Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)

[Superman]

22 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Dorsett has a place in an offense, just not one that warranted a 1st round pick.

 

I agree with that, but he's definitely not lighting the league on fire with the Pats. 

 

He's on pace for the best season of his career: 40 catches, 516 yards, 8 TDs. That's just as pedestrian as JB's projected 3,000 yards, 20 TDs and 7 picks. Both teams did well in that trade, but we got a QB2 and they got a WR3/4.

[Coffeedrinker]

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What are we doing, guys?

Just acknowledging that the comment is a possibility.  I do agree with don't have enough evidence yet to draw a conclusion.

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Ballard hasn't made a single move that would be a true reflection of his ability to evaluate QBs. He's never even drafted a QB. He added a backup QB at cut down day, and due to circumstances, that backup has started 25 games for us. At no point before this summer did Chris Ballard -- or anyone else, for that matter -- expect JB to be the starting QB for the Colts.

 

And by the way, saying that JB probably isn't good enough to be a franchise QB is a far different thing than saying that JB isn't good at all. 

All true.

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Elway has drafted six QBs, three of them were in the first two rounds. JB is as good as any of them.

 

Let's slow down on evaluating Ballard's ability to evaluate QBs. There's no book on that yet.

Not comparing him to Elway, just listing a couple of examples of where GMs have blind spots.

[Coffeedrinker]

42 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The question was about the benefit, the impact, of YAC yards.  5.5 YAC yards divided by 10 total passing yards is 55 percent, but YAC has no impact because the universe is so small.   Ranking teams by their percentage does not answer the question..that's elementary.

 

The question was answered by giving only the stat, not the universe too.

 

Math is better used to measure known quantities, and to determine variables when measured against a known constant.  Football doesn't have hardly any known constants.   It involves variables, almost exclusively.  

 

Case in point:  HOU has a bad passing defense, statistically.  So what?  

 

Was that a stat computed before the addition of Hardgraves?  And was their 35 year old CB able to cover one on one every other teams (gimpy) #1 WR?   

 

Again, stats are used to answer something when you don't have good information to form an answer.  They are not a very good way to answer any question.  They are only useful when you understand almost nothing else about a situation.

I don't know if this is the best post ever that has a lot of words and says absolutely nothing but it's in the top 10%.  (and that is 10% whether you use big numbers or small numbers)

 

But I will admit, YAC percentage does not answer any question.  For example, if someone asked which baseball team has the most runners left of base, YAC percentage would not be a good answer.  But when the question is, which team has the highest percentage of YAC, then I would say it's an excellent answer.

 

 

 

[DougDew]

Just now, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't know if this is the best post ever that has a lot of words and says absolutely nothing but it's in the top 10%.  (and that is 10% whether you use big numbers or small numbers)

 

But I will admit, YAC percentage does not answer any question.  For example, if someone asked which baseball team has the most runners left of base, YAC percentage would not be a good answer.  But when the question is, which team has the highest percentage of YAC, then I would say it's an excellent answer.

 

 

 

Actually you have it the opposite, which I've noticed is the theme of most of your answers.  

 

Answering my question by stating the percentage of YAC, is what says nothing. 

 

Glad to see our investment in oline is really helping us get to the SB though. Can't wait to get that Lombardi trophy for winning the pancake competition.

 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Actually you have it the opposite, which I've noticed is the theme of most of your answers.  

 

Answering my question by stating the percentage of YAC, is what says nothing. 

And you keep changing the topic of your posts.  At first it was the size of the numbers and now it's stats are meaningless because whomever looks at stats only does so because they they don't know what they are seeing.  Blah, blah, rinse, repeat.

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Glad to see our investment in oline is really helping us get to the SB though. Can't wait to get that Lombardi trophy for winning the pancake competition.

 

 

Oh, lookie there another change of topic.  Hmmm, what a shocker.

[Superman]

26 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Just acknowledging that the comment is a possibility.  I do agree with don't have enough evidence yet to draw a conclusion.

All true.

Not comparing him to Elway, just listing a couple of examples of where GMs have blind spots.

 

Didn't mean to jump on you. The comment was for the room.

 

But regarding blind spots, as true as that is at times, we usually base it on a pattern of trying and failing.

 

If I built custom cars, you wouldn't judge my ability to do so on the basis of a couple salvage jobs that I worked on. You'd reserve judgment until you saw a real custom project.

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

Another national media saying Brissett is the future. Just gonna leave it here. 
 

 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

 

 

Glad to see our investment in oline is really helping us get to the SB though. Can't wait to get that Lombardi trophy for winning the pancake competition.

 

 

The O-line is the thing that is keeping us in the playoff hunt.  Without it we'd be similar to the 2017 team.  We were primed for a Super Bowl run and then our starting QB quit.  

[Nickster]

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

The O-line is the thing that is keeping us in the playoff hunt.  Without it we'd be similar to the 2017 team.  We were primed for a Super Bowl run and then our starting QB quit.  

 

Yep.  We are kinda screwed man.  Really tough situation.  Being competitive is acually a negative this year.  

 

We are going to need to be very fortunate in QB search.  (Notice I didn't say Lucky.)

 

We need a guy who can throw or run. JB can't really do either.  I don't think we need superstar, just a guy who can read and react an a top 10-12 type of level.  That might happen or not.  Too bad Andrew didn't quit eariler, we could have had Foles.  Yes he got hurt, but he would be they type I think this team could get by with.

[ColtsBlueFL]

32 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Another national media saying Brissett is the future. Just gonna leave it here. 
 

 

"2nd tier QB that, after they sign him, leaves the team money to build around him. "

 

That's what I heard. Is that what Irsay wants?  I know most fans don't...

[Nickster]

3 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

"2nd tier QB that, after they sign him, leaves the team money to build around him. "

 

That's what I heard. Is that what Irsay wants?  I know most fans don't...

 

I'd be willing to take a gamble that would hurt (for me like a 50 spot), and say they haven't seen JB play much if at all.  

[krunk]

I think JB will still be here when it's all said and done.  At least 1 more season. 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

11 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think JB will still be here when it's all said and done.  At least 1 more season. 

yes ballard went out and traded for him so he must like him, 

[esmort]

36 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

yes ballard went out and traded for him so he must like him, 

 

He liked him as a back up, which is what he traded for. He didn't trade for him with the intention of him being the franchise; he would still be a great back up ... but a franchise QB - Probably Not IMO

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

40 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

He liked him as a back up, which is what he traded for. He didn't trade for him with the intention of him being the franchise; he would still be a great back up ... but a franchise QB - Probably Not IMO

a quality backup should be able to create a qb battle for the starting position or he is not good enough to be a backup in my opinion, a good backup should not create a big drop in scoring

[esmort]

1 minute ago, DEFENSE said:

a quality backup should be able to create a qb battle for the starting position or he is not good enough to be a backup in my opinion, a good backup should not create a big drop in scoring

 

You can't be serious; if your back up is pushing your starter you need to re-evaluate your QB situation ... how many back up QBs in the NFL could actually compete for the starting position on their teams (not counting rookies specifically drafted with the intention of sitting a year before taking over from a "place holder").  Most back up QBs are back ups for a reason (they aren't starter material).

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

bengals,bronks,giants,fins,skins,cards,titans all have qb controversies the backup is pushing the starter

[jvan1973]

18 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

bengals,bronks,giants,fins,skins,cards,titans all have qb controversies the backup is pushing the starter

All those teams have terrible starting qbs.  

[jvan1973]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Actually you have it the opposite, which I've noticed is the theme of most of your answers.  

 

Answering my question by stating the percentage of YAC, is what says nothing. 

 

Glad to see our investment in oline is really helping us get to the SB though. Can't wait to get that Lombardi trophy for winning the pancake competition.

 

 

I know this is hard for you to understand.    The franchise QB retired.    The bad olines of the past is part of the reason for that.   This line was built for Andrew.      He would thrive behind this line.   However,  he retired.    Now we have a great line,  and an ok qb.  An obvious big difference for anyone to see.    Had Grigson been better at evaluating o line talent,   maybe Luck is still here.     What is stumping you in this scenario?

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

All those teams have terrible starting qbs.  

a lot of posters on this forum think we do too, one of those terrible qbs beat us and we have to face the titans terrible qb next

[jvan1973]

Just now, DEFENSE said:

a lot of posters on this forum think we do too, one of those terrible qbs beat us and we have to face the titans terrible qb next

Most qbs could have beat us if our qb turns the ball over at will and we miss kicks.    Has little to do with the opposing offense

[esmort]

59 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

bengals,bronks,giants,fins,skins,cards,titans all have qb controversies the backup is pushing the starter

 

None of these are indicative of your narrative that a good back up QB should be pushing the starter.  None back up your point "that a quality back up should be creating a QB battle".  At least 2 teams getting ready to draft a QB high, 3 with their recent rookies stepping in as intended, and 2 messes - who the heck knows whats going on. Unless the team drafted a rookie relatively high most starters are not looking over their shoulders worried about the back up taking their job. 

 

Bengals - Dalton on his way out and they are seeing what Finley has before they draft a QB #1

 

Broncos - Haven't had a clue at QB since manning (Lock - their drafted 2nd rnd rookie is on IR)

 

Giants - no controversy they drafted Eli's replacement (Jones was never meant to be a long term back up)

 

Miami - there is no real starter just a place holder for whoever they draft

 

Skins - no controversy the rookie they drafted in the 1st rnd is finally getting in (plus the true original starter is on IR)

 

Cards - no controversy

 

Titans - re-evaluate - Mariota was on his way out before Tannehill ever entered the picture.

 

 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

7 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

None of these are indicative of your narrative that a good back up QB should be pushing the starter.  None back up your point "that a quality back up should be creating a QB battle".  At least 2 teams getting ready to draft a QB high, 3 with their recent rookies stepping in as intended, and 2 messes - who the heck knows whats going on. Unless the team drafted a rookie relatively high most starters are not looking over their shoulders worried about the back up taking their job. 

 

Bengals - Dalton on his way out and they are seeing what Finley has before they draft a QB #1

 

Broncos - Haven't had a clue at QB since manning (Lock - their drafted 2nd rnd rookie is on IR)

 

Giants - no controversy they drafted Eli's replacement (Jones was never meant to be a long term back up)

 

Miami - there is no real starter just a place holder for whoever they draft

 

Skins - no controversy the rookie they drafted in the 1st rnd is finally getting in (plus the true original starter is on IR)

 

Cards - no controversy

 

Titans - re-evaluate - Mariota was on his way out before Tannehill ever entered the picture.

 

 

are you saying that a backup should not be very good?

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

I was listening to 1% better podcast and Stephen holder said it is important to remind everyone that the locker room loves Jacoby. If he leads them to the playoffs with everything that has happened:

 

(The following has missed time)

Hilton,Ebron,Funchess,Mack,Campbell,Kelly,Leonard,Hooker,Desir,Turay,Willis ohh and let’s not forget LUCK RETIRED!!

 

HE WILL BE THE FRANCHISE QB

 

Also projecting his stats

 

Let’s say he averages 225 yards passing, picks up another 10 touchdowns and gets another 3 picks over the last 5 games and goes 4-1. @colts go 10-6. His year stats would be 3,051 passing, 25 TD, 7 INTS, playoffs for Colts

[esmort]

10 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

are you saying that a backup should not be very good?

 

Yeah that's what I am saying. 

 

I am saying your idea that a good back up pushes the starter into position battles is not correct.  I am sure all teams/GMs would love very good back ups ... but if a back up is so good he is pushing a legitimate quality starter year in and year out he won't be a back up very long because some team will make him a real starter - or - your "starter" is bad/not starter material and you need a new starter.

 

[krunk]

https://twitter.com/KBowen1070/status/1199402258028531718/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1199402258028531718&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Findianapolis-colts

[krunk]

 

[shasta519]

19 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

"2nd tier QB that, after they sign him, leaves the team money to build around him. "

 

That's what I heard. Is that what Irsay wants?  I know most fans don't...

 

This is honestly like my biggest fear for the Colts going forward. A "2nd tier QB" is subjective (if those tiers are 10 players...then I guess JB is 2nd tier)...but a 2nd tier contract has a pretty defined range at this point...and while it would be easier to build around that contract (than a top tier QB contract)...it won't be easy...and definitely not a good use of resources.

 

Ballard saw this strategy deployed in KC...and it did not work (if the desired goal is to get to and win a Super Bowl). He also was part of a Bears organization for more than a decade that had inconsistent seasons (largely due to middling to bad QB play)...except for one where everything fell together with a defense of the decade type team...and they still didn't win the Super Bowl.

 

I just can't believe...that Ballard would be on board with that quote. If I had Ballard's GMing skills...I would be like...

 

[shasta519]

14 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I was listening to 1% better podcast and Stephen holder said it is important to remind everyone that the locker room loves Jacoby. If he leads them to the playoffs with everything that has happened:

 

(The following has missed time)

Hilton,Ebron,Funchess,Mack,Campbell,Kelly,Leonard,Hooker,Desir,Turay,Willis ohh and let’s not forget LUCK RETIRED!!

 

HE WILL BE THE FRANCHISE QB

 

Also projecting his stats

 

Let’s say he averages 225 yards passing, picks up another 10 touchdowns and gets another 3 picks over the last 5 games and goes 4-1. @colts go 10-6. His year stats would be 3,051 passing, 25 TD, 7 INTS, playoffs for Colts

 

He has 5 passing TDs in his like 5.25 games...and that's because of the HOU game where he had 4. So in 4 of his last 5 games started (and finished)...he has 1 passing TD. 

 

Short of the Colts going crazy against TB in the passing game...getting 10 more passing TDs seems a bit unrealistic...as does his yards/game shooting up 30 yards.

 

Without Ebron and TY still banged up...the Colts are likely going to continue to run the ball...except for maybe the TB game.

[shasta519]

22 hours ago, Superman said:

 

This is a really bad angle for you.

 

Ballard trading for JB cost the Colts a WR that likely wasn't going to make the final roster anyway. It has no bearing on Ballard's ability to evaluate QBs. 

 

Agreed...it has nothing to do with Ballard's ability to evaluate QBs. Ballard didn't even seek out the trade...BB called him because Edelman got hurt and they needed a WR...and Ballard didn't really value Dorsett (not hard to see why)...and said "sure why not...I will take this potentially valuable asset for my asset that has no value."

 

 

[krunk]

Stampede Blue has plenty clips on Jacoby  Brissett passing issues:

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/11/27/20984835/film-room-jacoby-brissett-comes-up-short-in-a-big-divisional-game

[jvan1973]

On 11/26/2019 at 12:35 PM, DougDew said:

 

Reich worked with whom as a player?  Andre Reed, Pete Metzelaars, Thurman Thomas, Don Beebe.   He knows what he doesn't have this year.

 

 

Yeah,   he knows he doesn't have Jim Kelly

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, krunk said:

Stampede Blue has plenty clips on Jacoby  Brissett passing issues:

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/11/27/20984835/film-room-jacoby-brissett-comes-up-short-in-a-big-divisional-game

 

Thanks for the link, but Ooooooof that is just painful to read and watch. My eyes hurt so bad now lol.

 

Hard for even the most hard core apologist to say things like... 

"we need to upgrade WRs", or

"we need a deep threat WR", or

"WR injuries are killing us" or 

"our WRs and TEs are never open" or

"if we had Funchess and Campbell back, it would all be different" or 

"Cain never got open"

----------------------------------------------------------

 

@Chloe6124

@Four2itus

@Stephen

@Scott Pennock

 

What are your thoughts on

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/11/27/20984835/film-room-jacoby-brissett-comes-up-short-in-a-big-divisional-game

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

21 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

a quality backup should be able to create a qb battle for the starting position or he is not good enough to be a backup in my opinion, a good backup should not create a big drop in scoring

 

It's hard enough to find a starting quarterback in the NFL, one that allows you to seriously compete, and you're talking about we should have a backup QB that's as good as the starter? So, essentially 2 starters? Lol stop. 

[hoosierhawk]

5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Thanks for the link, but Ooooooof that is just painful to read and watch. My eyes hurt so bad now lol.

 

Hard for even the most hard core apologist to say things like... 

"we need to upgrade WRs", or

"we need a deep threat WR", or

"WR injuries are killing us" or 

"our WRs and TEs are never open" or

"if we had Funchess and Campbell back, it would all be different" or 

"Cain never got open"

----------------------------------------------------------

 

@Chloe6124

@Four2itus

@Stephen

@Scott Pennock

 

What are your thoughts on

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/11/27/20984835/film-room-jacoby-brissett-comes-up-short-in-a-big-divisional-game

Think you could include a dozen more to the list. DougyDew, Defense, etc.

These film shots could have been available all year.

[stitches]

20 hours ago, krunk said:

Stampede Blue has plenty clips on Jacoby  Brissett passing issues:

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/11/27/20984835/film-room-jacoby-brissett-comes-up-short-in-a-big-divisional-game

This is not even new. Although this game was particularly bad, it's not like @Superman and @EastStreet and @SteelCityColt and me haven't been posting very similar highlights already in multiple games. 

 

Now the new excuse is - it's not just Jacoby, every QB has plays like this. Which is true... to a point - yes every QB, even the best of them miss a throw here and there. The problem is with Jacoby it's not just here and there, it's consistent and persistent. It happens much more than with most other starting QBs in the league. The stats showing the passing inefficiency are not by accident, they reflect real things going on on the field... The first time I noticed it was when in a 2 minute video that was meant as a highlight video for Brissett you could find 2-3 plays where he was missing open receivers dowfield and opting out for check downs. This is not just a here and there thing... It's a continuous problem that was masked by the rest of the team in the beginning of the season but is starting to bite us in the * now and will continue to do so if not addressed and corrected...

[Colts_Fan12]

17 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Thanks for the link, but Ooooooof that is just painful to read and watch. My eyes hurt so bad now lol.

 

Hard for even the most hard core apologist to say things like... 

"we need to upgrade WRs", or

"we need a deep threat WR", or

"WR injuries are killing us" or 

"our WRs and TEs are never open" or

"if we had Funchess and Campbell back, it would all be different" or 

"Cain never got open"

----------------------------------------------------------

 

@Chloe6124

@Four2itus

@Stephen

@Scott Pennock

 

What are your thoughts on

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/11/27/20984835/film-room-jacoby-brissett-comes-up-short-in-a-big-divisional-game

can't forget number 2 in the JB fan club @Imgrandojji

 

even tho he has seemed to disappear after JB crapped the bed.

[Imgrandojji]

46 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

can't forget number 2 in the JB fan club @Imgrandojji

 

even tho he has seemed to disappear after JB crapped the bed.

I've been checking the forum but there hasn't been a ton to say.  The situation really hasn't changed in the last couple weeks.

 

In the last 2 games since getting back on the field in a knee brace he's had a much reduced role in the offense.  I don't know if that's by design but I suspect it is, and I strongly suspect he's at less than 100% 

 

I do know Reich tried to work Brissett into the offense at key moments in the last game and everything just seemed off.  Not sure what's up with that but he missed some really high percentage throws in the last game.

 

I still want to make it clear that Brissett's game looks a lot better on paper if TY catches either of the 2 footballs thrown to him on third down.  That's a play TY makes 100 times out of 100, no idea whether maybe Brissett's throw was a bit off, the defender got a piece of TY, could be a bunch of things.  To me though, both of those passes looked catchable.

 

It is really hard to accurately judge a quarterback's performance when his targets are questionable.

 

Brissett had an off game last week so it's time for the skeptics to run rampant.  It is what it is.  It'll be their turn to be suspiciously quiet if Brissett has a good game next week.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

2 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

I've been checking the forum but there hasn't been a ton to say.  The situation really hasn't changed in the last couple weeks.

 

In the last 2 games since getting back on the field in a knee brace he's had a much reduced role in the offense.  I don't know if that's by design but I suspect it is, and I strongly suspect he's at less than 100% 

 

I do know Reich tried to work Brissett into the offense at key moments in the last game and everything just seemed off.  Not sure what's up with that but he missed some really high percentage throws in the last game.

 

I still want to make it clear that Brissett's game looks a lot better on paper if TY catches either of the 2 footballs thrown to him on third down.  That's a play TY makes 100 times out of 100, no idea whether maybe Brissett's throw was a bit off, the defender got a piece of TY, could be a bunch of things.  To me though, both of those passes looked catchable.

 

It is really hard to accurately judge a quarterback's performance when his targets are questionable.

 

Brissett had an off game last week so it's time for the skeptics to run rampant.  It is what it is.  It'll be their turn to be suspiciously quiet if Brissett has a good game next week.

 

Thing is, it's a fairly large sample size, especially if you want to include 2017 (JB supporters do not lol). The numbers are what they are, and a better quarterback, a franchise QB (what we should ultimately be looking for) elevates the play of everyone around him. Look at Luck last year, he wasn't even in top form and nearly won MVP with a bunch of scrubs and TY Hilton. This set of weapons is remarkably similar to the ones Luck had, switch a guy here and there, except that JB has essentially had the entire oline intact all season (a major advantage). 

 

I don't see how people watching the product currently displayed can't say that selecting a quarterback -to at bare minimum compete with JB next year- isn't the best option? Worst case we hit on the lottery ticket and have our franchise guy for the next 10+ years, barring some catastrophic setback like Luck, which I think we can all agree is insanely rare. 

 

The only instance I could see them not taking someone is if they had their eyes on Lawrence or Fields in 2021, both of which I think are heads and tails above everyone in this class. On the other hand, I don't think they have it in them to purposely suck, regardless of how great the end result may be. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Thing is, it's a fairly large sample size, especially if you want to include 2017 (JB supporters do not lol). The numbers are what they are, and a better quarterback, a franchise QB (what we should ultimately be looking for) elevates the play of everyone around him. Look at Luck last year, he wasn't even in top form and nearly won MVP with a bunch of scrubs and TY Hilton. This set of weapons is remarkably similar to the ones Luck had, switch a guy here and there, except that JB has essentially had the entire oline intact all season (a major advantage). 

 

I don't see how people watching the product currently displayed can't say that selecting a quarterback -to at bare minimum compete with JB next year- isn't the best option? Worst case we hit on the lottery ticket and have our franchise guy for the next 10+ years, barring some catastrophic setback like Luck, which I think we can all agree is insanely rare. 

 

The only instance I could see them not taking someone is if they had their eyes on Lawrence or Fields in 2021, both of which I think are heads and tails above everyone in this class. On the other hand, I don't think they have it in them to purposely suck, regardless of how great the end result may be. 

It's clear the WR core has played a lot this year banged up or has missed games due to injury. Mack is out as well. Anyone with an open mind that doesn't support JB would look at the whole picture. JB has had a great O.Line and that is really it which is key but people that think our WR core is good are just wrong. Hell, Funchess hasn't played all year. It is average at best and TY has been injured all season pretty much even when he plays. He was probably 50% last week but gave it a go anyway because the game was big.

 

Also anyone that tries to include JB's 2017 season on how his career has been going is a joke. Luck would not have made the playoffs with that crappy bunch and coach, 8-8 at best. I am going by this year and 9 games is a small sample size and now TY is out again  this Sunday.