Are we really that much worse

[12isthenew18]

Seriously is this roster that much worse or better personnel wise than in 2013 and 2014. I'd argue we might somehow actually have a better roster. I see everyone say our roster is a burning bush which we need drastic improvements but I'd argue we could still with Luck entering his prime is currently making us a better team than in 2014

[ColtsBTM12]

Our roster might be a little better now than it was back then, but there are still plenty of holes. We need to get better/younger in every position outside of QB and WR/TE.

[Superman]

I think the 2015 roster was better than 2014 and 2013. But I think several players underperformed or regressed, and the coaching didn't help. Some players played better -- Freeman and Jackson, for instance. 

 

The roster still needs a lot of work, though. Pass rush, for starters, is in sore shape. 

[csmopar]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

I think the 2015 roster was better than 2014 and 2013. But I think several players underperformed or regressed, and the coaching didn't help. Some players played better -- Freeman and Jackson, for instance. 

 

The roster still needs a lot of work, though. Pass rush, for starters, is in sore shape. 

 

 

I agree with this as well.

 

I will also add that the DL looked good, just needs some quality linebacker support and I think we have the potential to do that with who we've brought in as coaches. 

 

Honestly, I was looking at some of the games again, there were several where our D was humming good in the first half, but our Offense wasn't doing crap at all. By the 2nd half, our D was gassed and team after team pulled away from us.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

Honestly, I was looking at some of the games again, there were several where our D was humming good in the first half, but our Offense wasn't doing crap at all. By the 2nd half, our D was gassed and team after team pulled away from us.

 

It happened week after week. Even in the worst defensive games, like Pittsburgh, the defense made some plays at the beginning of the game, and the offense couldn't bring anything home. I think that game could have been a lot different if Hasselbeck hadn't been so off.

[PeterBowman]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It happened week after week. Even in the worst defensive games, like Pittsburgh, the defense made some plays at the beginning of the game, and the offense couldn't bring anything home. I think that game could have been a lot different if Hasselbeck hadn't been so off.

this right here....after a while the Colts offense was the Colts defenses worst enemy

[Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes]

Not only is the roster worse it is now much older.  The future with Luck is in great jeopardy if Grigson continues to make the same dumb, uninformed, expensive FA signings and does not correctly address the real needs of the team in the draft.  I am not optimistic he can or will change his approach. 

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

Not only is the roster worse it is now much older.  The future with Luck is in great jeopardy if Grigson continues to make the same dumb, uninformed, expensive FA signings and does not correctly address the real needs of the team in the draft.  I am not optimistic he can or will change his approach. 

 

nope...to pretty much all of that, especially this "now much older" thing which is getting to the point of being comically overblown.  

[C0lts088]

I think people will be impressed by what good coaching can do. We'll see what this roster is made from this upcoming season 

[Live and let live]

17 hours ago, 12isthenew18 said:

Seriously is this roster that much worse or better personnel wise than in 2013 and 2014. I'd argue we might somehow actually have a better roster. I see everyone say our roster is a burning bush which we need drastic improvements but I'd argue we could still with Luck entering his prime is currently making us a better team than in 2014

The Colts played way over their heads in those years. The talent may not be that much worse, it was never that good to start with. The GM has done a lousy job in my opinion. It boggles the mind that he still has a job.

[Dustin]

2013 roster was peak and very well could have made a Super Bowl if not for injuries to Reggie, Ballard, and Bradshaw. 

[Dustin]

17 hours ago, Superman said:

I think the 2015 roster was better than 2014 and 2013. But I think several players underperformed or regressed, and the coaching didn't help. Some players played better -- Freeman and Jackson, for instance. 

 

The roster still needs a lot of work, though. Pass rush, for starters, is in sore shape. 

 

The 2015 roster is better in theory, but 2013 was when the team was at it's best. The entire team played as a unit. It's a shame that Trent Richardson held them back from their true potential as an offense. 

[Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

nope...to pretty much all of that, especially this "now much older" thing which is getting to the point of being comically overblown.  

OK Jason, what is either inaccurate or overblown?  We are the OLDEST team in the league, so much for building a franchise, and for every one decent FA or draft signings by Grigson, there are four or five really bad ones. 

[Superman]

25 minutes ago, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

We are the OLDEST team in the league

 

I'm not sure that's true, but even if it is, so what?

[weslo1812]

34 minutes ago, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

OK Jason, what is either inaccurate or overblown?  We are the OLDEST team in the league, so much for building a franchise, and for every one decent FA or draft signings by Grigson, there are four or five really bad ones. 

So Hilton, Mewhort, Anderson, Parry, Moncrief, Fleener don't count for nothing? Also Look at what Redding did for us in his years here, Look at Freeman, DQwell, Langford, Lowery played decent this season, Adams has been a pro Bowler with the Colts, Gore was solid when he had a hole. He aquired Vontae. I dont think any of that reaks of utter failure like you're trying to imply. Has Grigson and the staff botched and miss alot too? Definitely!!! I don't by any means myself think they've done a great job, but it's definitely not been horrible or even bad. I would say they have been around the line of avg.

[coltsva]

Lots of pieces will need to be replaced on defense this year or next. 

 

Our old guys on D, Mathis, Adams, Jackson, Freeman (if re-signed) and Walden have one more year, IMO. Lowery may not be back, or if he is, another one year contract. 

 

Colts need to draft heavy on D again this year. This past year was a good start with Anderson, Parry and Geathers. 

 

Not as worried about the o-line as most. Better coaching will do wonders for that group, as it did for the group from the 2000's.

 

Castanzo - 1st round

Mewhort - 2nd round

Holmes - 4th round

Thornton - 3rd round

Good - 7th round 

 

Tarik Glenn - 1st round 

Ryan Lilja - undrafted

Jeff Saturday - undrafted

Jake Scott - 5th round

Ryan Diem -  4th round

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GoColts8818]

8 hours ago, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

OK Jason, what is either inaccurate or overblown?  We are the OLDEST team in the league, so much for building a franchise, and for every one decent FA or draft signings by Grigson, there are four or five really bad ones. 

That is greatly skewed by having the two oldest players in the league, one is our kicker who has missed three field goals in two years and the other is the backup QB who nearly saved the Colts bacon this season.  

 

The Colts are very young at the skill poistions on offense outside of Frank Gore (I am not counting Johnson because I don't expect him to be back).  The line is even young although it needs upgrades.

 

defensively they are starting to get younger.  Grigson focused on fixing the line last year and found two keepers in Parry and Anderson in the draft. Langford is 30 but easily has a couple good years left.  They have Davis as a guy they build around in the back 8.  Hopefully Smith can get healthy and take the number two corner spot,. Geather showed promise for a rookie and while older Adams is playing at a proviso level but that means you do need to start looking for his replacement.  Linebackers is the trouble spot.  Their one good young linebacker is a free agent in Freeman.  Mathis and Jackson can probably give you another year maybe two but that's it and there isn't much else at linebacker other than Walden and Newsome.  Walden is a solid player but nothing special.  Newsome showed promise as a rookie but did nothing all season.  Hopefully the new coaches can get something out of him.  

 

No doubt Grigson has made mistakes.  I don't think anyone would argue with you there, however, we are stuck with him.  Irsay has committed to him so we might as well hope he starts to figure it out.  Also, he's going to have to change the way he's done things because he's not going to have the cap space like he's had in the past.

 

Also he's not the bum some make him out to be.  He is the GM who took over a 2-14 team in cap heck and built a team that went to the playoffs three straight years and has been to the AFCCG.  He did something right in there because that didn't just happen.   

[GoColts8818]

8 hours ago, weslo1812 said:

So Hilton, Mewhort, Anderson, Parry, Moncrief, Fleener don't count for nothing? Also Look at what Redding did for us in his years here, Look at Freeman, DQwell, Langford, Lowery played decent this season, Adams has been a pro Bowler with the Colts, Gore was solid when he had a hole. He aquired Vontae. I dont think any of that reaks of utter failure like you're trying to imply. Has Grigson and the staff botched and miss alot too? Definitely!!! I don't by any means myself think they've done a great job, but it's definitely not been horrible or even bad. I would say they have been around the line of avg.

Don't forget Hasselbeck, it's really scary to think where the Colts would have been this year without him.  

[RollerColt]

I agree with Dustin for 2013. That team was very exciting to watch at times. I would put our current roster just under that: the defense has improved in some areas and regressed in others. The offense... well it's hard to judge since the biggest piece to the puzzle was on the sidelines for most of the season... From a statistics standpoint, our offense was possibly the worst we've seen of this era... but that's injuries for ya!

[Jason_]

16 hours ago, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

OK Jason, what is either inaccurate or overblown?  We are the OLDEST team in the league, so much for building a franchise, and for every one decent FA or draft signings by Grigson, there are four or five really bad ones. 

 

See replies from other users..they've summed things up quite nicely.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

19 hours ago, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

Not only is the roster worse it is now much older.  The future with Luck is in great jeopardy if Grigson continues to make the same dumb, uninformed, expensive FA signings and does not correctly address the real needs of the team in the draft.  I am not optimistic he can or will change his approach. 

If you really want your doom and gloom message to stand out, you should try being a little more dramatic.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

15 hours ago, coltsva said:

Not as worried about the o-line as most. Better coaching will do wonders for that group, as it did for the group from the 2000's.

 

Castanzo - 1st round

Mewhort - 2nd round

Holmes - 4th round

Thornton - 3rd round

Good - 7th round 

 

Some more depth would be nice, but I could live with that starting lineup as is, aside from Holmes. If they can bring in a top flight center, whether it's via free agency or draft, Joe Philbin will have a decent pool of o-line talent to work with.

[aaron11]

18 hours ago, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

OK Jason, what is either inaccurate or overblown?  We are the OLDEST team in the league, so much for building a franchise, and for every one decent FA or draft signings by Grigson, there are four or five really bad ones. 

 

17 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not sure that's true, but even if it is, so what?

i checked recently, colts were actually the third oldest overall last season

 

the stat can be misleading though. for example the patriots in 2014 were among the youngest teams in theory, but the guys that got the snaps like brady instead of his much younger backup skew the numbers

 

i havent found anyone that has adjusted for snaps taken, but we might have been the oldest on the field considering how many snaps our vets took

[Superman]

31 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

i checked recently, colts were actually the third oldest overall last season

 

the stat can be misleading though. for example the patriots in 2014 were among the youngest teams in theory, but the guys that got the snaps like brady instead of his much younger backup skew the numbers

 

i havent found anyone that has adjusted for snaps taken, but we might have been the oldest on the field considering how many snaps our vets took

 

Still leaves the "so what?" 

[pgt_rob]

I think it comes down to the players being focused. Some games it seemed like nobody gave a crap when we were down by a couple of scores. Whether that was coaching orientated or not being prepared for the game, who knows. We need another vocal leader on offense besides Andrew, we are missing the Reggie Wayne presence. Also injuries are a big part of the game, every team goes through it, some worse than others but the thing is that our depth sucks. When somebody is hurt, we fill the hole with bleh and hope it works.

[coltsva]

3 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Some more depth would be nice, but I could live with that starting lineup as is, aside from Holmes. If they can bring in a top flight center, whether it's via free agency or draft, Joe Philbin will have a decent pool of o-line talent to work with.

 I put in last years group for comparison, but fully expect 2 of C, RG, RT to be different. That would provide some decent depth, especially adding in Reitz.

[Defjamz26]

On February 1, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Superman said:

I think the 2015 roster was better than 2014 and 2013. But I think several players underperformed or regressed, and the coaching didn't help. Some players played better -- Freeman and Jackson, for instance. 

 

The roster still needs a lot of work, though. Pass rush, for starters, is in sore shape. 

Might arguably have been one of the top 5 worst pass rushing units in 2015. It's gotta get better.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Might arguably have been one of the top 5 worst pass rushing units in 2015. It's gotta get better.

 

Started the season out that way, but the pass rush drastically improved later in the season.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

Started the season out that way, but the pass rush drastically improved later in the season.

Yeah they ended hot. But just looking at the overall talent and the future is pretty bleak

 

An aging Mathis

A washed up and ineffective Trent Cole

Bjoern Werner

Jonathan Newsome

And Walden who is just an edge setter (and almost 30)

 

That list isn't even kind of sexy

[JCPatriot]

On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 11:03 PM, 12isthenew18 said:

Seriously is this roster that much worse or better personnel wise than in 2013 and 2014. I'd argue we might somehow actually have a better roster.

 

I don't think the roster is all that much worse.  I just don't think the roster was all that good to begin with.  The Colts pulled out a lot of games that they really didn't have any business winning in 2013 and 2014, and that caused people to build high expectations.  I don't really see that they improved much.  Lose your top-tier QB on top of that, and it is not a recipe for a good season.

[Tsarquise]

7 hours ago, JCPatriot said:

 

I don't think the roster is all that much worse.  I just don't think the roster was all that good to begin with.  The Colts pulled out a lot of games that they really didn't have any business winning in 2013 and 2014, and that caused people to build high expectations.  I don't really see that they improved much.  Lose your top-tier QB on top of that, and it is not a recipe for a good season.

How dobyoubwin games that you have no business winning? I mean I see if you're losing and you get back in the game due to a multitude of really bad red calls. But other than that, how? And what games were those?

[Jason_]

9 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yeah they ended hot. But just looking at the overall talent and the future is pretty bleak

 

An aging Mathis

A washed up and ineffective Trent Cole

Bjoern Werner

Jonathan Newsome

And Walden who is just an edge setter (and almost 30)

 

That list isn't even kind of sexy

 

That's true...however, late in the year we were getting a lot of pressure and some sacks from the interior guys (Kerr, McGill, Langford and even some from Winn and Parry), and it's harder to find interior pass rushers than it is to find edge rushers.  And there's a lot of youth with those interior guys so in that regard, we're setup very well, especially when you add Anderson back into the mix.

[SteelCityColt]

On 02/02/2016 at 5:22 PM, Superman said:

 

Still leaves the "so what?" 

 

People like to distill an evaluation of a team down into one number? It's like the "heaviest team in the league" kinda things. 

 

As you say so what? The the thing that matters most is talent level and depth of talent. 

[theanarchist]

On 2/1/2016 at 10:58 PM, Superman said:

I think the 2015 roster was better than 2014 and 2013. But I think several players underperformed or regressed, and the coaching didn't help. Some players played better -- Freeman and Jackson, for instance. 

 

The roster still needs a lot of work, though. Pass rush, for starters, is in sore shape. 

I have to disagree with that somewhat. I think the roster was much better with a healthy Robert Mathis who racked up 19.5 sacks in 2013. We still had Donald Brown, a healthy Ahmad Bradshaw, Reggie Wayne was still excellent, we still had Bethea at S. I just think overall the roster was better and the guys like Reggie and Mathis were still playing very well. I just think we've taken a step back overall.

 

As you point out the pass rush is a huge issue for this defense. That has to be addressed and I'm sure the new DC is going to want some input into that.

[lollygagger8]

I also think we are worse. 

 

 

[JColts72]

Our records may be worse then 8 and 8 this season. Is there anybody left after D cuts to bebesides Mathis?

[Shepman]

I am not sure how this roster is worse the only real difference makers gone are Reggie, Ballard and Bradshaw.

[NewColtsFan]

12 hours ago, JColts72 said:

Our records may be worse then 8 and 8 this season. Is there anybody left after D cuts to bebesides Mathis?

 

Well....   on defense,  Vonte Davis is a pretty good player....      but the rest of the talent is either too old or too young or too average or too expensive...

 

Bad combination.

 

[crazycolt1]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 5:24 PM, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

OK Jason, what is either inaccurate or overblown?  We are the OLDEST team in the league, so much for building a franchise, and for every one decent FA or draft signings by Grigson, there are four or five really bad ones. 

That stat of the Colts being the oldest is deceiving. We had Vinatieri, Mathis, Hasslebeck and Adams on the roster. Take those age averages off and the average age gets quite a bit younger. What is overblown is you stat of 4 or 5 bad signings for every 1 good signing.

[BOTT]

19 hours ago, JColts72 said:

Our records may be worse then 8 and 8 this season. Is there anybody left after D cuts to bebesides Mathis?

 Colts will win the division easily IMO.  I'm no fan of Pagano, but he made some excellent hires on the offensive side of the ball....Chud, Philbin, Schottenheimer.....the offense should be deadly.

 

Unfortunately, the defense will hold them back come playoff time.