Pagano agrees to a contract extension, Grigson retained [Mega-merge]

[OffensivelyPC]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I spent all this time the past few weeks getting kind of excited about the interview process for new GMs and HCs... 

 

My favorites, as of today, would be Duke Tobin, Bengals Director of Personnel, and Hue Jackson, Bengals OC. Not because they're a package deal, but that doesn't hurt. 

With Coughlin being gone, him and the director of personnel for the giants (spacing on his name, but we interviewed him back in 2012, would have been a decent duo as coach/GM as well).

 

EDIT - not Director of Player Personnel, VP of Player Evaluation - Mark Ross.

[GoColts8818]

12 minutes ago, bababooey said:

He said we will get younger

I think both Irsay and Grigson learned free agency isn't the answer.  Which does mean we will probably have to be a little patient as this means going back to the draft with a free agent here or there.  That will take a little time to plug holes.  

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I spent all this time the past few weeks getting kind of excited about the interview process for new GMs and HCs... 

 

My favorites, as of today, would be Duke Tobin, Bengals Director of Personnel, and Hue Jackson, Bengals OC. Not because they're a package deal, but that doesn't hurt. 

I've never heard of Duke Tobin, but the Bengals are probably the best overall team in the NFL talent-wise. They just don't have a QB who can lead them. If Tobin had something to do with that, then I would have been all for him. Hue Jackson I like as well. Simple choices, I was expecting someone like Mike Shanahan from you lol.

[ricker182]

31 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think this season came down to were you impressed that they went 6-3 with backup QBs or disappointed they went 2-5 with Andrew Luck?  Depending on where you fall on that question probably tells you where you stand on the should they have kept Pagano/Grigson front. 

Luck was injured in the Buffalo game.  

I'm quite certain of that.

  

Thought he could gut it out.  

Looked good in the Denver game though.

[RockThatBlue]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

Has the media been playing us for fools this whole time?

For those with twitter you gotta see Dan Dakich calling Kravitz and Holder out for getting this wrong. Its hilarious.

[buccolts]

22 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Did you check? You should probably check.

 

However, what I'm talking about goes much deeper than just final scores and win/loss records. Ron Rivera basically transformed as a coach overnight, going from a super conservative, losing coach, to a 'seize the day' kind of guy who basically owns 4th down. 

 

Still, Pagano has three times as many playoff wins as Rivera, in one season less.

 

It takes a while to get the Ryan stench off of you.

[Buck Showalter]

6 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Well, there was a thread somewhere around here that touched on it.  But it had to do with Pat McAfee's stand up and calling Grigson an * and whatnot.  It had been a recurring theme in alot of the articles talking about Grigson meddling in Pagano's on-field coaching decisions and players being told "his hands are tied."  I couldn't recall one single article or instance but it's been a collection of things I've read over hte past several months.  As Colts8188 said, it's not unusual. 

Thats cool, hopefully Jim got things sorted today and all parties know their roles going forward..

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

With Coughlin being gone, him and the director of personnel for the giants (spacing on his name, but we interviewed him back in 2012, would have been a decent duo as coach/GM as well).

 

EDIT - not Director of Player Personnel, VP of Player Evaluation - Mark Ross.

 

Marc Ross was my favorite back then. I just kind of got excited about Tobin over the last couple weeks. 

 

Somebody needs to kidnap Erik Decosta's kids and force him to leave Baltimore... j/k, don't arrest me

[Superman]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

For those with twitter you gotta see Dan Dakich calling Kravitz and Holder out for getting this wrong. Its hilarious.

 

They've been jerks to him all season long, especially lately. They call him Grigson's water boy, and other stuff. I'm not mad at him.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Buck Showalter said:

Thats cool, hopefully Jim got things sorted today and all parties know their roles going forward..

 

They took all day. I hope they got some stuff figured out.

[CanuckColtsFan]

1. Congratulations Chuck! You've learned some lessons. Let's see some big wins next year. I really look forward to a strong draft. Build that D.

[bap1331]

It feels like a fan and player victory bringing Pagano back, but Grigson was humiliated today not only by the fans but by Irsay himself mentioning there will be no more "bullying". A couple of months ago, it was mentioned that Grigson had a heated conversation with Irsay.

 

But lets put this into a perspective of people like us who works at an office 9 to 5 job. If your manager is a big meanie, would you be performing at top level at your job? You would probably purposely do whatever you can to ruin that other person's life....like your manager.

 

Lets say they give Pagano more control over who gets drafted. Pagano says, "lets draft this guy". Grigson will say, "NOPE! Let's get this guy". I say we still have an offseason to convince Irsay to fire Grigson before the draft. Im sure Pagano and his staff can do it all alone without a GM.

[bleevit]

Okay boys, you got your chance.  I'm glad.  Now bring some big bodies in here to kick some behinds!  LMAO.

[bleevit]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They've been jerks to him all season long, especially lately. They call him Grigson's water boy, and other stuff. I'm not mad at him.

Kravitz couldn't find a ball bat in a pan of beans as far as I'm concerned.

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I've never heard of Duke Tobin, but the Bengals are probably the best overall team in the NFL talent-wise. They just don't have a QB who can lead them. If Tobin had something to do with that, then I would have been all for him. Hue Jackson I like as well. Simple choices, I was expecting someone like Mike Shanahan from you lol.

 

You've heard of his dad, Bill Tobin: "Who the hell is Mel Kiper?" Yeah, him. Used to be the Colts GM. He's now a scout, working under his son, Duke, in Cincinnati. He's basically third in line in the Bengals organization, handles personnel, scouting, etc., while Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown make the ultimate decisions. I think he's the man behind the curtain.

 

I'll definitely pass on any Shanahans.

[RockThatBlue]

57 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Your not missing much by not reading Doyle, he honestly just stirs the pot.  That's all he does. 

Doyel is the worst writer in Indianapolis sports media history. He's bad.

[GoColts8818]

Irsay said there is no bullying his head coach not that it was stopping that's a big difference.

 

Also, I am assuming part of the reason Pagano looked so happy and Grigson so glum is Pagano won some control.  

 

Still, regardless they need to and I am sure will put their big boy pants on and work together to build a winner because Irsay made it very clear tonight they are now tied together so if one goes from now on the other probably goes.  It's now in their best interests to work together.  

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, bleevit said:

Kravitz couldn't find a ball bat in a pan of beans as far as I'm concerned.

 

Uhh, that sounds bad, but I'm not sure.

[krunk]

I've always maintained the line that I'm cool with Grigson and Pagano.  Grigson will always deal in free agents who he thinks can help the team. However he's shown me enough to where I know his involvement in that is going to be much less than it was in the beginning.  From this point on his moves will be more focused on drafting young talent. He's spoken out of his own mouth about stockpiling draft picks and stockpiling young talented players obtained from the draft.  I don't think he's any more fascinated with Free Agents than any other GM. It's just the route we took during the retooling process.  He's had some misses, but he's also had quite a number of hits as well. Enough for me to believe he's competent at evaluating talent if given enough chances to do so in the right arena.  I'm pretty confident in my belief Pagano can get us where we need to go if Irsay and Grigson upgrade the staff around him along with some personnell changes in some key areas.  

 

 Always thought the media narrative between Grigson and Pagano had a lot of mischievious lies placed into it by people who had interest in making somebody pay for the deflate gate non sense. The media could not make the Pats pay, so they turned around in my opinion and said well what about the Colts?  I mean Grigson was the one who tattled so he's the Bully and oh look Pagano doesn't have a contract.  All of a sudden we've got all this nonsense going on in our neck of the woods the entire season.   And the thing is those vultures know good and darn well that Irsay tends to let contracts play out in the first place.  All of a sudden they want to act like it's something fishy behind him letting Paganos contract play out and blow up this huge ungodly narrative filled with all kinds of soap opera bull crap for the whole season.

 

Again I trust Grigson and I trust Pagano and I've always maintained that.

[bleevit]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Uhh, that sounds bad, but I'm not sure.

Well I guess if you are unable to discern the difference between beans and a ball bat, especially in an enclosed space that indicates some sort of negative connotation especially among those "enlightening" us.

[Defjamz26]

53 minutes ago, krunk said:

"Always has been (a good relationship)," Pagano said. "We agree to disagree, but at the end of the day you leave every meeting with a handshake and a hug. It's about one thing and one thing only, the team. We're going to do everything with the 'shoe in mind."

Irsay said: “If you think somebody’s going to bully my head coach, you’re wrong. Ryan’s not that type of guy. And you don’t know me."

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2016/01/04/colts-keep-coach-chuck-pagano/78284658/

 

"I could have walked someone in that door with an eight-figure (salary) a year and say, 'I'm making a big splash,'" Irsay said. "If that was the best for us, I would do it. This guy is a great coach. (Bill) Polian is going to the Hall of Fame, and Ryan's outdone him in his first four years (making the playoffs three times to Polian's two)."

 

Irsay should feel embarrassed that he has to name drop just to give his GM props. Shows a lack of confidence to me when you have to defend by comparison. I expect fans and analysts to say those things but not an NFL owner.

 

That comment was just completely distasteful IMO. But Irsay seems to have a secret vendetta against Peyton and Polian for not winning more titles so that comment doesn't surprise me considering the "questionable " comments he made last year that seemed to throw shade at Polian.

 

And don't tell me I'm taking the quote out of context because I understand what he means. It's just not a comment he needed to make. Let Grigson stand on his own accomplishments if you're so confident on him. That comment actually put him down more than it put him up.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You've heard of his dad, Bill Tobin: "Who the hell is Mel Kiper?" Yeah, him. Used to be the Colts GM. He's now a scout, working under his son, Duke, in Cincinnati. He's basically third in line in the Bengals organization, handles personnel, scouting, etc., while Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown make the ultimate decisions. I think he's the man behind the curtain.

 

I'll definitely pass on any Shanahans.

Yes, i've definitely heard of Bill Tobin, and I remember this between them. i believe it was because the Colts took Trev Alberts instead of Trent Dilfer (who kiper was high on). That's pretty cool his son works in Cinci, he sounds like he's doing a great job. 

 

[Buck Showalter]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They took all day. I hope they got some stuff figured out.

Ha, right... 

Well it'll be interesting to see how Paganos overall control of the team is affected moving forward, if in fact Jim delineated more definite "roles" for Grigs & Pags...

[bap1331]

5 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Irsay said there is no bullying his head coach not that it was stopping that's a big difference.

 

Also, I am assuming part of the reason Pagano looked so happy and Grigson so glum is Pagano won some control.  

 

Still, regardless they need to and I am sure will put their big boy pants on and work together to build a winner because Irsay made it very clear tonight they are now tied together so if one goes from now on the other probably goes.  It's now in their best interests to work together.  

 

Gotta agree. Irsay did mention "continuity". Honestly, who else can the Colts sign right now to be more successful? Take our shot with Chip Kelly? lol.

[corgi]

3 minutes ago, bleevit said:

Well I guess if you are unable to discern the difference between beans and a ball bat, especially in an enclosed space that indicates some sort of negative connotation especially among those "enlightening" us.

What you're saying is "If braims were gasoline then Kravitz wouldn't have enough to power a flea's motorcycle around a raindrop"?

[krunk]

7 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

Irsay should feel embarrassed that he has to name drop just to give his GM props. Shows a lack of confidence to me when you have to defend by comparison. I expect fans and analysts to say those things but not an NFL owner.

 

That comment was just completely distasteful IMO. But Irsay seems to have a secret vendetta against Peyton and Polian for not winning more titles so that comment doesn't surprise me considering the "questionable " comments he made last year that seemed to throw shade at Polian.

 

And don't tell me I'm taking the quote out of context because I understand what he means. It's just not a comment he needed to make. Let Grigson stand on his own accomplishments if you're so confident on him. That comment actually put him down more than it put him up.

 

 

Did you read further into the article?  He said I compare the first 4 years to what we did in the past. And why not do that?  We had some very good teams under Polian and Peyton.  So if you need a measuring stick you certainly don't overlook that.  Especially when you were a part in bringing it all together.  He is basically saying in so many words "These guys are actually doing better than the previous era so I'd be a fool to fire them".  But of course I know you've had a pessimistic attitude this season so there's that.....

[rockywoj]

This afternoon I posted this ...

 

"Pagano - 3 year extension as HC, Grigson - 2 year extension as GM ... both expiring in 2018?  (Effectively in 2017, as the mistake of lame duck coach won't be made again, but next time around they both need renewing at the same time?)"

 

I guess I was wrong, for it was 4 yrs & 3 yrs ... Close but no cigar.

 

 

I also posted this ...

 

"I simply cannot buy the wildly popular notion at these forums that coach Pagano has no input into the player decision making process.  I have seen zero evidence that such is anything more than unsubstantiated hearsay.

 

Perhaps somewhat unrelated, I recall watching a coach Dungy interview years ago and he was discussing being at the draft, in a room with Polian and Irsay trying to decide on what player to select, I believe it was 1st round of the 2003 draft.   Dungy and Polian were debating the virtues of several players and Tony then asked of Irsay which player he is leaning toward.  Dungy says Irsay said Dallas Clark.  Dungy said, with a chuckle, that he then told Irsay we should take Dallas Clark.  Hopefully that is an accurate recollection of the story.

 

I think the point is, especially at the draft, that it's very likely that Irsay, Grigson, Pagano, and the scouting staff, are ALL there making the decisions TOGETHER.  I am just totally dubious about these claims of Grigson unilaterally dictating who is drafted and who is signed as FAs, as so many here at the forum postulate.  Such postulations actually strike me as nonsensical, to be perfectly honest."

 

Again, seemingly nailed it.  So umm, what we're all the so called insiders saying?

<sticks tongue out><gloats>

 

I hope, very much, that Chuck and Grigson both evolve during their renewed stint.  Go Colts!

[needanoline63]

So we just signed two guys who don't get along to extensions. What a great way to start the year! We had the chance to get saban,mike Shula,tom coughlin,etc. and we get the coach who can only (barely)beat guys in the afc south

[FanFromtheWasteland]

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for those meetings. 

[bleevit]

2 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

This afternoon I posted this ...

 

"Pagano - 3 year extension as HC, Grigson - 2 year extension as GM ... both expiring in 2018?  (Effectively in 2017, as the mistake of lame duck coach won't be made again, but next time around they both need renewing at the same time?)"

 

I guess I was wrong, for it was 4 yrs & 3 yrs ... Close but no cigar.

 

 

I also posted this ...

 

"I simply cannot buy the wildly popular notion at these forums that coach Pagano has no input into the player decision making process.  I have seen zero evidence that such is anything more than unsubstantiated hearsay.

 

Perhaps somewhat unrelated, I recall watching a coach Dungy interview years ago and he was discussing being at the draft, in a room with Polian and Irsay trying to decide on what player to select, I believe it was 1st round of the 2003 draft.   Dungy and Polian were debating the virtues of several players and Tony then asked of Irsay which player he is leaning toward.  Dungy says Irsay said Dallas Clark.  Dungy said, with a chuckle, that he then told Irsay we should take Dallas Clark.  Hopefully that is an accurate recollection of the story.

 

I think the point is, especially at the draft, that it's very likely that Irsay, Grigson, Pagano, and the scouting staff, are ALL there making the decisions TOGETHER.  I am just totally dubious about these claims of Grigson unilaterally dictating who is drafted and who is signed as FAs, as so many here at the forum postulate.  Such postulations actually strike me as nonsensical, to be perfectly honest."

 

Again, seemingly nailed it.  So umm, what we're all the so called insiders saying?

<sticks tongue out><gloats>

 

I hope, very much, that Chuck and Grigson both evolve during their renewed stint.  Go Colts!

Very much agree.  Grigson will become a better GM with experience and Pagano as a HC as well.  Mr. Irsay is no dummy.  He has correctly surmised that if the pair has done so much as rookies, they might just have a little something going on upstairs.  That being said....on to the draft and improving.

[Defjamz26]

13 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

 

Did you read further into the article?  He said I compare the first 4 years to what we did in the past. And why not do that?  We had some very good teams under Polian and Peyton.  So if you need a measuring stick you certainly don't overlook that.  Especially when you were a part in bringing it all together.  He is basically saying in so many words "These guys are actually doing better than the previous era so I'd be a fool to fire them".  But of course I know you've had a pessimistic attitude this season so there's that.....

Why would he ever need to compare though? If both Grigson and Pagano are his guys he shouldn't need a measuring stick. In my experiences in life, justification by comparison is just hidden insecurity.

 

Who cares about how good they're doing compared to where the previous era was at this time? Doesn't mean squat. All that matters is objectively how they've performed now basis the GM's expectations.

 

It basically implies in so many words that "hey say what you want but they're doing better than what the last guys did 4 years in". That is a very belittling comment if you really think about it. It's not much different than people defending Luck's turnover issues by saying "well Peyton turned it over a lot when he was younger too".

[azcolt]

For all of Jim Irsay's bizarre behavior and addictions, just be glad he's his mother's son and not Bob Irsay, Jr. The guy has a big heart and that probably had a lot to do with the strange proceedings today. His daddy would have fired both guys and had a couple doubles to celebrate. For better or worse, Jim cares about people and all of his bluster about winning this year or else was obviously just hot air.

[krunk]

10 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Why would he ever need to compare though? If both Grigson and Pagano are his guys he shouldn't need a measuring stick. In my experiences in life, justification by comparison is just hidden insecurity.

 

Who cares about how good they're doing compared to where the previous era was at this time? Doesn't mean squat. All that matters is objectively how they've performed now basis the GM's expectations.

 

It basically implies in so many words that "hey say what you want but they're doing better than what the last guys did 4 years in". That is a very belittling comment if you really think about it. It's not much different than people defending Luck's turnover issues by saying "well Peyton turned it over a lot when he was younger too".

 

Every single football team in this league collects data from their previous successfull teams.  Why do you think teams like the Cowboys try to find the next Michael Irvin and Alvin Harper?  Is it any coincidence Dez Bryant looks similar and is built similar to Michael Irvin and Williams is similar to Alvin Harper.  Don't you think it's kind of crazy to have a team that won 3 to 4 Super Bowls and then say "Well we don't need to use that as a measuring stick!"    If you want to duplicate success you take data from when you were successful in the past.  Why would you leave that out of your evaluation process for success in the future?  

 

In similar fashion why would Irsay leave off all that success we had in the past.  Of course you're going to compare both experiences as a guide for your decision making.  Especially if you want to determine how close we are to duplicating or exceeding previous success.

[Patrick Miller]

I'm very disappointed to hear we are keeping pagano and especially grigson. So we can expect more of the same.....questionable/bad play calling.....questionable roster moves......questionable draft picks....ongoing issue with a bad oline...... We will continue to See our Colts barely win against bad to mediocre teams while getting blown out by elite teams. I wish i could get excited about next season.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

55 minutes ago, bap1331 said:

It feels like a fan and player victory bringing Pagano back, but Grigson was humiliated today not only by the fans but by Irsay himself mentioning there will be no more "bullying". A couple of months ago, it was mentioned that Grigson had a heated conversation with Irsay.

 

But lets put this into a perspective of people like us who works at an office 9 to 5 job. If your manager is a big meanie, would you be performing at top level at your job? You would probably purposely do whatever you can to ruin that other person's life....like your manager.

 

Lets say they give Pagano more control over who gets drafted. Pagano says, "lets draft this guy". Grigson will say, "NOPE! Let's get this guy". I say we still have an offseason to convince Irsay to fire Grigson before the draft. Im sure Pagano and his staff can do it all alone without a GM.

All we can do is speculate since the Indy media doesn't seem to have very reliable sources. I for one don't really buy all the "Grigson is an evil dictator" talk. As far as I can tell, the media blew that way out of proportion. If it was anywhere near as bad as they made it sound, Pagano wouldn't have even wanted the extension, he would've just taken an offer somewhere else and washed his hands of Irsay and Grigson. Not only were they dead wrong about that, but were wrong about Chuck getting fired today as well. They were certain of it, reports coming out about it all over the place. That's 2 HUGE Colts stories within 7 days, fed from "sources close to the team," that basically ended up being completely wrong.

[ThatOneColtFan]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

Irsay should feel embarrassed that he has to name drop just to give his GM props. Shows a lack of confidence to me when you have to defend by comparison. I expect fans and analysts to say those things but not an NFL owner.

 

That comment was just completely distasteful IMO. But Irsay seems to have a secret vendetta against Peyton and Polian for not winning more titles so that comment doesn't surprise me considering the "questionable " comments he made last year that seemed to throw shade at Polian.

 

And don't tell me I'm taking the quote out of context because I understand what he means. It's just not a comment he needed to make. Let Grigson stand on his own accomplishments if you're so confident on him. That comment actually put him down more than it put him up.

 

I didn't like the backhanded comment either, he does the same thing when wherever we face the Broncos, just let it go, ya know? As far as Polian goes, there is no comparison, Grigson still has yet to prove himself imo.  Both are completely different GMs, and I believe one of them built 6 SB teams. It just seemed like a ridiculous thing to say in light of what people expected to happen yesterday. 

[crazycolt1]

25 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

All we can do is speculate since the Indy media doesn't seem to have very reliable sources. I for one don't really buy all the "Grigson is an evil dictator" talk. As far as I can tell, the media blew that way out of proportion. If it was anywhere near as bad as they made it sound, Pagano wouldn't have even wanted the extension, he would've just taken an offer somewhere else and washed his hands of Irsay and Grigson. Not only were they dead wrong about that, but were wrong about Chuck getting fired today as well. They were certain of it, reports coming out about it all over the place. That's 2 HUGE Colts stories within 7 days, fed from "sources close to the team," that basically ended up being completely wrong.

The NFL announcer came out and said the riff between Chuck and Ryan was blown way out of perspective by the media. Way too many forum members bought into what the media was selling IMO. As it stand right now the Colts will have Chuck and Ryan the next four years. I for one am not going to cry and whine about who said this or who said that and move forward with my fandom. We have no choice but to wait and see no matter how things turn out.

[csmopar]

Called this one........

[jackinbox]

I wish internet message boards existed back when the Pacers drafted Reggie Miller over Steve Alford.  It would be fun to go back and read those posts.  This thread reminds me of all the armchair GMs back then who were calling into radio shows and writing letters to the Star proclaiming that the front office were a bunch of "*s".

 

I have faith in this team and look forward to us having a successful season next year.  

 

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

For those with twitter you gotta see Dan Dakich calling Kravitz and Holder out for getting this wrong. Its hilarious.

Dan Dakich show tomorrow is gonna be epic...