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So There's Tension Between Grigson And Pagano?

PeterBowman

By PeterBowman
in Colts Football

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krunk Ring of Honor

krunk

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This article speaks about the extension as if this was just offered to him yesterday.  The extension was offered back in March and Pagano turned it down.  It's not new news.  This stuff has already been discussed to be honest. 

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antipatriot Walk On

antipatriot

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Although I agree the source is well.....

 

If we get thumped in the playoffs again I dont think Chuck will be back. 

 

I haven't decided whether that is good or bad yet.  I do know I like the guy when he speaks seems like a stand up guy and I like what our team has done since both Chuck and Grigs have been here.  I just as I mentioned hope we dont get rolled over in the playoffs again, losing is one thing but what we have done well that is something completely different.

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Jdubu Practice Squad

Jdubu

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Doesn't surprise me one bit. Outside of Pagano having a resume of having a defense from Baltimore, which had previously already need established by another defensive coordinator before him, and his resume as a very good defensive backs coach, Pagano has done some head scratchers as a head coach here in Indy. His defense hasn't set anything apart from any other teams defense and his decisions at times with clock, calls and challenges just haven't been anything that's really stood out. Having an Andrew Luck has made this team 100% better than it would be with many other QB's not named P Manning.

Now a lot of what has happened with personnel could simply be due to the GM picking players that pagano was against and said wouldn't fit and Griggs said make them fit because I like them and they are now a Colt, we don't know this part and never will unless someone writes a book down the line. Just the sideline decisions alone have made me wonder really how good is Pagano as a head coach versus his value is a coordinator? I'm not bashing Pagano, just pointing out things I think are noticeable question marks in why there could be tension in the Giggs/Pags camp.

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TKnight24 Walk On

TKnight24

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Only thing I can see tension over is the Dorsett pick. 2 defensive guys on the board in Brown & Collins but we go offense. Maybe the defensive minded Pagano wanted defense, Irsay & Grigson wanted offense.

Other than that, I really don't see how there'd be tension. I think Grigson has made the right moves to give Chuck the defense he wanted and Pep the offense he needed (yes, needed not wanted)

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Andrew Luck fan club Walk On

Andrew Luck fan club

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Only thing I can see tension over is the Dorsett pick. 2 defensive guys on the board in Brown & Collins but we go offense. Maybe the defensive minded Pagano wanted defense, Irsay & Grigson wanted offense.

Other than that, I really don't see how there'd be tension. I think Grigson has made the right moves to give Chuck the defense he wanted and Pep the offense he needed (yes, needed not wanted)

I can see chuck being upset about selecting Dorsett over Brown. Even though I seriously seriously doubt there was ever any tension because of it.
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superrep1967 Team Captain

superrep1967

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Doesn't surprise me one bit. Outside of Pagano having a resume of having a defense from Baltimore, which had previously already need established by another defensive coordinator before him, and his resume as a very good defensive backs coach, Pagano has done some head scratchers as a head coach here in Indy. His defense hasn't set anything apart from any other teams defense and his decisions at times with clock, calls and challenges just haven't been anything that's really stood out. Having an Andrew Luck has made this team 100% better than it would be with many other QB's not named P Manning.

Now a lot of what has happened with personnel could simply be due to the GM picking players that pagano was against and said wouldn't fit and Griggs said make them fit because I like them and they are now a Colt, we don't know this part and never will unless someone writes a book down the line. Just the sideline decisions alone have made me wonder really how good is Pagano as a head coach versus his value is a coordinator? I'm not bashing Pagano, just pointing out things I think are noticeable question marks in why there could be tension in the Giggs/Pags camp.

There's always tenions between cosch and GM there's different opions on just about everything but nothing to be concerned about. I have tenions all the time with my family and wife but nothing to worry about.
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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

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For a moment,  let's assume that it's true.    That's there's tension brewing.

 

It's not an unreasonable thought that there might be some hard feelings right now....

 

OK....

 

But nowhere in the story was it noted that this is the exact same approach Jerry Jones took with Jason Garrett last year....   Oh, and it worked.      From 8-8 to 12-4.

 

But as others here have noted,  there was no NEW news in this story.   There was not a single quote from an off-the-record, unnamed source.    Not one.    There were quotes from Colts players, but all on the record.     There was nothing new.

 

Oh,  and it also was never noted that Irsay has -- I believe TWICE -- said this off-season that this year is NOT a Super Bowl or Bust season for Grigson.     I mean,  even if you don't believe it,  if you're doing this story,  that tidbit is kind of important.   Irsay has denied it more than once.

 

Honestly,  I don't think we're in a Super Bowl or bust year.    But I think Irsay wants to see improvement.   He doesn't want to see us blown-out by the good teams on our schedule,  like NE (twice)  like Dallas,  like Pittsburgh, etc.     I think he can take losing in the playoffs,  as long as we're not getting outclassed by our opponent.    We've got to play like we belong there and not just occupying space.

 

I think if we win 12 games, and cut down on the blowouts and make a deep run in the playoffs,  I think Chuck stays....

 

But if this year looks like last year,  then it's 50-50 at best.......

 

Just thinking out loud.....

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bestQBever Team Captain

bestQBever

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Guys we have a terrible GM, A terrible Coach, a terrible O line, a terrible defense. 11-5? AFCCG? horrible. I think our franchise is cursed. how do we have so many horrible things going for us? I think we might go 12-4 this year and might get to /win the superbowl. It's just horrible.

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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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Guys we have a terrible GM, A terrible Coach, a terrible O line, a terrible defense. 11-5? AFCCG? horrible. I think our franchise is cursed. how do we have so many horrible things going for us? I think we might go 12-4 this year and might get to /win the superbowl. It's just horrible.

No it's just ALL because of Andrew Luck.  He's the only good thing our franchise has.  Just for the record that was said with A LOT of sarcasm. 

 

In seriousness I think Pagano's contract status has to do with Irsay and not Grigson.  If Irsay wants Pagano here he'll be here if he wants him gone he'll be gone.  Grigson will just make whatever Irsay wants happen. 

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Defjamz26 Ring of Honor

Defjamz26

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The only tension I've ever sensed between the two is over our first round pick this year. Grigson seemed ecstatic over the pick when he talked about it during the press conference the next day, while Pagano seemed "meh" over the pick.

Besides that it seems like they're on good terms.

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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

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Meh....so Pagano is average-ish...so what...everybody knows it.

The question is what does it take in a head coach to win the Lombardi?

...probably more than Coach Chuck.

 

Who is "everybody" who knows it?

 

I don't think the majority of posters here think that.     Yes, there's a certain group here who do,  but I think that group is not the majority.

 

But that doesn't even matter.     Because I think Irsay and Grigson are the only two who matter,  and I think if they thought Pagano was "average-ish"   he wouldn't be our coach today.     They would've let him go and hired someone else.     They're not going to waste a year of Andrew Luck's career on an average-ish coach.

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chrisfarley Practice Squad

chrisfarley

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I was only surprised to see that Pagano is listed as a DT, kinda small for that position if you ask me.

Yea, a 54 year-old Defensive Tackle who has no tackles, no sacks, no nothing !!!  How dare he.  He even has an Error in his files.  Oldest player in the league has gotta go!!!!! 

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theanarchist Walk On

theanarchist

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Although I agree the source is well.....

 

If we get thumped in the playoffs again I dont think Chuck will be back. 

 

I haven't decided whether that is good or bad yet.  I do know I like the guy when he speaks seems like a stand up guy and I like what our team has done since both Chuck and Grigs have been here.  I just as I mentioned hope we dont get rolled over in the playoffs again, losing is one thing but what we have done well that is something completely different.

I agree with most of your post. I think Chuck is gone if we don't make a strong playoff run. Im not sure hes gone if we fail to make the super bowl tho. That's asking a lot and I think the GM has to take responsibility for the roster. Grigson has put together a nice roster but there are weaknesses and it isn't all coaching. However, I will say that I could definitely see Chuck not being offered a contract if we under achieve. Maybe Grigson only offered the 1 year deal to light a fire. Maybe he has someone else he prefers to be the head coach and is setting this up so that he can make his move by making the stakes too high for Chuck to achieve. Hard to say but I will say that there is a lot of core talent on this team that many coaches would love to have.

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mvbighead Walk On

mvbighead

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Only thing I can see tension over is the Dorsett pick. 2 defensive guys on the board in Brown & Collins but we go offense. Maybe the defensive minded Pagano wanted defense, Irsay & Grigson wanted offense.

Other than that, I really don't see how there'd be tension. I think Grigson has made the right moves to give Chuck the defense he wanted and Pep the offense he needed (yes, needed not wanted)

 

Honestly, sitting back and looking at the draft after complete, I really have to believe that they were planning on getting the NT, DE, and SS that they did get, and where they got them.

 

So they are setting up their board, and they have each of those guys in mind in the middle rounds.  So come the 1st pick, and a freakish athlete with what they feel are legitimate ball skills falls into their lap... yeah, I have no problems with that pick, and I doubt either of them do or did.

 

Heck, the terrible Rams were in the top 10 and drafted a Hilton clone in Tavon Austin who thus far has yet to work out.  Most drafts, teams tend to let smaller players fall and take the guys who are prototypical for their positions.  And we used a very late pick in round 1 to nab yet another one, and one who appears to be a potential difference maker.

 

The video I remember watching during the draft had a bunch of high fives, including Pagano and Grigson.  So when I look at it, I don't think Dorsett being an item of tension.  And when I look at how we failed to move the ball against the Pats because they had a safety over the top on Hilton pretty much every play, you can see exactly where that selection came from.

 

As for the article... meh.  The deal will get done or it won't.  I like Pagano, and doubt we'll do much better.  But at the same time, Dungy was given a long time.  We did get that SB, but part of me wonders if we had a coach like Pagano with the scheme we have now, if we could have done a bit more on defense during the Manning years and had 1 or 2 more SB wins.  As it was, we only had a few run stuffers on the Dungy D's, and the Polian era would seldom make a few modest DT signings like Grigson has (Redding/Jones/Langford/etc).  And that is not to say that Grigson's guys are great (Redding was), but they certainly were a bit better than we typically had during the Dungy/Polian era.

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Defjamz26 Ring of Honor

Defjamz26

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Honestly, sitting back and looking at the draft after complete, I really have to believe that they were planning on getting the NT, DE, and SS that they did get, and where they got them.

 

So they are setting up their board, and they have each of those guys in mind in the middle rounds.  So come the 1st pick, and a freakish athlete with what they feel are legitimate ball skills falls into their lap... yeah, I have no problems with that pick, and I doubt either of them do or did.

 

Heck, the terrible Rams were in the top 10 and drafted a Hilton clone in Tavon Austin who thus far has yet to work out.  Most drafts, teams tend to let smaller players fall and take the guys who are prototypical for their positions.  And we used a very late pick in round 1 to nab yet another one, and one who appears to be a potential difference maker.

 

The video I remember watching during the draft had a bunch of high fives, including Pagano and Grigson.  So when I look at it, I don't think Dorsett being an item of tension.  And when I look at how we failed to move the ball against the Pats because they had a safety over the top on Hilton pretty much every play, you can see exactly where that selection came from.

 

As for the article... meh.  The deal will get done or it won't.  I like Pagano, and doubt we'll do much better.  But at the same time, Dungy was given a long time.  We did get that SB, but part of me wonders if we had a coach like Pagano with the scheme we have now, if we could have done a bit more on defense during the Manning years and had 1 or 2 more SB wins.  As it was, we only had a few run stuffers on the Dungy D's, and the Polian era would seldom make a few modest DT signings like Grigson has (Redding/Jones/Langford/etc).  And that is not to say that Grigson's guys are great (Redding was), but they certainly were a bit better than we typically had during the Dungy/Polian era.

Watch the press conference with Pagano and Grigson after they drafted Dorsett. You can tell Pagano wasn't as excited about the pick as Grigson. And think about it. Not only is Pagano a defensive minded coach, he's also a DB guru.

You're sitting there in the low 20s and Landon Collins is there. He's the top safety, and Pagano coached guys like Ed Reed and Bernard Pollard, who were both physical safeties. I think if it was his call he would have taken Collins. Don't get me wrong, I like the selection of Dorsett and I'm sure Chuck did too in a sense. And Geathers had just as high of a ceiling, but I'm looking at it from Chuck's view. He might have also liked to get Malcolm Brown as well, but given his DB roots, he probably would've been jumping for joy for Collins. Watch the pressed conference and pay attention to Pagano's tone and expression and you'll see what I'm talking about.

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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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Watch the press conference with Pagano and Grigson after they drafted Dorsett. You can tell Pagano wasn't as excited about the pick as Grigson. And think about it. Not only is Pagano a defensive minded coach, he's also a DB guru.

You're sitting there in the low 20s and Landon Collins is there. He's the top safety, and Pagano coached guys like Ed Reed and Bernard Pollard, who were both physical safeties. I think if it was his call he would have taken Collins. Don't get me wrong, I like the selection of Dorsett and I'm sure Chuck did too in a sense. And Geathers had just as high of a ceiling, but I'm looking at it from Chuck's view. He might have also liked to get Malcolm Brown as well, but given his DB roots, he probably would've been jumping for joy for Collins. Watch the pressed conference and pay attention to Pagano's tone and expression and you'll see what I'm talking about.

could very well be but coaches and GMs don't always agree on draft picks Dungy told a story once of how he had to sell Polian on Freeny and how Polian had to sell Dungy on Sanders. So I wouldn't read too much into that.
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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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Andrew Luck and the division are why the team has done well. They beat an injured Peyton and got trucked by the Pats. Pagano has to answer for that.

six wins are only half of the wins they have had over the past two years. As had been well documented they have beaten several good teams outside of the division in those other games. Unless the Seahawks, 49ers, Ravens, Broncos(twice), a playoff Chiefs team and Bengals team (best both twice by the way) also stink the Colts have held their own against good teams over the past couple of years.
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BProland85 Ring of Honor

BProland85

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Honestly there should be pressure on both. Grigson has missed on plenty of free agents and draft picks, and needs to be more consistent with hits.

Pagano needs to vastly improve what he has preached since being here (stopping the run and running the ball on offense)

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krunk Ring of Honor

krunk

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I don't think there's much of any tension between the two.  Pagano has been pretty excited over the roster so to me it couldn't be about the players Grigson has selected.  I don't there's much going on about the contract either.  Irsay himself said he wanted to see Chuck play 2015 out. Honestly chuck hasn't even coached the full amount of the contract anyway, he was gone much of the 1st season getting chemotherapy.  What does Irsays decision have to do with Grigson? Not much if you ask me.  The only tension I could see is Grigson maybe getting on Chuck about some of the awful coaching in these big games.  I really don't see what they could have signicant tension about.  The team is winning for crying out loud, I can remember Dungy and Polian getting booted out of the 1st round of the playofffs on more than one occasion.  Pagano and Grigson have made significant progress in the playoffs each year so why would Irsay want to give Pagano the boot?  It's just silly talk to me.

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