Vinny

[Case]

We all love Vinny but it’s time to move on. At this point in his career he is not going to get better, it’s only downhill from here and I don’t want him to really start regressing in the middle of a playoff run. 

[1959Colts]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/13/missing-kicks-in-the-playoffs-is-nothing-new-for-adam-vinatieri/\

 

Quote

 

Missing kicks in the playoffs is nothing new for Adam Vinatieri

...Vinatieri is 56-for-69 in the playoffs in his career, and while it’s nice that he’s lasted long enough and played for good enough teams to attempt 69 postseason field goals, that’s an accuracy rate of just 81 percent. That really isn’t very good by modern kicker standards...

 

 

[IndySouthsider]

6 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Marvin was still under contract.  He’s the one that got released.  Yes it saved them money but the reason he was cut was because he was done.  That’s why no one else picked him up after.  Marvin wasn’t let go because he wanted a big contract he already had that.  He was cut because he wasn’t the same guy he used to be.  

 

Wayne and Freeney weren’t looking for big deals either, both made it known they wanted to be here and were willing to take cheaper deals to stay.  Both were surprised that Grigson didn’t even call to talk about their contracts.  That means it’s wasnt the money it was the production.  Again, both guys weren’t what they used to be and in Freeney’s case no longer fit the defense.  

 

Mathis I left off the list on purpose because he’s the one that retired a Colt.  Now when he retired his contract was up.  He could have probably played another year if he wanted too but I think he wanted to stay in Indy and looked at the Colts past history of letting guys walk at the end of their careers and decided to probably just hang it up.  

 

Litterally, the million dollar question with Adam is is he still a top teir kicker?  I honestly don’t know.  I think unlike years past he’s shown enough cracks in the armor it’s a legit question.  It’s not one you or me or anyone here can answer.  We don’t know how much those cracks were caused by age or by injury or if they are even enough cracks to worry Ballard.  If Ballard decides he’s not and those cracks were caused by age and they are only going to get worse the Colts will go in a different direction.  If he feels it was due to injury and Adam is still one of the best in the game I am sure they will pay him to stick around.

 

sometimes when you have to move on from a guy there isn’t always an Andrew Luck waiting in the wings.  Take Jeff Saturday for example.  When it was time to move on from him there was no center of the future.  It wasn’t until Ryan Kelly was drafted several years later that the Colts found his replacement.  It was still time to move on from Jeff though.  That’s my point the Colts aren’t going to keep Adam just because they don’t have the answer right now.  If they think it’s time to move on they will have to go find the kicker of the future.  Those kinds of decesions are why NFL GMs get paid a lot of money if they make good ones because they are hard and not everyone can do it.

Just to be clear. Marvin asked for his release rather than renegotiate his contract.

[Dasteez]

I wouldn’t put the L on him. He makes those FGs we’re still down multiple possessions. 

 

That said you can’t miss those FGs in the playoffs. That just as easily could’ve been a game winner type scenario in which we would’ve lost; Vinny did his best Parkey imitation. 

 

We we went younger across the roster including punter. I think it’s about time to look for youth at the placekicker position. It won’t be easy because there will be likely more mistakes, but better for the long run to go ahead and start the development process of a young kicker. 

[Gramz]

Love Adam.

 

He's had a stellar career, and if I'm not mistaken oldest player in the league?

 

Whether i like it or not, I'm all for  signing a younger kicker.  There comes a time, and we may have reached it.

 

[masterlock]

IMO, Vinatieri is washed up. Time to move on. He's been a great kicker, but his better days are behind him. Head-scratching missed kicks this season and now in the playoffs are a sign he's lost "it".

[JimJaime]

9 hours ago, neug3246 said:

not popular opinion let AV walk. Also side note I am sick and tired of having a so called great kicker miss kicks in post season play

AV isn’t a great kicker, he is the greatest of all time and the most clutch kicker I have ever seen.  It will be more interesting see which jersey he chooses to put into the hall when he retires..   

 

 

[GoColts8818]

45 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

AV isn’t a great kicker, he is the greatest of all time and the most clutch kicker I have ever seen.  It will be more interesting see which jersey he chooses to put into the hall when he retires..   

 

 

That’s not how it works in the NFL.  They list all the teams you played for and the years.

[Ratking]

Time to move on from Big V. 

[Caffrey]

It was a team loss, Vinny's' misses was one of a few different factors in the loss.  We could have been a 1 position game later in the 4th quarter if he made those kicks, stunning considering how bad we were playing.  I don't thinks the holder was the problem either.  Vinny just had a bad day,  his leg strength seemed fine as the kicks had more that enough distance but after all, both were chips shots.  We always bring in a second kicker to not overuse Vinny's leg in training camp and pre-season, he accurary can be re-assessed at that tiime.  I don't say we get emotional and release him talk about immediate replacement, lets get a good eval of this future Hall of Famer, he is the older player in the league, but we also know kickers can last longer than any other position.

[Dingus McGirt]

14 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

How does everyone feel about luring Pat McAfee back to us, only this time as a kicker? He clearly loves the Colts, and talked about playing the position in the past. We have a ton of cap space, and the locker room leadership he could bring would be huge. We could also have him do onside kicks for us as needed.

Who?

[Aces101]

14 hours ago, MPStack said:

 

Agreed

 

I hope AV retires. Turn the page and move on.

 

 

I actually agree 100% with this sentiment.

[SLILLINGTON10]

17 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Part of the problem is that his age increases the chances of an injury, as well as the recovery time.  You can’t only look in the rear view mirror.

 

Look at what happened to Seattle and Janikowski.  He gets hurt during a playoff game,..leaving them PK-less.  Can you imagine if the game would’ve come down to Seattle having to kick a 48-yarder to win?

 

We need a reliable kicker.  Vinny didn’t singlehandedly lose us that game yesterday.  But he sure contributed in a significant way.

 

you are correct in regards about chance of injury and time to recover goes up with age, but I don't feel like you can plan for someone to get  injured or even the possibility of it increasing as they get older. Fact is he was an extremely reliable kicker last year and to cut or refuse to resign him isn't as easy to do when he was so good amongst a ton of bad kickers in the league. Honestly, I think AV might hang them up and make this whole argument moot. 'IF' he wants to play he is still an NFL level kicker.

[CurBeatElite]

17 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

We didn’t “miss” on Badgley.  We chose Vinny over him.  And, all sentimentality aside, it wasn’t a wise choice.

 

And I’m not just saying that because Vinny blew a PAT and a chip shot FG in a playoff game.  We had a chance to nab an obviously good young kicker fresh out of the gate and we decided to give him up to hang on to the aging icon for 1 or 2 more years of his decline.

 

It may hurt our hearts to admit it was a bad choice.  But it should be obvious that it was.

 

If Adam made both those kicks yesterday, which he had the leg on each one, we're not even having this conversation and very few people would even remember Badgley or be talking about him as we head into the off-season.  It stinks that he did miss the kicks, but it doesn't mean he's a complete bum or a has-been.  Also, keep in mind Badgley wasn't signed by the Chargers until week 6, when they were experiencing kicker issues.  He was then placed on their practice squad because he wasn't performing all that well right away.  In no way should it be obvious that we made a bad choice when we kept Vinny over him... if it was that obvious, he would've signed with another team prior to the regular season starting and wouldn't have been demoted after signing.  The kid played well late in the season, but at the time he was cut there was nothing remotely close to obvious signs suggesting he'd be a great replacement to Vinny.

[John Waylon]

[ProblChld32]

On 1/12/2019 at 11:07 PM, zibby43 said:

1-year deal or time to sign/draft a young placekicker?

 

I’m inclined to bring him back, if he wants to be back.  But it’s at the point that he could literally lose “it” at any moment.  

 

Also, although this is a somber topic, Vinny is the GOAT.  

Love Vinny but as the oldest player in the league his age showed at the wrong time. It might be time to move on. 

[luv_pony_express]

7 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

If Adam made both those kicks yesterday, which he had the leg on each one, we're not even having this conversation and very few people would even remember Badgley or be talking about him as we head into the off-season.  It stinks that he did miss the kicks, but it doesn't mean he's a complete bum or a has-been.  Also, keep in mind Badgley wasn't signed by the Chargers until week 6, when they were experiencing kicker issues.  He was then placed on their practice squad because he wasn't performing all that well right away.  In no way should it be obvious that we made a bad choice when we kept Vinny over him... if it was that obvious, he would've signed with another team prior to the regular season starting and wouldn't have been demoted after signing.  The kid played well late in the season, but at the time he was cut there was nothing remotely close to obvious signs suggesting he'd be a great replacement to Vinny.

 

I disagree.  Badgley kicked well for us while he was here in the pre-season.  And now the Chargers are talking about him as somebody they’re going to hang onto long term.

 

BTW, notice that I started a thread about this subject *before* the Chiefs game.  What happened in the game only reinforced my lingering doubts.

 

I’m not saying Vinny had an awful year.  But it wasn’t his best.  But that’s not really the point.  The point is that NFL front offices have to take age into consideration in their personnel decisions.  It’s not just about one year.  Badgley offered us a way to transition to a good PK for the foreseeable future and we passed on it.  It was a mistake.

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

I disagree.  Badgley kicked well for us while he was here in the pre-season.  And now the Chargers are talking about him as somebody they’re going to hang onto long term.

 

BTW, notice that I started a thread about this subject *before* the Chiefs game.  What happened in the game only reinforced my lingering doubts.

 

I’m not saying Vinny had an awful year.  But it wasn’t his best.  But that’s not really the point.  The point is that NFL front offices have to take age into consideration in their personnel decisions.  It’s not just about one year.  Badgley offered us a way to transition to a good PK for the foreseeable future and we passed on it.  It was a mistake.

i think AV may have already been under contract by the time we brought in badgley.  he was probably just supposed to be a camp leg here 

[jvan1973]

If he wants to be back,   he will be

[Myles]

Time to move on.  

You can certainly see the trend the past 5 seasons.   Have to assume it will continue.   If he just goes down to 84%, it puts him around 18-20 in the league.   While that is not bad, it is not bang for the buck and I don't see Ballard paying his price.  

[csmopar]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001010590/article/adam-vinatieri-has-no-plans-to-retire-if-colts-want-him

 

 "Previously, Vinatieri was 14 of 14 in the playoffs on FGs within 25 yards -- since 1991, Vinatieri was the only player in the NFL who was perfect on FGs within 25 yards (min 10 attempts), per NFL Research. The shanked PAT was also the first extra point miss of his postseason career (had made each of first 70 PATs in the postseason).

"I never want to make a decision on a day like today, one way or another," Vinatieri said. "That's emotional. You're not thinking through stuff."

The oldest active player in the NFL, Vinatieri is encouraged by the Colts youth, which helped Indy's rebuild take root a year before most prognosticators believed they'd be ready for a playoff run.

"Absolutely, it always does," Vinatieri said of the young team playing a role in his decision. "The fact that we've got a really good young team. ... It's an easy answer. Yes."

Despite the playoff flubs, Vinatieri remains one of the most reliable kickers in the NFL, hitting 85.2 percent of his field goal attempts, including four over 50 yards."

[r a y s k i]

If we can get hold of someone better, or someone with a better upside through draft. Let's do it. 

AV is done imo. Thank him for all he's achieved. 

[twfish]

On 1/12/2019 at 11:23 PM, ColtsLegacy said:

 

False. He bobbled it but was able to get it down just fine. Don't deflect the blame.

I'm for sure going to disagree, re watching both times the football was still getting spun as adam was kicking. Youre going too tell me that has no effect on the ball? 

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, rayski said:

If we can get hold of someone better, or someone with a better upside through draft. Let's do it. 

AV is done imo. Thank him for all he's achieved. 

I don't think he's done just yet.  Usually when kickers start getting done, they start missing short.  He's not missing short, he smacked a couple off the off rights. Plus if any of you all actually go back and rewatch the film of the misses, both ones Saturday, the ball was still spinning in the holder's hands.  That's gonna affect the kick a lot. 

1 minute ago, twfish said:

I'm for sure going to disagree, re watching both times the football was still getting spun as adam was kicking. Youre going too tell me that has no effect on the ball? 

i agree

[luv_pony_express]

6 minutes ago, rayski said:

If we can get hold of someone better, or someone with a better upside through draft. Let's do it. 

AV is done imo. Thank him for all he's achieved. 

 

I have complete faith in Chris Ballard to make the moves he needs to make to maximize the Colts’ chances for success.

 

But no GM is perfect.  They aren’t oracles and soothsayers.  I’m just saying, with the admittedly comfortable aid of hindsight, that he made the wrong decision with our PK position this past fall.  And it pains me to say that, because I amba longtime Vinny fan.

 

But there comes a time in every athlete’s career where it’s time to pass the baton.

[luv_pony_express]

5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I don't think he's done just yet.  Usually when kickers start getting done, they start missing short.  He's not missing short, he smacked a couple off the off rights. Plus if any of you all actually go back and rewatch the film of the misses, both ones Saturday, the ball was still spinning in the holder's hands.  That's gonna affect the kick a lot. 

i agree

 

Are you really saying that Ballard & Co. should base their decision on how Vinatieri is missing kicks?

 

That’s like saying a team shouldn’t move on from a once-great QB because he’s overthrowing, rather than underthrowing, receivers.

 

Missing is missing.

[csmopar]

11 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Are you really saying that Ballard & Co. should base their decision on how Vinatieri is missing kicks?

 

That’s like saying a team shouldn’t move on from a once-great QB because he’s overthrowing, rather than underthrowing, receivers.

 

Missing is missing.

No... What I'm saying is that if the holder can't get the ball placed correctly or steadily, its not solely on AV. It should be taken into account is all I'm saying.  

And I want you to go get someone and grab a football, have them spin it and you try kicking it, see what happens.  Then kick a perfectly still ball and see what happens.  

A QB missing throws is 100 percent on the QB, it doesn't include an extra person holding the ball for the QB to throw. 

[Barry Sears]

I feel like AV wants what is best for the team.  Bring in a young kicker and let them battle it out in training camp.  If the youngster is better, I'm guessing AV will recognize that and retire.  In the meantime, that young kicker will have been able to spend time in camp learning from the master.

[Hammer]

Adam still has plenty of leg. If it should come down to a 55 yd. fg to win a game, I know who I want to see trotting onto the field.

[CurBeatElite]

3 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

I disagree.  Badgley kicked well for us while he was here in the pre-season.  And now the Chargers are talking about him as somebody they’re going to hang onto long term.

 

BTW, notice that I started a thread about this subject *before* the Chiefs game.  What happened in the game only reinforced my lingering doubts.

 

I’m not saying Vinny had an awful year.  But it wasn’t his best.  But that’s not really the point.  The point is that NFL front offices have to take age into consideration in their personnel decisions.  It’s not just about one year.  Badgley offered us a way to transition to a good PK for the foreseeable future and we passed on it.  It was a mistake.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and we're still not sure it's a mistake.... the fact that after we let Badgley go, it took 6 weeks for a team to give him a shot is an obvious sign that he wasn't lighting the world on fire during preseason (if it was obvious he was going to be an all-time great NFL kicker, teams would have jumped on him much earlier).  Also, taking into account the Chargers demoted him to practice squad after signing him shows they had some doubts about him.

 

The guy attempted 16 field goals in his rookie season (making 15 and missing 1 of 2 from 50+).  He was 5/6 on FGs in the post-season.

 

If the guy goes on to have a 20+ year career and become the all-time greatest, we can be sure we made a mistake.  

 

Sure, AV is getting up there in years.  I don't think his production is dropping off that much.  Yes, he did have an injury which certainly seemed to negatively impact his performance for a small bit this season (an yes, there is usually some sort of correlation between age and injury).  Is he done and a wash-up?  No.  If he thinks he can fully recover from that injury and put in an offseason to strengthen up to avoid it happening again, and wants to come back and kick in the NFL again, he's more than qualified.

 

That is not to say we shouldn't be bringing in young legs to see if we find something special, but no way can we consider it a definitive mistake that a guy who has attempted 22 total FGs in the reg/post season is not on our team and the GOAT is.

 

There is also no question that Vinny has a strong locker room presence in Indy.  See Reich's press conference before/after our first round playoff win, he said Vinny addressed the team as the guy who had a lot of playoff experience on a roster with very little of it.

[Superman]

On 1/12/2019 at 8:44 PM, neug3246 said:

not popular opinion let AV walk. Also side note I am sick and tired of having a so called great kicker miss kicks in post season play

 

To the bolded: Huh? "So called"??? 

 

Knock it off.

 

Also, how are you sick of it, when this is the first time it's happened? When else has AV missed a playoff kick for us? When's the last time he even attempted a meaningful playoff kick?

 

Last thing, I believe the missed FG was tipped.

 

AV is the least of our concerns. If he wants to come back, he should come back.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

To the bolded: Huh? "So called"??? 

 

Knock it off.

 

Also, how are you sick of it, when this is the first time it's happened? When else has AV missed a playoff kick for us? When's the last time he even attempted a meaningful playoff kick?

 

Last thing, I believe the missed FG was tipped.

Oh but it is still a miss and proof he sucks as a kicker.... 

[HectorRoberts]

If vinny is done what do people think about bringing Cody parkey back? He spent some time here a few years back and he may be back on the market soon.

[Colts_Fan12]

49 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

If vinny is done what do people think about bringing Cody parkey back? He spent some time here a few years back and he may be back on the market soon.

How's about a big hell  no

[GoColts8818]

12 hours ago, Superman said:

 

To the bolded: Huh? "So called"??? 

 

Knock it off.

 

Also, how are you sick of it, when this is the first time it's happened? When else has AV missed a playoff kick for us? When's the last time he even attempted a meaningful playoff kick?

 

Last thing, I believe the missed FG was tipped.

 

AV is the least of our concerns. If he wants to come back, he should come back.

I don’t know if he’s the least of their concerns but I would agree there are more pressing ones.  

 

Also, I don’t know about the last time he missed a playoff kick for the Colts or attempted a meaningful playoff kick for the Colts but I do know they don’t win the Super Bowl in 06 without him.  Yes I know that was over a decade ago and has no baring on keeping him next year or not but I am not going to talk smack about Adam’s post season greatness because of it (and a few other kicks he’s made in the post season).  

[Superman]

10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t know if he’s the least of their concerns but I would agree there are more pressing ones.  

 

Also, I don’t know about the last time he missed a playoff kick for the Colts or attempted a meaningful playoff kick for the Colts but I do know they don’t win the Super Bowl in 06 without him.  Yes I know that was over a decade ago and has no baring on keeping him next year or not but I am not going to talk smack about Adam’s post season greatness because of it (and a few other kicks he’s made in the post season).  

 

Tied with QB? I mean, they should have their eye on the next kicker, and I'm absolutely fine with bringing in another leg, just like every year. But I'm not pushing AV out the door until he can't kick anymore.

 

I got nervous about AV when he got hurt earlier in the season. He came back just fine. I've rewatched that missed FG from Saturday a dozen times and I think it was tipped for sure. Probably wasn't a great kick to begin with, he said his footing was poor so he felt something was wrong also, but that's probably a make without someone getting a finger on it.

 

Last time AV missed a FG in the playoffs was the Pats game in 2014. It was a 51 yarder into the wind. The score was 7-0, and we lost 45-7. Hardly meaningful. 

 

He missed 9 of 79 kicks this year, including PATs, the playoffs, and blocked kicks. That's 88.6%. He can still kick, and he's still good from distance.

[Gramz]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

He missed 9 of 79 kicks this year, including PATs, the playoffs, and blocked kicks. That's 88.6%. He can still kick, and he's still good from distance.

Yep.  He made 70!  I think he'll know when the time has come to walk away and  I hope he's the one to make the decision.

[neug3246]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 11:43 AM, Superman said:

 

To the bolded: Huh? "So called"??? 

 

Knock it off.

 

Also, how are you sick of it, when this is the first time it's happened? When else has AV missed a playoff kick for us? When's the last time he even attempted a meaningful playoff kick?

 

Last thing, I believe the missed FG was tipped.

 

AV is the least of our concerns. If he wants to come back, he should come back.

Not just talking about AV when I said "So called" lets go back to the days when we had Vanderjagt

[neug3246]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 9:19 AM, JimJaime said:

AV isn’t a great kicker, he is the greatest of all time and the most clutch kicker I have ever seen.  It will be more interesting see which jersey he chooses to put into the hall when he retires..   

 

 

I wasn't only referring to AV in this post, Vanderjagt ring a bell in the name of colts kicker that missed playoff kicks...

[JimJaime]

1 minute ago, neug3246 said:

I wasn't only referring to AV in this post, Vanderjagt ring a bell in the name of colts kicker that missed playoff kicks...

He was anti clutch it felt to me.. the complete opposite of AV..