QB Discussion and Preference Poll - Part 2.5

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I wonder if anyone asked Wentz if he wants to come play here. Have we made sure to check that off the list yet? It’s a bit of an important detail in all of this. Surely someone has made sure we aren’t headed for a case of buyers remorse. 
 

It’s been rumored that yes he wants to come here. Apparently he didn’t have the best relationship with the guy in Chicago. That is according to a eagles podcast.

 

Looks like Fosh was trolling on purpose last night because today he says Indy and Denver are the favorite.

[BProland85]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Darnold

 

If he comes cheap I wouldn't mind it. He has never had the opportunity to maximize his talent being in Adam Gase's putrid offense. Would I prefer a Fields or Wilson over him? Yes. But the cost is also much higher to do so.

 

A lot depends on what Ballard thinks of Eason during this offseason. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Upon my initial check if Wentz’ Twitter (a very light check, admittedly, I’ll deep dive later) he has made no posts that appear to endorse even the state of Indiana as a whole, let alone Indy as a city or its football culture. 
 

Of course we’re reading the tea leaves here, but that seems to indicate that he may not like or want to be around us. 
 

It lowers his value if he said that. According to a eagles podcast if he really wanted to come here he could re do his contact to make the hit for the eagles better so they can take less compensation for him.

[Moosejawcolt]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Look deeper. In 2019, Wentz had the #1 OL. Yes, he had injuries to WR, but he still had  time with Agholor and Jeffery (and IMO, he didn't fully utilize that time). He did rather well with TE (Ertz and Goedert) and decent throwing to RBs. His game just seemed to change and he was very funky overall. I'm critical of Luck, but he made guys like Rogers and other tier 2 and 3 WRs look good. Wentz did not, which is one my issues with him. He's just not a good dealer IMO. I think he could have done a lot better with the addition of JJA-W too for instance in his rook year. 

 

Darnold had a horrible OL to start with, whereas Wentz had luxury. It's just really hard to overcome a rook year, or 3 total years with a bottom 5 OL. Wentz had a great OL every year except 2020. Can you imagine him having a bottom 5 OL for all of his years?

 

 

We shall c. I think Darnold will amount to nothing no matter where he ends up.

[chad72]

Darnold with a 2nd and a future 4th was an option I would not mind.

[Moosejawcolt]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Look deeper. In 2019, Wentz had the #1 OL. Yes, he had injuries to WR, but he still had  time with Agholor and Jeffery (and IMO, he didn't fully utilize that time). He did rather well with TE (Ertz and Goedert) and decent throwing to RBs. His game just seemed to change and he was very funky overall. I'm critical of Luck, but he made guys like Rogers and other tier 2 and 3 WRs look good. Wentz did not, which is one my issues with him. He's just not a good dealer IMO. I think he could have done a lot better with the addition of JJA-W too for instance in his rook year. 

 

Darnold had a horrible OL to start with, whereas Wentz had luxury. It's just really hard to overcome a rook year, or 3 total years with a bottom 5 OL. Wentz had a great OL every year except 2020. Can you imagine him having a bottom 5 OL for all of his years?

 

 

https://www.discussthegame.com/posts/5f2587350b0cf30004326d7a

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[NFLfan]

49 minutes ago, csmopar said:

yes i do. Provided he can work with Reich on getting the ball out faster.  He is credited with allowing 8.3% of his sack totals due to holding onto the ball, by far higher than any other QB in the league since 2012.

 

 

Care to share your source? 

[John Waylon]

9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It lowers his value if he said that. According to a eagles podcast if he really wanted to come here he could re do his contact to make the hit for the eagles better so they can take less compensation for him.

We need to hear it from him directly, just to clear up any potential conjecture. We don’t want players who don’t want to be here. 
 

Until he, or Jimmy from the Colts definitively weighs in there’s just no way to actually be sure of his intentions. Dangerous times. 

[Moosejawcolt]

Wentz's 2019 season in a nutshell for all u naysayers.  2017 elite level. 2019..read article and 2020 a disaster. I believe he will bounce back.

https://www.discussthegame.com/posts/5f2587350b0cf30004326d7a

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

[NFLfan]

33 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

What's your issue with my take?

 

I believe he does not like any QB, not necessarily your take which is a sound one. 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Darnold with a 2nd and a future 4th was an option I would not mind.

I was thinking a 3 but that wouldn’t be bad

[Moosejawcolt]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

I have always tought he would go to the Bears because they would offer offer more. Nagy and Pace on the hot seat. I also believe that the Eagles would prefer to shop him any where else but the Colts. Reuniting with Reich could once again make him into an elite qb. Thay could look bad on the Eagles long term if Wentz excels.

[PrincetonTiger]

22 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It’s been rumored that yes he wants to come here. Apparently he didn’t have the best relationship with the guy in Chicago. That is according to a eagles podcast.

 

Looks like Fosh was trolling on purpose last night because today he says Indy and Denver are the favorite.

Are you surprised about Fosh

[richard pallo]

42 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

This is silly.  The best offer doesn't equate to an offer the Eagles find acceptable.  Pretty simple.  This guy is a sports writer?

[John Waylon]

I bet Roseman is begging Pace to just match our offer so he can send him there instead of here. 
 

Of course that begs the question of whether or not Wentz wants to go to Chicago. He also does not appear to have ever tweeted about Illinois. Maybe he doesn’t want to go there, either. What if he’s afraid of Mack and wants to stay away from him? He’s never expressed any sentiments that he wants to be there, who are we to just blindly assume he’s ok with going there? 

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

This is silly.  The best offer doesn't equate to an offer the Eagles find acceptable.  Pretty simple.  This guy is a sports writer?

Agreed 

[csmopar]

14 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Care to share your source? 

PFF

[stitches]

31 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I'm a bit confused at the idea that Ballard would go giving up lot's of draft stock for the 3rd or 4th guy in the QB carousel in the draft. If he's evaluated that Wentz can do it (despite what I think), then increasing his offer, even a bit, like next years 1 instead of 2, is a much safer if nothing else move. 

 

Giving up lot's of draft stock get a guy like Fields is a 50/50 to get everyone fired- probably worse odds.  

It doesn't matter if it's the 4th or 5th guy. It matters if Ballard and Reich love the guy and think he can be a franchise QB. For all we know whoever it is might be no. 1 or no. 2 on their board.

[NFLfan]

Wentz grew up a Vikings fan in North Dakota. We fans hated seeing him go to the Eagles. 

 

I think the Eagles GM is looking to get a team into giving him a first round pick for Wentz. He was successful at doing that when he brilliantly traded a middling Sam Bradford to the Vikings for a 1st round pick and a 3rd rounder in a future year. Fans hated that trade but the Vikings needed a QB after Teddy's injury. The team was opening up a new stadium and there was no way we were going with Shaun Hill as the starter for the whole year. In retrospect, it may have been better to sign a Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown (I'm a fan of Josh -- like a coach on the field). 

 

Anyway, I believe Roseman wants a similar package in return for Wentz.

 

[stitches]

Just now, NFLfan said:

Wentz grew up a Vikings fan in North Dakota. We fans hated seeing him go to the Eagles. 

 

I think the Eagles GM is looking to dupe a team into giving him a first round pick for Wentz. He was successful at doing that when he brilliantly trade Sam Bradford to the Vikings for a 1st round pick and a 3rd rounder in a future year. Fans hated that trade but the Vikings needed a QB after Teddy's injury. The team was opening up a new stadium and there was no way we were going with Shaun Hill as the starter for the whole year. In retrospect, it may have been better to sign a Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown (I'm a fan of Josh -- like a coach on the field). 

 

Anyway, I believe Roseman wants a similar package in return for Wentz.

You should offer cousins for Wentz straight up.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I bet Roseman is begging Pace to just match our offer so he can send him there instead of here. 
 

Of course that begs the question of whether or not Wentz wants to go to Chicago. He also does not appear to have ever tweeted about Illinois. Maybe he doesn’t want to go there, either. What if he’s afraid of Mack and wants to stay away from him? He’s never expressed any sentiments that he wants to be there, who are we to just blindly assume he’s ok with going there? 

I said this a couple days ago. Eagles would really hate to send Wentz here because they know Reich will make him look good. Then that will make the eagles look stupid.

[richard pallo]

17 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

If Ballard is trying to get all three players in the trade then he has to trade them a player or two back as well.  We could do that for those three and be fine.  And the Eagles receiving players back would quickly close the deal.  Hopefully he does it today so he can focus on FA and the draft.  

[NFLfan]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

You should offer cousins for Wentz straight up.

 

Cousins, Irv Smith and an OL (not named Brian O'Neill) for Wentz, Dillard, and Ertz.

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

Wentz grew up a Vikings fan in North Dakota. We fans hated seeing him go to the Eagles. 

 

I think the Eagles GM is looking to get a team into giving him a first round pick for Wentz. He was successful at doing that when he brilliantly traded a middling Sam Bradford to the Vikings for a 1st round pick and a 3rd rounder in a future year. Fans hated that trade but the Vikings needed a QB after Teddy's injury. The team was opening up a new stadium and there was no way we were going with Shaun Hill as the starter for the whole year. In retrospect, it may have been better to sign a Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown (I'm a fan of Josh -- like a coach on the field). 

 

Anyway, I believe Roseman wants a similar package in return for Wentz.

 

I am sure Vikings fans want him to go Chicago 

[stitches]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

Cousins, Irv Smith and an OL (not named Brian O'Neill) for Wentz, Dillard, and Ertz.

I would prefer Irv Smith to Ertz but overall I would do that trade.

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, stitches said:

I would prefer Irv Smith to Ertz but overall I would do that trade.

 

I have a feeling Ertz Will part of the package sinc3 the Eagles can’t afford to keep him

[NFLfan]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

I would prefer Irv Smith to Ertz but overall I would do that trade.

 

Is Ertz injured? I'm not a fan of Irv. He has not shown me enough to merit his being drafted in the 2nd.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, NFLfan said:

 

Is Ertz injured? I'm not a fan of Irv. He has not shown me enough to merit his being drafted in the 2nd.

His back might be hurt carrying the money bags HR gave him

[Moosejawcolt]

 

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

yes i do. Provided he can work with Reich on getting the ball out faster.  He is credited with allowing 8.3% of his sack totals due to holding onto the ball, by far higher than any other QB in the league since 2012.

 

 

Thanks for that stat. I was curious how many sacks were R. Wilsons fault, because it's hard to block for a QB that scrambles around in the backfield a lot instead of staying in the pocket.

 

35 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

That's a stretch but I would be okay if they added Dillard and not Ertz.

Dillard would either be a good choice at LT or good depth, I would still draft a OT though.

Ertz is gonna be a FA, so I don't want to give picks for a player that we can go after in Free Agency without giving anything up.

[Zoltan]

11 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 

I always have a hard time with anonymous sources especially with the Eagles, because their locker room has been becoming more and more toxic every year.

 

They also say that the offensive line was good and the sacks were Wentz fault, I have a hard time believing that because their OL was practice squad and backups for most of the season, with their starting LT and RG starting the season injured (The RG Brandon Brooks being their best offensive lineman). They also lost Lane johnson for awhile and 2 other guards to IR.

 

Overall I see this as a Homer Eagles article that is justifying getting rid of Wentz.

[harrisoncolts88]

How good is Dillard if added to the trade package? So far I've seen nothing but terrible RT play and injury about him. I mean it feels like adding more players to this trade (Ertz being on the wrong side of 30 and salary cap concerns) plus Dillard (injury and unknown) starts to feel like what happens on this forum during mock drafts. Where people are like hey I traded 32 times in the mock and got all of the 7th round picks

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, harrisoncolts88 said:

How good is Dillard if added to the trade package? So far I've seen nothing but terrible RT play and injury about him. I mean it feels like adding more players to this trade (Ertz being on the wrong side of 30 and salary cap concerns) plus Dillard (injury and unknown) starts to feel like what happens on this forum during mock drafts. Where people are like hey I traded 32 times in the mock and got all of the 7th round picks

Dillard was projected to be the starting LT before the injury

[NFLfan]

38 minutes ago, csmopar said:

PFF

 

Lol. I meant to cite your source.  Can you post the link where you found the stat?

 

[harrisoncolts88]

4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Dillard was projected to be the starting LT before the injury

 

Thank you! I know I made light of the trade but I think I would definitely do this for two 2nds (just wondering if the trade assets could be lowered because if the salary coming back).

 

Because then the Colts could hopefully revive Wentz, basically have a replacement for Burton (with Ertz), and a potential long term solution in Dillard. And then with the 1st round pick, get a starter at DE or CB. And who I love in the draft, Kadarius Toney.

 

And I'm still betting that a lot of players aren't re-signed this free agency by the Colts, that way Ballard can begin implementing his Compensatory pick strategy (my theory, no story link)

[The Fish]

44 minutes ago, stitches said:

It doesn't matter if it's the 4th or 5th guy. It matters if Ballard and Reich love the guy and think he can be a franchise QB. For all we know whoever it is might be no. 1 or no. 2 on their board.

Statistically, it most certainly does matter if it's the 4th or 5th guy as those have a extremely low chance of panning out, especially pitted against using extra draft capital to get said 4th or 5th guy. 

 

It matters a crap ton in my criteria. 

 

 

You don't pay 5 dollars for a 2 dollar scratcher 

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

yeah, wilson fell off big time. But if you look, the Seattle OL was decent the first few weeks of the season, 2-3 sacks a game, then fell apart with 5, 6, 5, 5, 4 ,5, sack games, starting with the vikings week 9.  After that beating, his QBR dropped from the 128-145 marks to 98, then 50. 73 etc. having only 1, 100+ QBR game the rest of 2020, meanwhile getting sacked like crazy.  

 

Wow, his starting center grades out at 18.8 for pass blocking?!?!!?

 

I will take him over most QB. 

 

I could not find the article from PFF that cites the stats; it is probably available to those who subscribe to PFF. Anyway, here is an article from PFF about Wilson and his "inviting" hits.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-russell-wilson-sacks-seattle-seahawks

[Moosejawcolt]

25 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

I always have a hard time with anonymous sources especially with the Eagles, because their locker room has been becoming more and more toxic every year.

 

They also say that the offensive line was good and the sacks were Wentz fault, I have a hard time believing that because their OL was practice squad and backups for most of the season, with their starting LT and RG starting the season injured (The RG Brandon Brooks being their best offensive lineman). They also lost Lane johnson for awhile and 2 other guards to IR.

 

Overall I see this as a Homer Eagles article that is justifying getting rid of Wentz.

I dont see this article as an indictment of Wentz at all. I think the article was well done. It just shares responsibilities amongst all the players.