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5 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Then it doesn't count. That is what penalties do, they negate the play.

Well yes, but they also often fundamentally alter the play. For instance, an offensive lineman holding can open up a running lane that allows a long run. Without the hold, there may not have been a lane to use. So you can't count the run as "well he actually had another 30 yards rushing, but it got called back for a penalty." 

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Just some historical perspective as to whom we have under center right now......   Essentially broke all SEC Records set by Peyton Manning before graduating as a senior....   Draft

Yes, new to the Colts the day Philip signed. And enjoying every minute of it. Not only watching him with a vastly better team around him, but my time on this board, as well. It's been a lot of fun.

Well, Ryan is in a perfect position to get revenge for that.

29 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:


I’m not acting like a tough guy. If you dig back in the archives, the velocity is just part of the issue. Rivers has always had a knack for late game turnovers, especially last year. That issue happened again yesterday. Rivers has always been a gambler, as he loses velocity, those gambles get a lot more risky. We saw it yesterday with Brady, for example. He threw an out route that, 10 years ago, he probably completes. Instead, it was a pick 6. Rivers struggled at times in a game where he wasn’t sacked and didn’t face much pressure. It was also one of the worst defenses the Colts will face. That arm strength isn’t coming back, which isn’t good a combo with his penchant for throwing off of his back foot.

Oh you're one of those... someone who needs to bring up Brady in every thread.  I'm not digging back through the archives, I will take your word on it.  

 

I'm not a big Rivers fan but you do have to look at what Rivers was brought in for, he was brought in to keep the Colts competitive this year and if the chips fall just right maybe make a run in the playoffs.  But since he was not brought in to be a long term (4 or more years) solution at the QB spot, so what.  His velocity yesterday was fine, his decision making a couple of times he needs to work on, but a lot of that will come with learning what receivers do in certain situations and he will only learn that during the games.

 

I'm not sure why people expected Rivers to come in and work with a brand new team as if he had been playing with them for years.  For example, on his 2nd INT he thought Campbell was going to run through the route.  Campbell thought he was going to through it back towards the interior of the field.  Bad decision on Rivers parts because he was staring down campbell until he thought he knew where he was going.  But in his entire career, no one has accused Rivers of being a QB that stares down his receiver, so it's not indicative of Rivers as a QB and we will see mistakes like that less often as the season goes on.  At least that is the hope, if he keeps making those same mistakes then the Colts won't entertain signing him after the season is over.

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4 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

Well yes, but they also often fundamentally alter the play. For instance, an offensive lineman holding can open up a running lane that allows a long run. Without the hold, there may not have been a lane to use. So you can't count the run as "well he actually had another 30 yards rushing, but it got called back for a penalty." 

And a DB holding may prevent a WR from being open and prevent the QB from throwing to him forcing him to throw the ball somewhere else.

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32 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:


Again, I don’t think the loss is on Rivers. I think there is enough accountability to go around, but Rivers is far from the savior people predicted he would be. That’s been my point.

I dint recall people saying he was the savior.  I recall people saying he was an improvement.

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18 minutes ago, Myles said:

I dint recall people saying he was the savior.  I recall people saying he was an improvement.

I was probably the person here who was most in favor of bringing in Rivers before FA started. I never thought he's the savior. My idea for his role with this team was for him to be a caretaker/bridge QB/mentor for a young QB we were going to draft high in the draft. We didn't do that last part, but it's possible Eason assumes that role of our potential future QB. My expectation for Rivers was to be an upgrade over Brissett while we are training and developing our QB of the future, so we could still be competitive in the meantime. 

 

I, too, can't remember many/any people thinking of him as a 'savior' 

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3 minutes ago, stitches said:

I was probably the person here who was most in favor of bringing in Rivers before FA started. I never thought he's the savior. My idea for his role with this team was for him to be a caretaker/bridge QB/mentor for a young QB we were going to draft high in the draft. We didn't do that last part, but it's possible Eason assumes that role of our potential future QB. My expectation for Rivers was to be an upgrade over Brissett while we are training and developing our QB of the future. 

 

I, too, can't remember many/any people thinking of him as a 'savior' 

Yeah I also said he was just an upgrade over JB (no savior) and with our Line and running game that Rivers would be good. I don't think anyone thought he would come here and be Andrew Luck right off the bat. I didn't but I am shocked we lost yesterday. 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I also said he was just an upgrade over JB (no savior) and with our Line and running game that Rivers would be good. I don't think anyone thought he would come here and be Andrew Luck right off the bat. I didn't but I am shocked we lost yesterday. 

I'm not. and I really never understood why everyone wanted to give the colts the win before the game. our history with the Jags alone show they tend to really rise up when playing us. combine that with our opening day curse, I was nervous all week. And to top it off, we lost Mack in the process. 

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Just now, csmopar said:

I'm not. and I really never understood why everyone wanted to give the colts the win before the game. our history with the Jags alone show they tend to really rise up when playing us. combine that with our opening day curse, I was nervous all week. And to top it off, we lost Mack in the process. 

I get we typically lose on opening day and struggle at Jacks but I am still a little shocked we lost. Jacks was looked at as the worse team in the league by many.

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27 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Oh you're one of those... someone who needs to bring up Brady in every thread.  I'm not digging back through the archives, I will take your word on it.  

 

I'm not a big Rivers fan but you do have to look at what Rivers was brought in for, he was brought in to keep the Colts competitive this year and if the chips fall just right maybe make a run in the playoffs.  But since he was not brought in to be a long term (4 or more years) solution at the QB spot, so what.  His velocity yesterday was fine, his decision making a couple of times he needs to work on, but a lot of that will come with learning what receivers do in certain situations and he will only learn that during the games.

 

I'm not sure why people expected Rivers to come in and work with a brand new team as if he had been playing with them for years.  For example, on his 2nd INT he thought Campbell was going to run through the route.  Campbell thought he was going to through it back towards the interior of the field.  Bad decision on Rivers parts because he was staring down campbell until he thought he knew where he was going.  But in his entire career, no one has accused Rivers of being a QB that stares down his receiver, so it's not indicative of Rivers as a QB and we will see mistakes like that less often as the season goes on.  At least that is the hope, if he keeps making those same mistakes then the Colts won't entertain signing him after the season is over.


I only referenced Brady because someone else had mentioned it in a previous response, I was using it as a comparison. As far as the velocity goes, it’s still a noticeable drop off from 2018 and I’m far from the only person to point it out. Pretty much every other national writer has at some point as well. Like I said, we will see how the season goes. In the 4 games Rivers had 45+ pass attempts he had 8 INT’s last year. I expect more of the same, him throwing 40+ times is not a recipe for success. A lot of blame to go around for the loss, and we’ll see how the Rivers experiment ends up. If he has 20+ picks again it’ll be a failure.

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29 minutes ago, Myles said:

I dint recall people saying he was the savior.  I recall people saying he was an improvement.


I had people telling me he was a Top 5, Top 10 QB at worst. He might not even be an improvement, time will tell. Ballard couldn’t roll Jacoby back out there though, so I get why they signed him. Never understood the enthusiasm though, especially the 12 win crowd.

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Just now, Grigson's Gaffes said:


I had people telling me he was a Top 5, Top 10 QB at worst. He might not even be an improvement, time will tell. Ballard couldn’t roll Jacoby back out there though, so I get why they signed him. Never understood the enthusiasm though, especially the 12 win crowd.

FWIW I had top 15 and he still can be that.

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4 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Rivers INTs were bad plays no doubt about it.  But if someone looks at the 2 INTs as the reason the Colts lost the game are completely ignoring that somehow the Colts defense allow a mediocre QB like Minshew go 19 of 20 for 3 TDs.

 

I'm not excusing Rivers, his INTs and 3rd down completion percentage need to get better, especially in the 4th quarter.  But the defense was more embarrassing than a QB throwing 2 INTs.

 

Let's look at the numbers. (Please consider the rosters of both opponents)

2019 Colts vs Chargers  | J. Brissett 21-27,  190 YDS, 2 TD (2 sacks), 0 INTs, 60.5 QBR

2020 Colts vs Jags | P.Rivers            36-46, 363 YDS, 1 TD (0 sacks), 2 INTs, 56.3 QBR

 

Rivers absolutely was the reason we lost. 

2019 Colts vs Chargers | A.Vinatieri               1/3 FG, 1/2 XP

2020 Colts vs Jags | Blankership (Goggles) 2/3 FG, 2/2 XP

 

Final Score

2019 Colts vs Chargers  24 - 30

2020 Colts vs Jags         20 - 27

 

Lets get this straight, JB is not Brees, Mahomes, Jackson, maybe not even Cousins. But after the 2019 lost, NO ONE called out AV and said it was because of AV missing 2 FGs is why the Colts lost by 6 Pt s(2 FGs). Instead they called out JB. Who didn't turn the ball over once. So how come is it not Rivers fault why the Colts lost after throwing 2 INTs, and the Oline not giving up 1 sack? Minus Calais Campbell, Yannick Ngakoue, or even Jalen Ramsey?

 

Im not attacking anyone but it sure seems that JB had one short leash considering he found out that he would become the starting QB on the sideline of a preseason game :headspin:

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7 minutes ago, Mr_486lo said:

This loss is on Rivers and the play calling. We could have ran the ball down their throats but instead we throw the ball almost 50 times....I just dont understand it. 

 

 

It’s on the team.  You aren’t going to win in the NFL or really any football game if you let the other team complete 95% of his passes vs you.  The offense has their share too but this isn’t one of those things that you can look at one particular part and go it’s all on that.  Lots went wrong yesterday.

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41 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

Let's look at the numbers. (Please consider the rosters of both opponents)

2019 Colts vs Chargers  | J. Brissett 21-27,  190 YDS, 2 TD (2 sacks), 0 INTs, 60.5 QBR

2020 Colts vs Jags | P.Rivers            36-46, 363 YDS, 1 TD (0 sacks), 2 INTs, 56.3 QBR

 

Rivers absolutely was the reason we lost. 

2019 Colts vs Chargers | A.Vinatieri               1/3 FG, 1/2 XP

2020 Colts vs Jags | Blankership (Goggles) 2/3 FG, 2/2 XP

 

Final Score

2019 Colts vs Chargers  24 - 30

2020 Colts vs Jags         20 - 27

 

Lets get this straight, JB is not Brees, Mahomes, Jackson, maybe not even Cousins. But after the 2019 lost, NO ONE called out AV and said it was because of AV missing 2 FGs is why the Colts lost by 6 Pt s(2 FGs). Instead they called out JB. Who didn't turn the ball over once. So how come is it not Rivers fault why the Colts lost after throwing 2 INTs, and the Oline not giving up 1 sack? Minus Calais Campbell, Yannick Ngakoue, or even Jalen Ramsey?

 

Im not attacking anyone but it sure seems that JB had one short leash considering he found out that he would become the starting QB on the sideline of a preseason game :headspin:

You obviously were not paying attention last year then. Half this forum was ready to cut AV after game 1 last season and most were very supportive of JB at that time. 

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

We need a mic drop emoji!

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34 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

It’s on the team.  You aren’t going to win in the NFL or really any football game if you let the other team complete 95% of his passes vs you.  The offense has their share too but this isn’t one of those things that you can look at one particular part and go it’s all on that.  Lots went wrong yesterday.

Yep, Rivers had nothing to do with the defense.  Nothing to do with Hilton dropping 2 crucial passes.  Nothing to do with running our smallest RB up the gut on 4th and 1.   Nothing to do with mack getting injured.  Nothing to do with the kicker missing a kick.  

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2 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:


I had people telling me he was a Top 5, Top 10 QB at worst. He might not even be an improvement, time will tell. Ballard couldn’t roll Jacoby back out there though, so I get why they signed him. Never understood the enthusiasm though, especially the 12 win crowd.

People said he was top 5, top 10 in 2018. No one said that he was top 5, top 10 to start the 2020 season. 
 

We thought that with a great running game and offensive line around him, there was a chance he could return to 2018 form. 
 

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I wasn't happy yesterday with Rivers' velocity on his ball.  I'll admit that.

 

But there at the end of the game, in spite of it all, homey was putting that ball on the money where it needed to be but guys around him couldn't finish.

 

What they need to do is two things, neither of which have anything to do with Rivers...

 

1. Get Taylor rolling in the backfield.  He's gonna be a guy who changes this offense for the better.

 

2. Get their defense figured out.  

 

Do those two things and everything is gonna work out.  And oh by the way gonna give Jax some cred.  Sometimes the other team makes plays too.

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50 minutes ago, Bolts2Colts said:

People said he was top 5, top 10 in 2018. No one said that he was top 5, top 10 to start the 2020 season. 
 

We thought that with a great running game and offensive line around him, there was a chance he could return to 2018 form. 
 


And that is going to prove to be false hope.

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7 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Rivers isn’t as good as Manning and Luck. He can’t throw int like he did because he isn’t going to put the points up like the other two dId. Especially at his age.  

Philip Rivers is 38 - on December 8th of last year (his 38th birthday) he put up 38 points against this team and then sat for the 4th Quarter, and his backup Tyrod Taylor also threw a TD pass for the 45-10 final score.

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6 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

But just last year, first game of the season, Colts lose to Rivers and Chargers by 3 points. Did you blame AV for missing FGs or did you call out JB? Same thing with Pittsburgh game where JB gets hurt. So why not Rivers? Have a great season. Just be consistent with your POV.

Week 1 of last season, the Chargers beat the Colts with a touchdown on the 1st possession of overtime.

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7 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:


That Kermit post was just good, clean fun. I’ll admit when I’m wrong and hold others accountable when they’re wrong. I’m not playing the victim, I’m standing up for myself.

Oh, snap! You've been Awarded least sincere post of the day for the bolded!

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14 hours ago, DownHillRunner said:

Rivers did something yesterday that Brissett couldn't do last season. He threw for almost 400 yards and had a 78.3 completion percentage. It wasn't his fault we lost yesterday. 

Not entirely sure i agree with this assessment.

 

The defense is very largely to blame, but Rivers threw 3 picks (1 was called back but it was an out and out interception as the defensive penalty wasnt near the ball... he got lucky there to not have a 3rd INT on the stat sheet). Any time you turn the ball over like that, you are taking potential points off your board and adding it to the opposing team. They were bad picks too where he forced it when he really didnt need to. 

 

After hearing all off-season that Rivers' turnover troubles last year might have been attributed to his bad O-line play, and he should have it fixed this year under less pressure, i was feeling confident about this season. Our first drive of the game was great too... we pushed the ball downfield at will.... But then 2019 Rivers surfaced. I am very very worried about our prospects for the season now if Rivers keeps going back to his "I'm just gonna heave this downfield and f*ck it, whatever happens, happens" mentality.

 

It was 1 game. after a strange off-season with no preseason etc and he is on a new team with new WRs.... i get it.... need to see more to make any real judgement. But put me down as "concerned" at this point in time.

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15 hours ago, Boondoggle said:

I wasn't happy yesterday with Rivers' velocity on his ball.  I'll admit that.

 

But there at the end of the game, in spite of it all, homey was putting that ball on the money where it needed to be but guys around him couldn't finish.

 

What they need to do is two things, neither of which have anything to do with Rivers...

 

1. Get Taylor rolling in the backfield.  He's gonna be a guy who changes this offense for the better.

 

2. Get their defense figured out.  

 

Do those two things and everything is gonna work out.  And oh by the way gonna give Jax some cred.  Sometimes the other team makes plays too.

One of the better posts I have seen since Sunday.

 

Folks can keep using the arguments that the Jags are the worse team in the NFL, and that their QB is trash, but saying it over and over...doesn't always make it so. 

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Maybe, just maybe Minshew isn't that bad. We'll find out more about him next week vs. the Titans. Next week will be a major tell for a lot of teams, ours included. Week 1 could almost be written off as a preseason game. This weekend is where the real stuff is going to happen. 

 

Can the coaches make adjustments. Can we learn from mistakes? While Rivers didn't get sacked, he was definitely bumped around and pressured. I'd like to see our line give him more time and see if we can take shots down the field. And finally, our defense has got to show up in the passing game. 

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20 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Then it doesn't count. That is what penalties do, they negate the play.

Of course it does not count on paper but the fact is he threw three INTs and that says something about his talent.

Philip Rivers – Cast off by the Los Angeles Chargers after 16 seasons, Rivers is starting over in Indianapolis, where the Colts are counting on him to make them contenders. But on Sunday, the 39-year-old quarterback displayed some of the same struggles that led the Chargers to move on from him, and Indianapolis fell 27-20 to the hapless Jacksonville Jaguars. Rivers completed 36 of 46 passes for 363 yards. But he threw two interceptions and only one touchdown pass. A third interception was called back because of a penalty. In the second half, Indianapolis mustered only three points. And for the game, Rivers and the Colts converted only four of 12 third-down attempts and were 2-for-5 inside the red zone. 

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14 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Of course it does not count on paper but the fact is he threw three INTs and that says something about his talent.

Philip Rivers – Cast off by the Los Angeles Chargers after 16 seasons, Rivers is starting over in Indianapolis, where the Colts are counting on him to make them contenders. But on Sunday, the 39-year-old quarterback displayed some of the same struggles that led the Chargers to move on from him, and Indianapolis fell 27-20 to the hapless Jacksonville Jaguars. Rivers completed 36 of 46 passes for 363 yards. But he threw two interceptions and only one touchdown pass. A third interception was called back because of a penalty. In the second half, Indianapolis mustered only three points. And for the game, Rivers and the Colts converted only four of 12 third-down attempts and were 2-for-5 inside the red zone. 

River throwing 3 picks does not say anything about his talent. 

Manning threw 6 interceptions in one game in 2007. (Chargers) 

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Rivers shouldn't have had to throw 46 times. Reich abandoned the run game. Rivers wasn't brought here to carry the team like Luck was. He was brought here to hand the ball off and throw the ball when needed. His receivers also didn't show up besides Campbell. Hilton was a huge no show. 2 HUGE drops on the final possession. Both were pretty good passes too right to the sideline. Hilton just dropped both. Rivers looked pretty damn good besides those 2 picks. Brady threw a pick 6 and another awful INT and I don't hear people saying that % about him.

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1 hour ago, King Colt said:

Of course it does not count on paper but the fact is he threw three INTs and that says something about his talent.

Philip Rivers – Cast off by the Los Angeles Chargers after 16 seasons, Rivers is starting over in Indianapolis, where the Colts are counting on him to make them contenders. But on Sunday, the 39-year-old quarterback displayed some of the same struggles that led the Chargers to move on from him, and Indianapolis fell 27-20 to the hapless Jacksonville Jaguars. Rivers completed 36 of 46 passes for 363 yards. But he threw two interceptions and only one touchdown pass. A third interception was called back because of a penalty. In the second half, Indianapolis mustered only three points. And for the game, Rivers and the Colts converted only four of 12 third-down attempts and were 2-for-5 inside the red zone. 

No, the fact is he two INTs and may have thrown a 3rd if not for a penalty.

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4 hours ago, landrus13 said:

Rivers shouldn't have had to throw 46 times. Reich abandoned the run game. Rivers wasn't brought here to carry the team like Luck was. He was brought here to hand the ball off and throw the ball when needed. His receivers also didn't show up besides Campbell. Hilton was a huge no show. 2 HUGE drops on the final possession. Both were pretty good passes too right to the sideline. Hilton just dropped both. Rivers looked pretty damn good besides those 2 picks. Brady threw a pick 6 and another awful INT and I don't hear people saying that % about him.

Yeah, 46 pass attempts are too many. 

You look at the numbers and there is no way the Colts should have lost this game.

 

445 to 241 yards for the Colts

357 to 150 passing yards for the Colts

90 to 50 return yards for the Colts

6.4 to 5.1 yards per play for the Colts

69 to 47 total plays for the Colts

33 min to 26 min time of possession for the Colts

27 to 17 first downs for the Colts

 

IMO we should have kicked the field goal and went up 10-0. It gave Jax too much momentum. 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yeah, 46 pass attempts are too many. 

You look at the numbers and there is no way the Colts should have lost this game.

 

445 to 241 yards for the Colts

357 to 150 passing yards for the Colts

90 to 50 return yards for the Colts

6.4 to 5.1 yards per play for the Colts

69 to 47 total plays for the Colts

33 min to 26 min time of possession for the Colts

27 to 17 first downs for the Colts

 

IMO we should have kicked the field goal and went up 10-0. It gave Jax too much momentum. 

 

 

All those great stats & unfortunately it was turnovers (interceptions & on downs) & points (or lack thereof on our part) off those turnovers that ultimately decided the game. 

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On 9/14/2020 at 3:56 PM, stitches said:

I was probably the person here who was most in favor of bringing in Rivers before FA started. I never thought he's the savior. My idea for his role with this team was for him to be a caretaker/bridge QB/mentor for a young QB we were going to draft high in the draft. We didn't do that last part, but it's possible Eason assumes that role of our potential future QB. My expectation for Rivers was to be an upgrade over Brissett while we are training and developing our QB of the future, so we could still be competitive in the meantime. 

 

I, too, can't remember many/any people thinking of him as a 'savior' 

I  did not know what we would be getting in Rivers.  One thing I was not expecting was him throwing 40+ times a game. He throws it that much and he is going to throw some pics.

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23 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I  did not know what we would be getting in Rivers.  One thing I was not expecting was him throwing 40+ times a game. He throws it that much and he is going to throw some pics.

I'm hoping as the season goes on he only throws it 30× but I know that won't happen. 

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3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yeah, 46 pass attempts are too many. 

You look at the numbers and there is no way the Colts should have lost this game.

 

445 to 241 yards for the Colts

357 to 150 passing yards for the Colts

90 to 50 return yards for the Colts

6.4 to 5.1 yards per play for the Colts

69 to 47 total plays for the Colts

33 min to 26 min time of possession for the Colts

27 to 17 first downs for the Colts

 

IMO we should have kicked the field goal and went up 10-0. It gave Jax too much momentum. 

 

 

This is a great example where sometimes stats doesn't mean anything. Looking at that stat line one would've thought we won by 14 or so points. The W is all that counts and they got it.

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