Pagano agrees to a contract extension, Grigson retained [Mega-merge]

[luv_pony_express]

19 minutes ago, hawkeyes said:

 

Agree really stupid comparison - Grigs is not BP and likely will never be.  Further the drafts /moves his first four years IMO are much worse than BPs!   I dont care about the team record - his draft picks/moves clearly werent the reason for those "team" records!

 

And there were way too many ummmmm uhhhhh ummmmmm uhhhhh ummmmms from Irsay last night - and Grigs used it way too often as well.   Tells me there still exist a whole lot of uncertainty right now ...

Irsay always says "um" a lot.

 

But I suspect they were all trying to be careful in their choices of words.

[Cynjin]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

They took all day. I hope they got some stuff figured out.

 

I read that Irsay had a long meeting with Pagano, another one with Grigson and the had Grigson and Pagano meet.  So hopefully there was a lot of communication and airing of differences that led to a understanding of how to make this work.

[Valpo2004]

Just heard this on the radio and looked it up on Walterfootball.  Apparently Grigson was also extended, not just retained.

 

Walterfootball gave my feelings on the matter.  A B grade for keeping Pagano said he was just a mediocre coach but there is no reason right now to disrupt the continuity of the team.  But gave a York (In reference to Jed York for the worst possible ownership decisions) for extending Grigson.

 

So I guess we get to watch Grigson draft another 1st round bust this year.  Yay.  

[Swan Ronson]

Here's the neoliberal ideologue again.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, JSChicago said:

 

Yes, I'm guessing there were a few things hammered out that we are not privy to so I'll look at this as "tweaking a cylinder" instead of rebuilding the whole engine..... we'll see next year whether or not it took.

Well, if it doesn't take even if hammering it out...its just as much Chuck's fault for giving in ..... because Grigson doesn't have the authority to tell him who to start or discipline.

[Pelt]

4 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Umm no they are anabaptists.  

Are you sure? I thought I remember reading about them being pseudoproctologists.

[Smonroe]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He made an ill-advised comparison with Ryan Grigson and Bill Polian.     Basically said Grigson's first four years as GM are better than Polians.

 

I'm very, very sorry he said that.    He looks terrible for saying that.   And Grigson looks bad too.     No one compares those two.     Goodness,  that's a bad, bad mistake.

 

Here's one story about it...........

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/1/5/10713744/jim-irsay-says-ryan-grigson-has-outdone-bill-polian-to-start-tenure-with-colts

 

Sorry NCF, I disagree with you (and the article).  Josh was making a mountain out of ... nothing.  What Irsay said was a fact.  The results of the first four years of the current regime are better.

 

No one said that Polian didn't build a better team, or that this means Grigson will be a HoFer.

 

To me, this article was no better than the people drawing conclusions that Grigson was PO'd because of the "way he looks".  Ridiculous.

[coltsfeva]

  A lot of mixed opinions here, understandably so. I for one am glad Pags got his extension. So many things went wrong this year and to put it all on him would not have been fair. 

  This year revealed a lot that needs to be corrected and I'm hopeful, because these things can be improved:

Chud having his offense installed from day 1.

Better in-game coaching decisions and GM choices

Andrew making better decisions.

The O-line improving and depth added.

The pass rush improving with a healthy Mathis, draft and FA.  (Walden and/or Newsome could be factors). This would help the defensive game plan as they would not need to blitz as much to get pressure.

The run defense has been noticeably better and with Henry Anderson and Author Jones coming back, the Colts could have a pretty decent D-line.

Help for Vonte Davis, i.e. Geathers starting draft/FA.

LB help via draft/FA

 

I'm seeing the glass half full. Things need to change and they can, without getting rid of Pagano and Grigson. We have been accustomed to double-digit wins every year and years like this happen to most teams in the league.

 

GO COLTS!!!!!

[buccolts]

Non-story.

I'm not biting.

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Sorry NCF, I disagree with you (and the article).  Josh was making a mountain out of ... nothing.  What Irsay said was a fact.  The results of the first four years of the current regime are better.

 

No one said that Polian didn't build a better team, or that this means Grigson will be a HoFer.

 

To me, this article was no better than the people drawing conclusions that Grigson was PO'd because of the "way he looks".  Ridiculous.

I agree. You can hand pick what you want to hear without hearing all of it. His comment about the Polians era is taken out of context just like the media took out the riff between Pagano and Grigson out of context. It seems a few in this forum have a media's mentality.

[jskinnz]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

I agree. You can hand pick what you want to hear without hearing all of it. His comment about the Polians era is taken out of context just like the media took out the riff between Pagano and Grigson out of context. It seems a few in this forum have a media's mentality.

 

Yes.  There are many stories from yesterday - this is not one of them.

[coltsva]

I knew Bill Polian. Bill Polian was a friend of mine, General manager, you're no Bill Polian.

[2006Coltsbestever]

49 minutes ago, Mr Clueless said:

 

Irsay sad that the team needs to get younger, so no.

See he reads my Posts (sarcasm)

[shakedownstreet]

maybe not the best comparison, but is it really worth getting upset about...

 

take a deep breath and move on. everything will be okay

[ricker182]

Irsay is 100% right.   

  

Grigson, in his first four years with the Colts, has outdone what Polian did in his first four years with the Colts.   

  

That's a fact. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

20 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

  A lot of mixed opinions here, understandably so. I for one am glad Pags got his extension. So many things went wrong this year and to put it all on him would not have been fair. 

  This year revealed a lot that needs to be corrected and I'm hopeful, because these things can be improved:

Chud having his offense installed from day 1.

Better in-game coaching decisions and GM choices

Andrew making better decisions.

The O-line improving and depth added.

The pass rush improving with a healthy Mathis, draft and FA.  (Walden and/or Newsome could be factors). This would help the defensive game plan as they would not need to blitz as much to get pressure.

The run defense has been noticeably better and with Henry Anderson and Author Jones coming back, the Colts could have a pretty decent D-line.

Help for Vonte Davis, i.e. Geathers starting draft/FA.

LB help via draft/FA

 

I'm seeing the glass half full. Things need to change and they can, without getting rid of Pagano and Grigson. We have been accustomed to double-digit wins every year and years like this happen to most teams in the league.

 

GO COLTS!!!!!

Excellent Post!

[The Old Crow]

43 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Just another media hit piece on the Ruling Class to feed the readers who like hit pieces on the Ruling Class.

 

SB acknowledges the first four years are better, but then criticizes Irsay for simply making a simplified statement the second time around.  What a bunch of Marxists comments.  The Ruling Class can do no right.

 

Is the rehiring of Pagano/ Grigson a Stalinist four year plan ? 

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, The Old Crow said:

 

Is the rehiring of Pagano/ Grigson a Stalinist four year plan ? 

No, its actually a good plan.   That article appears to me like it went out of its way to find something to criticize Irsay about. Especially since it doesn't deny the basic premise of his statement's.

[SilentHill]

2 hours ago, Narcosys said:

Oh wow.  I remember people just hating on Polian before he left.  Saying he was terrible at picking draft picks and needed to go.

 

I think you are thinking about Chris Polian, not Bill.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

I think you are thinking about Chris Polian, not Bill.

No it was Bill, many were saying Bill's Draft picks stunk his last few years.

[SilentHill]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

No it was Bill, many were saying Bill's Draft picks stunk his last few years.

 

But, they were Chris's draft picks.... so.....

[Rally5]

51 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

Irsay always says "um" a lot.

 

But I suspect they were all trying to be careful in their choices of words.

He does indeed, he doesn't seem to prep for pressers and wings it.  Sometimes making verbal miscues as well. He knows what he want to talk about but it's not polished or prepared. I always get a little uncomfortable when he speaks.  When he mentioned he could have hired an eight figure guy and made a big splash, that's a bit of an insult to the guy sitting next to him that he didn't pay eight figures to and doesn't think of as a 'big splash.' But it's no big deal.....I just happen to agree with your point, bigger fish to fry.

[bababooey]

Is it not true that our first four years under Grigson are more successful than under Polian? If this is a lie then it's an issue, but it's not.

[Smonroe]

13 minutes ago, The Old Crow said:

 

Is the rehiring of Pagano/ Grigson a Stalinist four year plan ? 

 

And if it doesn't work - it's off the the Gulags!

[chad72]

A couple of things here that factored into the Irsay extension of Pagano and Grigson.

 

1. Irsay realized that if he came across as the owner who not only tweets impulsively in the past but also follows it up with impulsive actions in his football decisions, it undermines his own credibility for future coaches and GMs. He does not want this franchise stability to be viewed like it is with the Browns.

 

2. If you look at it objectively, Luck came into an AFC that was weak and reaped the benefits of a weak division. So, the Colts overachieved for their talent because you could see the talent came up short vs elite teams more times than not. It is akin to a stock market IPO that surges due to favorable conditions but has a market correction like it did this year, and moving forward, the stock's price will ascend proportionately to its true value.

 

As far as his comment on the Polians, we have to go back to the Buffalo Bills days to evaluate Polian's first few years, not Polian's first few years with the Colts. However, if it was the first few years of the Colts that Irsay was commenting on, his grievances with the Polians are petty and there is bitterness still being harbored in some fashion, IMO. From Grigson's point of view, he does not care whatsoever and knows he is tied to the hip with Pagano for the next 4 years, whether he likes it or not and HAS TO make it work.

[The Old Crow]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No.   That article appears to me like it went out of its way to find something to criticize Irsay about. Especially since it doesn't deny the basic premise of his statement's.

 

I just kind of enjoyed the Marxist/ Proletariate/ Bourgeoisie references. It brought some class to the discussion ! Lol

[CrazyHorse]

1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Umm no they are anabaptists.  

ROLL TIDE!!

[CR91]

from a record standpoint and from playoff wins, what irsay said was true. 

[scooter4910]

1 hour ago, Swan Ronson said:

Here's the neoliberal ideologue again.

Neoliberal? I was thinking more neocon.....please explain.

[Blindside]

I dont understand why people are surprised. At best with a healthy QB we were a 10-6 team

this year. Throwing a new HC, OC, philosophy, team chemistry in a blender and expect

to surpass that next year is a little bit of a reach. In other words continuity was more important

to Irsay. There were no guarantee's with any coach they bring in. My question is from

the presser, what Big splash was Irsay referring to that would have steered this in a different

direction? The only big splash imo would have been a coach with SB pedigree. 

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

 

He basically had to "justify" Grigson to the media. 

 

Thats exactly what I thought. Basically had to create a platform for him to stand on.

[The Old Crow]

7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

A couple of things here that factored into the Irsay extension of Pagano and Grigson.

 

1. Irsay realized that if he came across as the owner who not only tweets impulsively in the past but also follows it up with impulsive actions in his football decisions, it undermines his own credibility for future coaches and GMs. He does not want this franchise stability to be viewed like it is with the Browns.

 

2. If you look at it objectively, Luck came into an AFC that was weak and reaped the benefits of a weak division. So, the Colts overachieved for their talent because you could see the talent came up short vs elite teams more times than not. It is akin to a stock market IPO that surges due to favorable conditions but has a market correction like it did this year, and moving forward, the stock's price will ascend proportionately to its true value.

 

As far as his comment on the Polians, we have to go back to the Buffalo Bills days to evaluate Polian's first few years, not Polian's first few years with the Colts. However, if it was the first few years of the Colts that Irsay was commenting on, his grievances with the Polians are petty and there is bitterness still being harbored in some fashion, IMO. From Grigson's point of view, he does not care whatsoever and knows he is tied to the hip with Pagano for the next 4 years, whether he likes it or not and HAS TO make it work.

 

I think one thing to go to your Polian point about the comparison of his first four years versus Grigson's are interesting. 

 

Remember, Grigson was building on the success of the Polian years  with a now established organization with a Super Bowl under its belt. Polian had to completely change the culture , and losing ways of the Colts, from the Bob Irsay years. Both had new, top flight quarterbacks, but Polian had to rebuild and change the whole complexion of the organization, while Grigson is building on the past achievements. Other than 1995, there were few successes in Indy until Polian took over. 

[typeviic]

Still have Grigson!?!

Great, another Wide receiver in the first round.............

[Cynjin]

Mods merge this if you need to.

 

Doyle's article makes it sound like it was Pagano that saved Grigson's job.

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2016/01/05/doyel-chuck-pagano-saves-his-job-and-ryan-grigsons/78292088/

[Dustin]

Grigson's job was never at stake. Remember, this guy is better than Polian.

[GoColts8818]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He made an ill-advised comparison with Ryan Grigson and Bill Polian.     Basically said Grigson's first four years as GM are better than Polians.

 

I'm very, very sorry he said that.    He looks terrible for saying that.   And Grigson looks bad too.     No one compares those two.     Goodness,  that's a bad, bad mistake.

 

Here's one story about it...........

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/1/5/10713744/jim-irsay-says-ryan-grigson-has-outdone-bill-polian-to-start-tenure-with-colts

Yeah that was a dumb comment.  I understand Irsay was trying to point out this era is off to a better start than the Manning one but that was dumb.

[GoColts8818]

Yeah don't buy that.  Doyle just can't admit his witch hunt was for not.

[DougDew]

17 minutes ago, The Old Crow said:

 

I think one thing to go to your Polian point about the comparison of his first four years versus Grigson's are interesting. 

 

Remember, Grigson was building on the success of the Polian years  with a now established organization with a Super Bowl under its belt. Polian had to completely change the culture , and losing ways of the Colts, from the Bob Irsay years. Both had new, top flight quarterbacks, but Polian had to rebuild and change the whole complexion of the organization, while Grigson is building on the past achievements. Other than 1995, there were few successes in Indy until Polian took over. 

I think that is a bit overstated.  Bill Tobin changed the culture, IMO.  He was the first competent football hire by the Irsay's, and I think Jimmy was the lead in that hire, but Bob was still the owner.  Tobin was the guy who challenged Mel Kiper during the draft for basically picking on the Colts for being the laughing stock of the NFL.

 

Tobin was a better GM than Polian, IMO.  He brought the Colts Lindy Infante (who was a very good OC) Vince Tobin, Jim Harbaugh, Will Worford, Kirk Lowdermilk, Tony Bennett...drafted Tony Siragusa, Jeff Herrod, Tarik Glenn, and Marvin Harrison.

 

Other than Reggie Wayne, the only notable draft choices Polian made were PM, Edgerrin James, and Dwight Freeney, neither of them drafted below slot 11.  Mathis was a fluke.

 

But this is straying off topic.

[The Old Crow]

That sounds like Chuck, he's a good guy. When your life was on the line, this stuff is a piece of cake.  

[The Old Crow]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think that is a bit overstated.  Bill Tobin changed the culture, IMO.  He was the first competent football hire by the Irsay's, and I think Jimmy was the lead in that hire, but Bob was still the owner.  Tobin was the guy who challenged Mel Kiper during the draft for basically picking on the Colts for being the laughing stock of the NFL.

 

Tobin was a better GM than Polian, IMO.  He brought the Colts Lindy Infante (who was a very good OC) Vince Tobin, Jim Harbaugh, Will Worford, Kirk Lowdermilk, Tony Bennett...drafted Tony Siragusa, Jeff Herrod, Tarik Glenn, and Marvin Harrison.

 

Other than Reggie Wayne, the only notable draft choices Polian made were PM, Edgerrin James, and Dwight Freeney, neither of them drafted below slot 11.  Mathis was a fluke.

 

But this is straying off topic.

 

Good points about Tobin, but the winning really began under Polian. We had a similar situation with the Orioles where Andy McPhail made many great moves , but Dan Ducquette got more credit because they won. I guess it's fair to say that both Tobin and Polian both set into motion future Colt successes. I do think what these two accomplished was much harder than what Grigson was up against. 

 

If Chuck or Grigson were fired, the Colts job would be # 1 on anybody's list because of Luck. When you have a great QB, you can find the other pieces.