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Shadow_Creek

Doyle Vs Ebron Who Has The Edge??

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Let me first start off by saying i like both TE's and i think they both contribute gracefully in there own awesome ways. However if i were to give an edge to the better player i would go with Ebron due to his explosiveness after the catch you just cant beat that.

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Ebron is a touchdown machine. Doyle brings a different skill set 

 

Ebron wins

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2 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

Let me first start off by saying i like both TE's and i think they both contribute gracefully in there own awesome ways. However if i were to give an edge to the better player i would go with Ebron due to his explosiveness after the catch you just cant beat that.

 

I would give the edge to Ebron right now strictly based on health.  Ebron is also a better athlete and more of a receiving threat.


Doyle is a better blocker and is reliable in short yard passing situations, but doesn't really seem to have the athleticism to put a ton of fear into defenses like Ebron can.

 

They really are two totally different players.  In my opinion, I think it's easier to replace a guy like Doyle than a guy like Ebron mainly due to raw athletic ability.  

 

Either way, I hope Doyle's hip recovers to a point where he is back to old form and can play a full season for us --- if so, we have one of (if not the) best TE Duo's in the NFL.

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It’s almost like comparing two different positions.  They’re both great at their position. 

 

I agree with @CurBeatElite, Ebron is special, he’s the Farrari.  Doyle is the Ford f250.  Both do what they do very well when used correctly.  

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Two years ago...probably Doyle in his prime. But not at his current age...and with the current question marks surrounding his hips. 

 

 

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I would've given the edge to Ebron but I think it's a tie for me because Doyle can block.  Ebron is fun to watch though especially in the Red Zone.

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Id take Doyel in the Clutch and overall.

Id take Ebron as a dynamic threat to do things when the matchups favor him.

 

So... yeah, just like last year :D

 

Ebron isn't going to be an every down player that Doyel can be. Ebron cannot block like Doyel can, and his hands are not the most reliable. Doyel can stay on the field in ever situation: Ebron is an obvious passing. If I recall, when Ebron was on the field it was a strong %  increase in the likelyhood of it being a pass. Doyel breaks that trend.

 

Now, if you were asking whom should we sign next year to a longer deal?... Well, give it another year

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43 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

Let me first start off by saying i like both TE's and i think they both contribute gracefully in there own awesome ways. However if i were to give an edge to the better player i would go with Ebron due to his explosiveness after the catch you just cant beat that.

 

I’m a very big Doyle fan.   Always have been.   He and Luck have a special chemistry which you have to value. 

 

But Jack is 4-5 years older and plays the more blue collar position.   He’s easier (NOT easy) to replace than Ebron who has a different skill set. 

 

If you have to favor one over the other, it’s Ebron.   That said, I hope we can bring Doyle back on a decent short term deal.   I just wouldn’t bank on it. 

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I dont see why we'd have to choose. Unless Ebron does score 17 tds, neither TE should break the bank

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Well, Doyle plays and blocks on the edge along with the OL, so I will say he has the edge. :) 

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7 hours ago, Shadow_Creek said:

Let me first start off by saying i like both TE's and i think they both contribute gracefully in there own awesome ways. However if i were to give an edge to the better player i would go with Ebron due to his explosiveness after the catch you just cant beat that.

 

I don’t think either has an edge they both play a role in the offense, Doyle more of a blocking , possession TE. Ebron more of a hybrid WR/TE. They each serve a role in the offense. 

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It depends on what you need a tightend to do.  While they play the same position they do it two very different ways which is why they are such a good 1 2 punch for the Colts.  It’s a lot like when Dilger and Pollard were here.  Both were stars in their own ways.

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Ebron wins if he cleans up his drops, Doyle wins if he stays healthy. If they both do these things than we will have a great 1-2 punch at TE

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If Ebron scores over 10 TD's this year he'll get a way bigger offer than we'll be willing to pay I would think.  (I sure don't want to chase a giant contract offer by an *ic team or one that just wants to screw us while getting a red zone target).  I doubt Doyle gets another contract if he has any health issues going forward.  If he did it would be very low end.  I could see not having either soon enough which is why I was so pro-draft a quality dual threat TE prospect in the round appropriate to their value.  Either we didn't pass one or they just weren't interested.  But without a young talent on board, we'll be disadvantaged in any negotiation to resign Ebron.  Perhaps one of the other guys will step up big, but I don't see it beyond our top two guys.  Doyle kind of came out of nowhere, so perhaps it will happen again.  

 

My preference is Doyle.  Reliable, chemistry, dual threat (blocking/catching).  I don't care about his athleticism as long as he can get open when needed and he has been able to do that.  He's getting older, but like QB, TE's are playing older and older.  So perhaps he's got some life left as long as his health holds up.  

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I'd go with Doyle.   His blocking ability is crucial for a TE.   He also has great hands and gets open to make crucial 3rd down catches.   

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Passing downs and big play ability goes to Ebron.

Blocking, workhorse mentality and intangibles goes to Doyle. "But has good hands also"

 

Doyle played well under Pagano which was impressive on its own so the edge

goes to Doyle. If Ebron cleans up his easy/catchable drops then I will have

to reevaluate my choice, but they are totally 2 different types of tight ends.

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17 hours ago, bestQBever said:

For an entire game give me Ebron. For a single possesion with the game on the line and you need a first down, give me Doyle.

 

This

 

If you want a guy who's going to put up stats, you want Ebron.  But if you want a guy who's going to make that one crucial catch, you want Doyle.  

 

Now if we are looking at who we are going to keep it will be interesting.  Ebron is going to cost more because of stats and draft status (which they have shown affects contracts in the future).  But at the same time he's younger and less injury prone than Doyle.  

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I think they are different. They are both important to this team. I think we resign both as long as Doyle comes back healthy.

 

Ebrons leadership is hard to replace.

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Ebron

Pros - Age (26), speed (4.6), health, burst, production

 

Cons - drops

 

Doyle

Pros - was not drafted a Colt, but has spent 5 of 6 years here, not a great blocker, but better than Ebron.

 

Cons - health, age (29), lack of production due to health, speed (4.91), drops (in 2017 had 5)

 

Hands down Ebron all day, every day. Doyle will need a monster year if he wants to close the gap, and I can't see that happening with the addition of Funchess (TE production will probably decrease overall).

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think they are different. They are both important to this team. I think we resign both as long as Doyle comes back healthy.

 

Ebrons leadership is hard to replace.

 

Last year, we spent the most on TE of any team (although we got a break in "official" spend due to Doyle going on IR).

 

I just don't see them signing both to high dollar contracts long term. If Doyle is cheap, would love to have him back, but we can get a youngster in the draft (middle rounds) on a cheap rookie contract to be Ebron's understudy plus be the blocking/run-downs TE.

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4 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

Last year, we spent the most on TE of any team (although we got a break in "official" spend due to Doyle going on IR).

 

I just don't see them signing both to high dollar contracts long term. If Doyle is cheap, would love to have him back, but we can get a youngster in the draft (middle rounds) on a cheap rookie contract to be Ebron's understudy plus be the blocking/run-downs TE.

Doyle is going to be 30. I dont think he is going to require more then a two year deal. My guess he will take a little bit of a discount since he is a hometown guy. I doubt at this time in his career he is wanting to switch teams. It’s all going to end up how he plays after this injury.

 

Ebron loves it here. He might get a big deal but I think he will want to stay here. 

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13 hours ago, JPFolks said:

If Ebron scores over 10 TD's this year he'll get a way bigger offer than we'll be willing to pay I would think.  (I sure don't want to chase a giant contract offer by an *ic team or one that just wants to screw us while getting a red zone target).  I doubt Doyle gets another contract if he has any health issues going forward.  If he did it would be very low end.  I could see not having either soon enough which is why I was so pro-draft a quality dual threat TE prospect in the round appropriate to their value.  Either we didn't pass one or they just weren't interested.  But without a young talent on board, we'll be disadvantaged in any negotiation to resign Ebron.  Perhaps one of the other guys will step up big, but I don't see it beyond our top two guys.  Doyle kind of came out of nowhere, so perhaps it will happen again.  

 

My preference is Doyle.  Reliable, chemistry, dual threat (blocking/catching).  I don't care about his athleticism as long as he can get open when needed and he has been able to do that.  He's getting older, but like QB, TE's are playing older and older.  So perhaps he's got some life left as long as his health holds up.  

I don't understand the mindset behind the bolded.  A GM tries to build a team.  He takes a chance on an under performing young guy who comes in and (using your assumed 2019 TD numbers) and scores 23 TDs in two years.  Why would a team NOT pay that guy?  Especially a team that has the most or close to the most cap space available.

 

I just don't understand why you would want to not pay AND get nothing in return for a young, explosive player that has not only done exactly what you signed him to do but has exceeded those expectations.

 

He's a TE, it's not like he is going to ask for nor expect QB money or edge rusher money.  Graham and Kelce are the two highest paid TEs in the league right now at about 10 mil per year.  That does not seem unreasonable for a 27 year TE who scored 20+ TDs in the last two years (assuming, ofcourse, he has a similar season to 2018)

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I just want to say, I have no idea what happened to my post above nor can I edit it.  Sorry for the extra long section.

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good red zone receivers are kind of rare, and you dont need to be versatile if your niche is catching TDS

 

i do think we might bring one back and let one go next year, we have a lot of TEs right now

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7 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Doyle is going to be 30. I dont think he is going to require more then a two year deal. My guess he will take a little bit of a discount since he is a hometown guy. I doubt at this time in his career he is wanting to switch teams. It’s all going to end up how he plays after this injury.

 

Ebron loves it here. He might get a big deal but I think he will want to stay here. 

As a fan of IN Catholic HSs, and have family at Cathedral still, would love to see him retire here. I just know if I was him, I'd try to get one more big contract. TEs can be productive into their early and mid 30s. Heck isn't Antonio Gates still playing at 38 lol. 

 

Just not sure he'll take less, and I don't really want to pay top TE pay to two guys.

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28 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

As a fan of IN Catholic HSs, and have family at Cathedral still, would love to see him retire here. I just know if I was him, I'd try to get one more big contract. TEs can be productive into their early and mid 30s. Heck isn't Antonio Gates still playing at 38 lol. 

 

Just not sure he'll take less, and I don't really want to pay top TE pay to two guys.

I don’t see Doyle seeking a huge contract or will his performance demand it. I don’t see any team at his age giving him a huge contract. Ebron will demand more most likely but it isn’t going to be anything more then Kelce. Like said above he isn’t a QB Or a pass rusher. He will probably get something in the range of 10m a year for 3 years.

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12 minutes ago, Introspect said:

Do not be shocked if Doyle is not on the final roster......

That will only happen if he can’t come back at full strength.

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I think Doyle is the better tight end. It’s hard To find a more complete Package than him. Ebron is a great receiver and a great weapon but there are a lot of things Doyle does that he can’t.

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31 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t see Doyle seeking a huge contract or will his performance demand it. I don’t see any team at his age giving him a huge contract. Ebron will demand more most likely but it isn’t going to be anything more then Kelce. Like said above he isn’t a QB Or a pass rusher. He will probably get something in the range of 10m a year for 3 years.

i can see him getting a larger, longer, contract with some other team. 

nothing huge or long term, i just think he'll do better elsewhere. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

i can see him getting a larger, longer, contract with some other team. 

nothing huge or long term, i just think he'll do better elsewhere. 

 

 

Doyle or Ebron? Ebron is going to stay. He loves it here. AS long as the colts want him back and they offer market value he is not going anywhere. He knows how good he has it. He even mentioned how much his wife loves it here also.

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The one who gets the edge, can change play to play.  You can use either one or both depending on the situation, and which play you run.  Both are talented at what they do, and don't do the same things.  Kind of like comparing the Sam and Will LB's, same position, but not exactly.  

 

How about this:

Ebron is the Carl-TE (catch)

Doyle is the Bob-TE (block)

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On 5/15/2019 at 4:13 PM, Shadow_Creek said:

Let me first start off by saying i like both TE's and i think they both contribute gracefully in there own awesome ways. However if i were to give an edge to the better player i would go with Ebron due to his explosiveness after the catch you just cant beat that.

 

 I don't see Ebron as an explosive after the catch guy. Andrew hits him in crossing patterns and he is usually caught fairly quickly.
 Doyle is a complete player and affects the game more, that is why Ebron is on the bench A LOT.
 Ebron, as a strictly receiver type, can be more easily replaced by the kind of receivers Ballard wants to build his offense with. If he remains healthy, Funchess will take away half of Ebrons TD's, and the rest of our pass catching core will get theirs too.
 And we should expect our ground game to be more consistent over the full season. 
 Ebron carried the load last season, and yes seems capable of repeating that, but i don't think Andrew will feel compelled to look for him as much.
 Injuries will affect us somewhere along the line, but we should have considerably better options when it happens.

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17 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't understand the mindset behind the bolded.  A GM tries to build a team.  He takes a chance on an under performing young guy who comes in and (using your assumed 2019 TD numbers) and scores 23 TDs in two years.  Why would a team NOT pay that guy?  Especially a team that has the most or close to the most cap space available.

 

I just don't understand why you would want to not pay AND get nothing in return for a young, explosive player that has not only done exactly what you signed him to do but has exceeded those expectations.

 

He's a TE, it's not like he is going to ask for nor expect QB money or edge rusher money.  Graham and Kelce are the two highest paid TEs in the league right now at about 10 mil per year.  That does not seem unreasonable for a 27 year TE who scored 20+ TDs in the last two years (assuming, ofcourse, he has a similar season to 2018)

It's not based on my opinion pro or con.  I just can't see us resigning someone who would command top tier TE pay (perhaps more than any current TE in football if he has 23+ TD's in 2 years).  Imagine when any of the top TE's are available what they would command? I'd bet that someone with money to burn would pay up for Ebron's production.  Now maybe he'd give us a hometown discount, but why should he? So the better he plays, the harder it will be for us to resign him and I just don't see them breaking the bank.  Maybe they will. 

 

We are all speculating about anything we think about the future from guessing a # of wins or who we might draft or who we will pay top dollar to resign when it comes time.  My point was if we had a drafted a solid young TE, it would give us a better position to negotiate when contract times comes just as it would at any position.  If we lose both TEs (perhaps because Doyle is too old and unhealthy and Ebron is getting offers beyond what we would want to pay) we're screwed, so it might force us to downgrade or pay up more than we would want.   

 

Is his production because of his unique talent, or is it just a case of a healthy Luck combined with the fact that he was about our only valid Red Zone target last year?  Teams offer top dollars to big TD producers, heck look at what we paid Funchess just to kick his tires for a year and he didn't do much and had catch trouble.  I could imagine Ebron costing a lot more in that scenario Jimmy Graham is bringing in 10 million a year, and with a second 10+ TD year, Ebron is already superior to his production which is only 20 total TD's in 4 years.  Do you think Ballard would make him the highest paid TE in the league? I don't but he might deserve the money.  If he'll resign on the cheap (by comparison), of course we'll resign him, but that wasn't the point I was making. 

 

I am not sure how to explain it more than this.  You disagree. Life goes on.  

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7 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

It's not based on my opinion pro or con.  I just can't see us resigning someone who would command top tier TE pay (perhaps more than any current TE in football if he has 23+ TD's in 2 years).  Imagine when any of the top TE's are available what they would command? I'd bet that someone with money to burn would pay up for Ebron's production.  Now maybe he'd give us a hometown discount, but why should he? So the better he plays, the harder it will be for us to resign him and I just don't see them breaking the bank.  Maybe they will. 

 

We are all speculating about anything we think about the future from guessing a # of wins or who we might draft or who we will pay top dollar to resign when it comes time.  My point was if we had a drafted a solid young TE, it would give us a better position to negotiate when contract times comes just as it would at any position.  If we lose both TEs (perhaps because Doyle is too old and unhealthy and Ebron is getting offers beyond what we would want to pay) we're screwed, so it might force us to downgrade or pay up more than we would want.   

 

Is his production because of his unique talent, or is it just a case of a healthy Luck combined with the fact that he was about our only valid Red Zone target last year?  Teams offer top dollars to big TD producers, heck look at what we paid Funchess just to kick his tires for a year and he didn't do much and had catch trouble.  I could imagine Ebron costing a lot more in that scenario Jimmy Graham is bringing in 10 million a year, and with a second 10+ TD year, Ebron is already superior to his production which is only 20 total TD's in 4 years.  Do you think Ballard would make him the highest paid TE in the league? I don't but he might deserve the money.  If he'll resign on the cheap (by comparison), of course we'll resign him, but that wasn't the point I was making. 

 

I am not sure how to explain it more than this.  You disagree. Life goes on.  

Yes, it's all speculation.  And this post and your first seem different.  In the first post you were saying that you (and i know you mean you, if you ran the team) would not pay him.  This post you are more saying you don't think Ballard will pay him.  I can understand of you don't think Ballard would pay, but I do disagree to a point with that, because so far we, as fans, have not seen what Ballard will do with an elite player that is one of his finds through the draft or FA, so he may very well make him the highest paid TE in the league if he feels that is warranted.

 

I don't think I ever indicated that life should stop because I disagree, so I don't really understand that comment.  Again I just don't understand the mindset of wanting a player to play worse so they are easier to sign, or the inverse not wanting to pay a player top money if they perform at a top level.

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Reich loves TE in his system. Sometimes will even use 3 at one time. Luck loves TE. This is why we didn’t spend like crazy in FA. We are saving the money to sign guys like EE.  Ballard has said over and over that he will reward his stars. I don’t know why people don’t believe him.

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