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i know its not over yet, but i figure most of us dont follow day three guys well enough to grade them  anyway 

 

Nelson- A

Leonard- B

Smith- B

Turay-C

Lewis-D   

 

i like nelson, im fine with leonard and smith, while lewis and turay feel like straight up reaches to me 

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14 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i know its not over yet, but i figure most of us dont follow day three guys well enough to grade them  anyway 

 

Nelson- A

Leonard- B

Smith- B

 Turay-C

Lewis-D   

 

i like nelson, im fine with leonard and smith, while lewis and turay feel like straight up reaches to me 

I would grade Nelson an A+ as he is the best guard prospect ever...

 

Smith an A-, considering he is an all-american and pairs nicely with Nelson to bolster this god-awful O-line.  


Leonard is probably a good grade at B. He fits well for the defense, but I will reserve judgement until training camp when we hear what kind of a player he is going to be.

 

Turay is fair at a C, but I think he has a very high ceiling and according to Ballard will be part of this rotational waves he keeps referring to. So we will know this season what we are getting. I think it will be similar to Basham, maybe coming on late in the season. If Basham turns into a stud this year, we might have gotten a steal in Turay. Some seem to think so.

Lewis is the only one I disagree with. He might be a reach, but he cannot be graded a D as he will have an impact on this defense from the get-go. He will be the best run-stopping defensive end we have on the roster, and I fully expect some good productivity from him this season... and his versatility with being able to slide inside is what Ballard likes and sees in him.

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i rated the d line guys low because i think they were third rounders, and we already have several late round d line types that are struggling to make an impact. i think they may fall into that category too.  

 

hopefully someone pans out from that group 

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1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

i know its not over yet, but i figure most of us dont follow day three guys well enough to grade them  anyway 

 

Nelson- A

Leonard- B

Smith- B

Turay-C

Lewis-D   

 

i like nelson, im fine with leonard and smith, while lewis and turay feel like straight up reaches to me 

SAME

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Nelson A : top 3 player in the draft at position of need. WIth Chubb gone, it was a no brainer

Leonard B+ : he was my highest ranked LB left on the board. I really like this pick, only reason it's not another A is because I had top 10 players still available

Smith B- : not my highest ranked lineman on the board, but I can see the fit with the reported new focus on zone blocking

Turay B+ : I like this pick... it's high potential pick, hopefully we develop this guy because he has real good athleticism and some flashes of good hand usage. 

Lewis C : This is the one I like the least, similar to last year's Basham pick, I don't think Lewis does anything exceptionally well. Seems a bit meh to me... 

Hines A- :  I like this pick. Big playmaker potential in Hines and even with a slighter frame he still runs between the tackles probably better than Mack. He can be lined up anywhere on the line of scrimmage and be used as a mismatch weapon with speed and good hands.

Fountain A- : another good pick of a receiver with good hands and good athleticism and size. Needs to develop better route running but I expect him to play this year some. 

Wilkins ? - haven't watched him, no opinion on him, 

Cain A- : good value with another vertical athlete with size. Was being considered a high end prospect before this year, but Clemson's new freshman QB didn't seem to have great chemistry with him and his production suffered. IMO this is a good pick

Adams ? : haven't watched him

Franklin ? : haven't watched him.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Overall grade - about B+

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Reading what Ballard had said about the picks made last night, in regards to the defensive line, he emphasized the rotation that they are looking to implement and seemed to acknowledge that while there really isn't a stud DE, he believes the guys they took each bring something to the rotation they plan to use. Nelson and Smith bring nastiness and physicality to the OL. And Leonard is a fast, sideline to sideline defender. Leonard was intending to go to Clemson, but he didn't have enough test scores in before the signing period ended so he went to South Carolina State. He had division 1 talent. All in all, Ballard has stuck to his plan. I don't like to grade a draft until I see how it pans out but I do kind of give it a "Love, Like, Dislike or Hate" opinion. Thus far, I go with "Like". I do feel a bit perplexed by some of the Turay and Lewis pick but in hearing what Ballard had to say, I can kind of see why they went with those picks. That said, I would like to see a CB and WR taken today.

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Nelson- A+ 2nd best player in the draft at 6 and a generational G to protect Luck

Leonard- A- Very good pick. Top LB on the Board and all purpose guy that can tackle and do everything well.

Smith- B Ballard got burned a bit here when Hernandez was taken by the Giants. Still got a solid, starting G

Turay- C High Ceiling guy with a lot of potential. A reach in my eyes, but has the potential to be special.

Lewis- B Can play inside and is a very good pick at the end of the 2nd. Great rotational piece against the run.

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5 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i rated the d line guys low because i think they were third rounders, and we already have several late round d line types that are struggling to make an impact. i think they may fall into that category too.  

 

hopefully someone pans out from that group 

I will say that we have a more simple scheme now with the 4-3.  As many guys have said our d line will be able to see ball and get ball.  Not so much other stuff.  Let's hold judgment until they play in this D.

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Nelson - A+

Leonard - A

Smith - B+

Turay - B-

Lewis - D+ (only because we took Turay. I don't think he's a bad player)

Hines - B+

Fountain - UG (Haven't scouted him)

Wilkins - C 

Cain - A (At #185, big steal)

Adams - B

Franklin - B

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Nelson C+ ( A as a player but the value is wrong)

Leonard B+ Best off ball LB left instant starter at Will

Smith B- Would be higher if we didn't already have Nelson, and I think we really missed Josh Jackson he's fit our zone D perfect 

Turray B high tisk high reward pick compared to Ngakwoe 

Lewis C My 2nd favourite DE from Ohio state but Hubbard was still there. Hopefully he can play our Raheem Brock role LE who can rush from inside 

Hynes B a nice receiving back and returner to tandem with Mack.

Fountain ? Read good things but no idea

Wilkins B Makes a good trio with Mack and Hynes as the power back.

No comment on the rest 

 

I know I'll catch flack for my Nelson grade but I don't think any G is worth the #6 and as much as he's called the best G ever read DeCastro's scouting report or Warmacks and they say basically the same thing and one went 24 and the other was mostly a bust.

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40 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

Lol... 

Anyone utilizing any type of objective criteria rubric? Or we just making these grades up?

however you want to arm chair GM it

 

study tape, or just read a profile and guess.   if you end up being right then you can gloat, if not then never bring it up again lol

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Especially for late rounders, there’s really no point in grading this early. 

 

Now let me proceed to give you my grades for each player selected haha 

 

Nelson - A

Will be a 10 year perennial pro bowler. I’m confident in that.

 

Leonard - B

I thought there were better guys available but the value is still good. He’s fast and could start. 

 

Smith - B

 Doubling down on guards I have no problem with. One of the SECs best. We now have talent and depth on the line.

 

Turay - C+

I see the upside, but I thought he could have been had later. Still he’s got the goods. Just needs to be coached up (Im just hesitant to take a project this early).

 

Lewis - B+

Love me some OSU defenders. Talented and builds the depth on the Dline. Is a scheme fit too.

 

Hines - B 

Need weapons on offense and we got the fastest guy in the whole draft. I’m down.

 

Fountain - B

Big bodied wide receiver. Get someone who can catch in the red zone.

 

Wilkins - C

Tbh no clue why we took another back. Yes I understand we want a RBBC, but we got Mack, Hines, Turbin and Jones. Sure not great but with Luck at QB, it’s not like we need a bunch of superstars back there. I woulda preferred a secondary player.

 

Cain - A

Love the value AND the player. Can compete and produce right away I think. I honestly wouldn’t have minded him as early as the third.

 

Dont know anything about the linebackers we drafted late so I won’t grade em.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Nelson- A+ 2nd best player in the draft at 6 and a generational G to protect Luck

Leonard- A- Very good pick. Top LB on the Board and all purpose guy that can tackle and do everything well.

Smith- B Ballard got burned a bit here when Hernandez was taken by the Giants. Still got a solid, starting G

Turay- C High Ceiling guy with a lot of potential. A reach in my eyes, but has the potential to be special.

Lewis- B Can play inside and is a very good pick at the end of the 2nd. Great rotational piece against the run.

 

I agree with everything except I would flop the Turay and Lewis grades, IMO. I also believe Ballard could have gone with a quality CB over Smith at that juncture once Hernandez was taken. If Smith steps up and plays RT, I might change my mind with time but once we got Nelson, I did not think our guards were as bad as they are being made out to be to justify 2 picks at guard.

 

A lot of our OL issues were a result of play calling, QB holding the ball long, and coaching, so I never believed our OL was as bad as it was made out to be. I am not a Grigson defender but when you keep getting decent groceries for the OL time and time again to see the QB holding the ball more often (a lot of times due to WRs not separating or plays called), it almost felt like the OL was the easy guinea pig. Just my two cents there.

 

Turay, I have more Robert Mathis vibes than Tyquan Lewis, who reminds me more of Raheem Brock, decent vs the run but wouldn't offer that much in pass rush. I'd have preferred Tyquan's teammate Sam Hubbard there.

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Rd 1/Pick 6 - Quenton Nelson, G, Notre Dame - The best player in the draft, IMO, although playing at lesser valued position.  Will continue being a dominant pro bowler long after Andrew Luck is gone.  "My Guys" Member.  Instant Starter.  Grade A+

Rd 2/Pick 36 - Derius Leonard, OLB, South Carolina St - Was going to go to Clemson.  Sideline to sideline.  Dominated in the MEAC.  How will he handle NFL level?  Projected Starter.  Grade B

Rd 2/Pick 37 - Braden Smith, G, Auburn - Should have been Hernandez (thanks, Giants).  Solid road grader at guard.  Projected Starter.  Grade B

Rd 2/Pick 52 - Kemoko Turay, EDGE, Rutgers - Exciting young player that has high upside, but is still a project.  "My Guys" Member, but in rounds 4 or 5. Project.  Grade C

Rd 2/Pick 64 - Tyquan Lewis, DE, Ohio St - Solid, do-everything leader on the Buckeyes d-line, but doesn't have the "one thing" that sets him apart.  Rotational Backup.  Grade C-

Rd 4/Pick 104 - Nyhelm Hines, RB, NC State - Fasted guy in the draft at 4.38.  Only 5'8".  Is he going to return kicks?  Specialist?  Backup?  Grade C+

Rd 5/Pick 159 - Daurice Fountain, WR, Northern Iowa - Bigger bodied receiver from small school with good hops.  May get a good share of Moncrief's end zone jump balls.  Grade C+

Rd 5/Pick 169 - Jordan Wilkins, RB, Ole Miss - Big back for short yardage.  Averaged only 1.7 yards after contact.  Grade C-

Rd 6/Pick 185 - Deon Cain, WR, Clemson - Exciting with 6-2 size and 4.43 40 time.  Not yet the sum of his parts, but a great value pick for this round.  Grade B-

Rd 7/Pick 221 - Matthew Adams, LB, Houston - Who?

Rd 7/Pick 235 - Zaire Franklin, LB, Syracuse - Who?  We traded Hank Anderson for this?

 

Worthy of Praise - If we can't keep Andrew Luck upright now, after all the offensive line picks over the last three years, then we don't deserve to have him.  We may have more starters than we have spaces on the line!  Definitely upgraded team speed on both defense and offense.

Tell Me Why - Picked Smith when Josh Jackson was available.  Picked Turay when DJ Chark was available.  Picked Lewis when his teammate, Hubbard, was available.  Turay was the only pick at the much needed EDGE position.

Player Most Likely to be Zach Banner - Tyquan Lewis

 

The Bottom Line - For somebody who wanted to build the team through the abundance of this draft, Ballard needed to hit on every one of his 1st and 2nd round picks.  Not sure that he did.  The offensive line is fixed (when have we heard that before?), and we're building the front 7 for the new defense.  But CB wasn't addressed at all.  And although we addressed WR, I don't think we have the true bookend to Hilton just yet.  One thing is certain, Ballard definitely likes his small school players.  I don't dislike this draft.  But I'll feel a lot better when/if the players show that they have the stuff to compete.

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1) Quenton Nelson.  A-.  The only negative thing to say about it is that I wanted Roquon.  However, as we were walking to the podium, I was thinking, "The only name other than Roquon that won't result in a string of expletives is Quenton Nelson."  

2) Darius Leonard.  A. I felt that if we didn't get Roquon in Round 1, the only two guys that can make a difference in our new system were Leonard and Fred Warner.  I'd moved Leonard up occasionally to our #49 recently, but I think that Ballard did what he had to do to get him.  Kudos to Ballard for taking him "too early".

2) Braden Smith.  B.  Graded down a little because of the two special players I felt were left there - Joshua Johnson and Harold Landry.  But I appreciate the OL depth he's bringing in, especially since we usually end up on Plan G on the OL by the end of each year.

2) Kemoko Turay. B.  My plan would have been to blow off the DE position if we missed out on Chubb, since I didn't like the value of the DEs for the rest of the draft.  I do like the sound of Turay's athleticism as I read about it.  Good job trading back for a player not graded as highly by others.  Not a bad pick.

2) Tyquan Lewis.  C-.  I don't like the value, though I like the player.  He was taken at least a round too early, and moving up three spots wasn't worth doing.  He fits the scheme as a DT.

4) Nyheim Hines.  B.  I like this pick more after hearing that he will be a slot receiver/RB.  Not my favorite RB, but he can be a good "offensive weapon".

5) Daurice Fountain.  A+.  He and Leonard were two of my guys leading into the draft.  I often had this guy slotted a round earlier.

5) Jordan Wilkins.  A.  Really good value here.  This is the kind of RB I was hoping for later in the draft.

6) Deon Cain.  A.   I never knew what to think of this guy, but in Round 6, you can't argue with the value.  

7) Matthew Adams.  B.  The one thing I was sure of coming into the draft was that we would take more LBs than any other positions.  However, we got to the 7th and all the ones I liked were gone.  So Ballard found two that I'd never heard of (impressive given how much time I waste at this) that fit our system.

7) Zaire Franklin.  B.  See Matthew Adam's write-up.

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16 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

Lol... 

Anyone utilizing any type of objective criteria rubric? Or we just making these grades up?

 

I use my own criteria, it's called "my opinion about the draft picks gets an A+, if you disagree with me, you get an F."

 

And yes, I do have a perfect 4.0 GPA.

 

:neener:

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Nelson: A       Can only give an A+ if someone also dropped.  What could be more important than getting the best lineman in the draft and a top-3 overall player to protect Luck?  This pick was a relief.

 

Leonard: B+    While he might have gone later, there was a big drop-off for guys like him.  Not only does he fit the scheme well, but he also fills a huge need.  His talent and production is proven.

 

Smith:  B         We won't know until the shuffling begins what Indy plans to do with Smith or other players on the O-line.  Given that he's at worst a 3rd rounder, it's understandable to pick him up after the run on guards.  There was a cliff-drop of G talent after him and he has the attitude sought after for a culture change in Indy.  He does have the size, length, and experience to play tackle (versatility).  Sold.

 

Turay & Lewis:  D/Inc      Just because they fit the attitude, athleticism and scheme in Indy doesn't mean you have to burn early picks on them, but considering team's boards seemed to be all over the place (Davenport, Terrell Edmunds, etc) I can understand grabbing them earlier.  That being said, why not get early returns using those picks on more known quantities and using the late picks on upside talent?  Late picks are there to take the Michael Bennetts and Antonio Calloways of the world who are worth a flyer if they jump off.  Considering the guys who were still on the board, we may well have flushed 2 second rounders down the drain.  These guys were likely 6th rounders to UDFAs on most boards.  From a logical strategy standpoint, this makes no sense.  I hope they prove me wrong.

 

 

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Quenton Nelson (A+) Easy grade. The best overall offensive lineman in the draft and a top 5 player coming out of college into the NFL. Mean, rugged, tough, physical, starts day 1. 

 

 

Darius Leonard (A) Went to a small D2 school but that doesn't matter. You know who else went to a small school? Robert Mathis. Remember him? Had a Hall Of Fame career. Leonard can cover on the weak side and TE's. Had over 300+ tackles in his career at SCST. Needs to add some more weight but he's raw. 

 

 

Braden Smith (B+) I thought for sure Ballard was going to go with Josh Jackson right here but I'm not complaining. We need to protect 12 at all costs. Now we have 2 solid guards to go on our offensive line. Nelson and Smith are gonna bring something to our offensive line that hasn't been seen in a long time. Another solid pick.

 

Kemoko Turay (B+) Another solid pick. Turay has upside with a chance to be a solid pass rusher. Needs to work on his bending coming off the Edge though. 

 

 

Tyquan Lewis (C) Good pick. I see him more of a DT in a 4-3 defense. 

 

 

Nyheim Hines (A) Another solid pick by King Ballard. Was the fastest RB at the Combine and reminds me a lot of Dion Lewis. Frank is building a 3 headed RB monster on this team. He also can return kickoffs as well. 

 

Daurice Fountain (A+) Another solid pick. We needed to address the WR and Ballard did just that in that draft. This kid reminds me of Martavis Bryant but without all the drama. He will compete with Cain for that number 2 WR job.

 

Jordan Wilkins (B+) Chris Ballard is great at evaluating talent. A Matt Forte type RB who has a chance to be our starter in the future. Needs to work on his pass protection but the size and talent is there. 

 

Deon Cain (A+) Excellent pick. Another weapon for 12 to throw to. A deep threat WR who was a steal in the 6th round. I didn't think he was gonna fall to the 6th. 

 

Matthew Adams (C+)  A hard hitting LB who fits our scheme very well. 

 

Zaire Franklin (C-) I know we need to rebuild our LB core but this was a head scratcher. Could've taken a cornerback here. Would've loved Jordan Thomas out of Oklahoma. 

 

 

 

 

Overall a solid draft from Chris Ballard and his team. 

 

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Can anyone tell me which DL draft picks of ours had the most and least experience with 3 point stances? Do you think that will matter in our new defense?

Turay was 2 point stance rusher, Lewis was 3 point stance rusher. It matters to some degree, we'll see how it translates for Turay

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I think it's tough to grade because we may not all understand scheme fits, traits the scouts and front office is looking for, etc.  Remember, these guys have been studying these guys for months, maybe even years.  We are just going by some highlights we watched on Youtube.

 

With that said, and with what some "experts" predicted, some of the stranger picks to me were Leonard at our first pick in the 2nd when they said speed was the theme and he run a 4.7 40, the two DE's we picked, and Wilkins in the 5th after we took Himes in the 4th.  Didn't understand it, but I'm sure the front office/scout team has their reasons.

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11 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

I think it's tough to grade because we may not all understand scheme fits, traits the scouts and front office is looking for, etc.  Remember, these guys have been studying these guys for months, maybe even years.  We are just going by some highlights we watched on Youtube.

 

With that said, and with what some "experts" predicted, some of the stranger picks to me were Leonard at our first pick in the 2nd when they said speed was the theme and he run a 4.7 40, the two DE's we picked, and Wilkins in the 5th after we took Himes in the 4th.  Didn't understand it, but I'm sure the front office/scout team has their reasons.

 

A few answers:

1) Leonard technically ran a 4.70, but only after pulling up lame with a quad injury.  I think he was on pace for something much better,  The injury caused him to miss the rest of the combine, and it probably affected his Pro Day.

2) Tyquan Lewis should be thought of as a DT in the new system, as should FA Denico Autry.

3)  According to some of the post-draft interviews, Hines is going to be a bit of an “offensive weapon”, playing slot receiver a bit.  I chose to list him in the slot on my depth chart.

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