Have we really improved our team this weekend?

[braveheartcolt]

So, most of you can put away your pitchforks and torches for a short period, and celebrate. But what have we really achieved? Perhaps too early to understand the long term strategy, but we could be in a bigger mess than before, and that is saying something. Our 'new guy' better have some off season, that is for sure. Or maybe Irsay has still to play his Trump card. If we were going to clean house, we should have cleaned it out entirely, now we are left with a lingering coach with his head in a noose. Not the best motivational situation at all. Good luck, let the insults begin......

[ztboiler]

It's fair to assume that there are some miles to go before we know the full meaning of today's actions.  

 

It should, at least, all move more decisively between now and the Superbowl.

 

Pagano may still be coaching next year, but there is just as good a chance that he won't.

 

At the end of the day, Irsay decided that change begins with fresh vision from the top down, that's all we know so far.

[MacDee1975]

Yeah, would've been better to keep Grigson and continue to bring in zero difference makers on defense, make no improvements whatsoever to the OL, sign CFL players and draft "project" players with early round picks.

 

And this is the NFL, not college.  If Pagano can't handle the pressure and expectations that come with being an NFL head coach, and if he isn't already motivated to succeed, he should quit and go into another line of work.

[zibby43]

Below are Grigson's defensive draft picks from 2012-2015 (a strike-through over a name means that player is no longer on the roster):

 

2012: Josh Champman, Tim Fugger

 

2013: Bjoern Werner, Montori Hughes, John Boyett

 

2014: Jonathan Newsome, Andrew Jackson

 

2015: D'Joun Smith, Henry Anderson, Clayton Geathers, David Parry, Amarlo Herrera

 

I'm glad Grigson is gone.

[braveheartcolt]

31 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

Yeah, would've been better to keep Grigson and continue to bring in zero difference makers on defense, make no improvements whatsoever to the OL, sign CFL players and draft "project" players with early round picks.

 

And this is the NFL, not college.  If Pagano can't handle the pressure and expectations that come with being an NFL head coach, and if he isn't already motivated to succeed, he should quit and go into another line of work.

So that would be a 'yes' then. If only it was that simple. Out of interest, what drafting style will our new GM have? Of course, no one knows yet, do they. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, zibby43 said:

Below are Grigson's defensive draft picks from 2012-2015 (a strike-through over a name means that player is no longer on the roster):

 

2012: Josh Champman, Tim Fugger

 

2013: Bjoern Werner, Montori Hughes, John Boyett

 

2014: Jonathan Newsome, Andrew Jackson

 

2015: D'Joun Smith, Henry Anderson, Clayton Geathers, David Parry, Amarlo Herrera

 

I'm glad Grigson is gone.

Great Post, that was my point on the other Thread. What has Pagano had to work with Defensively?

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, zibby43 said:

Below are Grigson's defensive draft picks from 2012-2015 (a strike-through over a name means that player is no longer on the roster):

 

2012: Josh Champman, Tim Fugger

 

2013: Bjoern Werner, Montori Hughes, John Boyett

 

2014: Jonathan Newsome, Andrew Jackson

 

2015: D'Joun Smith, Henry Anderson, Clayton Geathers, David Parry, Amarlo Herrera

 

I'm glad Grigson is gone.

that's cherry picking..

He also picked 3 O-linemen who started this year..and 6 players who started this year.

 

Have we improved this weekend.?..Lets see who takes the GM job first

[Dark Superman]

If the Colts hire from within and go with Jimmy Raye.. I'm going to be very disappointed.

 

And as long as Chucky P is here.. this team is going nowhere.

[MR. Blueblood]

22 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

that's cherry picking..

He also picked 3 O-linemen who started this year..and 6 players who started this year.

 

Have we improved this weekend.?..Lets see who takes the GM job first

That's not cherry picking at all.  They specifically stated defensive picks (which is without question the weakest unit on the team)  and showed how Grigson's misses in the draft for years have left this defense with the cupboard bare of young playmakers.  If he hits on half of those 9 crossed out, maybe, just maybe the defense isn't so horrible.

[Dark Superman]

Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard.

He should of been fired for that move alone.

[Buck Showalter]

17 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

that's cherry picking..

He also picked 3 O-linemen who started this year..and 6 players who started this year.

 

Have we improved this weekend.?..Lets see who takes the GM job first

To be fair, of course he picked "starters" he drafts players & the team has to field a team...

[Buck Showalter]

4 minutes ago, Green_Ranger said:

Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard.

He should of been fired for that move alone.

Again, in the name of fairness, the Jerry Hughes trade is among the least of Grigsons gaffes & misfires...

While Buffalo definitely "won" the trade, Hughes was busting out in Indy, for whatever reason...

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, Green_Ranger said:

If the Colts hire from within and go with Jimmy Raye.. I'm going to be very disappointed.

 

And as long as Chucky P is here.. this team is going nowhere.

Hows your brother Lone ?

[NewColtsFan]

 

I assume the new GM will be hired in early to mid February.

 

So, he'll have strong input into both free agency and the draft.     I don't know if it will be all his calls, or if Raye will get strong input as well.    

 

But we do have a very important off-season.    Good money to spend in free agency and all our picks, minus our 7, plus an extra 4.     We could and should improve the team a good deal this off-season.

 

This is a big year for the franchise.....    we need to make the most of it.

 

[Mr Coffee]

2 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

To be fair, of course he picked "starters" he drafts players & the team has to field a team...

EXAXTLY.  Drafting "starters" doesn't mean they are any good, especially when most of them wouldn't start on any other NFL team. 

[HungarianColtsFan]

3 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

So, most of you can put away your pitchforks and torches for a short period, and celebrate. But what have we really achieved? Perhaps too early to understand the long term strategy, but we could be in a bigger mess than before, and that is saying something. Our 'new guy' better have some off season, that is for sure. Or maybe Irsay has still to play his Trump card. If we were going to clean house, we should have cleaned it out entirely, now we are left with a lingering coach with his head in a noose. Not the best motivational situation at all. Good luck, let the insults begin......

 

We don't know yet if we improved the team, but we  fired someone who wasn't able to improve it in 5 years.

[zibby43]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Great Post, that was my point on the other Thread. What has Pagano had to work with Defensively?

 

Thanks man.  When I saw that "infographic," for lack of a better word, it was probably one of the most compelling (and succinct) cases I have seen against Grigson.  I'm sure you felt the same when you saw it.

 

Parry, one of the 3 players still on the roster from that list, has been pretty average (unfortunately).  The kid plays hard, but on a roster with plenty of DL talent, Parry would be a limited snaps type of guy.

 

2 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

that's cherry picking..

He also picked 3 O-linemen who started this year..and 6 players who started this year.

 

Have we improved this weekend.?..Lets see who takes the GM job first

 

Green should have never started.  That was born out of pure necessity/lack of bodies.  Same for the o-line.  Kelly deserved to be a day one starter.  But Haeg probably needed limited snaps/more development, and it took Clark nearly the entire year to see the field (jury is still out on Haeg and Clark but I'm personally optimistic).

 

And I wasn't trying to cherry pick.  I explicitly stated that my list focused only on defensive draft picks.  I thought the defensive picks warranted a hard look since there are only 3 bodies left from the '12-'15 draft classes.

 

Furthermore, 5+ years into Grigson's regime, the Colts just fielded the worst defense in the history of the franchise (i.e., the Indy franchise).

 

I wish Grigson, the man, nothing but the best.  As a GM, good riddance lol. 

[#12.]

Did we improve our team?  Well, one of the worst GMs and biggest @ssholes in the universe, if you believe future hall of famers like Reggie and All Pros like Pat is gone, so yes.  

 

You could draw names out of a hat or throw darts at a draft board and improve upon Grigson's work.  

 

[zibby43]

23 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

But we do have a very important off-season.    Good money to spend in free agency and all our picks, minus our 7, plus an extra 4.     We could and should improve the team a good deal this off-season.

 

This is a big year for the franchise.....    we need to make the most of it.

 

 

Quoted for truth.  I said this in another thread, but the team can make a big jump next year if, via free agency and the draft, the new GM can acquire some defensive playmakers.

 

1-2 guys, at every level of the defense, that can wreck a game or change the momentum of a game, are sorely needed.  A pass rusher with power and speed, an athletic, rangy LB that can cover, a true FS, and a physical corner capable of playing press man (without help). 

 

Colts also need a RB like Dalvin Cook that is a true homerun threat and can catch passes out of the backfield (I'm talking wheel routes and other downfield routes, not just screens and checkdowns).  A true homerun back like this puts pressure on a defense on every down.  The Patriots are wrecking the league with Lewis right now.

 

PS - Luck needs to have a full recovery.  The o-line needs to continue to get better and keep Luck upright.

[Malakai432]

3 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

So, most of you can put away your pitchforks and torches for a short period, and celebrate. But what have we really achieved? Perhaps too early to understand the long term strategy, but we could be in a bigger mess than before, and that is saying something. Our 'new guy' better have some off season, that is for sure. Or maybe Irsay has still to play his Trump card. If we were going to clean house, we should have cleaned it out entirely, now we are left with a lingering coach with his head in a noose. Not the best motivational situation at all. Good luck, let the insults begin......

 

IMO, the Colts have a lot of holes to fill.  Not only on the D side of the ball but also offensively.  I personally don't think releasing Grigs is going to make that much of an impact at all in the short run.  Fortunately, the Colts have Luck.  Even though I'm setting my expectations at .500, pending on what they do in the offseason could change that complexion.  Grigson though could've still nailed it in the draft and FA to achieve the desired results but in the long run I have a feeling this move needed to be made.  As you said also, who knows what will happen going forward.  Does Irsay have any tricks up his sleeve?

 

A LOT of work needs to be done if this team is trying to achieve it's ultimate goal.

[SaturdayAllDay]

We aren't out of the woods yet, but I think if grigsons attitude and the tension in the building is half as bad as all these former players are coming out and making it, then getting rid of grigson for that reason alone should help the team. Even if our new GM whiffs his first offseason, at least there won't be internal struggles on the inside. 

[DougDew]

10 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

So, most of you can put away your pitchforks and torches for a short period, and celebrate. But what have we really achieved? Perhaps too early to understand the long term strategy, but we could be in a bigger mess than before, and that is saying something. Our 'new guy' better have some off season, that is for sure. Or maybe Irsay has still to play his Trump card. If we were going to clean house, we should have cleaned it out entirely, now we are left with a lingering coach with his head in a noose. Not the best motivational situation at all. Good luck, let the insults begin......

Firing is the easy part.  Hiring a better replacement is always the hard part.

 

As Bill Parcells would say...you are what you are...so going 8-8 two years in a row suggests Irsay has a 50% chance of hiring somebody worse than Grigson.

 

I assume there is more to the firing than what most people here know.

[GoColts8818]

We won't know until we see what the new GM does and what the Colts look like on the field.  

 

What we do know is that the Colts had gone backwards the past couple of years so change is a reasonable response IMO.

[fatboy]

I at least won't fear drafting a QB in the first round of the next draft, and then hear how he was projected so much higher that it was a great pick.

[The Fish]

Gosh, I'm so bummed Grigson got fired. 

 

lol. Whatever. 

 

Yes, we got rid of a bottom 3 GM who literally drove people nuts (a shrink came in? lol) . We're better for it. It's pretty obvious. 

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

21 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Gosh, I'm so bummed Grigson got fired. 

 

lol. Whatever. 

 

Yes, we got rid of a bottom 3 GM who literally drove people nuts (a shrink came in? lol) . We're better for it. It's pretty obvious. 

 

It's painfully obvious. Some posters have no logic(like this thread)

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Yeah we got better via addition by subtraction.  Headcases have no place in a business.  Especially an NFL front office of the the team I'm a fan of lol. 

 

The evidence against him is pretty damning as a bad GM and now the new evidence is showing that he wasn't really a good guy either.  

[dgambill]

8 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

Thanks man.  When I saw that "infographic," for lack of a better word, it was probably one of the most compelling (and succinct) cases I have seen against Grigson.  I'm sure you felt the same when you saw it.

 

Parry, one of the 3 players still on the roster from that list, has been pretty average (unfortunately).  The kid plays hard, but on a roster with plenty of DL talent, Parry would be a limited snaps type of guy.

 

 

Green should have never started.  That was born out of pure necessity/lack of bodies.  Same for the o-line.  Kelly deserved to be a day one starter.  But Haeg probably needed limited snaps/more development, and it took Clark nearly the entire year to see the field (jury is still out on Haeg and Clark but I'm personally optimistic).

 

And I wasn't trying to cherry pick.  I explicitly stated that my list focused only on defensive draft picks.  I thought the defensive picks warranted a hard look since there are only 3 bodies left from the '12-'15 draft classes.

 

Furthermore, 5+ years into Grigson's regime, the Colts just fielded the worst defense in the history of the franchise (i.e., the Indy franchise).

 

I wish Grigson, the man, nothing but the best.  As a GM, good riddance lol. 

Not to pick a fight because Grigson has made plenty of mistakes but the GM works with the coaches in personnel decisions. I think it's very possible and even likely that Chuck has a lot of input on the roster. We have seen a pretty different approach with both sides of the ball. You may tout how poorly the draft picks have been but Grigson has spent way way way more money and free agent acquisitions on the defense than the offense. He also has brought in significant starters on the defense. Davis, DQ, Adams, Walden, Robinson, Cole, Jones, Langford and many others in the past like Toler and Landry. It could be Pagano likes working with veterens (I remember he made comments about that) and prefers them in their system while Grigson choose to build the offense through the draft to grow around Luck and that Andrew was a strong enough leader and player to carry these younger players. I think the plan was that at first but then to transition into a more balanced process as time went on. The plan wasn't bad nexessarly but in the end it comes down to players developing and talent acquisition. It just didn't work out. Grigson swung and missed too much...and we ended up at this point...but I think Chuck had his hand in this too. I also think we haven't brought players along very well either...through development and that's on Chuck and his staff too. I'm not laying this all at Ryan's feet....but his feet were responsible for bringing us here and he had to be held accountable for it. Chucks time for accountability may be coming soon too.

[21isSuperman]

We got rid of dead weight.  Grigson's bad decisions have put in a situation where we're rebuilding/re-tooling when we should be Super Bowl contenders.  The next GM might not be good either, but getting rid of Grigson was a good decision.  He was holding the team back

[smittywerb]

8 hours ago, Malakai432 said:

 

IMO, the Colts have a lot of holes to fill.  Not only on the D side of the ball but also offensively.  I personally don't think releasing Grigs is going to make that much of an impact at all in the short run.  Fortunately, the Colts have Luck.  Even though I'm setting my expectations at .500, pending on what they do in the offseason could change that complexion.  Grigson though could've still nailed it in the draft and FA to achieve the desired results but in the long run I have a feeling this move needed to be made.  As you said also, who knows what will happen going forward.  Does Irsay have any tricks up his sleeve?

 

A LOT of work needs to be done if this team is trying to achieve it's ultimate goal.

 

I don't think the offensive side of the ball is THAT bad.  Sure up the right side of the line and grab a #2 WR somehow and everything looks much better.

 

I think the defense is actually the problem.  Henry, vontae, and butler, thats it.  

[deedub75]

I think Pagano is a lame duck. It's possible that whoever Irsay wanted to hire did not want to take over the team this year because of how bad the roster is. Maybe Irsay realizes that the team will not be very good next season. 

[zibby43]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Not to pick a fight because Grigson has made plenty of mistakes but the GM works with the coaches in personnel decisions. I think it's very possible and even likely that Chuck has a lot of input on the roster. We have seen a pretty different approach with both sides of the ball. You may tout how poorly the draft picks have been but Grigson has spent way way way more money and free agent acquisitions on the defense than the offense. He also has brought in significant starters on the defense. Davis, DQ, Adams, Walden, Robinson, Cole, Jones, Langford and many others in the past like Toler and Landry. It could be Pagano likes working with veterens (I remember he made comments about that) and prefers them in their system while Grigson choose to build the offense through the draft to grow around Luck and that Andrew was a strong enough leader and player to carry these younger players. I think the plan was that at first but then to transition into a more balanced process as time went on. The plan wasn't bad nexessarly but in the end it comes down to players developing and talent acquisition. It just didn't work out. Grigson swung and missed too much...and we ended up at this point...but I think Chuck had his hand in this too. I also think we haven't brought players along very well either...through development and that's on Chuck and his staff too. I'm not laying this all at Ryan's feet....but his feet were responsible for bringing us here and he had to be held accountable for it. Chucks time for accountability may be coming soon too.

 

I don't think you were trying to pick a fight at all.  I thought your reply was very respectful and well-articulated.  I appreciate that.  

 

I think you raise some very valid points as well.  

[azcolt]

The major impact so far is happier faces on certain players and that of one lucky head coach. That fact alone may not mean anything to the W-L record. These happy guys were awful in many big games playing for a guy they suppposedly love. What is different today that matters?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

12 minutes ago, azcolt said:

The major impact so far is happier faces on certain players and that of one lucky head coach. That fact alone may not mean anything to the W-L record. These happy guys were awful in many big games playing for a guy they suppposedly love. What is different today that matters?

 Grigson isn't the GM?

[Coltsman1788]

13 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

So, most of you can put away your pitchforks and torches for a short period, and celebrate. But what have we really achieved? Perhaps too early to understand the long term strategy, but we could be in a bigger mess than before, and that is saying something. Our 'new guy' better have some off season, that is for sure. Or maybe Irsay has still to play his Trump card. If we were going to clean house, we should have cleaned it out entirely, now we are left with a lingering coach with his head in a noose. Not the best motivational situation at all. Good luck, let the insults begin......

No insults here. I just think you should let it all play out before pressing the panic button. The franchise just rid itself of a toxic GM.  That is good enough for the moment.  Let's see how the rest of the process unfolds.  I am sure Irsay has a plan. He has earned a little trust in my book from what he did this weekend. 

[azcolt]

48 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

 Grigson isn't the GM?

But his right hand man is and he has been here long enough for his fingerprints to be on all of the horrible personnel moves.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

4 minutes ago, azcolt said:

But his right hand man is and he has been here long enough for his fingerprints to be on all of the horrible personnel moves.

We don't know if Raye is a carbon copy of grigs, or the polar opposite. I'd rather get someone else too.. but the hate for Raye isn't fair right now. 

[throwing BBZ]

14 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

So, most of you can put away your pitchforks and torches for a short period, and celebrate. But what have we really achieved? Perhaps too early to understand the long term strategy, but we could be in a bigger mess than before, and that is saying something. Our 'new guy' better have some off season, that is for sure. Or maybe Irsay has still to play his Trump card. If we were going to clean house, we should have cleaned it out entirely, now we are left with a lingering coach with his head in a noose. Not the best motivational situation at all. Good luck, let the insults begin......

 

 Jibberish and blather.
 The not very good players have shown they do not quit with Pagano.
  So we let Irsay find a guy that is easier to get along with and has the vision and ability to find players that have the right size and mobility to play in today's game.

[ManningGM]

13 hours ago, Green_Ranger said:

If the Colts hire from within and go with Jimmy Raye.. I'm going to be very disappointed.

 

And as long as Chucky P is here.. this team is going nowhere.

Agreed.

[JColts72]

No, because still have same unprepared and outcoached chuck still here.