QB Discussion and Preference Poll - Part 2.5

[PRnum1]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

So are you thinking that we will trade (2) 2nds a future 3rd for Wentz

 

Then use #21 to trade up for a QB?

 

I just don't see that.

No I'm saying the Wentz trade falls through and we get our qb of the future in the draft

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

So are you thinking that we will trade (2) 2nds a future 3rd for Wentz

 

Then use #21 to trade up for a QB?

 

I just don't see that.

[Fluke_33]

4 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Not sure who this is or if this is legitimate.

 

 

I'm about 20 minutes from norwood.  I can drive there and shout out of my car "How do you know?"  I'll report back on what nick says.

[BluesGirl]

4 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

No I'm saying the Wentz trade falls through and we get our qb of the future in the draft

The problem I see. If we go into the draft and do not have a vet QB signed then every team knows we need a QB and the asking price is gonna go up to make the trade.   If we don't sign Wentz them I have confidence that Ballard has something else in play 

 

I still think #21 is reserved for a position other than QB.  Whether by trade up in the draft or a player once FA opens 

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I'm about 20 minutes from norwood.  I can drive there and shout out of my car "How do you know?"  I'll report back on what nick says.

Can you get some updates on WCC/PAC 12 Basketball news

[krunk]

9 hours ago, csmopar said:

Link? And Wentz has no say in it ,legally, he has no , no-trade clause in his contract. They could trade him and he’d be stuck with it. 

Legally doesnt matter. Common sense tells you not to bet the whole farm on a guy who doesnt want to play for your team. Its a dangerous proposition for the team who acquires him. Especially at QB. Yeah they can force his hand buy you cant force a guys will. And if he gets there and puts on a clown show then theyll be left holding the bag.

[poilucelt]

10 minutes ago, w87r said:

So are you thinking that we will trade (2) 2nds a future 3rd for Wentz

 

Then use #21 to trade up for a QB?

 

I just don't see that.

in that Wentz-trade scenario I would think that Ballard would, if anything, be more inclined to trade DOWN and replace his traded 2nd round pick with one that could possibly be even higher than #54. There will still be promising OTs in the early-to-mid 2nd round, and he could perhaps add another 3rd round pick in exchange for #21.

[PeterBowman]

2 minutes ago, krunk said:

Legally doesnt matter. Common sense tells you not to bet the whole farm on a guy who doesnt want to play for your team. Its a dangerous proposition for the team who acquires him. Especially at QB. Yeah they can force his hand buy you cant force a guys will. And if he gets there and puts on a clown show then theyll be left holding the bag.

I guess a way to look at it is legally Philly could trade him anywhere but would it be wise for the Bears to pony up for someone who's not all in for being there 

[PRnum1]

3 minutes ago, BluesGirl said:

The problem I see. If we go into the draft and do not have a vet QB signed then every team knows we need a QB and the asking price is gonna go up to make the trade.   If we don't sign Wentz them I have confidence that Ballard has something else in play 

 

I still think #21 is reserved for a position other than QB.  Whether by trade up in the draft or a player once FA opens 

We'll have a vet qb signed. It will be a Fitz or Winston. A UFA where we don't have to give up picks. 

 

Keeping the 21st gives us options. If one of the top four qbs drop to 15, we'll be in striking distance to move up.

 

If the top 4 are gone then we'll use the 21st to take BPA or a position of need. Most likely a cb or pass rushing DE

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I'm about 20 minutes from norwood.  I can drive there and shout out of my car "How do you know?"  I'll report back on what nick says.

That would be the first actual reporting in this thread. 

[BluesGirl]

7 minutes ago, krunk said:

Legally doesnt matter. Common sense tells you not to bet the whole farm on a guy who doesnt want to play for your team. Its a dangerous proposition for the team who acquires him. Especially at QB. Yeah they can force his hand buy you cant force a guys will. And if he gets there and puts on a clown show then theyll be left holding the bag.

Maybe that is what is taking so long. Wentz and the Bears are discussing issues that that Wentz wants to address before he OK's it.    Just thinking out loud 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

in that Wentz-trade scenario I would think that Ballard would, if anything, be more inclined to trade DOWN and replace his traded 2nd round pick with one that could possibly be even higher than #54. There will still be promising OTs in the early-to-mid 2nd round, and he could perhaps add another 3rd round pick in exchange for #21.

I have a feeling CB will use the 21 if a OT/DE that he or the Coaching Staff Covets and wouldn’t be there 8n the early to mid 2nd 

[stitches]

25 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

There’s panic and hysteria all over THIS post.  I’ve never seen such hysteria from you.   I responded to the Moose in another post.   You can go read that.   No need to post the same twice. 

No, there is no panic and hysteria. There is frustration with YOU and your condescension. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Friendly reminder from TigerTown  

[w87r]

13 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

in that Wentz-trade scenario I would think that Ballard would, if anything, be more inclined to trade DOWN and replace his traded 2nd round pick with one that could possibly be even higher than #54. There will still be promising OTs in the early-to-mid 2nd round, and he could perhaps add another 3rd round pick in exchange for #21.

Yeah, I would suspect he would move back as well and recoup some picks. Depending who is setting there of course.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

No, there is no panic and hysteria. There is frustration with YOU and your condescension. 

 

I've sent you a private message.    Hope you read it.

 

Suffice to say we see the same thing differently.

 

[BluesGirl]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Friendly reminder from TigerTown  

 

[Mr.Debonair]

Is Chicago’s offer better or does Philly not want to let Reich get his hands on Wentz because he’ll possibly regain that MVP form

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

Yeah, I would suspect he would move back as well and recoup some picks. Depending who is setting there of course.

Agreed

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Is Chicago’s offer better or does Philly not want to let Reich get his hands on Wentz because he’ll possibly regain that MVP form

 

If you're Philly, do you care about anything other than the compensation package?

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Superman said:

 

If you're Philly, do you care about anything other than the compensation package?

I wouldn’t 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Is Chicago’s offer better or does Philly not want to let Reich get his hands on Wentz because he’ll possibly regain that MVP form

I think there is some truth to the Reich thing.

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If you're Philly, do you care about anything other than the compensation package?

Most likely not, I do think that if compensation is close though, they might take the Bears offer just to avoid any potential kick back of Wentz returned to form with Reich. That scenario has to at least be crossing their mind.

[zibby43]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If you're Philly, do you care about anything other than the compensation package?

 

I mostly agree with this.

 

Sometimes, if the organization is classy, they'll try to do right by the player (within the realm of reason).

 

Most recent example I can think of is Watt.  They could've gotten a late-round pick for him.  Instead, they did right by him and released him so he can pick his destination. 

[poilucelt]

16 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I have a feeling CB will use the 21 if a OT/DE that he or the Coaching Staff Covets and wouldn’t be there 8n the early to mid 2nd 

if someone like Darrisaw or maybe Rousseau or a freak athlete like Oweh is still there, I could see Ballard staying put and picking one of them (assuming he likes them).

 

if there's no one at #21 CB really loves, I could see him trying to trade #21 to someone like Atlanta for #35 and #68 if there's someone there the Falcons like. Or maybe to the Jets for #34 and #66?

 

or if CB and FR actually like Darnold, maybe send #21 and #54 to NYJ for Darnold, #34 and #66? Not a big Darnold fan myself (or Wentz) but I could see how maybe Ballard and Reich might look at Darnold's 2020 tape (especially his TD throw vs the Colts and even more so his scramble and TD throw vs the 49ers, which was Mahomesian) and say "we can fix him & he's still on his rookie contract"

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, poilucelt said:

if someone like Darrisaw or maybe Rousseau or a freak athlete like Oweh is still there, I could see Ballard staying put and picking one of them (assuming he likes them).

 

if there's no one at #21 CB really loves, I could see him trying to trade #21 to someone like Atlanta for #35 and #68 if there's someone there the Falcons like. Or maybe to the Jets for #34 and #66?

 

or if CB and FR actually like Darnold, maybe send #21 and #54 to NYJ for Darnold, #34 and #66? Not a big Darnold fan myself (or Wentz) but I could see how maybe Ballard and Reich might look at Darnold's 2020 tape (especially his TD throw vs the Colts and even more so his scramble and TD throw vs the 49ers, which was Mahomesian) and say "we can fix him & he's still on his rookie contract"

I agree

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

I mostly agree with this.

 

Sometimes, if the organization is classy, they'll try to do right by the player (within the realm of reason).

 

Most recent example I can think of is Watt.  They could've gotten a late-round pick for him.  Instead, they did right by him and released him so he can pick his destination. 

 

Sure, if there's no significant compensation in play, the team might agree to do something that's better for the player. If a team was calling the Texans and offering a third round pick, they wouldn't have released him, though. (And there's little classy about the Texans, lately.)

 

8 minutes ago, w87r said:

Most likely not, I do think that if compensation is close though, they might take the Bears offer just to avoid any potential kick back of Wentz returned to form with Reich. That scenario has to at least be crossing their mind.

 

Why? What difference does that make? If the Eagles want to move Wentz, why do they care whether he winds up looking good on a new team? I don't think any rational team builder is worried about that to the extent that they'd rather not send the player to a team that will be better for the player, because then the player will play well and make the trading team look bad. 

 

If that's the case, don't trade him. 

 

Or better yet, if you're ready to move on, negotiate conditional draft compensation, based on his performance in 2021. If he goes over 4,000 yards, you get a higher pick in return, or an extra pick. 

 

This whole 'they don't want him to connect with Reich' business is flimsy conspiracy theory, IMO. That can't be a major decision making factor.

[PRnum1]

45 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

in that Wentz-trade scenario I would think that Ballard would, if anything, be more inclined to trade DOWN and replace his traded 2nd round pick with one that could possibly be even higher than #54. There will still be promising OTs in the early-to-mid 2nd round, and he could perhaps add another 3rd round pick in exchange for #21.

If the Wentz trade goes through then that makes sense. Use the 21 to replenish the picks you lost

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

It might make some sense IF... you manage to get those vets from FA on long-term deals in an off-season where teams are short on cash. In general - you'd be making deals with en eye towards the future - pay cheap now, benefit for the duration of those contracts. In other words - you maximize the value of your cap the year when it's most valuable and less teams have much of it. My worry is that a lot of players will prefer 1 year deals rather than getting tied up for 3-4 years in the future when the market is almost certain to be depressed this year.  

 

If you are picking a player(or even worse - trading up for him) expecting him to fail you are better off not doing it at all. Ballard cannot go into the draft thinking like that. BTW worth pointing out that the alternative is kicking that decision down the road or getting a QB who is more expensive and/or less likely to succeed(if the Darnold and Wentz rumors are real). And in the next several years, we won't be in substantially better position to draft a QB, either. At some point Ballard will have to trust his evaluation and make a choice. 

 

 

You don't trade up for a player expecting them to fail you are expecting them to succeed.  The Bills traded up for Allen and it worked.  The Bears traded up for Trubisky and it didn't.  Trading up does not guarantee success. It is still a gamble.  You can still have success and win a SB without drafting the QB that gets it for you.  What happened this year?  Brady.  We almost made it with Rivers.  It looks like this year will be a veteran again.  That's okay.  Trust Ballard and Reich.

[poilucelt]

2 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

If the Wentz trade goes through then that makes sense. Use the 21 to replenish the picks you lost

it would be amusing if, after giving #54 to Howie, Ballard turned around and acquired a higher pick in Round Two than the Eagles' pick

 

oh, the humanity........

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

You don't trade up for a player expecting them to fail you are expecting them to succeed.  The Bills traded up for Allen and it worked.  The Bears traded up for Trubisky and it didn't.  Trading up does not guarantee success. It is still a gamble.  You can still have success and win a SB without drafting the QB that gets it for you.  What happened this year?  Brady.  We almost made it with Rivers.  It looks like this year will be a veteran again.  That's okay.  Trust Ballard and Reich.

Yep

 

[EastStreet]

On 2/15/2021 at 8:30 AM, NFLfan said:

 

I like Carr but I would not give much for him. I would trade for Wilson, especially if my team had the Colts OL. Oh my. I think you would win the Super Bowl. 

 

I can't recall if it was @stitches or @EastStreet who wrote that Wilson fell off towards the end of last season. That is true and I don't know the reason for it. But his OL is always bad. And for much of last season, it was Wilson who was being talked about for MVP. So, I think he has a lot left. I still would not give up 2 first and 2 seconds for him or any player, including Mahomes.

I mentioned it in some thread. I think he has one of the higher time to throws too, so he's not helping himself either.

[EastStreet]

On 2/15/2021 at 9:39 AM, Moosejawcolt said:

We shall c. I think Darnold will amount to nothing no matter where he ends up.

 

Could be. He's just a complete unknown to me. I just know he looked good in college when he had a decent team around him. Now he has garbage.

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

You don't trade up for a player expecting them to fail you are expecting them to succeed.  The Bills traded up for Allen and it worked.  The Bears traded up for Trubisky and it didn't.  Trading up does not guarantee success. It is still a gamble.  You can still have success and win a SB without drafting the QB that gets it for you.  What happened this year?  Brady.  We almost made it with Rivers.  It looks like this year will be a veteran again.  That's okay.  Trust Ballard and Reich.

Brady is the answer to a lot of questions that don't happen very often unless he's involved. I think he's the exception rather than the rule most of the time. I don't think we had a realistic shot at a Superbowl with Rivers. 

 

Nobody is saying there is no risk in drafting a QB. But people need to realize there is a risk involved in putting your assets and money in players like Darnold and Wentz too. This is not a surefire thing vs gamble situation. This is two different propositions with their own pros and cons. I just think one of them is better than the other one. 

 

Otherwise - yes... trust Ballard and Reich... and hopefully they go for their guy in the draft, in which case I will trust them even more.  

[PrincetonTiger]

In his latest mock Daniel Jeremiah has Mac Jones falling past 5he Colts

 

@BProland85

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Conspiracy theory. Rivers will come out of retirement if colts can’t find a QB. Lol. Just joking he is probably still here to let his kids finish school year.

 

 

[BlackTiger]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

In his latest mock Daniel Jeremiah has Mac Jones falling past 5he Colts

 

@BProland85

The Colts are hard to mock right now, they pretty much have to make an assumption about what we do with our QB situation in free agency or trades.  Who knows what will really happen 

[jvan1973]

23 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

If the Wentz trade goes through then that makes sense. Use the 21 to replenish the picks you lost

You can't replenish it.    You're losing 21 in the process

[w87r]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

Why? What difference does that make? If the Eagles want to move Wentz, why do they care whether he winds up looking good on a new team? I don't think any rational team builder is worried about that to the extent that they'd rather not send the player to a team that will be better for the player, because then the player will play well and make the trading team look bad. 

 

If that's the case, don't trade him. 

 

Or better yet, if you're ready to move on, negotiate conditional draft compensation, based on his performance in 2021. If he goes over 4,000 yards, you get a higher pick in return, or an extra pick. 

 

This whole 'they don't want him to connect with Reich' business is flimsy conspiracy theory, IMO. That can't be a major decision making factor.

I don't think the Eagles want Wentz to look good on any team. If that happens and Hurts underperforms, it will look like they made a bad decision. 

 

As far as conditional picks, I imagine that is probably in the cards. Maybe the 3rd/or 4th in future, if reports of offer are correct.

 

I don't think it is much of a conspiracy theory that the Eagles could potentially have some apprehension about reuniting Wentz with Reich. 

 

As I stated originally though, if compensation is close, I think they send him to Bears.

[EastStreet]

On 2/15/2021 at 9:43 AM, Moosejawcolt said:

https://www.discussthegame.com/posts/5f2587350b0cf30004326d7a

A basketball player write up?

I agree his season wasn't bad, but Embiid cherry picked some stats, ignored a lot, and also was plain wrong on a few points.

One of the big misses....

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season