which is reasonable), and with clear eyes sees himself as a liability. I don't know if he thinks he can rebound, but I doubt he wants to let the team down again. 

 

I also think he's in his own head. He was kicking fine in warmups in Week 1, reportedly he was kicking fine during the week and in warmups yesterday. It's not like his leg is suddenly falling off, or he's struggling through an injury (that we know of, it's certainly not obvious watching him). 

 

So if I had to bet, I'd say he's going to hang it up today. I said last week, and several times before, eventually AV won't be able to keep kicking, and it will be said, but when that happens, it's time for him to step aside. If that day has come, I'm sad to see it, but everyone involved has to be fair to the team. And to AV. 

 

I think the big problem in your post is its all about what AV wants. The NFL has been and always will be a league about what you can do next, not what you've done in the past. As much as I like AV this shouldn't be his choice - the guys missed 7 kicks in his past 3 games. The Colts should say, "you're gonna be benched. You can retire on your own terms or you can be cut'. 

 

A Hall of Fame resume has nothing to do with this. Can he make the kicks? The answer is no. 

[Superman]

Just now, Mitch Connors said:

 

I think the big problem in your post is its all about what AV wants. The NFL has been and always will be a league about what you can do next, not what you've done in the past. As much as I like AV this shouldn't be his choice - the guys missed 7 kicks in his past 3 games. The Colts should say, "you're gonna be benched. You can retire on your own terms or you can be cut'. 

 

A Hall of Fame resume has nothing to do with this. Can he make the kicks? The answer is no. 

 

Not really. I'm talking about this from AV's perspective because all reports indicate it's his choice right now. My post has nothing to do with how the Colts should handle it, because it looks like AV is going to handle it himself. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

22 minutes ago, Superman said:

I don't think a player's decision to retire should be based on whether the team has options. It should be up to the player, and the team will have to adjust as necessary. 

 

Exactly, whether its performance, age or health, or any other reason.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This would be a huge mistake.

 

 

[BigQungus]

To everyone who doesn't understand why some posters are ashamed of this thread, it's not necessarily cause they think he should still be here or not. Most people here think he should be gone. But it's not about that. It's the manner in which people are saying he's trash and should be cut.

 

Please, put some respect on his name. I don't care that he's been sucking, just at least be respectful of everything that he's done. 

 

Still the GOAT, regardless of what happens this week

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

This would be a huge mistake.

 

 

 

Woah

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Right now this team isn’t putting up enough points to ket AV work through this. 

[Mr.Debonair]

6 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

To everyone who doesn't understand why some posters are ashamed of this thread, it's not necessarily cause they think he should still be here or not. Most people here think he should be gone. But it's not about that. It's the manner in which people are saying he's trash and should be cut.

 

Please, put some respect on his name. I don't care that he's been sucking, just at least be respectful of everything that he's done. 

 

Still the GOAT, regardless of what happens this week

 

Woah

Everyone understands who he is and what he’s accomplished and while that is great, he isn’t effective and hasn’t been since last season. No one has yet to provide a convincing argument for him other than his past accomplishments

[indyagent17]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

Right now this team isn’t putting up enough points to ket AV work through this. 

That is the key point, We are dancing on a razors edge. We cannot afford to leave points on the field

[hoosierhawk]

What are our options at this point?

[ColtsBlueFL]

27 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

"you're gonna be benched. You can retire on your own terms or you can be cut'. 

 

Really, you'd approach that way?  Not in an 'Adam do you think it's correctable by next week', or are you thinking to retire? Some type of discussion?

 

From the players perspective in an "what you can do next", I'd be miffed and say, 'OK, cut me'.  I'll keep all of the 3.875 million pay you owe me this year too.

 

As a vested vet, all of his almost 4 million is fully guaranteed, whether he stays or is released.  

 

OTOH, If he retires, he forfeits the remaining 15 checks of his $1,875 million base salary, and the Colts eligible to ask for a very large % of his bonus money back in return (which also frees up cap space for a replacement). But you can't 'force' someone to retire.

 

 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

well said. AV deserves to retire on his terms, hes earned it.  IF he does retire, I hope he gets to be honored Sunday at LOS.  And while Luck deserved the booing, IF anyone boos AV when he announces his retirement, they deserve a butt-kicking.

 I'll will cheer when he retires and IMO he's selfish if he doesn't.  He's obviously washed up.  He's friggin 46.  

 

There is no reason to wait and see if a guy is going to start making PATs and 29 yd FGs.  Cut if he doesn't retire.  

[jmac_48]

I'm in the camp for saying this is a case of the yips. He's still got the leg, he's hitting it in warmups, just missing in the game. It's typical yips behavior, unfortunately as in golf, baseball pitching and place kicking older athletes seldom recover... with Adam we will see.

[twfish]

I want to give him 1-2 games to still get settled down. Besides if he does cost us those games than that's even less draft picks we have to give up to trade up to get a QB with. We blame Adam a whole lot for the Chargers game but not the offense for not being able to throw the ball.

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Really, you'd approach that way?  Not in an 'Adam do you think it's correctable by next week', or are you thinking to retire? Some type of discussion?

 

From the players perspective in an "what you can do next", I'd be miffed and say, 'OK, cut me'.  I'll keep all of the 3.875 million pay you owe me this year too.

 

As a vested vet, all of his almost 4 million is fully guaranteed, whether he stays or is released.  

 

OTOH, If he retires, he forfeits the remaining 15 checks of his $1,875 million base salary, and the Colts eligible to ask for a very large % of his bonus money back in return (which also frees up cap space for a replacement). But you can't 'force' someone to retire.

 

 

Meh, if the Colts didn't go after Luck's 25 million ,they for sure will not even think about going after AV's. No way, no how do they do that to him.  Heck, I'd bet you a 6 pack they'd pay him his base too, simply out of respect. We have plenty of cap space. 

[IinD]

So nothing happened I'm assuming?

[Mitch Connors]

Just now, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Really, you'd approach that way?  Not in an 'Adam do you think it's correctable by next week', or some type of discussion?

 

From the players perspective in an "what you can do next", I'd be miffed and say, 'OK, cut me'.  I'll keep all of the 3.875 million pay you owe me this year too.

 

As a vested vet, all of his almost 4 million is fully guaranteed, whether he stays or is released.  

 

OTOH, If he retires, he forfeits the remaining 15 checks of his $1,875 million base salary, and the Colts eligible to ask for a very large % of his bonus money back in return (which also frees up cap space for a replacement). But you can't 'force' someone to retire.

 

 

 

100% Id cut him . If Mack was fumbling on 66% of his touches (Vinnys miss rate ATM) do you think he should still be out there? What if Braden Smith was giving up sacks on 66% of drop backs how longs his leash?

 

Do you honestly believe another NFL team would sign Vinny if the Colts cut him today? 

 

The salary hit is irrelevant we're so far under right now.

[LuckyHorseShoe§]

I’ll get lit up for this, but I want AV to play Sunday. I want him to finish his career at LOS, and maybe with a completed field goal. Even if we lost the game because of him, I would take it. I want us to have one last game to honor one of the best men to ever play for us, both on and off the field. Guys like AV are so rare, we need to treat them with respect even when they struggle.

Also, the Colts shouldn’t cut AV. The all time leading scorer and one of the best football players of all time needs to go out in retirement, not by being unceremoniously cut by the Colts. The man needs to retire here.

[csmopar]

21 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

This would be a huge mistake.

 

 

 

i said yesterday they'd give him thru week 3, a home game.  If he misses those at home, then I think it'll force their hand.

[Four2itus]

31 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

The Colts should say, "you're gonna be benched. You can retire on your own terms or you can be cut'. 

If the Colts did this to this player, I would end being a fan after nearly five decades of rooting for them. 

[LuckyHorseShoe§]

2 minutes ago, twfish said:

I want to give him 1-2 games to still get settled down. Besides if he does cost us those games than that's even less draft picks we have to give up to trade up to get a QB with. We blame Adam a whole lot for the Chargers game but not the offense for not being able to throw the ball.

The offense was definitely not the problem in the Chargers game, the defense was.

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, twfish said:

I want to give him 1-2 games to still get settled down. Besides if he does cost us those games than that's even less draft picks we have to give up to trade up to get a QB with. We blame Adam a whole lot for the Chargers game but not the offense for not being able to throw the ball.

 

I'd say get him some home cooking, maybe kicking indoors again may get his "mojo" back. If a couple of games at home don't work, you can safely say he is done.

[csmopar]

Just now, LuckyHorseShoe§ said:

I’ll get lit up for this, but I want AV to play Sunday. I want him to finish his career at LOS, and maybe with a completed field goal. Even if we lost the game because of him, I would take it. I want us to have one last game to honor one of the best men to ever play for us, both on and off the field. Guys like AV are so rare, we need to treat them with respect even when they struggle.

Also, the Colts shouldn’t cut AV. The all time leading scorer and one of the best football players of all time needs to go out in retirement, not by being unceremoniously cut by the Colts. The man needs to retire here.

[csmopar]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

I'd say get him some home cooking, maybe kicking indoors again may get his "mojo" back. If a couple of games at home don't work, you can safely say he is done.

agreed

[LuckyHorseShoe§]

Just now, Four2itus said:

If the Colts did this to this player, I would end being a fan after nearly five decades of rooting for them. 

Agreed. Sticky situation, but cutting him or benching him is an awful thing to do to one of the best guys to ever play football

[richard pallo]

Vinny's the one who said he would be talking to the media today.  Not the Colts.  So the whole point of saying that is to tell us he's going to announce he is going to continue playing?   I think not. 

[Fisticuffs111]

Just throwing it out there...Hedlund was more than serviceable in preseason. He made his PATs and went 6-8 on FG's, including 3 from 40+.  His misses came at 40+ and 50+.

[coltsva]

Makes no sense to keep a player for sentimental reasons, or to give him a proper send off at LOS. That's what the Ring of Honor and HOF ceremonies are for. I want wins and if Ballard feels AV is a liability, and there's a better option out there, he needs to replace him now.

[Myles]

6 minutes ago, LuckyHorseShoe§ said:

I’ll get lit up for this, but I want AV to play Sunday. I want him to finish his career at LOS, and maybe with a completed field goal. Even if we lost the game because of him, I would take it. I want us to have one last game to honor one of the best men to ever play for us, both on and off the field. Guys like AV are so rare, we need to treat them with respect even when they struggle.

Also, the Colts shouldn’t cut AV. The all time leading scorer and one of the best football players of all time needs to go out in retirement, not by being unceremoniously cut by the Colts. The man needs to retire here.

Not me and not most successful GM's.   You cannot accept poor performance because of past deeds.   If the decline was just a continuing slow decline like he has shown the past 5 years, it is one thing.   He's currently the worst kicker in the league.   I hope he turns it around, but you can't let him to continue to cost us games.  

[Superman]

Just now, LuckyHorseShoe§ said:

Agreed. Sticky situation, but cutting him or benching him is an awful thing to do to one of the best guys to ever play football

 

Just now, chad72 said:

 

I'd say get him some home cooking, maybe kicking indoors again may get his "mojo" back. If a couple of games at home don't work, you can safely say he is done.

 

I don't know about that. If the other 52 guys play well enough to put the team in position to win, and the kicker can't convert, it's not fair to the team to keep him out there. Even if he looks great at home, there are six more games on the road. Do you wait to see if he struggles on the road again? And I assume that's similar to his thought process.

 

I'm not one of these in a hurry to get rid of him, but my level of concern went from 'I hope he gets it together' to 'it looks like he's done' in just seven days. He's 2/8, all from distances that shouldn't be a problem. He's dealt with no wind or weather. It's very problematic at this point.

 

AV has had bad stretches before. This seems different.

[1959Colts]

good grief...

 

 

[Blueblood23]

34 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

To everyone who doesn't understand why some posters are ashamed of this thread, it's not necessarily cause they think he should still be here or not. Most people here think he should be gone. But it's not about that. It's the manner in which people are saying he's trash and should be cut.

 

Please, put some respect on his name. I don't care that he's been sucking, just at least be respectful of everything that he's done. 

 

Still the GOAT, regardless of what happens this week

 

Woah

If he keeps going the way he has so far the GOAT will go to someone else. I appreciate what he has done and meant to the team. Father Time has called.