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  1. Ya, there was some chat about this in the recent thread about if Pagano was really a bad HC. I'm not saying Chuck was the best coach of all time, but how bad would that suck if you are a head coach and your GM is cutting away your solid players because he overpaid other players, or benching players for guys he made bad moves on (see Trent Richardson for example).
  2. This is kinda funny -- McAfee on how locker rooms deal with trades. I think he meant the Colts released (not traded) AQ Shipley because Grigs wanted to keep Satele who he overpaid. He doesn't say Grigs exactly, but you can tell that when Chuck called the team together to tell them 'these things happen, people above you make decisions and you have to trust it..' Maybe this should go into the recent thread about Chuck... but this is just one case of Grigs' ego getting in the way.
  3. They brought in kickers for tryouts several times and Vinny outperformed them... let's not forget that there is a reason why K's without a job are K's without a job (at least an NFL job). So, yea it was unfortunate that we lost a few extra games from poor kicking.. but no, I don't think that all falls on Ballard and Reich for not replacing AV. It's not like they didn't look for replacements, they just couldn't bring a guy off the streets who was better.
  4. The guy was a 2nd team all-pro just 2 years ago. That's not an opinion of mine that he doesn't 'suck' like you suggest. Get lost, troll.
  5. Them with Walker on running downs. Imagine what that group will be able to do if we get some big, athletic bodies on the IDL to free them up to run... it could be a very nice group.
  6. That's why I said I'll trust Ballard & Co. I don't know how Reich and Ballard have QBs ranked. It may not be a reach to draft a QB at 13 (or to move up or down to get one they like). However, unless they've got a lot of confidence in a guy, I'd be not at all disappointed in them taking a stud player at another position of need. Taking a QB at 13 just to take one (i.e., if Ballard and Reich are not fully confident in him) would be a worse set back than taking a stud at another position and sticking with Jacoby for another year. I trust the coaching staff and FO more than myself or anyone on this board to make those decisions. My point is, I don't think it's the end of the world if we're stuck with Jacoby for another season. There are plenty of improvements needed on this team which can be addressed otherwise.
  7. JB was very efficient the first 6 weeks or so of the season. He had a knee injury which some claim kept him from stepping into his throws, he lost a bunch of weapons, etc. He was very mediocre the rest of the season. It could be that teams just figured out with him at the helm, our O was going to be very vanilla, it could be he was hurt, it could be he lacked weapons, it could be that he's simply no good. It could be a combination of all those things. I trust Reich and Ballard to do the full evaluation to figure out the way to go forward. Personally, if one of the stud DL or WR is available at 13 and we'd be reaching for a QB there, I'd rather go with the stud DL or WR. Really, outside of LSU's QB who will go #1 overall, I don't see any QBs in this draft as being 'locks' as franchise QBs. Then on the FA market we have Rivers and potentially Eli, Brees and Brady as older QBs. Sounds like Rivers would be the only realistic option and who knows what we'd get from him. Then there's a bunch of talk about maybe Bridgewater or Carr, who are both kind of wild cards. Again, I'll trust Ballard & Co.... but I don't know that there is one specific answer to the question. There are a lot of good players in this draft at positions we need. I don't think we're entirely taking a step back if we stuck with Brissett and Kelly to see if either one of them could improve to become true starter level, so long as we fixed other glaring holes and added depth where needed. To be honest, I think we'd be better off in the long-run there rather than missing studs and reaching for a QB who is iffy at best.
  8. We're not necessarily going forward just by drafting an unproven QB or signing an old vet. We can go forward with Brissett if we make improvements to glaring areas of weakness we saw last year (pass rush, IDL play, at times secondary play, and lack of depth at WR/TE). Of course every team is trying to improve every year... but that doesn't mean we can't improve as a team if we don't overspend in FA or reach in the draft to get a new QB. I'll trust Ballard and Co. here to do what's best.
  9. And HOF credentials are based largely on stats... TY doesn't have them and won't have them when it's time to get voted in. That doesn't mean TY's not a very good player, it just means he likely isn't a HOFer. And to Marv's credit he played on some pretty bad teams his first few years in the league (there was a reason we had the #1 pick to get Peyton) and Peyton was nowhere near as good as Luck was as a rookie. In all, TY's had similar talent around him (maybe better considering he came into the league w/ likely HOFer Reggie Wayne as a teammate and Luck's numbers are not too far off what Peyton's where back during Marv's early career) for the start of his career. Additionally, Marv didn't really suffer any health issues until his second to last year when he blew his knee. It seems like TY's been hobbled fairly often these past 2 years... so if I had to bet, he probably won't have as long of a career as Marv. To get to 1,000 receptions and some other accolades needed for HOF, TY would have to likely play 15+ seasons, which I doubt happens. He's a very important player for this team. He's not a HOFer, though, barring some sort of miracle.
  10. Reich and Sirianni have connections to Rivers, so it makes sense that these rumors are floating around. It would make sense if Reich/Sirianni feel like River's is a significant improvement over Brissett for them to bring him in, since he'd have a good feel of the system right out of the gates. However, while I agree another season of JB may offer no top-tier QB play, I don't think it stops us from being able to win. Ballard said since day 1 that he doesn't build teams just around 1 player. We didn't get the greatest QB play from Brissett last year, but we had injuries all over the board and we had some really close games lost. For example, we could've easily been 9-7 or 10-6 if Vinny didn't have his kicking woes. We split with the Titans and Texans. The Titans went on to the AFC Championship game as the 6 seed and put up a good fight against eventual SB Champs KC, who we beat early in the year. If we improve our DL, keep our OL intact, and add some depth across the board and stay healthy, this team is very capable of winning the AFC South with Brissett at QB.
  11. I'm sure there has been some impact with his numbers due to injuries to Andrew. This past year, due to injuries from other players, he didn't have a lot of a supporting cast (i.e., Ebron, Funchess, Campbell, Fountain all missing significant time likely allowed teams to hone in on TY). That said, even with a healthy Luck and good players around him like Reggie Wayne, Fleener, Allen, etc. teams could take TY out easier than they could take Marvin out when he was in his prime. Look at the 2002 year when Marv had 143 receptions. Reggie was in his 2nd year and started just 7 games. Edge was still coming back from injury. We had Marcus Pollard, Joe Dean Davenport, Qadry Ishmael, and a few other names most people wouldn't remember on that team. Marvin was by far the primary weapon with not a lot of help around him to take pressure off. He was doubled or tripled every game and he still went out and caught ~9 balls a game. I don't see TY being able to do that, regardless of who his QB is/was. TY certainly impacts the game. I never said he didn't. I just said TY's a long shot for the HOF. Even if he had a healthy Luck the whole time, his numbers wouldn't be on par with Marvin. Marvin literally had 8 seasons in a row with more than 82 catches. TY's done that 3 times in 8 years, never having more than 100 catches. TY has made it to 4 pro-bowls. No first or 2nd-team All-Pros. He lead the NFL is receiving yards once.... again, I don't dislike TY, he's just not at Marv's level and I don't care who his QB is. Now let's look at Marv: Super Bowl champion (XLI) 8× Pro Bowl (1999–2006) 3× First-team All-Pro (1999, 2002, 2006) 5× Second-team All-Pro (2000, 2001, 2003–2005) 2× NFL receiving yards leader (1999, 2002) NFL receiving touchdowns co-leader (2005) 2× NFL receptions leader (2000, 2002) NFL 2000s All-Decade Team NFL 100th Anniversary All-Time Team Most receptions in a 7-season period (731), 1999–2005; 8 season period (826), 1999–2006; 9 season period (885), 1998–2006; 10 season period (958), 1997–2006; 11 season period (1,022), 1996–2006 Most games in a career with at least 8 receptions (51), 9 receptions (32), 11 receptions (12), 12 receptions (8) Most consecutive games with at least 6 receptions (16) and 9 receptions (6) Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdowns (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Terrell Owens, Frank Gore Most consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdowns (11) – shared with Terrell Owens, Jerry Rice, Don Hutson Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdown receptions (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Terrell Owens Most consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdown receptions (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson Most consecutive seasons with at least 10 touchdown receptions (8) Most consecutive seasons with at least 11 touchdown receptions (4)-tied with Lance Alworth, Art Powell Most consecutive seasons with at least 14 touchdown receptions (2)-tied with Jerry Rice Consecutive seasons with 1,400+ receiving yards (4); 1999–2002 Consecutive seasons with 82+ receptions (8); 1999–2006 Most games in a single season (2002) with at least 6 receptions (15), 7 receptions (12)-broken by Antonio Brown, 8 receptions (12), 9 receptions (10)-tied by Julio Jones, 11 receptions (5) Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for most completions between a Wide Receiver and Quarterback with 953. Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for passing touchdowns between a WR and QB with 112. Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for passing yards between a WR and QB with 12,766. Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for completions in a season between a WR and QB with 143 in 2002. First player to record 2 seasons of 1,600 yards receiving in NFL history, (1999 & 2002). (Torry Holt became the 2nd, (2000 & 2003), Antonio Brown became the 3rd (2014 & 2015)). First player to have 50+ receptions in his first 11 seasons in NFL history. (Torry Holt became the 2nd on December 27, 2009) Most consecutive seasons of 1,000+ all-purpose yards and 10+ touchdown receptions (8), 1999–2006 On December 18, 2006, Marvin Harrison and Indianapolis Colt teammate Reggie Wayne became the only NFL wide receiver tandem to catch 75 receptions and 1,000 yards in 3 straight seasons. The game was on Monday Night and was played against the Cincinnati Bengals. On November 17, 2002, made his 600th career reception against the Dallas Cowboys On October 12, 2003, made his 700th career reception against the Carolina Panthers. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 114 games On November 8, 2004, made his 800th career reception against the Minnesota Vikings. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 131 games On November 20, 2005, made his 900th career reception against the Cincinnati Bengals. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 149 career games On December 10, 2006, made his 1000th reception against the Jacksonville Jaguars. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 167 career games On December 28, 2008, made his 1,100th career reception against the Tennessee Titans in his last regular season game and his last game in Indianapolis. He is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 190 career games. Most receptions over first 7 seasons (665), 8 seasons (759), 9 seasons (845), 10 seasons (927), 11 seasons (1,022) and 13 seasons (1,102) of career of any NFL receiver Most consecutive games with a reception to start a career (190) Most average receptions per game in a career (5.8) – 1996–2008 Most consecutive games with 8+ receiving yards (190), (206 if counting playoffs) – every game Most consecutive games with a 6+ yard reception (190), (206 if counting playoffs) – every game Most consecutive games with an 8+ yard reception (177), (192 if counting playoffs)
  12. I think being 'unimportant' and not being HOF caliber are two different things. Hilton has been in the league for 8 years. He has never had more than 100 receptions in a season. Marvin did it 4 times in his first 7 years with 94 receptions in his 8th year (TY's got 2 seasons with 82 catches, 1 with 91 and only one other with over 70 so 4 over 70 total in his first 8). Marv led the league in receptions and receiving yards 2x during his first 8 years and had 5 seasons with over 10 TDs. TY has never had a season with more than 7 TDs. Marv had his year with 143 receptions when he was double or triple teamed every game. TY can be taken out of games effectively by being double teamed. If you go past the first 8, Marv had a stretch where he had >1,000 yards and 10+ TDs for 8 straight years (the best streak in NFL history). I highly doubt TY's going to pull that task off considering he's never had a single season with >7 TDs. Reggie had 5 of his first 8 seasons w/ >70 catches, 4 of them >80 catches and 1 with 100 catches. He then had 3 more 100+ reception seasons later in his career. Reggie had 10+ TDs twice in his first 8 years compared to 0 for TY. All Marv, Reggie and TY had 5 seasons w/ >1,000 yards in their first 8 seasons. TY's body also doesn't seem to be holding up all that well. He has had injuries the past couple years which obviously impacted his play. At his current pace, he'd likely need to last 15 seasons to make it to 1,000 receptions, which is pretty much the minimum to be considered for the HOF at the WR position unless you're someone who got hurt early and completely impacted the game (e.g., Megatron). Don't get me wrong, I like TY a lot. He's a special player when he's healthy. But I highly doubt he's a HOFer, especially if the QB play doesn't improve around here. I think TY is versatile enough to move inside or outside. He's shown he can play outside, mainly because his speed. But yes, look at the year Marv had 143 receptions. He was double or triple teamed every single game. Teams knew what was coming and they couldn't stop him. While I don't think TY's a bad route runner, Marv by many accounts was the best route runner in the game when he played (Peanut Tillman, Shawn Springs, Champ Bailey are all on record saying this, and I think a few other top-tier CBs said the same thing). Again, I like TY a lot. However, without weapons around him, he can be taken out of games regardless of who his QB is. Marvin was very rarely taken out of games (unless you consider the Pats game in which Ty Law was basically tackling Marvin at the line of scrimmage, a game which changed the NFL history since Polian got the rules changed that offseason to make it a lot easier on WRs than it was then).
  13. In 2018, teams definitely were avoiding him. In 2019, he got targeted slightly more, but for the most part I don't think he's a guy that teams are 'picking on.' I thought he played more physically last year, and think he can be a very good (at worst he's slightly above middle of the pack, at best potentially top 5 FS in the NFL). We need to address other issues on this team and everyone's play should improve. IMO, Hooker's nowhere near one of our biggest problems on the team and not one we need to target fixing anytime in the near future. Kenny Moore is a very good slot CB, but I really don't think he's that great on the outside. I have a hard time ranking him our 2nd best D player. I'd say after Leonard, it'd go something like Houston, Walker and then Moore. I think we have a couple other guys that'll also surpass Moore next year with more time to develop (Okereke, Ya-Sin, Turay if healthy are three that come to mind). If we had a higher scoring offense and we improved our DL, it'd really help our DBs. I always say Mathis and Freeney, if they get into the HOF, should thank Peyton for allowing them to truly be pass rush specialists. Neither of them were very good against the run, Freeney was actually fairly awful against the run... but our O scored so much back then, we could make other team's O one-dimensional and just allow Freeney and Mathis to pin their ears back. If our O wasn't so good back then, I have a hard time believing Freeney would have had as many sacks as he had... he had one job and that was to get the QB because we rarely had to worry about being run on. Either way, even if our O doesn't significantly improve, we need to improve the DL and be able to get much more consistent pressure on the other QB.
  14. Well, there were rumors that Grigs would go over Pagano's head with decisions. It sounds like they are mostly true. For example, Grigs made the T-Richardson trade. The guy was awful, but rumors were that Pagano wanted to bench him but Grigson wouldn't let him. I don't know if you follow Pat McAfee's show, but he bashes Grigson still to this day. He said the working environment around that guy was just terrible. Imagine being a head coach and being told by your GM, you can't bench so-and-so for his performance because it'd hurt the GM's ego. I believe that's why Pagano was allowed to stay a year after Grigs, because Irsay realized how bad a choice he made hiring Grigs and wanted to see what Pags could do without Grigson calling his shots. I agree that we did not have much depth. We also had several positions that just had low quality players because of Grigson. Grigson overspent on a lot of FAs like Landry, RJF, Walden (at least for his first couple years), etc. Then he went out and tried to be a hero by signing guys like Adongo and letting them have roster spots. However, I think a big part of the reason Ballard has cleaned house has to do with scheme fits. We have a way different scheme in all 3 phases of the game with the new regime. There are several guys who have left and have been pretty good on other teams: (1) Frank Gore -- doesn't really count since he's a lock to be 1st ballot HOF, (2) Phillip Dorsett is much better in NE than he ever was in Indy, (3) Austin Blythe is the starting RG for St. Louis, (4) Jonnathan Harrison I believe started for the Jets last year, (5) Denzell Good is pretty good for OAK, (6) Henry Anderson is all right for NYJ, (7) Hassan Ridgeway was having a decent year in Philly before he got hurt..... so it's not like all Pagano had was garbage. He certainly didn't have a good OL or good depth across the board, though, which I think is largely Grigson's fault.
  15. Yea, no way to predict injuries... with a healthy Funchess, Campbell, and Fountain to compliment TY, that group hypothetically should be pretty solid. I thought Campbell really showed strides in improving his game throughout the season, though it was unfortunate that every time he showed glimpses of what he may become, he would get re-injured. And Funchess from pre-season and the little bit we saw of him in game 1 looked to have pretty solid chemistry with Brissett. From a recent interview, it sounds like Ballard wants Funchess back. If we can't sign him before the draft, I expect we'll get a big-bodied guy there. I tend to think we're going to draft one either way. Jacoby's play definitely declined after week 6 last year (he had 14 of his 18 TDs in the first 6 games). Obviously, he was a step back from Luck. However, I still can't pinpoint his decline over the season. Was it a) he had a lack of targets due to all our injuries? b) Jacoby's knee injury taking some zip off his throws? c) teams figuring out how to game plan against him, or d) Jacoby just not being all that good of a QB? My guess is, all 4 factored into that... I certainly think he would've been a little better without the injuries and with a better WR corps, but can't say how much. That said, I don't think the lack of talent at WR last year was due to CB not trying to build that position group anywhere near as much as it was due to unexpected injuries.
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