Colts Looking to Develop Chad Kelly

[Imgrandojji]

Brissett will be doing his thing years after Watson blows out his knees and retires

[CanuckColt]

4 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Brissett will be doing his thing years after Watson blows out his knees and retires

Be careful what you say about another QB...Karma may come and visit it upon your QB.

[Imgrandojji]

1 minute ago, CanuckColt said:

Be careful what you say about another QB...Karma may come and visit it upon your QB.

Just a fact.  That style of QB tends to burn twice as bright and half as long. '

 

The exceptions are the ones that learn to transition into a pocket passer role as their bodies slow down.

[fahlman]

6 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

I guess I have become used to the exciting Manning/Luck style of QB and before that the Unitas/Bert Jones style. I have a difficult time watching "Checkdown Charlie" Brissett run the Colts team. I have NFL Sunday Ticket and I find myself watching other teams now more than the Colts...and I have been a Colts fan for more than 50 years. Too bad we don't have Deshaun Watson instead.

What did you do during the '72 - '74, '78 - '86, and '88 - '94 seasons? These are good times compared to those seasons.

[Rally5]

1 minute ago, fahlman said:

What did you do during the '72 - '74, '78 - '86, and '88 - '94 seasons? These are good times compared to those seasons.

87 was sketchy too, not some dream season...hahaha!

[jvan1973]

20 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

I guess I have become used to the exciting Manning/Luck style of QB and before that the Unitas/Bert Jones style. I have a difficult time watching "Checkdown Charlie" Brissett run the Colts team. I have NFL Sunday Ticket and I find myself watching other teams now more than the Colts...and I have been a Colts fan for more than 50 years. Too bad we don't have Deshaun Watson instead.

How about the years between Jones and Manning?  How exciting were those years?

[Smoke317]

I see that one of Chad Kelly's * accounts (Rebel) trying to do anything to keep his name alive.  CK ain't seeing no action barring injury.  Deal with it or not.  Just a shame y'all gave the 3rd string QB 6 pages of comments.  Get a grip on reality.

 

And oh yeah, just like all the other QB's y'all are quick to anoint as better than JB, CK could fall on his face just like them.  Look at Baker.  Look at Rosen.  Look at Minshew today.  Look at Goff & his 78 yards passing.  Y'all JB haters would slob all over those guys but crap on JB...  

 

I wonder what the real reason they keep getting your praise & faith while JB gets your scorn???  It clearly has nothing to do with winning. 

[Four2itus]

[Four2itus]

This thread.........

 

[CurBeatElite]

On 10/12/2019 at 3:18 PM, CanuckColt said:

There should be no surprise here that Brissett is just a game manager...it is what he does and is competent to do...it is how Reich uses him and is comfortable using him...getting the ball to the playmakers and letting them get the yards.

 

We also have not really been fully healthy all year.  Cain had training camp/preseason woes.  Funchess went down week 1.  TY's been dealing with nagging injuries and missed a game.  We lost Fountain very early.  I don't think he's been hurt, but Ebron's had his share of easy drops.  Campbell missed last week w/ his abdominal issue and dealt with a hamstring most of preseason.

 

Assuming we get healthy (obviously we won't get Fountain back, but we should have everyone else back within a few weeks), I have to think Reich is going to expand the offensive playbook a bit.  

 

On 10/12/2019 at 3:43 PM, SteelCityColt said:

If he’s not figured out how to use his arm by now... 

 

if he was flinging it around, but tossing picks because he’s made a bad read of the D, I could understand that more. 
 

Either he’s not ready for the training wheels to come off, which is also worrying given his experience, or he’s gun shy. 

 

His experience in the NFL largely came in Indy the year Luck sat out.  That was a much worse team than the 2019 Indy Colts.  He had a different coaching staff, less talented players around him (including but not limited to a very poor OL), and was in a totally different scheme.  So while he has some NFL experience, he was still in a very different role last time he saw the field very regularly.

 

Additionally, as I stated above, our skill positions have not been fully healthy all year and we have several guys people had high hopes for prior to the season who are still very young (mainly Campbell and Cain).  I truly expect Reich/Sirriani to open the playbook a bit in the 2nd half of the season when our players are healthy and Brissett has more time to develop chemistry with them.

 

Finally, Reich said before the season (even before Luck retired) that the goal was to be a top 5 rushing team in the NFL.  We are currently 5th in the NFL in rushing yards per game (142).  It is very clear that Reich wasn't kidding when he said that and we have put a large emphasis on running the ball, which plays an obvious role in reducing the amount of yards we gain through the air.

 

On 10/12/2019 at 3:39 PM, Imgrandojji said:

Being a skilled Game Manager early in your career is a pretty good basis to build on. 

 

Generally speaking if you're an actual game manager it's because you lack certain obvious talents to be anything more than that. Definitely not the case with Brissett.

 

Brian Hoyer was a game manager because he was smart but didn't have much of an arm.  Other game managers like Smith, Flacco, Cassel etc are usually held back by a lack of physical ability, a literal inability to make key deep throws.

 

Brissett has a great arm, he's just still figuring out how to use it.  He's got the talent to make deep throws once he gets his head around the way Reich wants him to do it.

 

 If, while figuring that out, he's good enough to manage the team to wins against tough opponents, I call that a pretty good deal.

 

Flacco has one of the strongest arms in the NFL.  Earlier in his career (when he became the first QB in NFL History to make it to the playoffs in his first 5 seasons in the league), he had the strongest arm in the NFL.  

 

On 10/12/2019 at 4:00 PM, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t think Kelly will ever get a chance to be a starter with the colts. No matter how much he stays out of trouble they will never be able to trust him. You want to be able to give to sleep without worrying about your QB. Right now he could eventually be the backup next season or he is going to be on another team.

 

Ballard has said time and again (and not just about Kelly) that he understands kids making mistakes and is willing to give 2nd chances.  Reich is also a good friend of Kelly's uncle, Jim Kelly whom Reich was teammates with for roughly a decade.  Kelly had some maturity issues in college (which a lot of college kids have) and I get the impression that a lot of that was due to a feeling of entitlement being the nephew of a HOF NFL QB.  When he was on the Broncos, he got in trouble for getting drunk and walking into the wrong house (not that I condone this, but a lot of 22-23 year old guys have done very similar things and it really isn't a huge deal, it was a drunken mistake -- I'd be a lot more worried if he was arrested for a violent crime or was dealing drugs or something).  I'm sure Kelly understands he's on a tight leash, and I'm sure Reich/Ballard/Uncle Jim and many others have made that very clear to him.  

 

If he keeps himself clean and shows up to work everyday, I would really not be shocked to see Reich/Ballard gain trust in him... 

[MPStack]

4 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

This thread.........

 

The 22 page CK thread was much better. I don’t think this thread is going as planned. 

[King Colt]

Whatever the Colts decide to do I just hope whoever they choose they commit to at 110%. I don't want to see them spin the wheel every 1 1/2 seasons for a different QB like Miami, the Jets or the Texans.

[HOF19]

So Chad Kelly is now in the all-time NFL History books for the record he now has ……...His record ???????..... Most talked about practice squad player IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL !!!!!!!!!...….That's is a WOW !!!!!!

[HOF19]

I'll start a pool...…. I say this thread goes 60 pages .

[ojsglove]

To bring the subject of race into any thread in this forum is totally repugnant to me.  Liking or disliking a player should be based on their skills not the color of their skin.  Totally disgusted, this thread has gone on too long.

[2006Coltsbestever]

21 minutes ago, HOF19 said:

I'll start a pool...…. I say this thread goes 60 pages .

Gosh darn it, my over over/under for this thread was 60.5 pages  

[Imgrandojji]

On 10/12/2019 at 7:38 PM, Chloe6124 said:

It was pretty bad in the falcons game too. JB threw for over 300 yards. 

So his 2 best throwing games happened when the run attack stopped giving Reich what he wanted.

 

Almost like Brissett is playing exactly the way Reich wants him to.

[IndySouthsider]

On 10/12/2019 at 4:56 PM, Smonroe said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if the Steelers try to Steel (pun intended) him.  
 

I think he’s our #2 next season.

Duck Hodges is better

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

Duck Hodges is better

The Duck rules  

[Scott Pennock]

On 10/12/2019 at 4:42 PM, EastStreet said:

 

Honest question. If we end up 8-8 or worse, and JB's stats rank in the bottom half at the end of the year, are you happy with starting the 2020 season with JB as the "guy". 

As a GM I would never be happy unless I knew I had a true franchise QB. 

 

Would I use all my fraft capital to move up snd throw all my eggs into one basket, probably not.

 

However, I would evaluate the talent and find that unfinished product to develop. Aka someone like a Jordan Love from Utah that has all of the physical gifts but not the best supporting cast and develop him in a system (like Reichs) and let him grow and overtake the less takented QB.

 

 

[TimetobringDfence!]

6 hours ago, colt18 said:

It’s clear to me than none of you will admit that if Chad Kelly was black he wouldn’t be getting as many chances. The fact you will go as far to compare the last drafted player in his class to a top 10 draft pick as if they are equally talented says a lot.

 

We can agree to disagree.

 

 

Chad Kelley has physical gifts. Very strong arm and was tested the most accurate QB ever by sports science.

[EastStreet]

22 hours ago, LockeDown said:

  It’s not like Rebel and EastStreet picked Kelly and Reich picked Jacoby. They are both Reichs guys.  He had a hand in bringing both of them to the Colts and we should indeed trust him to sift everything out. 

Also, the Colts have an analytics team. Theoretically, their data should match your data. So why shouldn’t we fanboys trust him to make the right decision regarding the most important position? Or do you think he is too biased in favor of Jacoby?

 

I'm a fan of every player on our roster. I've said numerous times, I hope JB improves and is the "guy". That said, I also hope Kelly keeps his nose clean and develops as well. I'm fine with talking about both of their issues or challenges. 

 

To answer your question about trust, I don't have blind faith in any GM or Coach. All of them make mistakes, and at the end of the season, there's only one SB winner. I'm very pleased with the the overwhelming majority of Ballard's decisions thus far, but not all, and I don't worship at his alter. Same goes with Reich. In time, I could start worshiping a little if they have sustained success.

 

On your question about their potential bias. I certainly don't envy either one of them (Ballard or Reich) with the situation they inherited (with Luck retiring). Luck wasn't perfect, but he came to Indy with the pedigree, prolific college stats at a major D1, checked the boxes in terms of skill sets, was the 1st overall pick, etc.. JB was a guy who had an OK career at a low tier D1, struggled with some basic skill sets, didn't have the best stats, was a late 3rd round pick, and was 3rd string for the Pats before we traded for him. All that is just fact, and it is what it is. 

 

All that said, the above (history) doesn't matter now. It's what JB does on the field that matters. He's earned his shot. Thus far it's been a very mixed bag, some nice ups, some bad downs..... But there's no debating he's still struggling with some fundamentals (reads/progressions, touch). Getting back to your question, about bias. Given where we are, and how we got here, I don't see any bias thus far. They are making the best with what they have given the timing of Luck's retirement. I wouldn't trust Kelly either given his history at this point, but that doesn't mean he can't earn trust back. If JB improves his fundamentals, and becomes a guy that can win a game (instead of managing it), then I'll be very happy to stick with him. If however he doesn't improve, I'm fine with moving on and either giving Kelly a chance, or drafting someone new. It's that simple.

[EastStreet]

17 hours ago, fahlman said:

Kelly fan here, but Brissett's 27th passing yards per game is obviously skewed due to the fact that as a team the Colts are 5th in the league in rushing yards per game with an average of 142.0 yards.

I'm ecstatic with our running success. I do think the reason however that it's so skewed, is simply the fact they are keeping the training wheels on JB. Being 5th in the league likely won't get us far unless we can be more balanced. 

[EastStreet]

16 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I'm not always looking to be positive (wait, yes I am ).  But let's be realistic about deficiencies.

 

Every player has deficiencies.  Manning had happy feet and tried to go deep too much when he started out his career.  Luck held on to the ball too long and when he missed his receivers, he missed them high, and it happened enough it was brought up on this forum a lot early on in his career.  No matter who is playing QB, there will be deficiencies in their game that they need to improve.  I'm gonna root for the guy that Reich puts on the field, no matter who it is.

 

I'm not saying JB is more talented than Kelly, just that they each have their own strengths and weaknesses, and for right now, I'd rather have JB out there.  I don't think he's going to lose us any games as a game manager, but I don't think JB can go out and win us a playoff game if we're down 38-10, either.    (of course, I hope I'm wrong about that  )  He has the physical tools, he would just need to REALLY improve his ability to go through his progressions quickly and deliver the ball on time to become the type of QB that can take over a playoff game.  Maybe that will happen in the next two months, we'll see.  

 

I agree 100%. I will absolutely be cheering for whoever is under center.

 

And yes, everyone has deficiencies. It's simply a question of how much their efficiencies outweigh their deficiencies. 

[EastStreet]

10 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

But he is winning.  Frank Reich-

 

“I just think he’s playing winning football week in and week out,” the head coach said. “Jacoby is very unselfish. He has a good feel for each game, for what it takes to win each game. When he has had to throw it more for us to win, he embraces that. Then when we’ve got it going in the run game, he feels that. He’s on the sideline calling for runs as well. He’s handled the communication, A+.”

 

 

Honestly I view that as coach speak. I don't expect him to be outwardly critical of someone he's trying to develop (to the media).

 

JB has a lot of great things going for him. He also has some challenges/limitations. He's got time to improve. IMO, the last 7 games of the season will tell us all we need to know.

 

 

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

As a GM I would never be happy unless I knew I had a true franchise QB. 

 

Would I use all my fraft capital to move up snd throw all my eggs into one basket, probably not.

 

However, I would evaluate the talent and find that unfinished product to develop. Aka someone like a Jordan Love from Utah that has all of the physical gifts but not the best supporting cast and develop him in a system (like Reichs) and let him grow and overtake the less takented QB.

 

Not saying I want to draft someone at this point, but if we did....

 

Assuming we end up with a middle 1st round pick, I'd have zero problem with using our two 2nd rounders to move up a little to get a guy. There is no QB next year that I think is worth using multiple 1st rounders (this year plus future) for. Maybe the following year with Lawrence, but definitely not mortgaging the future for anyone in the 2020 draft. That said, there are several guys that I think could develop into pretty good QBs. I was honestly high on taking Minshew in the later rounds this year thinking JB would leave after this year. Jax got a steal. If JB continues to struggle, I would like to get a look at Kelly late in the season to see what his potential would be.

[zibby43]

On 10/12/2019 at 5:45 PM, Chloe6124 said:

This is such a good point. Most of the time game managers don’t have great arms. JB can make all the throws. Even elite ones. People need to give him time to figure it out and quit expecting him to be luck. The faster   You realize that the more your going to enjoy the season. You can’t teach arm strength. He has all the tools. Now he just needs to put it all together to reach the next level.

 

 

He has 2 great physical tools: size, arm strength.  He's also a great leader.  Unfortunately, he lacks a lot of elite "intangibles" that can't be taught.  Some things, you either have or you don't. 

 

He doesn't have: a quick release (he has one of the slowest deliveries in the league); an abundance of touch (a contributing factor, I think, to the Ebron drops); anticipation (he has not demonstrated an ability to "throw" guys open; if a WR/TE/RB isn't wide open, JB isn't pulling the trigger); great eyes (I don't think I've once seen JB "look off" a safety; re-watching the all-22 of the Chiefs game, he straight-up just locks onto his WRs). 

 

These are all things that have been listed on scouting reports re: Brisett.  And so far this season, he hasn't magically overcome these deficiencies.

 

The Colts can win games with JB, but I don't think he's going to be the answer at QB. 

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Chad Kelley has physical gifts. Very strong arm and was tested the most accurate QB ever by sports science.

 

Correction "The most accurate QB ever tested by Sports Science"

 

It's not like it's a standard metric across the board. 

[SteelCityColt]

MOD NOTE

 

I've used my "Mod Privilege" to remove a number of posts that while loosely related to the topic aren't in line with the site rules and would no doubt veer towards topics best left alone. 

 

 

[SteelCityColt]

11 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Some guys are never ready for the training wheels to come off.  Take- Jameis Winston first pick in the  draft 2015. Freshman Heisman Trophy winner, Rose Bowl as sophomore. College baseball player too (like Wilson and Mahomes). His head coach is Bruce Arians, the QB whisperer.  Winston is now going into his 5th year in the league! Today in London Jameis posted these numbers-

 

           
                                   C/ATT    YDS    %      TD    INT    SACKS    RTG       Y/A
Jameis Winston       30/54    400   55.5      1        5        7-35        46        7.40

 

Of course the Bucs lost, to 'game manage' Kyle Allen and Panthers-

 

                                   C/ATT    YDS    %      TD    INT    SACKS    RTG       Y/A
Kyle Allen                 20/32    209   62.5      2        0        2-18     104.6      6.53

 

I'd rather win wih Kyle's game manager numbers than lose with Jameis massive and gaudy passing.

 

Now now this is a bit of a strawman. It's one game, in which both QBs were playing so they had a direct impact on each other's numbers. I mean it was hard in some ways for Allen to put up yards when his D kept gifting him great starting position.

 

To your wider comparison, Allen is a backup covering for a starter and they have a RB lighting it up. I'm not surprised they've kept it quite conservative. Even then, it's never been an O built on gaudy passing numbers. 

 

Winston.. is when you've found out the answer to "is he the guy", but at least you won't die knowing. Has the arm, doesn't have the QB smarts IMO. I'd certainly rather have the latter than former if I had to choose one. But what's wrong with wanting both? 

 

Again... and I will keep repeating this, why is it so wrong to want to see if Brissett is capable of slinging it when needed. Quite prepared to be patient, but also not going to ignore that he has some worrying shortcomings so far and it's not just his reluctance to push it deep. Progressions, locking onto receivers, a few misdiagnoses of defenses (overly critical of me I know). I'd almost be more forgiving if he was trying to make plays and making mistakes, but he's being very conservative and still making some fundamental errors. In a short span of games you'd live with it, but the hope is that he's going to be our guy for years right?

[EastStreet]

25 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Now now this is a bit of a strawman. It's one game, in which both QBs were playing so they had a direct impact on each other's numbers. I mean it was hard in some ways for Allen to put up yards when his D kept gifting him great starting position.

 

To your wider comparison, Allen is a backup covering for a starter and they have a RB lighting it up. I'm not surprised they've kept it quite conservative. Even then, it's never been an O built on gaudy passing numbers. 

 

Winston.. is when you've found out the answer to "is he the guy", but at least you won't die knowing. Has the arm, doesn't have the QB smarts IMO. I'd certainly rather have the latter than former if I had to choose one. But what's wrong with wanting both? 

 

Again... and I will keep repeating this, why is it so wrong to want to see if Brissett is capable of slinging it when needed. Quite prepared to be patient, but also not going to ignore that he has some worrying shortcomings so far and it's not just his reluctance to push it deep. Progressions, locking onto receivers, a few misdiagnoses of defenses (overly critical of me I know). I'd almost be more forgiving if he was trying to make plays and making mistakes, but he's being very conservative and still making some fundamental errors. In a short span of games you'd live with it, but the hope is that he's going to be our guy for years right?

 

It's also worth mentioning that Carolina has a top ten OL, while TB's OL is bottom 10. 

I've never been a fan of Winston, but it's much easier being a QB for Car, and it's certainly nice to have a guy like McCaffrey to take the pressure off a backup.

 

Also, didn't Winston have like 5 INTs and 2 fumbles. Pretty hard to win with 7 turnovers. Very surprised Carolina didn't beat them by more. I think Winston's QBR was under 10.0 lol.

 

 

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

It's also worth mentioning that Carolina has a top ten OL, while TB's OL is bottom 10. 

I've never been a fan of Winston, but it's much easier being a QB for Car, and it's certainly nice to have a guy like McCaffrey to take the pressure off a backup.

 

Also, didn't Winston have like 5 INTs and 2 fumbles. Pretty hard to win with 7 turnovers. Very surprised Carolina didn't beat them by more. I think Winston's QBR was under 10.0 lol.

 

 

 

Winston is a frustrating one for sure, shows glimpses of being very capable, but then will have moments of complete implosion. I don't think he's losing the starting gig anytime soon, but I do think they move on from him after this season which adds another team into the mix for QB hunting in the draft. 

 

If that does happen it will be interesting to see what he can get on the open market, because he's not really the ideal type QB you'd want as a backup and I can't see him getting another starting gig elsewhere. 

[lollygagger8]

I got to page 3 and had to quit this thread 

 

 

[Myles]

53 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Winston is a frustrating one for sure, shows glimpses of being very capable, but then will have moments of complete implosion. I don't think he's losing the starting gig anytime soon, but I do think they move on from him after this season which adds another team into the mix for QB hunting in the draft. 

 

If that does happen it will be interesting to see what he can get on the open market, because he's not really the ideal type QB you'd want as a backup and I can't see him getting another starting gig elsewhere. 

I wouldn't count him out of that yet.   He's certainly not going to get high starter money, but QB's like Flacco still get starting gigs.   I don't know which team would look at him, but someone would give him a try.   

 

[SteelCityColt]

11 minutes ago, Myles said:

I wouldn't count him out of that yet.   He's certainly not going to get high starter money, but QB's like Flacco still get starting gigs.   I don't know which team would look at him, but someone would give him a try.   

 

 

It's more the I can't think of a team who would be willing to chance him, a long way to go though before the end of the season. Maybe he comes good and makes TB rethink. 

[Valpo2004]

I would have made him the backup behind Brissett.  But there is no reason to think he should be starting right now.  

 

He's got a lot of raw arm talent and good athleticism.  But you need a QB to be a mature leader on and off the field and you need a QB to be smart.  Brissett already has those qualities.  We're not yet sure about Kelly.

 

Let's make sure the man can go a whole year without getting into trouble.  

[WoolMagnet]

11 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I think you may need the unabridged version.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

I got to page 3 and had to quit this thread 

 

 

Is this how a mute boos at a game?

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

I got to page 3 and had to quit this thread 

 

 

 

Be happy you didn't see the worst of it.

 

The first half of this thread deserves a thumbs-down.

 

The stuff that got removed from the second half of this thread deserves two thumbs-down.

 

[Nickster]

14 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I see that one of Chad Kelly's * accounts (Rebel) trying to do anything to keep his name alive.  CK ain't seeing no action barring injury.  Deal with it or not.  Just a shame y'all gave the 3rd string QB 6 pages of comments.  Get a grip on reality.

 

And oh yeah, just like all the other QB's y'all are quick to anoint as better than JB, CK could fall on his face just like them.  Look at Baker.  Look at Rosen.  Look at Minshew today.  Look at Goff & his 78 yards passing.  Y'all JB haters would slob all over those guys but crap on JB...  

 

I wonder what the real reason they keep getting your praise & faith while JB gets your scorn???  It clearly has nothing to do with winning. 

 

 Here we go again.