Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)

[CanuckColt]

12 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

So, I am a huge Brissett fan and like him a lot but i wanted to clear the air on some stuff. 
 

I was listening to the radio the other day and the host stated there was a difference between Franchise QB and Elite QB.
 

There are very few Elite ones in the league today and is what everyone is chasing. Elites are the Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Wilson. They are the generational talents that regularly compete for Superbowls. we had one of these in Manning and Luck. But they are gone and we have to move on. 
 

The other is Franchise. They are Qbs that will win anywhere from 9-12 games a year and occasionally compete for super bowls and go on deep playoff runs. They are the Qb that is really good but not generational. You stay with them because you can’t find anyone better (because elite is so hard to find). These are guys like Ryan, Stafford, Rivers, Dalton, Cousins. If surrounded by enough talent they can look elite at times. 
 

I believe that Brissett is a Franchise QB but probably not elite, based on this. I am okay with that. It is so hard to find a good starting level Qb and damn near impossible to get a generational elite one.  If given support he will take us to the playoffs and maybe a Super Bowl. Don’t take for granted making the playoffs. 

 

what do y’all think?

Brissett is neither "franchise" nor "elite"...and never will be.

He is just a good backup.

[EastStreet]

Interesting analytic from ESPN/Next Gen

 

Shows how good JB has it (top 5 pass blocking unit). Think about how JB and his high-time-to-throw would fare on other teams that don't hold nearly as well or long.

 

Also shows our pass rush on D has a ways to go. 

 

 

[MPStack]

27 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Interesting analytic from ESPN/Next Gen

 

Shows how good JB has it (top 5 pass blocking unit). Think about how JB and his high-time-to-throw would fare on other teams that don't hold nearly as well or long.

 

Also shows our pass rush on D has a ways to go. 

 

 

But.............. 

[TheMiz]

42 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

Brissett is neither "franchise" nor "elite"...and never will be.

He is just a good backup.

Correct, good backup/fringe starter.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

55 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

Brissett is neither "franchise" nor "elite"...and never will be.

He is just a good backup.

That is what people said about Nick Foles as well and not only that not 1 person in here or in the media that I can recall picked them to win the SB in 2017 once Wentz got injured. Almost everyone said they were toast including me. All Foles did was out duel Tom Brady to win the SB when his offense scored 40. 

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

As much as I love Brissett, the more I hear about Jordan Love, the more I can get in a Kansas City like situation. Sit Love behind Brissett for a year and then let him take over. 
 

interesting...

 

 

[hoosierhawk]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is what people said about Nick Foles as well and not only that not 1 person in here or in the media that I can recall picked them to win the SB in 2017 once Wentz got injured. Almost everyone said they were toast including me. All Foles did was out duel Tom Brady to win the SB when his offense scored 40. 

One or two games doesn't a Franchise QB make!

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Why does that matter? There's more than one way to have an elite offense. We don't have one right now.

 

And by the way, the Patriots have produced elite offensive numbers in a variety of ways over the years. When Randy Moss was there, they threw the ball all over the field.

 

And yes, if we had a defense that was destroying everyone on the schedule (and the Pats defense is historically good, by the numbers; adjust for strength of opponent and it's not as impressive, but still really good), we probably would have beat the Texans. So does that mean that if our defense is short of historical, then we shouldn't talk about the offense at all? I mean, if we could have scored a measly 21 points, we would have won. This cuts both ways.

I only mentioned NEs D to point out that they are winning games without their usual high scoring offense we were accustomed to for about 7 or 8 years.  There was no other point.

 

My question was, in the past few years when NE had Gronk and Edelman, how often did they throw the ball downfield?

 

I thought they were a high scoring offense by dinking and dunking, and their two main receivers were good enough to get YAC (or should I say make a few plays on their own once in a while)

 

 

 

[DougDew]

5 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

Please ignore any metric that counters my argument? All QBs benefit greatly from YAC.

I don't follow.   

 

Only the QBs who get YAC benefit from it.  The ones who don't, don't.

 

[DougDew]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

This is from a couple of weeks ago:

 

Colts no. 3 in YAC%. Patriots are not in the top 10. Jacoby benefits more of YAC than Brady. 

 

And BTW Brady has not been as great as usual this season either. 

 

Its a percentage. 

 

Was it calculated by dividing a big number by a big number, or a small number by a small number?

 

 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, hoosierhawk said:

One or two games doesn't a Franchise QB make!

True but Foles was showing in the Philly system he could be a franchise QB. Even last year he played good while in. He has just been injured this year. He isn't elite though.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Its a percentage. 

 

Was it calculated by dividing a big number by a big number, or a small number by a small number?

 

Good heavens...

[hoosierhawk]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Good heavens...

Hang in there Super! I doesn't get any better.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Hang in there Super! I doesn't get any better.

You have to hand it to Ol' Dew, he comes up with stuff nobody would think of in a hundred years 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

3 hours ago, coltsva said:

 I get it, but that's not really me. I'm talking about going 12-4 or 11-5 and being a contender every season. I like it when players and teams "bring it" every week, every year, as opposed to coming up big in a couple spots over 15 years, surrounded by a lot of nothing seasons.

 

I understand as a player you want championships, but as a fan, I want the games in week 15 and 16 to matter, in as many seasons as possible. And to be clear, I am not at all a casual fan. I've been die hard for since the 70's.

 

Also, I am not anti Eli. I like him. I just don't think he's in the elite category.

 

i agree play each season as it is the only season like hoodie does

 

 

 

[WoolMagnet]

12 hours ago, The Fish said:

 

They were winning games, but his passing ability wasn't materially different. 

 

We're in information gathering mode, some back and forth is natural. He's got time to flip the script again, but he really needs some pass catchers healthy- that's really not getting enough consideration. JB ain't Dan Marino, but I don't think he's quite as helpless as he looked last week either.

Wow, some actual rational thinking.  What a pleasant surprise.

[MPStack]

2 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Hang in there Super! I doesn't get any better.

Quite frankly, I enjoy @DougDew post! Always entertaining and sure to irritate some. 
 

 

 

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

Just saying pump the brakes. He has played 33 games. That is just over 2 seasons. Take out Patriots (3) and unmeaningful with colts (4) then he has started 26 games.

Stat line is

5,024 yards passing : 28 touchdowns passing : 11 Ints

 

395 yards rushing : 8 touchdowns 

 

For prospective on allowing time to develop. 
 

Troy Aikman (1989) 11 games; 155-293 for 1749 yards; 9 TD; 18 INT; 55.9 passer rating. A career 81.6 passer rating.  Never had a 4000 yard passing season.

 

John Elway (1983) 11 games; 123-259 for 1663 yards; 7 TD; 14 INT; 54.9 passer rating.  Only one season with a passer rating over 90 (1993).  Who knew he’d walk away with two Super Bowl titles?

 

Warren Moon (1984) 16 games; 259-450 for 3338 yards; 12 TD; 14 INT; 76.9 passer rating.  Never had a 16 game season with less than 14 INTs

 

Steve Young (1986) 14 games; 195-363 for 2282 yards; 8 TD; 13 INT; 65.5 passer rating.  His legs couldn’t prevent concussions.  Ended up with the best ever career passer rating. Spent six years as Joe Montana’s backup.

 

Jim Kelly (1986) 16 games; 285-480 for 3593 yards; 22 TD; 17 INT; 83.3 passer rating.  Spent first two professional years starting in USFL. 
 

Peyton Manning (1998) 16 games; 326-575 for 3739 yards; 26 TD; 28 INT (ouch!); 71.2 passer rating.  Won 3 games that year which is one of just two seasons in 12 years with less than 10 wins.

 

Drew Brees (2002) 16 games; 320-526 for 3284 yards; 17 TD; 16 INT; 76.9 passer rating.  Following year was worse (67.5 passer rating) before 6 straight seasons of 89 passer rating or higher.  Mr. Who Dat got dismissed by the San Diego Chargers only to eventually win a Super Bowl elsewhere.

 

just saying. Gotta let guys develop. He has had one truly awful game. Everyone does. See Lamar Jackson in playoffs last year. 
 

BREATHE. 

 

[hoosierhawk]

12 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Just saying pump the brakes. He has played 33 games. That is just over 2 seasons. Take out Patriots (3) and unmeaningful with colts (4) then he has started 26 games.

Stat line is

5,024 yards passing : 28 touchdowns passing : 11 Ints

 

395 yards rushing : 8 touchdowns 

 

For prospective on allowing time to develop. 
 

Troy Aikman (1989) 11 games; 155-293 for 1749 yards; 9 TD; 18 INT; 55.9 passer rating. A career 81.6 passer rating.  Never had a 4000 yard passing season.

 

John Elway (1983) 11 games; 123-259 for 1663 yards; 7 TD; 14 INT; 54.9 passer rating.  Only one season with a passer rating over 90 (1993).  Who knew he’d walk away with two Super Bowl titles?

 

Warren Moon (1984) 16 games; 259-450 for 3338 yards; 12 TD; 14 INT; 76.9 passer rating.  Never had a 16 game season with less than 14 INTs

 

Steve Young (1986) 14 games; 195-363 for 2282 yards; 8 TD; 13 INT; 65.5 passer rating.  His legs couldn’t prevent concussions.  Ended up with the best ever career passer rating. Spent six years as Joe Montana’s backup.

 

Jim Kelly (1986) 16 games; 285-480 for 3593 yards; 22 TD; 17 INT; 83.3 passer rating.  Spent first two professional years starting in USFL. 
 

Peyton Manning (1998) 16 games; 326-575 for 3739 yards; 26 TD; 28 INT (ouch!); 71.2 passer rating.  Won 3 games that year which is one of just two seasons in 12 years with less than 10 wins.

 

Drew Brees (2002) 16 games; 320-526 for 3284 yards; 17 TD; 16 INT; 76.9 passer rating.  Following year was worse (67.5 passer rating) before 6 straight seasons of 89 passer rating or higher.  Mr. Who Dat got dismissed by the San Diego Chargers only to eventually win a Super Bowl elsewhere.

 

just saying. Gotta let guys develop. He has had one truly awful game. Everyone does. See Lamar Jackson in playoffs last year. 
 

BREATHE. 

 

A little puzzled BB. You mention that JB has only played in 33 games and then you give examples of 7 different guys but only after less than 1/2 the number of games JB played. What is your point?

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

Just saying players take time to develop. These were their first year starting but look them up. Aikman was horrible for 3 years. Brees was not great until year 4 in San Diego. Steve young wasn’t great until later. 
 

my point is Brissett is still developing. We all want Manning and Luck right away. Give him time to get adjusted. He will be our franchise an. 

[MPStack]

9 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

A little puzzled BB. You mention that JB has only played in 33 games and then you give examples of 7 different guys but only after less than 1/2 the number of games JB played. What is your point?

That with further “Development” Brissett will be a HOFer is how I interpret it!

[esmort]

53 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Just saying pump the brakes. He has played 33 games. That is just over 2 seasons. Take out Patriots (3) and unmeaningful with colts (4) then he has started 26 games.

Stat line is

5,024 yards passing : 28 touchdowns passing : 11 Ints

 

395 yards rushing : 8 touchdowns 

 

For prospective on allowing time to develop. 
 

Troy Aikman (1989) 11 games; 155-293 for 1749 yards; 9 TD; 18 INT; 55.9 passer rating. A career 81.6 passer rating.  Never had a 4000 yard passing season.

 

John Elway (1983) 11 games; 123-259 for 1663 yards; 7 TD; 14 INT; 54.9 passer rating.  Only one season with a passer rating over 90 (1993).  Who knew he’d walk away with two Super Bowl titles?

 

Warren Moon (1984) 16 games; 259-450 for 3338 yards; 12 TD; 14 INT; 76.9 passer rating.  Never had a 16 game season with less than 14 INTs

 

Steve Young (1986) 14 games; 195-363 for 2282 yards; 8 TD; 13 INT; 65.5 passer rating.  His legs couldn’t prevent concussions.  Ended up with the best ever career passer rating. Spent six years as Joe Montana’s backup.

 

Jim Kelly (1986) 16 games; 285-480 for 3593 yards; 22 TD; 17 INT; 83.3 passer rating.  Spent first two professional years starting in USFL. 
 

Peyton Manning (1998) 16 games; 326-575 for 3739 yards; 26 TD; 28 INT (ouch!); 71.2 passer rating.  Won 3 games that year which is one of just two seasons in 12 years with less than 10 wins.

 

Drew Brees (2002) 16 games; 320-526 for 3284 yards; 17 TD; 16 INT; 76.9 passer rating.  Following year was worse (67.5 passer rating) before 6 straight seasons of 89 passer rating or higher.  Mr. Who Dat got dismissed by the San Diego Chargers only to eventually win a Super Bowl elsewhere.

 

just saying. Gotta let guys develop. He has had one truly awful game. Everyone does. See Lamar Jackson in playoffs last year. 
 

BREATHE. 

 

 

This comparison .... 

 

34 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Just saying players take time to develop. These were their first year starting but look them up. Aikman was horrible for 3 years. Brees was not great until year 4 in San Diego. Steve young wasn’t great until later. 
 

my point is Brissett is still developing.  But is he really developing? Hmmm We all want Manning and Luck right away. Give him time to get adjusted. He will be our franchise an. 

 

Cherry pick list of HOF QBs rookie seasons + JB 4th season - numbers/seasons that "shouldn't count" + more time for JB to "develop" = Colts franchise QB ..... So obvious now; how is everyone missing it! 

[bestQBever]

We're in QB purgatory. Unless we build a 49ers-esque team, we're stuck.

[Maniac]

Anybody who wants Jacoby Brissett as starting QB for the next 10 years is insane.

 

That's a franchise guy for me... the guy you trust to lead your team for a long term period.

[SteelCityColt]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't follow.   

 

Only the QBs who get YAC benefit from it.  The ones who don't, don't.

 

 

To quote @Superman good heavens indeed. 

 

Last year out of starting QBs, the % of their yards that came from YAC ranged from 40% to 55%. They all benefit greatly from YAC. 

 

To your previous point, as YAC isn't really a stat that is recorded separate to total passing yards for QBs (again indicative that your point is somewhat void as it's not been important to distinguish historically) it's hard to pull out the Pats' numbers for 2010, which is I assume the year you're referring to. 

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

6 hours ago, esmort said:

 

This comparison .... 

 

 

Cherry pick list of HOF QBs rookie seasons + JB 4th season - numbers/seasons that "shouldn't count" + more time for JB to "develop" = Colts franchise QB ..... So obvious now; how is everyone missing it! 

I understand what you are saying. I get it. The list is pretty crazy. The only point that I am making is that forget the years (year 4) and look at the number the starts (26). It just seems crazy that we would give up on someone after so few starts. He he hasn’t been horrible in all of them. 

[mahagga73]

6 hours ago, bestQBever said:

We're in QB purgatory. Unless we build a 49ers-esque team, we're stuck.

These next few games are going to determine Jacoby future. 

[mahagga73]

On 10/27/2019 at 10:23 PM, WarGhost21 said:

Going into this game, Brissett has performed amazingly well. He has played game manager, and also shown he can be a gunslinger (vs Houston). The only thing we had yet to see from Brissett was how he would respond to a last minute scenario with everything going against the team and the game on the line. Even though overall it was a sloppy performance for Indy, I saw what I wanted to see: Brissett has a clutch gene. I wasn't sure before, and that was the only piece missing from his resume. After this, though, I think Brissett could be just as good as any QB we might select in next years draft, if not better. So I guess my question for the forum is:

 

Have you seen enough from Brissett to be confident in him at the helm for the foreseeable future, or do we still need to look elsewhere? I think he might just have what it takes to bring this team to glory.

Uh no and yeah right. These next few games are the job rehearsal for the future. 

[Myles]

8 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Just saying players take time to develop. These were their first year starting but look them up. Aikman was horrible for 3 years. Brees was not great until year 4 in San Diego. Steve young wasn’t great until later. 
 

my point is Brissett is still developing. We all want Manning and Luck right away. Give him time to get adjusted. He will be our franchise an. 

The difference is that Jacoby has been in the league for 4 years already.  Backup on the Patriots, starter on the Colts, backup on the Colts and starter on the Colts.   I think he is what he is.   Reich doesn't trust him.   He doesn't read the field well and he hasn't shown improvement throughout this year.  

I was defending him early this season, but that was when I thought he would improve.  He hasn't.  I'm afraid we will have another season in 2020 where most games are close and we win just over half of them.  

[Coffeedrinker]

12 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Interesting analytic from ESPN/Next Gen

 

Shows how good JB has it (top 5 pass blocking unit). Think about how JB and his high-time-to-throw would fare on other teams that don't hold nearly as well or long.

 

Also shows our pass rush on D has a ways to go. 

 

 

My eyes are getting old.  Colts are good at PBWR and just above average at PRWR?

[Coffeedrinker]

43 minutes ago, Myles said:

The difference is that Jacoby has been in the league for 4 years already.  Backup on the Patriots, starter on the Colts, backup on the Colts and starter on the Colts.   I think he is what he is.   Reich doesn't trust him.   He doesn't read the field well and he hasn't shown improvement throughout this year.  

I was defending him early this season, but that was when I thought he would improve.  He hasn't.  I'm afraid we will have another season in 2020 where most games are close and we win just over half of them.  

I think you hit the nail on the head with improvement... rewatching some of the last couple of games, he does seem to go through his progressions but he's afraid to throw the ball unless a) the receiver is wide open or b) it's desperation.

 

That, IMO, is what he has not improved upon, it seems he does not trust himself to make those throws and if he can't trust himself, how is the team supposed to trust him to do it?

[SteelCityColt]

11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is what people said about Nick Foles as well and not only that not 1 person in here or in the media that I can recall picked them to win the SB in 2017 once Wentz got injured. Almost everyone said they were toast including me. All Foles did was out duel Tom Brady to win the SB when his offense scored 40. 

 

Yet the Eagles chose to move on? This isn't about one season, this is about sustainable winning over multiple seasons. 

 

The regression to the mean is already biting. 

[Myles]

10 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I think you hit the nail on the head with improvement... rewatching some of the last couple of games, he does seem to go through his progressions but he's afraid to throw the ball unless a) the receiver is wide open or b) it's desperation.

 

That, IMO, is what he has not improved upon, it seems he does not trust himself to make those throws and if he can't trust himself, how is the team supposed to trust him to do it?

We are on the same page.   After 11 games (even though he missed almost 2) I expected him to look different with improvement.  He looks exactly the same as he did to start the season.  In 2017 the Colts were 3-8 with Brissett.  Difference of 3 wins.   I think the difference is the team.  This seasons team is obviously better than the 2017 version.  I think the improvement in Brissett is due to the teams improvement.  I don't think his level of play has improved outside of that.  

Eerily similar on yards per game:

2017 - 193.6

2019 - 192.6

 

[DougDew]

10 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Good heavens...

I assume the denominator is something like total passing yards (which would be low for us), and the numerator is YAC yards (which would be high relative to passing yards, but low overall because the total passing yard universe is already low).

 

So if its a low numerator divided by a low denominator, how is the stat meaningful?

 

If its the PATS of a few years ago, a 55% YAC percentage, 3rd in the NFL,  would be very meaningful because it would have been a large component of a high total passing yards and high scoring offense.

 

Good heavens....The question is elementary.

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

The difference is that Jacoby has been in the league for 4 years already.  Backup on the Patriots, starter on the Colts, backup on the Colts and starter on the Colts.   I think he is what he is.   Reich doesn't trust him.   He doesn't read the field well and he hasn't shown improvement throughout this year.  

I was defending him early this season, but that was when I thought he would improve.  He hasn't.  I'm afraid we will have another season in 2020 where most games are close and we win just over half of them.  

Maybe not having his top 3 receivers on the field has something to do with his trust of throwing to these 2nd tier receivers? (and Frank calling pass plays to these 2nd tier players)

When Brissett had his trusted receivers on the field he did throw to them. (the first game against the Texans)

Every receiver on the field for us was not even drafted and were brought in specifically to be back ups. 

It stands to reason when a QB don't have his best weapons on the field it would be a struggle for improvement. 

 

[SteelCityColt]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Maybe not having his top 3 receivers on the field has something to do with his trust of throwing to these 2nd tier receivers? (and Frank calling pass plays to these 2nd tier players)

When Brissett had his trusted receivers on the field he did throw to them. (the first game against the Texans)

Every receiver on the field for us was not even drafted and were brought in specifically to be back ups. 

It stands to reason when a QB don't have his best weapons on the field it would be a struggle for improvement. 

 

 

Assuming your top 3 are Hilton, Funchess, Campbell? 

[Superman]

22 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I assume the denominator is something like total passing yards (which would be low for us), and the numerator is YAC yards (which would be high relative to passing yards, but low overall because the total passing yard universe is already low).

 

So if its a low numerator divided by a low denominator, how is the stat meaningful?

 

If its the PATS of a few years ago, a 55% YAC percentage, 3rd in the NFL,  would be very meaningful because it would have been a large component of a high total passing yards and high scoring offense.

 

Good heavens....The question is elementary.

 

 

The question is a diversion.

 

If you have low total passing yards and high YAC, the picture is pretty clear. The QB doesn't produce a lot of passing yards.

[crazycolt1]

Just now, SteelCityColt said:

 

Assuming your top 3 are Hilton, Funchess, Campbell? 

At the start of the season those were the slated starters. 

On paper we seem to have a solid core of receivers at the beginning of the season. 

Well obviously that didn't work out. 

I think Frank has no faith in the receivers on the field at this time thus the over abundance of run plays called. This last weeks game showed that IMO. 

 

 

[Superman]

20 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Maybe not having his top 3 receivers on the field has something to do with his trust of throwing to these 2nd tier receivers? (and Frank calling pass plays to these 2nd tier players)

 

 

Just throw the ball to guys when they're open. 

 

 

 

 

[SteelCityColt]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

At the start of the season those were the slated starters. 

On paper we seem to have a solid core of receivers at the beginning of the season. 

Well obviously that didn't work out. 

I think Frank has no faith in the receivers on the field at this time thus the over abundance of run plays called. This last weeks game showed that IMO. 

 

 

 

2 out of those 3 weren't on the team last year, and outside of Grant/Inman it's same group of receiving weapons (let's not be myopic and limit to WRs). Yet the production was greater last year. They also missed a large amount of Doyle last year, who while not explosive, is dependable. 

 

Factor in players like Pascal have kicked on somewhat this year. Draft position means nothing once you're on the field. 

 

If you look at Hilton, even prior to Campbell's injury and his own injury his receiving stats were down, it's probably going to end up being his worst season. 

 

How little faith to have to have to not throw to guys who were wide open on some plays?