Jacoby Brissett Impressions (Perma Merge)

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21 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I'll just leave this here.  This is Good Morning Football and they discussed the Colts and Brissett.

 

 

I mean... it's hard for them to come from "Jacoby is in the MVP conversation" to "Is Jacoby a problem for the Colts?". I swear a ton of those daily show hosts and analysts talk without having watched more than a game or two from a player. I don't blame them for not watching every play of every player from every team ... it's impossible, but why go to such extremes like Burleson was spewing a month or so ago(Jacoby for MVP)? 

 

So yeah, forgive me for not taking their opinions on the Colts seriously, whatever the opinion is. 

[EastStreet 6,854]

JB will never be elite. JB is currently not a franchise QB, but could possibly turn into one. Current trajectory is not trending in that favor, especially in this scheme. Put him in a Chud type O that makes thing easier on him, give him a good supporting cast for that scheme, and a great D, and perhaps he does better.

 

His lack of improvement in many areas over the season so far is the biggest negative for me. Leadership is great, but doesn't negate the need of performance. Superman moments are great, but don't negate the need for consistent and sustained performance. 

 

For those that like to use the financial commitment as a means to define "franchise", his contract is far from franchise level.

[EastStreet 6,854]

7 minutes ago, Myles said:

Add to this that he hasn't once been considered a top 5 QB in the league.   Maybe not top 10.  How can you be elite and the 12th best QB in the league.  Wouldn't that make 12 elite QB's at some point.   

 

I'm hearing more and more talk of Rivers not being the Chargers QB after this year.   Mostly talk radio, so take it for what it is worth.   What if the Colts could bring him in for a year or 2?   The O-line is great.  The defense is pretty good.  The team may be primed to win now.  

I feel sorry for Rivers given the constant ups and downs of the support cast around through the years. Such a waste. I wouldn't be oppose to him for a few years, but his skill set is declining. Perhaps he could energize himself for a few last years. He would be great to mentor, and take the heat off of, a young draft pick like Love though.

[Myles 4,242]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

I mean... it's hard for them to come from "Jacoby is in the MVP conversation" to "Is Jacoby a problem for the Colts?". I swear a ton of those daily show hosts and analysts talk without having watched more than a game or two from a player. I don't blame them for not watching every play of every player from every team ... it's impossible, but why go to such extremes like Burleson was spewing a month or so ago(Jacoby for MVP)? 

 

So yeah, forgive me for not taking their opinions on the Colts seriously, whatever the opinion is. 

I won't harp on those who said he was in the MVP conversation.   Based on his stats at the time, it was warranted.   Those who have watched every game knew it wouldn't last.  When we were 5-2 with a win at the Chiefs, his completion %, rating and INT % were near the top of the league.

[Superman 37,178]

Just now, Myles said:

Add to this that he hasn't once been considered a top 5 QB in the league.   Maybe not top 10.  How can you be elite and the 12th best QB in the league.  Wouldn't that make 12 elite QB's at some point.   

 

I'm hearing more and more talk of Rivers not being the Chargers QB after this year.   Mostly talk radio, so take it for what it is worth.   What if the Colts could bring him in for a year or 2?   The O-line is great.  The defense is pretty good.  The team may be primed to win now.  

 

Rivers is a FA. They can make a clean break if they want. I'm not sure how Telesco will want to play that, especially if Rivers wants to keep playing. But Anthony Lynn knows and likes Tyrod Taylor, so maybe we even see him at some point this season.

 

It's hard to imagine Rivers playing anywhere else. Seems like he'd either take a moderate two year deal to stay with the Chargers, or retire. He doesn't want to move his family.

 

I'm also not excited about the idea of bringing in a 38 year old QB who seems to be losing his ability to make plays with his arm. I don't think this is the right fit.

 

If the staff wants to find the next guy, I would endorse the KC method. They had Alex Smith, drafted Mahomes in the first and sat him, and then traded Smith for a decent return. It didn't hurt that Smith had a fire lit under his butt and started throwing the ball downfield for the first time in his career. We have JB under contract for another year. I'm okay with letting him compete with a drafted QB, especially someone with some serious natural ability (and there are two or three guys that fit that profile, IMO). 

[DEFENSE 204]

2 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

You've confused the concept of "Franchise QB" with "QB of a Franchise."  Jacoby Brissett is a backup and he's proved he'll always be one.  It's a wonder Frank has won as many games as he has with Brissett.  

have to face it luck quit and this is what we have now

[RollerColt 2,631]

I want Jacoby to be successful. But I just don't see him as a long term solution. He's got time left to prove otherwise, but there is a degradation going on with his abilities. 

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

If the staff wants to find the next guy, I would endorse the KC method. They had Alex Smith, drafted Mahomes in the first and sat him, and then traded Smith for a decent return. It didn't hurt that Smith had a fire lit under his butt and started throwing the ball downfield for the first time in his career. We have JB under contract for another year. I'm okay with letting him compete with a drafted QB, especially someone with some serious natural ability (and there are two or three guys that fit that profile, IMO). 

 

I've been wondering about this as well. It also worked for the Packers with Rodgers waiting behind Favre. 

[bhougland 232]

10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

JB will never be elite. JB is currently not a franchise QB, but could possibly turn into one. Current trajectory is not trending in that favor, especially in this scheme. Put him in a Chud type O that makes thing easier on him, give him a good supporting cast for that scheme, and a great D, and perhaps he does better.

 

His lack of improvement in many areas over the season so far is the biggest negative for me. Leadership is great, but doesn't negate the need of performance. Superman moments are great, but don't negate the need for consistent and sustained performance. 

 

For those that like to use the financial commitment as a means to define "franchise", his contract is far from franchise level.

 

I agree.  Leadership is a funny because it can be so easy to lose your influence if your performance doesn't match your words. The rah rah guys can easily become the vocal leaders for the team.  However, the moment they start letting the team down then their words fall on deaf ears.  Jacoby was a vocal leader last year, but he was never counted on to actually win the games.  He was more of a peer that spoke up and tried to get the team fired up.  

 

Now he is the top dog because of his position, but position alone won't let you keep your leadership status.  He has to let his play on the field speak as well, and I think he is a tipping point with both the fans and the team.

[OffensivelyPC 6,007]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

At some point, people are going to realize that the discussion about the Colts QB isn't about the win/loss record.

Ironically, W/L record was ultimately our argument when it came to Manning and Brady in the elite conversation.  We ignored Brady's super bowl W/L record and instead, propped Manning's level of play.  Yet for Brissett, we ignore his level of play and pound the table with his W/L record.  

 

In other words, when it comes to a conversation that about who's the greatest (and has no impact on whether the Colts win going forward), we look at a QBs level of play.  Yet in conversations about how to best improve/sustain the Colts winning going forward, we ignore a QBs level of play.

 

We're a finicky bunch.

[stitches 9,563]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Rivers is a FA. They can make a clean break if they want. I'm not sure how Telesco will want to play that, especially if Rivers wants to keep playing. But Anthony Lynn knows and likes Tyrod Taylor, so maybe we even see him at some point this season.

 

It's hard to imagine Rivers playing anywhere else. Seems like he'd either take a moderate two year deal to stay with the Chargers, or retire. He doesn't want to move his family.

 

I'm also not excited about the idea of bringing in a 38 year old QB who seems to be losing his ability to make plays with his arm. I don't think this is the right fit.

 

If the staff wants to find the next guy, I would endorse the KC method. They had Alex Smith, drafted Mahomes in the first and sat him, and then traded Smith for a decent return. It didn't hurt that Smith had a fire lit under his butt and started throwing the ball downfield for the first time in his career. We have JB under contract for another year. I'm okay with letting him compete with a drafted QB, especially someone with some serious natural ability (and there are two or three guys that fit that profile, IMO). 

Yeah, this is the script we should follow IMO. Draft a QB and try to prepare him for the start of the season, give him the chance to compete with JB for the starting spot. If he's not ready week 1, it's OK just start Brissett and continue to develop him for the duration of the season and then get another full off-season to bring him up to a level where he can successfully run your offense. 

 

Luck really screwed us over by retiring out of the blue, but there is nothing we can do about it. We should try doing the best with what we got. IMO this would involve trying to get and/or develop a franchise QB as quickly as possible. IMO we won't be able to find a FA franchise QB or trade for one that can be the long-term solution, and JB has not yet shown he's one, so I would absolutely draft a QB high and let Reich work with him and develop him. Jacoby's contract is perfect for that purpose. We won't have to rush the young QB if he's not ready but at the same time Jacoby is not some killer QB that you cannot bench if the player we draft actually shows he might be ready to run the offense. 

[jameszeigler834 1,830]

6 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

So, I am a huge Brissett fan and like him a lot but i wanted to clear the air on some stuff. 
 

I was listening to the radio the other day and the host stated there was a difference between Franchise QB and Elite QB.
 

There are very few Elite ones in the league today and is what everyone is chasing. Elites are the Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Wilson. They are the generational talents that regularly compete for Superbowls. we had one of these in Manning and Luck. But they are gone and we have to move on. 
 

The other is Franchise. They are Qbs that will win anywhere from 9-12 games a year and occasionally compete for super bowls and go on deep playoff runs. They are the Qb that is really good but not generational. You stay with them because you can’t find anyone better (because elite is so hard to find). These are guys like Ryan, Stafford, Rivers, Dalton, Cousins. If surrounded by enough talent they can look elite at times. 
 

I believe that Brissett is a Franchise QB but probably not elite, based on this. I am okay with that. It is so hard to find a good starting level Qb and damn near impossible to get a generational elite one.  If given support he will take us to the playoffs and maybe a Super Bowl. Don’t take for granted making the playoffs. 

 

what do y’all think?

Not even good enough to be called a franchise QB.

[aaron11 2,788]

2 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Ironically, W/L record was ultimately our argument when it came to Manning and Brady in the elite conversation.  We ignored Brady's super bowl W/L record and instead, propped Manning's level of play.  Yet for Brissett, we ignore his level of play and pound the table with his W/L record.  

 

 

 

its not the same, brady and manning were both elite, the argument was over who is better

 

jacoby doesnt even have a winning record

[OffensivelyPC 6,007]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

its not the same, brady and manning were both elite, the argument was over who is better

 

jacoby doesnt even have a winning record

Does it even matter?  If we're arguing over who is better, then why does w/l only matter in a dispute between elites, but somehow matters differently when we're talking about an average QB?

[OffensivelyPC 6,007]

27 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

have to face it luck quit and this is what we have now

Well of course.  What I said wasn't meant to be a complaint about the fact that JB is our QB.  It was a simple assertion that JB is not a "franchise QB" or in other words,  a QB that I would not want to keep long term.

[Myles 4,242]

34 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Rivers is a FA. They can make a clean break if they want. I'm not sure how Telesco will want to play that, especially if Rivers wants to keep playing. But Anthony Lynn knows and likes Tyrod Taylor, so maybe we even see him at some point this season.

 

It's hard to imagine Rivers playing anywhere else. Seems like he'd either take a moderate two year deal to stay with the Chargers, or retire. He doesn't want to move his family.

 

I'm also not excited about the idea of bringing in a 38 year old QB who seems to be losing his ability to make plays with his arm. I don't think this is the right fit.

 

If the staff wants to find the next guy, I would endorse the KC method. They had Alex Smith, drafted Mahomes in the first and sat him, and then traded Smith for a decent return. It didn't hurt that Smith had a fire lit under his butt and started throwing the ball downfield for the first time in his career. We have JB under contract for another year. I'm okay with letting him compete with a drafted QB, especially someone with some serious natural ability (and there are two or three guys that fit that profile, IMO). 

I don't think it would happen with Rivers either, but I would be all in favor of bringing him in for 2 years if he was willing.   I think the team is ready to win now.   I do agree that the most likely is drafting a QB to sit behind Brissett next year.  I'm not thrilled with that because Brissett and Reich haven't brought any improvement as this season went along and I'm afraid we already know what to expect next season.  

[stitches 9,563]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

I don't think it would happen with Rivers either, but I would be all in favor of bringing him in for 2 years if he was willing.   I think the team is ready to win now.   I do agree that the most likely is drafting a QB to sit behind Brissett next year.  I'm not thrilled with that because Brissett and Reich haven't brought any improvement as this season went along and I'm afraid we already know what to expect next season.  

Then we should hope that if we draft a QB Reich can get him ready to play day 1. In general, the moment you draft a QB high, this should be the priority no.1 for your coaching staff - get him ready to play. I actually think it's not completely out of the question that we start the new QB some time during the season.

[DownHillRunner 229]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Rivers is a FA. They can make a clean break if they want. I'm not sure how Telesco will want to play that, especially if Rivers wants to keep playing. But Anthony Lynn knows and likes Tyrod Taylor, so maybe we even see him at some point this season.

 

It's hard to imagine Rivers playing anywhere else. Seems like he'd either take a moderate two year deal to stay with the Chargers, or retire. He doesn't want to move his family.

 

I'm also not excited about the idea of bringing in a 38 year old QB who seems to be losing his ability to make plays with his arm. I don't think this is the right fit.

 

If the staff wants to find the next guy, I would endorse the KC method. They had Alex Smith, drafted Mahomes in the first and sat him, and then traded Smith for a decent return. It didn't hurt that Smith had a fire lit under his butt and started throwing the ball downfield for the first time in his career. We have JB under contract for another year. I'm okay with letting him compete with a drafted QB, especially someone with some serious natural ability (and there are two or three guys that fit that profile, IMO). 

 

 

 

Hunter Henry or Keenan Allen. Other than those two, I don't want anyone else on the Chargers who is an offensive player. 

 

[Superman 37,178]

Just now, Myles said:

I don't think it would happen with Rivers either, but I would be all in favor of bringing him in for 2 years if he was willing.   I think the team is ready to win now.   I do agree that the most likely is drafting a QB to sit behind Brissett next year.  I'm not thrilled with that because Brissett and Reich haven't brought any improvement as this season went along and I'm afraid we already know what to expect next season.  

 

I think the issues with the passing game are more about JB and less about Reich. And after looking at the All 22 and some advanced stats over the last couple days, I'm less annoyed with Reich's gameplan and play calling than I was right after the game. Still thought he missed some opportunities to make some good calls, especially on the final drive, but I think even with a gameplan that was more conservative than I think it should have been, JB left a lot of meat on the bone Thursday night.

 

And let me just reiterate that so it's not taken out of context by anyone. I think Reich should have given JB more opportunities Thursday night, but I don't think JB made very good use of the opportunities he was given. 

 

Whether Reich can develop and effectively use a really talented QB is another story, and I'm not certain we know the answer to it. But I'm not really in favor of a quick fix solution (which is what Rivers is meant to be), and I think young QBs are more prepared than ever to succeed in the NFL if they have a good coaching staff. 

[Superman 37,178]

2 minutes ago, DownHillRunner said:

 

Hunter Henry or Keenan Allen. Other than those two, I don't want anyone else on the Chargers who is an offensive player. 

 

 

Yikes. We're openly discussing trying to acquire Philip Rivers.

[SteelCityColt 8,971]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Yikes. We're openly discussing trying to acquire Philip Rivers.

[OffensivelyPC 6,007]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yikes. We're openly discussing trying to acquire Philip Rivers.

Give us some credit, at least we're not openly discussing trying to trade for Tom Brady.  

[Superman 37,178]

Just now, OffensivelyPC said:

Give us some credit, at least we're not openly discussing trying to trade for Tom Brady.  

 

But he's also a free agent... 

[Myles 4,242]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yikes. We're openly discussing trying to acquire Philip Rivers.

My only argument for it is that it would be an immediate improvement over Brissett.   I'm also not too confident in a QB that would be drafted late in the first or second round.   

I fear Brissett as the starter next season.  

 

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

Then we should hope that if we draft a QB Reich can get him ready to play day 1. In general, the moment you draft a QB high, this should be the priority no.1 for your coaching staff - get him ready to play. I actually think it's not completely out of the question that we start the new QB some time during the season.

That is not reassuring to me.   It means the season is not going well.  Another wasted season of a great O-line and a good defense.   

[OffensivelyPC 6,007]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

But he's also a free agent... 

Only if you don't resign him! 

[DEFENSE 204]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think the issues with the passing game are more about JB and less about Reich. And after looking at the All 22 and some advanced stats over the last couple days, I'm less annoyed with Reich's gameplan and play calling than I was right after the game. Still thought he missed some opportunities to make some good calls, especially on the final drive, but I think even with a gameplan that was more conservative than I think it should have been, JB left a lot of meat on the bone Thursday night.

 

And let me just reiterate that so it's not taken out of context by anyone. I think Reich should have given JB more opportunities Thursday night, but I don't think JB made very good use of the opportunities he was given. 

 

Whether Reich can develop and effectively use a really talented QB is another story, and I'm not certain we know the answer to it. But I'm not really in favor of a quick fix solution (which is what Rivers is meant to be), and I think young QBs are more prepared than ever to succeed in the NFL if they have a good coaching staff. 

rookie draft picks are a big gamble a crap shoot and most are not day one ready

[DEFENSE 204]

9 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Give us some credit, at least we're not openly discussing trying to trade for Tom Brady.  

i would like to get him even at his age

[Superman 37,178]

Just now, DEFENSE said:

rookie draft picks are a big gamble a crap shoot and most are not day one ready

 

So what?

 

Also, I'm not campaigning to start a rookie QB on Day 1. I think we're set up really well to not need to start a rookie in 2020. Again, follow the KC model.

[DEFENSE 204]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yikes. We're openly discussing trying to acquire Philip Rivers.

i would like him for our qb

[Smoke317 1,272]

Rivers?  Y'all can't be serious.  Rivers is a turnover machine who is a statue in the pocket.  When the pressure comes he's just throwing the ball up for grabs.  JB may not be the answer but Rivers is definitely is not the answer.  Hard Pass on Rivers.

[DEFENSE 204]

26 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Well of course.  What I said wasn't meant to be a complaint about the fact that JB is our QB.  It was a simple assertion that JB is not a "franchise QB" or in other words,  a QB that I would not want to keep long term.

ok, i understand

[Four2itus 4,388]

37 minutes ago, stitches said:

Luck really screwed us over by retiring out of the blue

This is in relation to the fan perspective, but it has been noted that it was not out of the blue for the front office. Its natural to blame Luck, but to leave the front office out of that statement, to me...isn't fair to the legacy of Luck. 

[Superman 37,178]

8 minutes ago, Myles said:

My only argument for it is that it would be an immediate improvement over Brissett.   I'm also not too confident in a QB that would be drafted late in the first or second round.   

I fear Brissett as the starter next season.  

 

That is not reassuring to me.   It means the season is not going well.  Another wasted season of a great O-line and a good defense.   

 

How do you feel this season is going?

 

The Chiefs got Mahomes on the field in Week 17 in 2017.

 

I suppose you could swap out JB for someone like Rivers next season, even though I'm not over the moon about that idea (Reich and Sirianni know him pretty well, though). Get something for JB, sign Rivers for two years, draft a rookie. I think that's all pretty far fetched.

 

I think the clear path is the KC model. I'm not riddled with angst over "wasting" a good OL and defense. We have a GM who prioritizes both, I get the feeling he'll keep drafting OL and defensive players high in the draft, unlike his two predecessors. 

[stitches 9,563]

14 minutes ago, Myles said:

My only argument for it is that it would be an immediate improvement over Brissett.   I'm also not too confident in a QB that would be drafted late in the first or second round.   

I fear Brissett as the starter next season.  

 

That is not reassuring to me.   It means the season is not going well.  Another wasted season of a great O-line and a good defense.   

Or the QB is actually good. Real good! Remember when everybody expected Carson Wentz to sit behind Sam Bradford for his first year? And instead they just decided to start him from game 1 and Bradford had to force his way out of Philly because of it? 

[stitches 9,563]

4 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

This is in relation to the fan perspective, but it has been noted that it was not out of the blue for the front office. Its natural to blame Luck, but to leave the front office out of that statement, to me...isn't fair to the legacy of Luck. 

 

I am not blaming him, I'm just making an observation and I think it's uncontroversial that Luck retired out of the blue and it screwed us over. Even if he told them in February... or April. It's still out of the blue when talking about 29 year old franchise QB retiring and it's still something you cannot really prepare for. There were no great FA options and IMO the draft class past Murray wasn't great so if Ballard didn't like any of the rest of them he couldn't do much about it either. That's assuming the worst case conspiracy theory, which I don't believe. I think I believe the official story to a large degree. Even if he told them on January 13th, I don't think anything with regards to the starting QB position changes. They probably would have wanted to see what Brissett can do anyways. 

[SteelCityColt 8,971]

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

Or the QB is actually good. Real good! Remember when everybody expected Carson Wentz to sit behind Sam Bradford for his first year? And instead they just decided to start him from game 1 and Bradford had to force his way out of Philly because of it? 

 

Remind me who was meant to be the Seahawks starter in the 2012 season 

[DEFENSE 204]

3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Remind me who was meant to be the Seahawks starter in the 2012 season 

those cases are rare, very small percentage

[Colts_Fan12 5,691]

41 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yikes. We're openly discussing trying to acquire Philip Rivers.

no one is patient they wanna win right this second and for some reason they automatically think rookie QB = lost season. I dont really understand why tho

[DEFENSE 204]

6 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

no one is patient they wanna win right this second and for some reason they automatically think rookie QB = lost season. I dont really understand why tho

I do

[aaron11 2,788]

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Does it even matter?  If we're arguing over who is better, then why does w/l only matter in a dispute between elites, but somehow matters differently when we're talking about an average QB?

 

regarding jacoby, he has won when on a good team that rushes for 200 yards and the defense holds to 20 points or so.  i think most QBs are going to win when they get that kind of support

 

he lost when he was on a bad team in 2017, he doesnt seem to move the needle much himself

 

[DougDew 4,175]

Just curious.  When the PATS had an elite offense, how often did they throw the ball down field?

 

Please, no yards per pass attempt stat, because it would be skewed with all of the YAC Edelman and Gronk, got.

 

BTW, I heard that all 10 PATS wins this year have come from holding opponents to below 14 points.  

 

We probably would have beat HOU if we did that.