Pagano agrees to a contract extension, Grigson retained [Mega-merge]

[DougDew]

 

 

Don't waste your clicks....

[Narcosys]

47 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

I think you are thinking about Chris Polian, not Bill.

Nope.  People were bashing both.  They were fired at the same time. 

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, The Old Crow said:

 

Good points about Tobin, but the winning really began under Polian. We had a similar situation with the Orioles where Andy McPhail made many great moves , but Dan Ducquette got more credit because they won. I guess it's fair to say that both Tobin and Polian both set into motion future Colt successes. I do think what these two accomplished was much harder than what Grigson was up against. 

 

If Chuck or Grigson were fired, the Colts job would be # 1 on anybody's list because of Luck. When you have a great QB, you can find the other pieces. 

You can compare that to Polian/Manning, which is why I think Tobin's record is more impressive, despite not winning as much.

[Narcosys]

28 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

Mods merge this if you need to.

 

Doyle's article makes it sound like it was Pagano that saved Grigson's job.

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2016/01/05/doyel-chuck-pagano-saves-his-job-and-ryan-grigsons/78292088/

This dude was in the same boat as holder and everyone else when it came to Pagano and Irsay being gone.  Now that they are wrong,  they are back tracking. Dan dakich ftw

 

Good read though. 

[lollygagger8]

I was so happy the day Na'Polian got fired, I jumped in the air and clicked my heels. That said, Na'Polian was only bad at the end when he tried to hand over the reigns to Chrissy. 

 

For Irsay to say that, he must've been inebriated or something. That is one of the dumber things he's ever said.....and he's had his share. 

[lollygagger8]

Chuck: "Hey Grigs, let's play nice and maybe we can get to keep our jobs" 

Grigs: "Ok, I'll put in a good word for you, and you do the same" 

Chuck: "Done deal" 

[SilentHill]

4 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Nope.  People were bashing both.  They were fired at the same time. 

 

I think you remember people bashing him until they realized that Chris Polian was making the draft decisions for the last few years. No one in their right mind would bash Bill Polian, unless you are just bashing him for endorsing his son.

[deedub75]

10 hours ago, DougDew said:

What toxic relationships?  Jimmy just said that he knows what reality was.  Not kravitz.

 

He also said that Grigson has outdone Polian to begin his tenure with the Colts.....

[bap1331]

8 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

All we can do is speculate since the Indy media doesn't seem to have very reliable sources. I for one don't really buy all the "Grigson is an evil dictator" talk. As far as I can tell, the media blew that way out of proportion. If it was anywhere near as bad as they made it sound, Pagano wouldn't have even wanted the extension, he would've just taken an offer somewhere else and washed his hands of Irsay and Grigson. Not only were they dead wrong about that, but were wrong about Chuck getting fired today as well. They were certain of it, reports coming out about it all over the place. That's 2 HUGE Colts stories within 7 days, fed from "sources close to the team," that basically ended up being completely wrong.

Well you never know. Irsay WAS very angry when talking about bullying.

[bap1331]

7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

The NFL announcer came out and said the riff between Chuck and Ryan was blown way out of perspective by the media. Way too many forum members bought into what the media was selling IMO. As it stand right now the Colts will have Chuck and Ryan the next four years. I for one am not going to cry and whine about who said this or who said that and move forward with my fandom. We have no choice but to wait and see no matter how things turn out.

 

Yea at this point we know grigson does have an eye for talent with anderson, parry, lowery, freeman, etc. He just needs to bring it to the oline, dline, and cb then we are SOLID!

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

He also said that Grigson has outdone Polian to begin his tenure with the Colts.....

Yes, he has.  There is another thread on it.  Irsay saying THIS....

[jet1968]

Irsay- Ryan, you and Chuck kiss and make up or both of you will be gone.

 

[chad72]

28 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think that is a bit overstated.  Bill Tobin changed the culture, IMO.  He was the first competent football hire by the Irsay's, and I think Jimmy was the lead in that hire, but Bob was still the owner.  Tobin was the guy who challenged Mel Kiper during the draft for basically picking on the Colts for being the laughing stock of the NFL.

 

Tobin was a better GM than Polian, IMO.  He brought the Colts Lindy Infante (who was a very good OC) Vince Tobin, Jim Harbaugh, Will Worford, Kirk Lowdermilk, Tony Bennett...drafted Tony Siragusa, Jeff Herrod, Tarik Glenn, and Marvin Harrison.

 

Other than Reggie Wayne, the only notable draft choices Polian made were PM, Edgerrin James, and Dwight Freeney, neither of them drafted below slot 11.  Mathis was a fluke.

 

But this is straying off topic.

 

Getting the right coaches, finding players like Clark, Addai, Bethea, Mathis, Sanders, Collie, Garcon, McAfee, Castanzo all of whom contributed were not all flukes, IMO. How many times did the Colts pick in the mid to late 20s? Managing to find talent and first round picks to contribute, as we can see with Grigson, is not an easy thing to do. While Tobin did change the culture, the changes that Bill Polian made with bringing in Dungy and keeping Tom Moore etc. around to help with Peyton cannot be understated. Bill made the most out of our draft picks at least till Chris started running the show more, IMO.

 

The singular thing that stands out is how the team fared without the starting QB, and on that front, Grigson and the coaches have done a better job building a team that is not nearly as dependent on the QB as it was with Peyton. Peyton goes out and we are 2-14, and Luck goes out, we hang in there much better.

 

 

[Narcosys]

8 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

I think you remember people bashing him until they realized that Chris Polian was making the draft decisions for the last few years. No one in their right mind would bash Bill Polian, unless you are just bashing him for endorsing his son.

It wasn't just the last few years people had issue with.   It just got worse as his son took over.   He committed to Chris,  and unfortunately it didn't work out. 

[deedub75]

38 minutes ago, Blindside said:

I dont understand why people are surprised. At best with a healthy QB we were a 10-6 team

this year. Throwing a new HC, OC, philosophy, team chemistry in a blender and expect

to surpass that next year is a little bit of a reach. In other words continuity was more important

to Irsay. There were no guarantee's with any coach they bring in. My question is from

the presser, what Big splash was Irsay referring to that would have steered this in a different

direction? The only big splash imo would have been a coach with SB pedigree. 

 

The reason that I'm surprised is because Pagano was not offered a long term contract before the beginning of the season.  They obviously did not have much confidence in him to offer him one.  I really believe that Pagano and Grigson have a toxic relationship.  There is just too much smoke out there about their relationship for there not to be some fire and truth to it.  They may have hashed everything out last night and decided to work better together which led to the extensions.  What happens when Pagano and Grigson have that first disagreement on a free agent or a draft pick?

[bababooey]

7 minutes ago, bap1331 said:

 

Yea at this point we know grigson does have an eye for talent with anderson, parry, lowery, freeman, etc. He just needs to bring it to the oline, dline, and cb then we are SOLID!

Anderson, Parry, and Langford are all D line. Can't fault him for Jones' injuries either.

[deedub75]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes, he has.  There is another thread on it.  Irsay saying THIS....

 

Which explains my point.  Irsay says a lot of untrue things.  

[chad72]

8 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

It wasn't just the last few years people had issue with.   It just got worse as his son took over.   He committed to Chris,  and unfortunately it didn't work out. 

 

Bill Polian's issue was he got defensive whenever his methods were questioned, and never was friendly with the local media. He gave scoops to ESPN and Mortensen first while dissing local media. All of that was naturally going to earn him some negative points locally, IMO.

 

His biggest flaw was building the team outside in but then, like he did with Marv Levy, he builts the defensive pieces to play with a lead and for Dungy's system. I wish he had put his foot down and insisted on some bigger players to go along with the speedy guys we had. That was the problem with system players, they always end up like misfits once they go elsewhere, so in hindsight they always look like bad picks, IMO. He did not dabble nearly as much as Grigson in free agency while still managing to land Vinatieri and got burned with Corey Simon, but did make a pivotal trade for Booger that was a big part of our SB run. I did not like the fact he did not value our LBs like Thornton or Peterson to re-sign them but gave a contract to Gary Brackett later on.

 

You got to give credit where it is deserved, IMO, while dishing out blame where it is deserved.

 

 

[jbaron04]

9 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Irsay said there is no bullying his head coach not that it was stopping that's a big difference.

 

Also, I am assuming part of the reason Pagano looked so happy and Grigson so glum is Pagano won some control.  

 

Still, regardless they need to and I am sure will put their big boy pants on and work together to build a winner because Irsay made it very clear tonight they are now tied together so if one goes from now on the other probably goes.  It's now in their best interests to work together.  

I was  when irsay said , to make it clear there will be no more bullying etc.... 

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Getting the right coaches, finding players like Clark, Addai, Bethea, Mathis, Sanders, Collie, Garcon, McAfee, Castanzo all of whom contributed were not all flukes, IMO. How many times did the Colts pick in the mid to late 20s? Managing to find talent and first round picks to contribute, as we can see with Grigson, is not an easy thing to do. While Tobin did change the culture, the changes that Bill Polian made with bringing in Dungy and keeping Tom Moore etc. around to help with Peyton cannot be understated. Bill made the most out of our draft picks at least till Chris started running the show more, IMO.

 

The singular thing that stands out is how the team fared without the starting QB, and on that front, Grigson and the coaches have done a better job building a team that is not nearly as dependent on the QB as it was with Peyton. Peyton goes out and we are 2-14, and Luck goes out, we hang in there much better.

 

 

Yeah, but you're measuring those players over a longer time period.  Polian didn't light up the draft board in the early years unless it was a high first round pick, and in some ways the EJ pick was just a push with the Faulk trade.  He wasted a lot of high 2nd and 3rd rounders in those early years.

 

And the early years of Polian's tenure, his vet FA acquisitions were terrible.  Tobin nailed all of them when he started, bringing over a lot from the NFC at the time.  The production of Grigson's veteran acquisitions is at least the same or better than Polian's in the first four years...without the cap hit or potential dead cap hit.

 

Yeah, I think Irsay's statement is pretty supportable.

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, but you're measuring those players over a longer time period.  Polian didn't light up the draft board in the early years unless it was a high first round pick, and in some ways the EJ pick was just a push with the Faulk trade.  He wasted a lot of high 2nd and 3rd rounders in those early years.

 

And the early years of Polian's tenure, his vet FA acquisitions were terrible.  Tobin nailed all of them when he started, bringing over a lot from the NFC at the time.  The production of Grigson's veteran acquisitions is at least the same or better than Polian's in the first four years...without the cap hit or potential dead cap hit.

 

Yeah, I think Irsay's statement is pretty supportable.

 

Yes, that part I do agree with. He was drafting for Mora's system, I guess. IMO, Polian always blew smoke when he said best player available. He took best player available in round 1 and then compromised with his coaches for future rounds for system fit, IMO (explains Pat Angerer in round 2 etc.). Once Mora was gone after those initial 4 years, the same players were not nearly worth as much for Dungy's system, you have to factor those in as well while evaluating Polian's picks.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

The reason that I'm surprised is because Pagano was not offered a long term contract before the beginning of the season.  They obviously did not have much confidence in him to offer him one.  I really believe that Pagano and Grigson have a toxic relationship.  There is just too much smoke out there about their relationship for there not to be some fire and truth to it.  They may have hashed everything out last night and decided to work better together which led to the extensions.  What happens when Pagano and Grigson have that first disagreement on a free agent or a draft pick?

The expiration of Grigson's and Pagano's contracts were not aligned last summer.  The one year extension offer corrected that.  The media fails to overlook that.

 

Irsay has now made a point to emphasize that they are joined at the hip, and the contracts are now set to expire simultaneously, with Pags receiving 4 extra years and Grigs 3.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

How do you figure I don't like the mistakes Grigson has made either but the fact of the matter is Grigson and Pagano haven't had a losing season and Manning and Polian had two in their first four years.

 

It's not that it's TECHNICALLY WRONG,  it's not.    Grigson's first years have been better.    But it looks like we're taking another shot (cheap shot) at Polian,  who served this team well.    The man was just elected into the HoF on the FIRST BALLOT!!       Is Irsay expecting that Grigson is on his way to Hall of Fame career?

 

It was unnecessary.     It looks petty and small.     It looks unappreciative of what Polian did for Indy.

 

 

[chad72]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

It's not that it's TECHNICALLY WRONG,  it's not.    Grigson's first years have been better.    But it looks like we're taking another shot (cheap shot) at Polian,  who served this team well.    The man was just elected into the HoF on the FIRST BALLOT!!       Is Irsay expecting that Grigson is on his way to Hall of Fame career?

 

It was unnecessary.     It looks petty and small.     It looks unappreciative of what Polian did for Indy.

 

 

Irsay harbors bitterness longer than he should. He does with Peyton, and does with Polian as well, for different reasons and maybe other reasons that only he knows. I don't think it is going to be good for his health, IMO, and I hope he lets it go. His words constantly remind me of his accrued bitterness, justified or not.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

... "dumb like a fox" ... love it!

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, BrentMc11 said:

Whether we like him or not, Bill Polian is a HOF GM.  He did great things and provided us winning seasons every year.  I was 'kinda' happy with the Super Bowl years.  When he had Chris as GM.....may be the worst decision of his entire career.  

 

Grigson is starting his career.  He is obviously still sucking his pacifier.  He wants to coach and GM.  That does not work.  Just ask the late Bob Irsay..among others.

 

There needs to be some wording in the contracts that give Pagano more power.  If not, we will be starting the likes of Mike McGlynn, Todd Herremans, and Jonathan Harrison.  (Disregard typos)

 

My question will be....who will be the offensive 

Coordinator and Defensive Coordinator??

 

Go Colts.  I think Pagano staying will be great.  Not so great with Grigs....but.......

 

I'm expecting the same two coordinators that we finished with.

 

But I confess I'd like us to look into a better O-line coach/coaches and switching to a zone blocking scheme and less man-to-man blocking.     I think Zone is better on the NFL level.

 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It's not that it's TECHNICALLY WRONG,  it's not.    Grigson's first years have been better.    But it looks like we're taking another shot (cheap shot) at Polian,  who served this team well.    The man was just elected into the HoF on the FIRST BALLOT!!       Is Irsay expecting that Grigson is on his way to Hall of Fame career?

 

It was unnecessary.     It looks petty and small.     It looks unappreciative of what Polian did for Indy.

 

 

Really?  I thought Irsay just basically said that Grigson has done a better job than Polian did his first four years, and he is a HOFamer.  I guess if a person think's Grigson sucks, that is meant to be a shot at Polian. 

 

But I think irsay was simply saying that to show that Grigson has done a good job...in his opinion.

 

Just putting Polian into a sentence doesn't mean the topic of the sentence changes.

[Cynjin]

30 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

This dude was in the same boat as holder and everyone else when it came to Pagano and Irsay being gone.  Now that they are wrong,  they are back tracking. Dan dakich ftw

 

Good read though. 

 

It is really interesting to see what these guys were writing before yesterday and now what they are saying.

[weslo1812]

11 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Not shocked..he's never had a losing season.....

 

he was 8-8 without Andrew for 8....

 

'sources' were wrong

Yeah...If there was really the tension and interference going on between Pagano and Grigson like reports were claiming, I'm pretty sure Irsay would have been aware and changes would have been made. Alot of it was probably just hyperbowl. I do hope if anything though in that meeting that some things were made very clear like giving Luck a legitimate O line and getting some playmakers on this defense. Also Maybe some changes in how they aproach things. We will see though. And in all honesty who is to guarentee that just because a new GM is hired that things will automatically be fixed and be better. Not that I'm happy,with Grigson because I'm quite displeased with a number of things he's done but now at this point I can only hope for better.

[shakedownstreet]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

It's not that it's TECHNICALLY WRONG,  it's not.    Grigson's first years have been better.    But it looks like we're taking another shot (cheap shot) at Polian,  who served this team well.    The man was just elected into the HoF on the FIRST BALLOT!!       Is Irsay expecting that Grigson is on his way to Hall of Fame career?

 

It was unnecessary.     It looks petty and small.     It looks unappreciative of what Polian did for Indy.

 

you make your own choice to read into it that way. we all have our own biases

[krunk]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm expecting the same two coordinators that we finished with.

 

But I confess I'd like us to look into a better O-line coach/coaches and switching to a zone blocking scheme and less man-to-man blocking.     I think Zone is better on the NFL level.

 

 

The man said the first 4 years NCF.  He did not say Grigson is a hall of famer.  I don't see anything wrong with the comparison. Grigson did not come into this job as an accomplished playoff winning GM.  Polian however did so if Grigson is creating a similar product in his first 4 years as somebody that is headed to the hall of fame that's great info for why you should NOT fire the guy.  It's not the only info but it's important information.

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Really?  I thought Irsay just basically said that Grigson has done a better job than Polian did his first four years, and he is a HOFamer.  I guess if a person think's Grigson sucks, that is meant to be a shot at Polian. 

 

But I think irsay was simply saying that to show that Grigson has done a good job...in his opinion.

 

Just putting Polian into a sentence doesn't mean the topic of the sentence changes.

 

I don't think most NFL observers will read that that way.   Yes,  they may read it as a compliment to Grigson, (who I don't think sucks)  but I think they will also take it as a shot at Polian.     One could've given Grigson a compliment with ever mentioning the Polian's name.

 

"Ryan Grigson will remain as the Colts General manager.   In his first 4-years here, he's won 41 regular season games,  44 including the playoffs.    I've been pleased with his work and I'm happy to bring him back."

 

That's what Irsay could've said without mentioning Polian.    I want to stay above the fray.   I want to stay classy.   I don't want us to appear ungrateful or unappreciative of what Polian did for this franchise.     Because the odds are incredibly small that over the same period of time that Polian was the GM (14 or 15 years)  that Grigson will end up with as good a record as Polian did.     And then what? 

 

[jet1968]

12 hours ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

I'm disappointed.. if Grigson stays I'm boycotting the season.

You boycotting the rest of this season or next season?

[shakedownstreet]

blah blah blah blah blah...

 

...nuff said

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't think most NFL observers will read that that way.   Yes,  they may read it as a compliment to Grigson, (who I don't think sucks)  but I think they will also take it as a shot at Polian.     One could've given Grigson a compliment with ever mentioning the Polian's name.

 

"Ryan Grigson will remain as the Colts General manager.   In his first 4-years here, he's won 41 regular season games,  44 including the playoffs.    I've been pleased with his work and I'm happy to bring him back."

 

That's what Irsay could've said without mentioning Polian.    I want to stay above the fray.   I want to stay classy.   I don't want us to appear ungrateful or unappreciative of what Polian did for this franchise.     Because the odds are incredibly small that over the same period of time that Polian was the GM (14 or 15 years)  that Grigson will end up with as good a record as Polian did.     And then what? 

 

Jimmy isn't a professional speaker....you know, a lot of umms suggest that he is searching for words.  I think if the media looks at it as a shot on Polian, they are trying to create drama. 

 

Marketing data suggests that squabbling Kardashians sells copy.

[rockywoj]

One interesting thing about the 4-year extension for Pagano and the 3 year extension for Grigson ... from my understanding that is also when Jim Harbaugh's contract with Michigan expires.  A timing coincidence?

[jet1968]

I just dont think there would have been a better coach out there to hire. Now the GM I have my doubts but I'm guessing Irsay is going to be a little bit more hands on when it comes to some of the GM job. Grigson looked like a puppy that just got spanked for being a bad puppy.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Jimmy isn't a professional speaker....you know, a lot of umms suggest that he is searching for words.  I think if the media looks at it as a shot on Polian, they are trying to create drama. 

 

Marketing data suggests that squabbling Kardashians sells copy.

 

I think the person who created the drama was Irsay.    

 

That isn't the type of comment that only came because Irsay couldn't think of anything else to say.    That issue is on Irsay's mind.     He's defending his hire who has taken a beating in the last month or so.     That wasn't the comment of someone who simply isn't a professional speaker.    He's the owner of the most important franchise in the state.    He speaks publicly a fair amount.    That wasn't a whoops.     He thought it,  and he said it.

 

I wish he hadn't.     I don't mind him defending Grigson.    He just didn't have to go there by using Polian's name.

 

[Blindside]

34 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

The reason that I'm surprised is because Pagano was not offered a long term contract before the beginning of the season.  They obviously did not have much confidence in him to offer him one.  I really believe that Pagano and Grigson have a toxic relationship.  There is just too much smoke out there about their relationship for there not to be some fire and truth to it.  They may have hashed everything out last night and decided to work better together which led to the extensions.  What happens when Pagano and Grigson have that first disagreement on a free agent or a draft pick?

 

imo Irsay was always in Chucks corner. There is no rule you have to extend someone before their contract is up. Irsay did the right thing. He had to get both Grigson and Pagano in the same room together and hash out all their differences. To be honest, during the presser I saw the balance of power shift  to Pagano. Both Irsay and Pagano made the comment that Pagano wanted Grigson extended. I took that as, Pagano has more power or has atleast earned the power to make those decisions which in the end can only be a good thing in the long run.

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

The man said the first 4 years NCF.  He did not say Grigson is a hall of famer.  I don't see anything wrong with the comparison. Grigson did not come into this job as an accomplished playoff winning GM.  Polian however did so if Grigson is creating a similar product in his first 4 years as somebody that is headed to the hall of fame that's great info for why you should NOT fire the guy.  It's not the only info but it's important information.

 

Irsay could've said all sorts of nice things about Grigson WITHOUT using Polian's name.    It was simply unnecessary.     There's a strong case for Grigson without using Polian's name.    I wrote a "for example...."  elsewhere in this thread....    think I was responding to Doug Dew.     

 

Instead Irsay looks like he's taking a shot at Polian.     It's just unnecessary.    Let Grigson's work stand on his own.