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1 minute ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I got here late. No need to go back youve cleared things up. In all honesty, I'm personally excited because just how good the rest of this team is. 

 

If you think Rivers is the same as Brissett then by all means I get it, but the colts don't need someone to be that much better than him IMO. 

 

The kicking game is also better after signing a kicker who has one of the best kicking records. 

 

It just "seems" that it's all coming together, and I think that's worth being excited about. 

 

I agree with what you're saying. I get why they did what they did, but I think the version of Rivers this year is going to be much more game manager than gunslinger, which apparently has made other users here irate. The kicking upgrade and DeForest Buckner are more important than anything Rivers brings to the table.

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Just some historical perspective as to whom we have under center right now......   Essentially broke all SEC Records set by Peyton Manning before graduating as a senior....   Draft

Yes, new to the Colts the day Philip signed. And enjoying every minute of it. Not only watching him with a vastly better team around him, but my time on this board, as well. It's been a lot of fun.

Well, Ryan is in a perfect position to get revenge for that.

2 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

I agree with what you're saying. I get why they did what they did, but I think the version of Rivers this year is going to be much more game manager than gunslinger, which apparently has made other users here irate. The kicking upgrade and DeForest Buckner are more important than anything Rivers brings to the table.

 

Upgrading our K is more important than upgrading the QB?  You're a lunatic.

 

4 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

The quality of the offensive line is much more important in RB production than the RB's talent. They're not an equal weight system.

 

Yea, and Rivers has a much better OL here than he has had in a long time (probably ever) in SD.  It'll help him both by improving the running game in his offense and by giving him actual time to throw.  And we have better WRs than he had last year as a whole (excluding Keenan Allen, SD's WR corps was a joke last year).

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10 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Upgrading our K is more important than upgrading the QB?  You're a lunatic.

 

 

Yea, and Rivers has a much better OL here than he has had in a long time (probably ever) in SD.  It'll help him both by improving the running game in his offense and by giving him actual time to throw.  And we have better WRs than he had last year as a whole (excluding Keenan Allen, SD's WR corps was a joke last year).

 

He said that Buckner and the Kicker was a bigger upgrade in essence. Not that the QB position was less important... I think you need to stop with the personal insults and take a step back and drink some kool-aid, and be happy you're a Colts fan. This is the best team we have had on this roster since 2005 overall talent wise. 

 

Who cares if Grigson isn't the biggest fan of Rivers? Oof. 

 

Also, don't forget, when the Colts signed Booger in 2006, the Colts won the SB. So the Buckner signing could be argued to be more important than the QB, considering no SB wins before or after Booger McFarland 

 

Also, Manning didn't win another SB until he had a great defense (Denver).

 

So maybe, just maybe, that defensive signing (Buckner) was and is more important than the QB position. 

 

This is coming from someone who thinks Peyton was the GOAT. 

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4 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Upgrading our K is more important than upgrading the QB?  You're a lunatic.

 

 

Yea, and Rivers has a much better OL here than he has had in a long time (probably ever) in SD.  It'll help him both by improving the running game in his offense and by giving him actual time to throw.  And we have better WRs than he had last year as a whole (excluding Keenan Allen, SD's WR corps was a joke last year).

 

Adam Vinatieri made 68% of his kicks last year...you improve that to league average of 83% and the Colts make the playoffs. If you're taking #1 WR's out of it, who do the Colts have that is better than Mike Williams? The Colts also don't have a RB who is going to catch 92 passes this year.

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3 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

The quality of the offensive line is much more important in RB production than the RB's talent. They're not an equal weight system.

Fact is, our running game in Indy was better than LAC's last year, and will be this year as well. If you look at what you said originally, you're trying to dance around the topic. At the end of the day, Rivers is in a much better position this year, than last. And one big thing you need to consider, our running game was keyed on by Ds last year a lot more than LAC's.

 

And I think both Mack and Taylor are as good Eckler. Gordon is gone from LAC, but I'll take Taylor over Gordon (both Wiscy boys). Gordon's only been over 4.0 ypc one year. I think most would take Taylor/Mack/Hines over Gordon/Eckler/Jackson too. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

Adam Vinatieri made 68% of his kicks last year...you improve that to league average of 83% and the Colts make the playoffs. If you're taking #1 WR's out of it, who do the Colts have that is better than Mike Williams? The Colts also don't have a RB who is going to catch 92 passes this year.

 

Mike Williams has never had over 50 catches in a season in his career while playing with a future HOF QB.  I think Pittman, Pascal and Campbell are all as talented or more talented than he is and all 3 of them are far more talented than the crop of WRs after Williams on the SD roster.

 

And yea, Vinny cost us 2-3 games last year and 6 of our 9 losses were by 1 score or less.  Two of our 7 wins were by 1 score or less.  Perhaps improved QB play will make it so we're not relying on a game winning field goal.  

 

And who cares if we don't have a RB who will have 92 catches.  We have more talent overall on our offense and Rivers can spread the ball out.  Plus, we had 700 more yards rushing than the Chargers did last year and will have a better running game this year.  Meaning Rivers won't have to rely on a RB having 92 catches, he can hand the ball off and get the same return.

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16 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

He said that Buckner and the Kicker was a bigger upgrade in essence. Not that the QB position was less important... I think you need to stop with the personal insults and take a step back and drink some kool-aid, and be happy you're a Colts fan. This is the best team we have had on this roster since 2005 overall talent wise. 

 

Who cares if Grigson isn't the biggest fan of Rivers? Oof. 

 

Also, don't forget, when the Colts signed Booger in 2006, the Colts won the SB. So the Buckner signing could be argued to be more important than the QB, considering no SB wins before or after Booger McFarland 

 

Also, Manning didn't win another SB until he had a great defense (Denver).

 

So maybe, just maybe, that defensive signing (Buckner) was and is more important than the QB position. 

 

This is coming from someone who thinks Peyton was the GOAT. 

Colts didn’t sign BM they traded a draft pick for him

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14 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

1) He played in the ACC at NC State.

2) A majority of his career his HC was Marty Schottenheimer or Norv Turner, both highly regarded in the NFL. Turner has been known as one of the best offensive minds around the league for quite some time. They had a Top 5 offense in terms of yards every year Turner was in SD except for his last.

3) Eason won't be the long term answer here. Also, the Colts won't throw the ball 600 times this year like Rivers

did last year.

 

Rivers has had a great career but it's been diminishing returns for the last couple years. I get why they brought him in, but he isn't going to single handily beat teams.

No one single handedly beats teams.

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12 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

Adam Vinatieri made 68% of his kicks last year...you improve that to league average of 83% and the Colts make the playoffs. If you're taking #1 WR's out of it, who do the Colts have that is better than Mike Williams? The Colts also don't have a RB who is going to catch 92 passes this year.

Doesn't matter about AV. Had we made the playoffs, we weren't going far. We didn't have the passing O, or passing D to make a run.

 

I think you're reaching here on the pass catchers. Rivers will make Indy's RBs look as good catching, as LAC's RBs last year. In Hine's rookie year, he caught 60+ passes. He'll do fine with Rivers. And the Colts likely won't need a RB to catch 92 passes like LAC did. Had LAC's OL given Rivers more time, he likely wouldn't have checked to RBs near that much.

 

 At TE, Doyle is as good as or better than Henry. LAC only had 2 WRs over 150 yards last year. They had Allen and Williams. A healthy TY/Campbell/Pittman will likely have more combined yards than those two did last. 

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I don't care about any of this stuff. Like with all things, whatever actually happens will determine the results in the end, and people will either like them for their own reasons, or dislike them for their own reasons. The same as with everything else in life.

 

My only concern in this entire thread is - can the thread creator edit Philip's name so that it is spelled correctly? That's ONE L. Thank you :D.

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52 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Mike Williams has never had over 50 catches in a season in his career while playing with a future HOF QB.  I think Pittman, Pascal and Campbell are all as talented or more talented than he is and all 3 of them are far more talented than the crop of WRs after Williams on the SD roster.

 

And yea, Vinny cost us 2-3 games last year and 6 of our 9 losses were by 1 score or less.  Two of our 7 wins were by 1 score or less.  Perhaps improved QB play will make it so we're not relying on a game winning field goal.  

 

And who cares if we don't have a RB who will have 92 catches.  We have more talent overall on our offense and Rivers can spread the ball out.  Plus, we had 700 more yards rushing than the Chargers did last year and will have a better running game this year.  Meaning Rivers won't have to rely on a RB having 92 catches, he can hand the ball off and get the same return.

 

If you think Pascal, Pittman or Campbell have done anything on the field to be deemed as talented as Mike Williams, I can't help you. He had 10 TD's in his second season and 1000 yds on just 49 catches last year. A majority of NFL games are going to be decided by one score or less. Not having a consistent kicking game is an achilles heal. Again, I don't think it's farfetched that Rivers is an upgrade, but to pretend he is going to come in and carve people up like he's a Top 5 QB is baffling.

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12 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

If you think Pascal, Pittman or Campbell have done anything on the field to be deemed as talented as Mike Williams, I can't help you. He had 10 TD's in his second season and 1000 yds on just 49 catches last year. 

Did you forget that he had those numbers with Rivers throwing him the ball.   THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.  

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4 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

If you think Pascal, Pittman or Campbell have done anything on the field to be deemed as talented as Mike Williams, I can't help you. He had 10 TD's in his second season and 1000 yds on just 49 catches last year. A majority of NFL games are going to be decided by one score or less. Not having a consistent kicking game is an achilles heal. Again, I don't think it's farfetched that Rivers is an upgrade, but to pretend he is going to come in and carve people up like he's a Top 5 QB is baffling.

Point is, the supporting cast in Indy overall is better than LAC's. He'll have more time, hit less, etc. He won't be relied upon as much because he'll have a better running game. 

 

What is kinda funny is that one of the comps I saw for Pittman, was Mike Williams lol. Same height and speed profile. Similar college production. 

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2 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

If you think Pascal, Pittman or Campbell have done anything on the field to be deemed as talented as Mike Williams, I can't help you. He had 10 TD's in his second season and 1000 yds on just 49 catches last year. A majority of NFL games are going to be decided by one score or less. Not having a consistent kicking game is an achilles heal. Again, I don't think it's farfetched that Rivers is an upgrade, but to pretend he is going to come in and carve people up like he's a Top 5 QB is baffling.

 

Never once said anything about Rivers being top 5, are you still on the drugs you were on at 2:30 AM or are you not aware that you're making stuff up?

 

Mike Williams had 0 TDs as a rookie and 2 TDs last year.  Based on his small career, 10 TDs in one season is an anomaly.

 

He's had a future HOF QB who's still playing at a high level throwing to him and he didn't catch half the balls thrown his way last year when Rivers was completing 2/3 of his pass attempts.  You're right, we haven't seen anything from Pittman on the field in the NFL because he's a rookie.  He had a more productive college career than Williams and their measurables are almost identical (Pittman's slightly taller, slightly faster and can jump higher while Williams did 15 reps of 225 compared to Pittman).  There's no reason to think Pittman doesn't possess similar talent to Williams.  

 

Campbell was hurt most of last year.. but he showed enough flashes to see he can be a special player in this league.  He's significantly faster and more agile than Williams and seemingly has good hands.  He had a more productive rookie campaign statistically than Williams did, even though he played less games.  He is also versatile and can be used as a running threat.

 

Pascal had more TDs than Williams last year and only 8 less catches.  He also caught more balls coming his way than Williams last year.  Sure, he had a 14.8 ypc average compared to Williams' 20.4 ypc but he also didn't have a HOF caliber QB throwing to him and our offense took very few shots downfield last year anyway.  Additionally, he was playing without TY or with an injured TY for a good chunk of the season whereas Williams had Keenan Allen drawing top coverage for the entire season.  

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Myles said:

Did you forget that he had those numbers with Rivers throwing him the ball.   THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.  

 

You want to place a bet that neither of those 3 guys have 1000 yds or 10 TD's this year with Rivers?

22 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Point is, the supporting cast in Indy overall is better than LAC's. He'll have more time, hit less, etc. He won't be relied upon as much because he'll have a better running game. 

 

What is kinda funny is that one of the comps I saw for Pittman, was Mike Williams lol. Same height and speed profile. Similar college production. 

 

50+ rec's for Pittman this year would be solid production for a rookie WR.

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4 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

You want to place a bet that neither of those 3 guys have 1000 yds or 10 TD's this year with Rivers?

 

50+ rec's for Pittman this year would be solid production for a rookie WR.

I'll bet you that "WRs" in general, have more yardage this year in Indy, than they did last year in LA.

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'll bet you that "WRs" in general, have more yardage this year in Indy, than they did last year in LA.

 

If you're saying that the WR group will have more receiving yards this year in Indy than the WR's in LA, I will say that is probably so. I don't see the RB group here in Indy accounting for 134 catches and roughly 1300 yds...Rivers won't throw for 4600+ yards here in Indy though.

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A lot of good points made by many in here. I am one that thinks that Rivers will have a good year and take advantage of having a great O.Line. His O.Line stunk last year. We do need our WR core to stay healthy as well but maybe they will. Our running game should be top 5 which should help Rivers cut down on the turnovers. He won't have to force as much. Look for Hines to have a big year receiving, Rivers likes to dump off to his RB's. I think Mack, Taylor, and Hines all will see significant playing time. That is a good trio.

 

As far as Drew Brees being in the GOAT convo, I don't see it. He has never even been the best QB in his era. Brady and Peyton were better in their primes and I would take Rodgers over Brees as well. Brees has never won a League MVP which is a definite glare on a resume. Rodgers has even won 2 League MVP's and has the same amount of SB's as Brees = 1. The year Brees won the SB in 2009, Peyton was still the better QB, their team just beat us. Brees is a top a 10 QB of all-time I can buy that because he is the all-time leader in yards and has won a SB. Even last year Mahomes was better than Brees.

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6 minutes ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

If you're saying that the WR group will have more receiving yards this year in Indy than the WR's in LA, I will say that is probably so. I don't see the RB group here in Indy accounting for 134 catches and roughly 1300 yds...Rivers won't throw for 4600+ yards here in Indy though.

IMO, our O will have more total yards (than LAC last year), but Rivers will have less than last year, and our running game will have more. We'll have great balance. Our RBs will have more passing yards than Indy did last year though. 

 

I don't want River's to have 4600 yards (unless our running game is off the charts too) this year. I want a top 5ish total O, with great balance.

 

And let's be honest, Eckler pretty much became River's 3rd WR last year with the lack of other WR options combined with poor OL requiring a lot of safety valve plays. Rivers won't have those two issues this year.

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Zak Keefer wrote today that Rivers has easily been the most consistent of the Colts QBs and that his release is quick and “exceptionally accurate.”  EXCEPTIONAL. That is our QB. Embrace it. 
 

To those of you who claim that Chargers receivers are so much better, they’ve already cut last years WR3.  Rivers never had a serviceable WR3 last year. 
 

And to those of you who wonder why they cut Rivers, one reason is that Lynn questioned Rivers’ focus last year.  Rivers had been commuting 6 hours per day, playing in a stadium full of opposing fans, and I think he knew it would be his last season. He’s said in interviews that he and Tiffany were “just done with” SoCal.  He was not the same player or person that he will be this season. 
 

As Justin Houston warned, he’s gonna shock a lot of people this year. 

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8 hours ago, Trumpet_Man said:

Hello Colts fans from a long time and well known Chargers fan since 1960.

Your team will not be disappointed since Rivers will FINALLY have and O-Line worth a damn. I am not sure why the Chargers always seems to crap the sheets for decades getting a complete O-Line. Rivers is a warrior who talks trash without ever using swear words.

 

As a crapped-on off Chargers fan since the relocation and Oceanside native, I am forced to wonder who I root for in an AFC Championship between the Colts and the Chargers (yeah I am that * off since the relocation). My wife will root for the Colts (ouch) and I am sitting on the fence if the grudge match AFC Championship game comes to fruition. As of this date I have to say I would not be that "butt hurt" if the Colts win it all taking the Chargers out in the process BUT this may change. This Covid-19 madness can make a Bolt brother go crazy.

 

Signed

 

A *Off Chargers fan 

Trumpet_Man its me PR#1 !!!!

 

Welcome to the board !!!!

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On 8/18/2020 at 2:17 PM, PrideOfAthens17 said:

I don't care about any of this stuff. Like with all things, whatever actually happens will determine the results in the end, and people will either like them for their own reasons, or dislike them for their own reasons. The same as with everything else in life.

 

My only concern in this entire thread is - can the thread creator edit Philip's name so that it is spelled correctly? That's ONE L. Thank you :D.

I was about to point that out after reading all the posts here,  PHILIP, ONE L lol!  

 

I came to the board today after seeing the Rivers' miked up video the Colts put out on Twitter.  Phil looked sharp.  His release was really quick and the throws I saw were really clean and on target.  Not at game speed or under physical threat of course, but looking good anyway.  Almost brought a tear to my eye, I forget he's gone then it's such a jolt to see him in a Colt's uni.

 

You guys are going to get to know what an amazing man Rivers is.  He's one of a kind.  Selfless.  Humble.  Confident but not cocky.  Total team guy.  Bad game, he'll tell the world it's on him.  Great game, "Heck, the guys did all the work, they made it easy."

 

Philip watched the awful situation with LaDanian Tomlinson in his last couple years as a Charger.  He experienced the dynamic of having a new face of the franchise (Philip) who was ready and raring to go and the old face, LT couldn't let go and accept a changing role.  I'm pretty sure he was determined not to be sitting behind his replacement on his own team.  Getting a new team meant a new role from the outset.  He'll go gracefully when it's time and go fulfill his lifelong dream of being a high school football coach, building up young men like his father did.

 

In the early spring meeting, it was Phil who told the Chargers it was best for both parties if he left.  I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if Tom Telesco would have given him one more year.  In the end, sad as it is for me, I think it's for the best all around.  Rivers gets a championship worthy team for one or two last runs at the prize, the Chargers got to use their high draft pick for a quality QB.  

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12 hours ago, Girlzarefanstoo said:

I was about to point that out after reading all the posts here,  PHILIP, ONE L lol!  

 

I came to the board today after seeing the Rivers' miked up video the Colts put out on Twitter.  Phil looked sharp.  His release was really quick and the throws I saw were really clean and on target.  Not at game speed or under physical threat of course, but looking good anyway.  Almost brought a tear to my eye, I forget he's gone then it's such a jolt to see him in a Colt's uni.

 

You guys are going to get to know what an amazing man Rivers is.  He's one of a kind.  Selfless.  Humble.  Confident but not cocky.  Total team guy.  Bad game, he'll tell the world it's on him.  Great game, "Heck, the guys did all the work, they made it easy."

 

Philip watched the awful situation with LaDanian Tomlinson in his last couple years as a Charger.  He experienced the dynamic of having a new face of the franchise (Philip) who was ready and raring to go and the old face, LT couldn't let go and accept a changing role.  I'm pretty sure he was determined not to be sitting behind his replacement on his own team.  Getting a new team meant a new role from the outset.  He'll go gracefully when it's time and go fulfill his lifelong dream of being a high school football coach, building up young men like his father did.

 

In the early spring meeting, it was Phil who told the Chargers it was best for both parties if he left.  I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if Tom Telesco would have given him one more year.  In the end, sad as it is for me, I think it's for the best all around.  Rivers gets a championship worthy team for one or two last runs at the prize, the Chargers got to use their high draft pick for a quality QB.  

I have always considered him a top 10 QB of his era for the most part and a couple of years maybe top 5 even. He has me curious. I think with our O.Line he will have a good season.

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I don't think Rivers HAS to do as much as he tried to do in SD.  He's got a great OL in front of him, he's got a great running game, some weapons on the outside, and the defense has been bolstered.  Overall this is a fairly deep team.  He's got some former coaches with schemes he's comfortable with.  All he needs to do is just do his part, he doesn't have to carry the team.  Take what is there, don't force things, and let your playmakers MAKE THE PLAYS.  If he sticks with that, they'll be fine.  If he feels like he has to be the hero, then they're screwed.  But I'm sure the coaches have already had this discussion with Phil.

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On 8/18/2020 at 4:43 PM, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

Adam Vinatieri made 68% of his kicks last year...you improve that to league average of 83% and the Colts make the playoffs. If you're taking #1 WR's out of it, who do the Colts have that is better than Mike Williams? The Colts also don't have a RB who is going to catch 92 passes this year.

the running backs will definitely catch 92 passes this year. 

doesn't need to be one RB to count. 

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Jeff Saturday was on ESPN yesterday and they were talking about Rivers and the Colts. He said the same thing many on here have. Rivers doesn't have to carry this team or do everything himself. This team is very talented. Just need him to hand the ball off and throw it to the skill guys. Let them do everything else. If he keeps his turnovers down, this is gonna be a really good team. We don't need Rivers to be a gunslinger. 

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On 8/18/2020 at 3:43 PM, Grigson's Gaffes said:

 

Adam Vinatieri made 68% of his kicks last year...you improve that to league average of 83% and the Colts make the playoffs. If you're taking #1 WR's out of it, who do the Colts have that is better than Mike Williams? The Colts also don't have a RB who is going to catch 92 passes this year.

So if you don't count the Colts best receiver, they don't have anyone as good as the Chargers best receiver.  That is like saying, in 2019, if you take out Philip Rivers who on the chargers was as good as Jacoby Brissett?

 

Also Hines has every chance of filling that Eckler role.  Will he catch 92?  I doubt it, as it stands right now, Rivers will have a lot more weapons in Indy than he did with the Chargers last year, but Hines should be up there in receptions, he had 63 as a rookie, so it's not out of the question that he can eclipse that with another competent QB.

4 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I've been told I'm like a field of roses.

They're lying to you.  Just sayin'

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10 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

I had a dream last night that Rivers went deep to Pittman early and often in the first game because the defense was stacking the box, and Pittman had 2 TDs before the end of the 1st quarter.  :goodluck:

I hope your dream come to fruition, especially since I’m attending this Week 1 game in Jacksonville. I live in Florida and went last year in December, in what turned out to be Philip’s last win as a Charger – I’ll be totally pleased to witness his 1st win as a Colt, in the same stadium a mere 9 months later.

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16 minutes ago, Lancer1 said:

I hope your dream come to fruition, especially since I’m attending this Week 1 game in Jacksonville. I live in Florida and went last year in December, in what turned out to be Philip’s last win as a Charger – I’ll be totally pleased to witness his 1st win as a Colt, in the same stadium a mere 9 months later.

Nothing is a given but if I had to put a % on the game, I give the Colts a 70% chance to win which is pretty high. Our roster is just simply better now but they do give us trouble every year it seems no matter who they have. So I wont go higher than 70% and it is at Jacks.

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18 hours ago, landrus13 said:

Jeff Saturday was on ESPN yesterday and they were talking about Rivers and the Colts. He said the same thing many on here have. Rivers doesn't have to carry this team or do everything himself. This team is very talented. Just need him to hand the ball off and throw it to the skill guys. Let them do everything else. If he keeps his turnovers down, this is gonna be a really good team. We don't need Rivers to be a gunslinger. 

Very true. He doesn't have to play hero. But I do like the possibility that this team can create some mismatches over the top. I think a lot of us on here have missed those deep shots that can really change the game to our favor. 

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On 8/18/2020 at 5:13 PM, EastStreet said:

Doesn't matter about AV. Had we made the playoffs, we weren't going far. We didn't have the passing O, or passing D to make a run.

 

I think you're reaching here on the pass catchers. Rivers will make Indy's RBs look as good catching, as LAC's RBs last year. In Hine's rookie year, he caught 60+ passes. He'll do fine with Rivers. And the Colts likely won't need a RB to catch 92 passes like LAC did. Had LAC's OL given Rivers more time, he likely wouldn't have checked to RBs near that much.

 

 At TE, Doyle is as good as or better than Henry. LAC only had 2 WRs over 150 yards last year. They had Allen and Williams. A healthy TY/Campbell/Pittman will likely have more combined yards than those two did last. 

 

Doyle is a better blocker...but Henry is a much more dynamic TE and better pass catcher.

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