QB Discussion and Preference Poll - Part 2.5

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, BluesGirl said:

You think that maybe with soooo much being invested in the Oline that maybe its time for a DE rush to go along with Buckner who IMO playing 3tech is the most important position on this defense 

Not when your veteran LT retires but I have always been focused on the O as a player, coach, and fan

 

  I left the D to my Dad who was a DE/LB in college and a Defensive minded Coach

[BluesGirl]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Not when your veteran LT retires but I have always been focused on the O as a player, coach, and fan

 

  I left the D to my Dad who was a DE/LB in college and a Defensive minded Coach

Which position would you rather have addressed in FA?    LT or DE ?

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, BluesGirl said:

Which position would you rather have addressed in FA?    LT or DE ?

There are more DE available in FA 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I am honestly getting bored with the Wentz drama and wondering who will be our QB. It will happen when it happens. Nothing going on right now.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, BluesGirl said:

Agree.   I also think that the Colts are working Atl for that #4 pick and not Ryan.       If that happens who would you target at 4?  Or who do you think the Colts are targeting at 4?

 

And how big of an explosion on this site when the fans see what Ballard had to give up t get there?    

 

Only speculation and magic 8 ball being used for these questions  LOL

For what it’s worth...

 

Among the many things Ballard has shared repeatedly is that moving up in the first round is tremendously expensive and he’d prefer not to do it.   He has described himself as not a trade up kind of guy (referring to the first round.)

 

Not only is it VERY expensive,  but the success rate on first round quarterbacks is, at best, 50 percent.   So you can pay a fortune, move up, take a quarterback up high, and still have a 50 percent chance of failure.   That’s not the Ballard way. 

[NFLfan]

"Roll with Eason", "Trade for Wentz" and "Move up the draft to select a top QB" seem to be most popular moves for QB for the upcoming year. 

 

Of the "Roll with Eason" group, why is that your preference? (It is just a question; no judgment.)

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

For what it’s worth...

 

Among the many things Ballard has shared repeatedly is that moving up in the first round is tremendously expensive and he’d prefer not to do it.   He has described himself as not a trade up kind of guy (referring to the first round.)

 

Not only is it VERY expensive,  but the success rate on first round quarterbacks is, at best, 50 percent.   So you can pay a fortune, move up, take a quarterback up high, and still have a 50 percent chance of failure.   That’s not the Ballard way. 

Who knew CB and PT are kindred Spirits

 

@BluesGirl

[BluesGirl]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

For what it’s worth...

 

Among the many things Ballard has shared repeatedly is that moving up in the first round is tremendously expensive and he’d prefer not to do it.   He has described himself as not a trade up kind of guy (referring to the first round.)

 

Not only is it VERY expensive,  but the success rate on first round quarterbacks is, at best, 50 percent.   So you can pay a fortune, move up, take a quarterback up high, and still have a 50 percent chance of failure.   That’s not the Ballard way. 

Yea. I get that.  I am one of the few that think Ballard is not as cryptic about what he's saying     Which is funny because he tells the truth and still outsmarts people  

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, BluesGirl said:

Yea. I get that.  I am one of the few that think Ballard is not as cryptic about what he's saying     Which is funny because he tells the truth and still outsmarts people  

Yup!   Very well said.   He’s among the most candid and straight forward sports Executives I’ve covered or followed. 
 

And yet, he often still outsmarts people is RIGHT!    

[Mr.Debonair]

24 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

"Roll with Eason", "Trade for Wentz" and "Move up the draft to select a top QB" seem to be most popular moves for QB for the upcoming year. 

 

Of the "Roll with Eason" group, why is that your preference? (It is just a question; no judgment.)

I’m good with rolling with Eason or Trading for Wentz. 
 

Rolling Eason is a win win for the team IMO. You could find your long term answer at the position or end up with a Top 10 pick. I don’t anymore bridges like Rivers and Fitzpatrick who keep us picking in the 20’s but aren’t the answer long term

[Smoke317]

47 minutes ago, BluesGirl said:

Which position would you rather have addressed in FA?    LT or DE ?

DE.  Ballard & Staff haven’t had much success (outside of Turay 2 seasons ago) drafting Edge rushers or cornerbacks. I say we look to address those positions in FA.  Draft a QB & Lineman.

[NFLfan]

 

7 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Rolling Eason is a win win for the team IMO. You could find your long term answer at the position or end up with a Top 10 pick. I don’t anymore bridges like Rivers and Fitzpatrick who keep us picking in the 20’s but aren’t the answer long term

 

Good point. Middling teams seem to remain that way. They are never good enough to win but not bad enough to put themselves in a position to draft a top 10 player. (Like the Vikings)

[Smoke317]

39 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

For what it’s worth...

 

Among the many things Ballard has shared repeatedly is that moving up in the first round is tremendously expensive and he’d prefer not to do it.   He has described himself as not a trade up kind of guy (referring to the first round.)

 

Not only is it VERY expensive,  but the success rate on first round quarterbacks is, at best, 50 percent.   So you can pay a fortune, move up, take a quarterback up high, and still have a 50 percent chance of failure.   That’s not the Ballard way. 

Most QB’s taken high are usually going to poor teams that are rebuilding. If we moved up, the QB we’d get would be coming to an 11 win team with 6 All Pros and countless other young talented players.  I think our team as currently constructed would lead to a better than 50% success rate.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

37 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

"Roll with Eason", "Trade for Wentz" and "Move up the draft to select a top QB" seem to be most popular moves for QB for the upcoming year. 

 

Of the "Roll with Eason" group, why is that your preference? (It is just a question; no judgment.)

Because he is young and a blank slate. By starting him we are at least advancing the future with info. He can either be the guy or we will draft high. It does not advance the future by getting another one year bandaid. So yeah eason, Wentz, it trade way up. For me most likely anyone else doesn’t do us much good. If you think Eason might be the guy in 22 just start him this year. No reason to bring in a bandaid.

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Smoke317 said:

Most QB’s taken high are usually going to poor teams that are rebuilding. If we moved up, the QB we’d get would be coming to an 11 win team with 6 All Pros and countless other young talented players.  I think our team as currently constructed would lead to a better than 50% success rate.

That’s entirely possible.   And while I would never rule out 100 percent that Ballard would never trade up that high, I still think of it as highly unlikely.  
 

I think Ballard hopes to find a QB that either falls to him in the 20’s in any given year, or he finds gold in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

Or,  if we’re patient and smart with Eason, hopefully he becomes our starter in 2022 or 23. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Because he is young and a blank slate. By starting him we are at least advancing the future with info. He can either be the guy or we will draft high. It does not advance the future by getting another one year bandaid. So yeah eason, Wentz, it trade way up. For me most likely anyone else doesn’t do us much good. If you think Eason might be the guy in 22 just start him this year. No reason to bring in a bandaid.

I think this is false.   If you throw in a guy in the deep end before he’s ready, he drowns.  But if your patient, and teach him how to swim and survive he can be a good swimmer down the road. 
 

Starting a guy before he’s ready is not what good GMs do.    Just because you need Eason to be ready NOW doesn’t mean he’s going to be ready now.   But he might be ready in a year. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think this is false.   If you throw in a guy in the deep end before he’s ready, he drowns.  But if your patient, and teach him how to swim and survive he can be a good swimmer down the road. 
 

Starting a guy before he’s ready is not what good GMs do.    Just because you need Eason to be ready NOW doesn’t mean he’s going to be ready now.   But he might be ready in a year. 

He was here the entire year soaking things up. I dm sure he is mentally prepared.

[NewColtsFan]

16 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He was here the entire year soaking things up. I dm sure he is mentally prepared.

A year of Covid was not the normal year.  He was the third string.  He got less attention than he might’ve in a normal year. 
 

Also...  Eason has played exactly one year out of the last four.   One.  That’s all.   He’s not even close to being able to start real games in the NFL.   Thats why Ballard said he’s not even sure if Eason is ready to be the backup. 
 

Just because you want him to be ready, doesn’t mean he’s going to be.   Over reacting to the NEED is how bad decisions are made.

 

If he’s ready now, then why are we pursuing other quarterbacks?   That wouldn’t make sense if Eason is ready.   He’s not ready,  no matter how many fans here want him to be. 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

A year of Covid was not the normal year.  He was the third string.  He got less attention than he might’ve in a normal year. 
 

Also...  Eason has played exactly one year out of the last four.   One.  That’s all.   He’s not even close to being able to start real games in the NFL.   Thats Balkatdvsaid he’s not even sure if Ballatd is ready to be the backup. 
 

Just because you want him to be ready, doesn’t mean he’s going to be.   Over reacting to the NEED is how bad decisions are made.

 

If he’s ready now, then why are we pursuing other quarterbacks?   That wouldn’t make sense if Eason is ready.   He’s not ready,  no matter how many fans here want him to be. 

[danlhart87]

1 hour ago, BluesGirl said:

Wow.  Gonna have to watch this again without having some beers.    I couldn't find him on the videos before the play started.  BIG TIME impressed coming from the 0 or 1 spot and still making plays.  

 

Where is he projected to go?

Hes projected top 20

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, Mr.Debonair said:

I’m good with rolling with Eason or Trading for Wentz. 
 

Rolling Eason is a win win for the team IMO. You could find your long term answer at the position or end up with a Top 10 pick. I don’t anymore bridges like Rivers and Fitzpatrick who keep us picking in the 20’s but aren’t the answer long term

Let's just go with Eason, tank and draft Howell or Rattler next year lol

 

(I'm being sarcastic)

[HectorRoberts]

3 hours ago, w87r said:

If you would come off your high compensation demands HR, we could get some resolution.

I have told you over and over again! Just give me me your next 3 1st rounds and the next 2 2nd rounds then you can have my #35 ranked qb! Your getting a deal really!

[WoolMagnet]

2 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Not when your veteran LT retires but I have always been focused on the O as a player, coach, and fan

 

  I left the D to my Dad who was a DE/LB in college and a Defensive minded Coach

Im kinda hoping Ballard pulls a miracle and grabs Brown to play LT.  That frees up the #1 for rush, CB, or even OL or other player that may slip.  It also frees up Ballard to make a move if he likes a QB.  Filling the LT with a vet may be a better option all around.  It may be easier to plug and play. If the cards fall that way at least.

[rockywoj]

Here’s a question ... do most of you think that Trevor Lawrence is like Manning or Luck, a can’t miss prospect?  If he is, thinking back, what plethora of draft picks would you have been willing to give up to move up from a mid-late draft slot to take Manning or Luck?

 

Further, if Lawrence is such a can’t miss guy, would the team’s ability to further build be crippled by giving up what it would take to get him?

[NewColtsFan]

22 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Im kinda hoping Ballard pulls a miracle and grabs Brown to play LT.  That frees up the #1 for rush, CB, or even OL or other player that may slip.  It also frees up Ballard to make a move if he likes a QB.  Filling the LT with a vet may be a better option all around.  It may be easier to plug and play. If the cards fall that way at least.

We can’t grab Brown.  He’s not a free agent.  He’s got one more year on his rookie contract, so we’d have to trade for him.   Odds are Baltimore would want a minimum of a 2 and more.   The minimum.   And for a starting LT, they might get a first.   Just saying...

 

Still interested?   

[Sumo63]

3 hours ago, NFLfan said:

"Roll with Eason", "Trade for Wentz" and "Move up the draft to select a top QB" seem to be most popular moves for QB for the upcoming year. 

 

Of the "Roll with Eason" group, why is that your preference? (It is just a question; no judgment.)

For me "roll with eason" doesnt exactly mean giving him the keys to the kingdom.  It's also about bringing in a couple guys, who dont mortgage the future, to have an open competition.

 

Let the colts try to acquire Wentz for what they've offered, explore Darnold, look at Winston, trade up and draft a dude, wait for someone to fall to 21....

 

None of those options necessarily rule out rolling with Eason.......none of these "big names" (aside from Watson) move the needle much imo so put Eason in a scenario in which he can compete.  Bring out the best in him.

 

An established vet with a couple years left doesnt really interest me.  Great recipe to be picking 21st again.

 

Just my opinion.

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Here’s a question ... do most of you think that Trevor Lawrence is like Manning or Luck, a can’t miss prospect?  If he is, thinking back, what plethora of draft picks would you have been willing to give up to move up from a mid-late draft slot to take Manning or Luck?

 

Further, if Lawrence is such a can’t miss guy, would the team’s ability to further build be crippled by giving up what it would take to get him?

It is easy to say that he will probably never be as great as Manning was because of the career Manning had. 2 SB wins, 5 League MVP's, over 70,000 yards passing, and 539 TD's. He could be better than Luck though but that is even questionable. Luck had a very good career and was great at times winning 4 playoff games and as a rookie Luck was very good right away. Lawrence is similar to Luck as in a can't miss prospect. I would honestly give up my 1st round picks this year, 2022, and 2023, also my 2nd's this year, 2022, and 2023 to get a guy like Lawrence. That is 6 freakin great draft picks. He is on par with Luck IMO and on a team like ours he would be good right away. A team like the Jags may ruin his career, they flat out stink. 

 

Having said all of that, we would still have picks 3-7 the next 3 drafts and a guy like Lawrence (who can be Luck like) hopefully for 15 years. He would also be under a rookie salary, we could re-sign guys like Nelson and Leonard with no problem then. Bring back Houston as well. Maybe get a LT in Free Agency or draft one in round 3. 

 

Yeah my crazy idea's  

[tweezy32]

57 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

We can’t grab Brown.  He’s not a free agent.  He’s got one more year on his rookie contract, so we’d have to trade for him.   Odds are Baltimore would want a minimum of a 2 and more.   The minimum.   And for a starting LT, they might get a first.   Just saying...

 

Still interested?   

Well he did request a trade so he does want out.. but I still wouldn’t go after him cuz he wants To be a LT and wants to be paid big time and we don’t have that money to pay for another big LT contract and address other needs still

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, tweezy32 said:

Well he did request a trade so he does want out.. but I still wouldn’t go after him cuz he wants To be a LT and wants to be paid big time and we don’t have that money to pay for another big LT contract and address other needs still

Well...   if the main objection is not wanting to pay an another player to play LT,  the one solution is moving Nelson to LT and acquiring another guard to pay a more modest amount. 
 

Otherwise, if Q stays at guard, we will make him the highest paid guard and then either draft or sign a FA to play LT.   If it’s draft, we have a 3 to 4 year window to pay a cheap rookie contract.   If it’s FA, then we’ll be paying good to very good money right from the start, which obviously complicates the financial picture. 
 

We will likely know by April one.  By then,  we should know if we’ve moved Q to LT or signed a free agent instead?  
 

The options are interesting. 

[WoolMagnet]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

We can’t grab Brown.  He’s not a free agent.  He’s got one more year on his rookie contract, so we’d have to trade for him.   Odds are Baltimore would want a minimum of a 2 and more.   The minimum.   And for a starting LT, they might get a first.   Just saying...

 

Still interested?   

Sorry.  I knew trade necessary.

I’m just looking at needs.  Even if we draft a tackle high, i’d still like a vet brought in for competition/depth.  Its too important to not address.  It just seems that we plugged in two vets late in season and they were more than serviceable.

I’m ok with whatever direction we go, it just needs to be addressed.  Any FAs ballard may sign b4 draft may give us more insight.  Exciting!

 

[Boondoggle]

There's rumors of Jalen Hurts gathering the receivers.  I don't see how time is their friend.

 

Roseman is thinking Wentz is more valuable than guys like Darnold but the age and his play and the contract and how the team was responding to him cut into that.  Price Wentz too high and all of a sudden teams will move to that next option.

 

Oh and btw I'm going to start a twitter rumor that Wentz was called "Prince Harry" in the locker room.  Not true but they resemble each other and people may run with it.

[BluesGirl]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

  Over reacting to the NEED is how bad decisions are made.

 

 

Yep

[richard pallo]

Just read a Chicago article and Philly article on the Wentz trade and it appears the only thing holding up his trade to the Bears is Wentz.  Chicago will not pull the trigger knowing Wentz doesn't want to play there.  He prefers the Colts because he thinks we are the best situation for him.  The overall team , particularly the offensive side, and the coaching of course.  Unless the Bears can convince him to come it appears they will not take the chance and make the trade.  At least that's what is being reported this morning.  

[csmopar]

12 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Just read a Chicago article and Philly article on the Wentz trade and it appears the only thing holding up his trade to the Bears is Wentz.  Chicago will not pull the trigger knowing Wentz doesn't want to play there.  He prefers the Colts because he thinks we are the best situation for him.  The overall team , particularly the offensive side, and the coaching of course.  Unless the Bears can convince him to come it appears they will not take the chance and make the trade.  At least that's what is being reported this morning.  

Link? And Wentz has no say in it ,legally, he has no , no-trade clause in his contract. They could trade him and he’d be stuck with it. 

[Smoke317]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Just read a Chicago article and Philly article on the Wentz trade and it appears the only thing holding up his trade to the Bears is Wentz.  Chicago will not pull the trigger knowing Wentz doesn't want to play there.  He prefers the Colts because he thinks we are the best situation for him.  The overall team , particularly the offensive side, and the coaching of course.  Unless the Bears can convince him to come it appears they will not take the chance and make the trade.  At least that's what is being reported this morning.  

This guy...  We’re trying to give subtle hints that we really want him to go to Chicago.  We have others plans at QB Carson & you aren’t it.  We need to just lower the offer to a single 3rd rounder to make things clearer.  We ONLY want Wentz if it’s a cheap steal of a deal.  Chicago, Denver, or stay in Philly as the backup.

[Smoke317]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Link? And Wentz has no say in it ,legally, he has no , no-trade clause in his contract. They could trade him and he’d be stuck with it. 

Yeah but by basically saying you don’t want to play in a place, you’re making it very difficult for them to justify trading for you to their fans.  After a few struggles, I’d imagine the poor teammate, lack of accountability Wentz would show back up.

[Clem-Dog]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Link? And Wentz has no say in it ,legally, he has no , no-trade clause in his contract. They could trade him and he’d be stuck with it. 

For sure the Eagles and Bears could force a trade, but apparently the Bears want a commitment from Wentz before pulling the trigger.  

[#12.]

25 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Just read a Chicago article and Philly article on the Wentz trade and it appears the only thing holding up his trade to the Bears is Wentz.  Chicago will not pull the trigger knowing Wentz doesn't want to play there.  He prefers the Colts because he thinks we are the best situation for him.  The overall team , particularly the offensive side, and the coaching of course.  Unless the Bears can convince him to come it appears they will not take the chance and make the trade.  At least that's what is being reported this morning.  

 

If he really wants to be here, if he really wants to be a Colt, I take that as a good sign.   It shows he wants to get to Indy, work and return to where he was with Frank in 2017.

 

If I were the Bears and Wentz doesn't want to be there, I wouldn't trade for him either.  Good chance it's not going to work.

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Link? And Wentz has no say in it ,legally, he has no , no-trade clause in his contract. They could trade him and he’d be stuck with it. 

Of course they could.  That's not the point.  The Bears won't do the trade not the Eagles.  They will not take the risk unless Wentz is all in.  They need to convince him.  It's a big risk for Wentz.  Both their GM and coach could be gone after this year if the team doesn't have a good year and he's back into a mess again just like the Eagles now.  Much better team and front office and HC security with the Colts situation. 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

This guy...  We’re trying to give subtle hints that we really want him to go to Chicago.  We have others plans at QB Carson & you aren’t it.  We need to just lower the offer to a single 3rd rounder to make things clearer.  We ONLY want Wentz if it’s a cheap steal of a deal.  Chicago, Denver, or stay in Philly as the backup.

You're kidding right?  Maybe that's how you feel but offering two 2nd's is not a cheap steal.  He is currently our 1st choice at QB until he's traded to another team.  We might not get him but we definitely want him.  Subtle hints.  That's funny.