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Sean Payton vs. Chuck Pagano

DalTXColtsFan

By DalTXColtsFan
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DalTXColtsFan

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Sean Payton was being thrown around as a possible replacement for Chuck Pagano last year.  Did anyone actually want him?  If so, why?

 

He did go 11-5 in 2013, but then 7-9 and 7-9 in 2014 and 2015 and they're 5-8 this year.  Colts 11-5, 11-5, 8-8 (starting QB out half season), 6-7.

 

People say Andrew Luck is the only reason Pagano won so many games, but Payton has Drew Brees.

People say the only reason Pagano won so many games is they play in the AFC South.  The NFC South isn't any better.

 

When I look at the Saints roster I see a boatload more talent than what I see on the Colts.

 

Why would anyone have any more confidence in Payton than they have in Pagano?

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Surge89 Walk On

Surge89

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4 minutes ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

Sean Payton was being thrown around as a possible replacement for Chuck Pagano last year.  Did anyone actually want him?  If so, why?

 

He did go 11-5 in 2013, but then 7-9 and 7-9 in 2014 and 2015 and they're 5-8 this year.  Colts 11-5, 11-5, 8-8 (starting QB out half season), 6-7.

 

People say Andrew Luck is the only reason Pagano won so many games, but Payton has Drew Brees.

People say the only reason Pagano won so many games is they play in the AFC South.  The NFC South isn't any better.

 

When I look at the Saints roster I see a boatload more talent than what I see on the Colts.

 

Why would anyone have any more confidence in Payton than they have in Pagano?

 

While I agree with your overall premise how can you say the NFC south is just as bad as the AFC South???

 

Atlanta for years has been a good team.  Yes they were in a slump (because of the Julio Jones deal) but always competitive.  Carolina for the past 3 years have been a legit contender for Super Bowl (see last year) and Tampa Bay has been trending upwards (and not just on paper like the Jags) for about 4 years now.  In what way is their division anywhere close to being like ours?  Their weakest team (Tampa) could come into our division and make a realistic run for 1st....

 

Of course you might say the Saints are the worst team in their division but I'd say that is a stretch just based on the facts you mentioned in your original post. 

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TKnight24 Walk On

TKnight24

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Sean Payton is an offensive mastermind 

 

Would've been great for Andrew's development. I wanted him, but wanted Chuck to stay if we didn't get him cause no one else caught my interest 

 

Let Sean Payton be HC and basically OC. Get a DC and let's get this thing rolling

 

He's not to blame for New Orleans failure. Awful cap management by their owner & GM did it to them

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19colt Walk On

19colt

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3 hours ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

When I look at the Saints roster I see a boatload more talent than what I see on the Colts.

 

I can't name a single player on their defense off the top of my head but could for every other team. Most big football fans would know the Colts have Mathis, Davis, Jackson and maybe Butler. 

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southwest1 Walk On

southwest1

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4 hours ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

Sean Payton was being thrown around as a possible replacement for Chuck Pagano last year.  Did anyone actually want him?  If so, why?

 

He did go 11-5 in 2013, but then 7-9 and 7-9 in 2014 and 2015 and they're 5-8 this year.  Colts 11-5, 11-5, 8-8 (starting QB out half season), 6-7.

 

People say Andrew Luck is the only reason Pagano won so many games, but Payton has Drew Brees.

People say the only reason Pagano won so many games is they play in the AFC South.  The NFC South isn't any better.

 

When I look at the Saints roster I see a boatload more talent than what I see on the Colts.

 

Why would anyone have any more confidence in Payton than they have in Pagano?

Are you asking me if I would have been happy with Payton roaming our sidelines vs Pagano? 

 

I always like Sean Payton when he was Bill Parcells OC in Dallas. A smart dude who takes calculated risks i.e. an onside kick vs INDY in the second half. He's very aggressive but not stupid & I've always liked that about him. Plus, Sean knows the value in a stout defense. He had it for 1 yr with Rob Ryan & he's been searching for it ever since. In addition, my respect for him grew after I saw the SuperDome rebuild special on NFL Network after Hurricane Katrina. Payton is a born leader. 

 

To answer your question, we'd be further along then where we are now. I can't say we'd play in a SB yet, but I'm confident we'd have a thousand yard rusher that would make Luck's life on game day a hades of a lot easier. 

 

I get Sean not wanting to leave Drew Brees so I won't hold that against him since both the HC & QB made that team relevant again & gave New Orleans hope again. 

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4 hours ago, Surge89 said:

 

While I agree with your overall premise how can you say the NFC south is just as bad as the AFC South???

 

Atlanta for years has been a good team.  Yes they were in a slump (because of the Julio Jones deal) but always competitive.  Carolina for the past 3 years have been a legit contender for Super Bowl (see last year) and Tampa Bay has been trending upwards (and not just on paper like the Jags) for about 4 years now.  In what way is their division anywhere close to being like ours?  Their weakest team (Tampa) could come into our division and make a realistic run for 1st....

 

Of course you might say the Saints are the worst team in their division but I'd say that is a stretch just based on the facts you mentioned in your original post. 

I just double-checked the numbers and you're right, from 2013-2016 the other 3 teams in the NFC South haven't been nearly as bad as the other 3 teams in the AFC South.  Carolina won 12, 7, 15 and 5 games.  Atlanta 4, 6, 8 and 8, TB 4, 2, 6 and 8.  Houston 2, 9, 9, 7, Tennessee 7, 2, 3, 7, Jax 3, 4, 5 and 2.  It's not even close.  85 to 60 by my count.

 

Payton's won 30 games in 4 years (up to now), Pagano 36.  I'd still think that if Payton was such a much better coach he'd have at least as many wins as Pagano if not more despite having to play tougher schedules each year.

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southwest1 Walk On

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What's matters to me most is why we you hired & promoted to a head coaching position? 

 

In other words, what's your calling card? Payton was known for his prolific offense & that he has delivered on. 

 

Pagano's calling card was defense working for the Ravens & our D doesn't exactly scare anybody. 

 

Okay sure, our GM went heavy on WRs & TEs until recently draft wise, but shouldn't Chuck be able to mold our D into something respectable that shows improvement like Rod Marinelli in Dallas who inherited a lackluster group of pass rushers for the most part? 

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southwest1 Walk On

southwest1

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3 minutes ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

Then why isn't his leadership translating into more wins?

Leadership means more than wins. It's about accountability from the superstar athletes on down. 

 

True, I have no idea what Sean's or Chuck's management style is behind closed doors. However, coaching is all about the tone you set & what you deem acceptable behavior or not. Does the Saints offense keep committing false starts regularly or what feels like every week with INDY for awhile there? Nope. 

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superrep1967 Team Captain

superrep1967

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12 hours ago, TKnight24 said:

Sean Payton is an offensive mastermind 

 

Would've been great for Andrew's development. I wanted him, but wanted Chuck to stay if we didn't get him cause no one else caught my interest 

 

Let Sean Payton be HC and basically OC. Get a DC and let's get this thing rolling

 

He's not to blame for New Orleans failure. Awful cap management by their owner & GM did it to them

 

Well. He did win a Super Bowl. 

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21isSuperman Walk On

21isSuperman

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17 hours ago, TKnight24 said:

Sean Payton is an offensive mastermind 

 

Would've been great for Andrew's development. I wanted him, but wanted Chuck to stay if we didn't get him cause no one else caught my interest 

 

Let Sean Payton be HC and basically OC. Get a DC and let's get this thing rolling

 

He's not to blame for New Orleans failure. Awful cap management by their owner & GM did it to them

The defensive coordinators he's hired have been really bad.  That's the main reason I hesitate to support Payton for head coach.

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TKnight24 Walk On

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37 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

The defensive coordinators he's hired have been really bad.  That's the main reason I hesitate to support Payton for head coach.

I agree. Let Irsay make the final verdict on the DC. I don't mind Tedder though. We got a glimpse of what he can do with a healthy defense in the Tennessee & Green Bay game

 

Defense was phenomenal in those games until the end of them both. Titans offense was riding high until they played us. 

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jameszeigler834 Walk On

jameszeigler834

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19 hours ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

Sean Payton was being thrown around as a possible replacement for Chuck Pagano last year.  Did anyone actually want him?  If so, why?

 

He did go 11-5 in 2013, but then 7-9 and 7-9 in 2014 and 2015 and they're 5-8 this year.  Colts 11-5, 11-5, 8-8 (starting QB out half season), 6-7.

 

People say Andrew Luck is the only reason Pagano won so many games, but Payton has Drew Brees.

People say the only reason Pagano won so many games is they play in the AFC South.  The NFC South isn't any better.

 

When I look at the Saints roster I see a boatload more talent than what I see on the Colts.

 

Why would anyone have any more confidence in Payton than they have in Pagano?

The saints have gotten rid of all their talent and replaced them with overrated players.

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chad72 Ring of Honor

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To me, it goes back to the Dungy and Caldwell days when we could hang with the best because we did not make mistakes to shoot ourselves in the foot often that we could play for 60 minutes. With Pagano's squad, whether it is slow starts or untimely penalties or turnovers, there are too many negative periods of play that lead to an inconsistently performing squad.

 

More than Sean Payton, we could use a "focus on your fundamentals and play hard nosed" coach like Tom Coughlin or Jim Harbaugh (who I think is like a younger version of Tom Coughlin in several ways - run the ball, play good D, be prepared, don't shoot yourself in the foot with penalties, play the field position game instead of giving a short field with penalties etc.). When we have a coach like that, that is when you will see the talent maximized and consistency appear.

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ztboiler Practice Squad

ztboiler

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If you look at the amount of dead cap that the Saints have absorbed in the last 5+ years and their repeated fails in free agency - they are the epitome of trying to fix it all overnight....every year.

 

 Easy to understand why they tried when you have a first ballot HOF QB in his prime....but still ends up as the perpetual band-aid organization.  

 

All of this stems back to bountygate...they were a model organization before that, but could never get their rhythm back once they tried to force it.

 

Considering their talent on offense and the skill of their head coach, it's been arguably the most mismanaged franchise of recent history.  Hard to truly evaluate Payton in that light, which is why teams consider him a coach worth giving up a draft pick for still.

 

As painful as this year has been, the Saints are the reason I'm grateful that our strategy in 2016 was to go back to the basics of roster building. Now.....if we could just get to work on some NFL caliber gameplans.  Haven't seen many of those this year.

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will426 Practice Squad

will426

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

To me, it goes back to the Dungy and Caldwell days when we could hang with the best because we did not make mistakes to shoot ourselves in the foot often that we could play for 60 minutes. With Pagano's squad, whether it is slow starts or untimely penalties or turnovers, there are too many negative periods of play that lead to an inconsistently performing squad.

 

More than Sean Payton, we could use a "focus on your fundamentals and play hard nosed" coach like Tom Coughlin or Jim Harbaugh (who I think is like a younger version of Tom Coughlin in several ways - run the ball, play good D, be prepared, don't shoot yourself in the foot with penalties, play the field position game instead of giving a short field with penalties etc.). When we have a coach like that, that is when you will see the talent maximized and consistency appear.

Coughlin would be great

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Colts1324 Team Captain

Colts1324

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1 hour ago, VocableLoki said:

This small blip from ESPN suggests the Saints would be open to moving Payton. It's been suggested over and over that Irsay wanted him last season, any chance we get him here now? http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/26972/who-could-replace-rex-ryan

I'd be happy to have him over Pagano. But he hasn't done much since the 2010 Super Bowl. 

What does it accomplish replacing a coach who's teams have bad defense with a coach who has had a terrible defense for years. Payton sure would be good for our offense and Andrew Luck. If we could get Sean Payton as our coach and Rex Ryan as D.C. I would be pretty pleased. 

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richard pallo Ring of Honor

richard pallo

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I think he will have to agree on where he ends up.  He is going to want a good young QB which puts LA at the front right now but a lot could change when the season ends.  If Jim does pull the trigger after our last game I think this is the coach to keep an eye on.  I still think it's a big if.  If Chuck wins the last game I really find it hard to see him firing him but  if Jim is anything he is unpredictable. 

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LJpalmbeacher2 Ring of Honor

LJpalmbeacher2

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39 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Sean Payton has an elite QB, and has missed the playoffs in consecutive years, in a bad division. And their defense is a joke. Sound familiar?

I'm not a fan of Payton but he and just about anyone else is a upgrade over pagano BUT HOPING for someone elite.

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