QB Discussion and Preference Poll - Part 2.5

[chickenMan]

9 minutes ago, The Fish said:

No one who lives there actually eats the deep dish unless they've got friends coming from out of town.. it's a generational thing too

 

Chicago is awesome if you're into hanging out at lot's of different bars/clubs. By in large, the rest of what's going on there can be had in the rest of the midwest, you might have to look a little harder though. I'm guessing Wentz is probably not concerned with much beyond who's the coach and some skill guys around either potential team.

I would actually wage otherwise. Coaches and overall team are definitely more important, but if I was an NFL player I would definitely care about location, weather, politics, taxes I’ll be paying, etc. I don’t know if any of those things would overrule the football aspect, but they would definitely at least be in the back of my mind if I’m being traded. Like, let’s say my team is considering moving me to either KC or TB. The two best teams in the league, but I personally would enjoy TB more because of weather, where my home would be, etc

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

Can't wait for your full scouting report on him and the other top QBs. 

 

No pressure, right? 

[BluesGirl]

44 minutes ago, The Fish said:

No one who lives there actually eats the deep dish unless they've got friends coming from out of town.. it's a generational thing too

 

Chicago is awesome if you're into hanging out at lot's of different bars/clubs. By in large, the rest of what's going on there can be had in the rest of the midwest, you might have to look a little harder though. I'm guessing Wentz is probably not concerned with much beyond who's the coach and some skill guys around either potential team.

Au Cheval.  is my favorite.   Best burgers anywhere

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The D is not close to being elite. Rhodes may not be back and Sin really struggles. The D line is getting older with no young guns to replace them. Blackmon struggled in 2nd half of season in pass coverage. 

I appreciate that you’re writing this in all seriousness....   but, in case you didn’t notice, much of it plays like Comedy!   I know it’s unintentional, but this is some great stuff!      

[stitches]

30 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No pressure, right? 

That's how we like our QBs - with no pressure.... 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

39 minutes ago, Superman said:

Nice breakdown here, got this from Reddit. Deep ball passing.

 

 

 

“Deep ball passing”...

 

Now all I can think of is Bruce Adrians!

 

[stitches]

 

 

 

[chad72]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

 

“Deep ball passing”...

 

Now all I can think of is Bruce Adrians!

 

 

Once he made sacrifices to the deep ball passing philosophy, that is when the SB came.  

 

They still convinced Tom Brady to go Joe Flacco at the end of the first half to throw it out there and get a TD or a PI, lol.  

 

 

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

 

 

Me like it!!!  

[stitches]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

Once he made sacrifices to the deep ball passing philosophy, that is when the SB came.  

 

They still convinced Tom Brady to go Joe Flacco at the end of the first half to throw it out there and get a TD or a PI, lol.  

 

 

 

Me like it!!!  

More and more Colts analysts are coming to the same conclusion. Here's another one:

 

 

Kevin Bowen is another one who thinks the way to go is drafting a QB. 

 

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

 

“Deep ball passing”...

 

Now all I can think of is Bruce Adrians!

 

 

Coincidentally, Tom Brady led the league in deep ball attempts in 2020, with 88. Second in attempts was Aaron Rodgers, with 71. That's a big gap. Of course, Rodgers was more effective and efficient, but Brady was no slouch with 12 TDs and 1200 yards on deep balls.

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

 

Makes very little sense.  You only do that if you are trying to win now with a veteran.  What if you do that and trade picks and your new rookie QB is not what you thought he was or has other problems.  You are stuck with no high draft picks and little cap space.  I don't think Ballard will take that kind of risk.  No way.  

[Mr. Irrelevant]

5 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Makes very little sense.  You only do that if you are trying to win now with a veteran.  What if you do that and trade picks and your new rookie QB is not what you thought he was or has other problems.  You are stuck with no high draft picks and little cap space.  I don't think Ballard will take that kind of risk.  No way.  

 

I still don’t see how we will have enough draft capital to truly go to the top, but if you see someone that you really love, want and believe in you have to take the chance. 

[Moosejawcolt]

42 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I appreciate that you’re writing this in all seriousness....   but, in case you didn’t notice, much of it plays like Comedy!   I know it’s unintentional, but this is some great stuff!      

Thanks.  I am a smart ... in real life. 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

We have all of free agency and the draft to fix things.

So do other teams 

[stitches]

14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Makes very little sense.  You only do that if you are trying to win now with a veteran.  What if you do that and trade picks and your new rookie QB is not what you thought he was or has other problems.  You are stuck with no high draft picks and little cap space.  I don't think Ballard will take that kind of risk.  No way.  

It might make some sense IF... you manage to get those vets from FA on long-term deals in an off-season where teams are short on cash. In general - you'd be making deals with en eye towards the future - pay cheap now, benefit for the duration of those contracts. In other words - you maximize the value of your cap the year when it's most valuable and less teams have much of it. My worry is that a lot of players will prefer 1 year deals rather than getting tied up for 3-4 years in the future when the market is almost certain to be depressed this year.  

 

If you are picking a player(or even worse - trading up for him) expecting him to fail you are better off not doing it at all. Ballard cannot go into the draft thinking like that. BTW worth pointing out that the alternative is kicking that decision down the road or getting a QB who is more expensive and/or less likely to succeed(if the Darnold and Wentz rumors are real). And in the next several years, we won't be in substantially better position to draft a QB, either. At some point Ballard will have to trust his evaluation and make a choice. 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Sorry, you are wrong if you think this defense is not close to being elite.

They are ranked 11th overall in the league. 

 #1 on points against us.

 #2 against the run

 #5 in takeaways

Those are traits of an elite defense. Saying they are not close is wrong and you know it.

 

 

 

Look at how they performed against balanced offences with a good qb?

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

So do other teams 

Not really.    Many teams are strapped by the cap

[stitches]

50 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I appreciate that you’re writing this in all seriousness....   but, in case you didn’t notice, much of it plays like Comedy!   I know it’s unintentional, but this is some great stuff!      

What is so funny about his post? Pretty much all of it was true? 

[poilucelt]

15 hours ago, HectorRoberts said:

I have told you over and over again! Just give me me your next 3 1st rounds and the next 2 2nd rounds then you can have my #35 ranked qb! Your getting a deal really!

"I'll even throw in as a favor to you the privilege of swallowing Ertz's contract" 

[stitches]

4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The D is not close to being elite. Rhodes may not be back and Sin really struggles. The D line is getting older with no young guns to replace them. Blackmon struggled in 2nd half of season in pass coverage. 

Absolutely agree. This D was average to good but nowhere close to elite. Our run defense was elite, but our pass-defense was firmly below average. This defense was held above water thanks to a ton of takeaways. And those are notoriously unstable year to year. 

 

And to add to this... what's more worrying is that right now both our starting CBs and both our starting DEs are free agents, so we don't really know what the future holds at those positions with very limited resources to try to address all of them... in addition to QB and LT and WR... 

[Smoke317]

2 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

Are you saying he is getting the Trubisky treatment. Both of them seemed to come out of nowhere and everyone began talking about them. Wilson is better though.

 

I have to ask my QB guru @stitches what he thinks of the comparison. 

 

Btw, Smoke, you seem to watch college football. I had tagged you in the Gavin Mock Draft thread. There are still a few teams that need GMs. Interested?

 

I think Trubisky was much more of an unknown because he only played 1 year.  Wilson got in and played toward the end of his freshman year and played pretty well.  Then his sophomore was very up and down.  But he actually beat Tennessee & USC that year.  What you saw was good to bad performances against better opponents not very many great games.  On the whole though, I definitely think he's a better QB than Trubisky. 

 

I think he's the 3rd best QB in this draft but there is still a large element of unknown and bust potential with him.  If he had a normal season and faced more adversity, he might have fallen to the teens or late first and he would be perfect for teams like the Colts or 49ers to grab and stash him for a year and then unleash him the next season.  Now he'll probably end up drafted higher and to a poor team where he will face more pressure and adversity and most likely be on the inferior team more often than not.

 

As for the mock draft, I'll jump over there and pick a team.  I was reluctant at first because I only wanted to pick for the Colts and move up and take Fields or Wilson in the draft.  

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, stitches said:

Absolutely agree. This D was average to good but nowhere close to elite. Our run defense was elite, but our pass-defense was firmly below average. This defense was held above water thanks to a ton of takeaways. And those are notoriously unstable year to year. 

 

And to add to this... what's more worrying is that right now both our starting CBs and both our starting DEs are free agents, so we don't really know what the future holds at those positions with very limited resources to try to address all of them... in addition to QB and LT and WR... 

 

I expect some posters to be of the "Harry Hysterical" variety.   People who panic all the time.   I don't expect it from you.

 

Do you know what the biggest problem with the post is?   People here panic at this time of year because they don't know what Ballard's moves are going to be?    People act as if we're playing a game this Sunday.   And, for a variety of reasons, there are more question marks this year than others,  so there are more people panicking over what we might do than any other year in Ballard's tenure.    There are answers to every question.    Just because we don't know the answer now doesn't mean there isn't a good one with Ballard.

 

So, the D may not be elite,  but it's top-10 and should get better.     And the team is filled with young players,  and the general rule with young players is they get better as they get older.    And I think Colts fan should expect that many of our young players should get better as they age.

 

I know, I know, I know....   you're going to tell me you're not panicking.   And I'm going to tell you I don't even recognize you this off-season.  More fear driven posts.   And you're not alone.    Tons of posters are going crazy this year because there's so much unknown and things are moving slowly.    For now.   But things are about to pick up.   Pro Days.   Free Agency.  Rumors.   Some facts.  And then the draft.    And the answers will be clearer.   There will still be another wave of late free agent signings, especially this year with the cap craziness.   But there will be answers to all the questions.

 

Some posters LOVE to scream "The Sky is FALLING!" over and over.    This poster I responded to is one of them.   I often can't tell how serious is he or whether he's just trolling?  I expect that from some posters.   Not from you.   Don't fall for the Con.    There are better days ahead.   Even if it doesn't look like it now.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The D is not close to being elite. Rhodes may not be back and Sin really struggles. The D line is getting older with no young guns to replace them. Blackmon struggled in 2nd half of season in pass coverage. 

 

The D is not elite,  but it IS top 10.   For now.   And it's young, so it should get better.

 

If Rhodes isn't back,  Ballard will sign someone to replace him.   Rock had a terrible 2nd year,  but an excellent 2nd half of his rookie season.    If it did it once, he should be able to do it again.    The  D-line is one of the YOUNGEST in the NFL.   There are only TWO players in their 30's.   Both played well.  Likely one, or possibly both may be back.   And if not,  Ballard has a plan to replace.  Otherwise,  there is tons of youth.   Blackmon struggled in the month of December.   The 4th quarter of a 4 quarter season.  And his first 3 months were so good,  that THAT is what we should more likely expect.    Not the classic hitting the rookie wall that so many experience.

 

The Sky is NOT falling.    Just because you don't know what the team will look like in July while we're here in February doesn't mean there isn't a plan.    Just because you don't know the answers to the questions you have doesn't mean there aren't any answers.    I appreciate that "negative" is your default position.   That seeing the glass "half empty" is your default position.  But the Colts off-season isn't as negative as you'd like to portray it.   It's true about most of your posts.   Seeing the positive is nearly impossible for you. 

[BluesGirl]

This is going to one of the most exciting off seasons the Colts have had in a long long time.  Maybe ever  Getting Luck was probably the best in my lifetime 

 

I'm excited to see how it all unfolds    No panic from me for sure.    I lean toward the @PrincetonTiger motto.   

 

It's so much more fun than puling your hair out. LOL.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Colin is smoking something lol. Bears haven’t proved they know what they are doing on offense. But he does say here it might be getting close to a trade. 

 

 

[BluesGirl]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Colin is smoking something lol. Bears haven’t proved they know what they are doing on offense. But he does say here it might be getting close to a trade. 

 

 

IF Wentz goes to the Bears and fails like every other QB to ever go there.  Everyone will be saying "See I told you he sucked"

 

If they get him we should grab Trubisky turn him into a great QB and rub it in their face 

[PrincetonTiger]

7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Colin is smoking something lol. Bears haven’t proved they know what they are doing on offense. But he does say here it might be getting close to a trade. 

 

 

What is new with CC

[BProland85]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

 

 

 

 

This would be the year to trade up for Indy's longterm franchise QB. Indy has the roster to support a rookie to where they could be successful immediately, especially with the fact that Reich gets the best out of his QBs. 

 

There will be some good FA DEs available this year. Some of them include Carl Lawson, Romeo Okwara, & Yannick Ngakoue. Indy has the cap flexibility to find quality players in FA at positions of need (CB, DE, LT) to allow them to get their guy at QB in the draft if they wanted. 

[coming on strong]

1 hour ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

 

I still don’t see how we will have enough draft capital to truly go to the top, but if you see someone that you really love, want and believe in you have to take the chance. 

colts will have to trade next years first and probably a second this year to move up into the top ten .  to move up to the top 4 to get a franchise guy will probably cost 3 1st rounders .  colts would have to trade this years first and the next two years firsts to move up

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, coming on strong said:

colts will have to trade next years first and probably a second this year to move up into the top ten .  to move up to the top 4 to get a franchise guy will probably cost 3 1st rounders .  colts would have to trade this years first and the next two years firsts to move up

Too expensive in TigerTown 

 

 

[coming on strong]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Too expensive in TigerTown 

 

 

what really is screwing up the situation is covid . At least if the colts could watch eason better last offseason and preseason they would have a better idea if he is a long term answer .   The bears are over the cap which i believe is holding them back from  trading so are the eagles so how will they trade wentz then ?unless the bears or eagles are unloading a bunch of players for wentz i think the colts can still get wentz for two 2nd rounders  .  then use their first for a left tackle  and if the eagles eat up ten million the colts would get wentz for the same price they got rivers for last year and can spend on defensive end and corner in free agency and then go and get a wr in the 3rd round

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

For us to get a QB in the draft it will most likely have to be taken somewhere after ten. Around where Mahomes and Watson went.  No way we can move up into the top five. Unless we trade a player first to get higher. Teams don’t want to drop from 4 to 21. 

[coming on strong]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

For us to get a QB in the draft it will most likely have to be taken somewhere after ten. Around where Mahomes and Watson went.  No way we can move up into the top five. Unless we trade a player first to get higher. Teams don’t want to drop from 4 to 21. 

ballard already said once you get out of the first ten this year no other QB is worth a first round pick .    colts have to trade their future to draft a QB or get wentz or matt ryan

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If Wentz truly wanted to be a colt he could offer to re do his contract making it easier on the eagles cap wise.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

12 minutes ago, BluesGirl said:

IF Wentz goes to the Bears and fails like every other QB to ever go there.  Everyone will be saying "See I told you he sucked"

 

If they get him we should grab Trubisky turn him into a great QB and rub it in their face 

Which is why he should be praying he comes to the colts. Could be the difference in his career being over or being a star again. 

[BluesGirl]

11 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

colts will have to trade next years first and probably a second this year to move up into the top ten .  to move up to the top 4 to get a franchise guy will probably cost 3 1st rounders .  colts would have to trade this years first and the next two years firsts to move up

Something to think about.   Ballard can probably get some of those picks back if he trades players in the next couple of years as they enter their final yr of contract.      I only say this because Ballard is the master of the 2-3 round picks to replace some of those guys    Anyway food for thought 

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Which is why he should be praying he comes to the colts. Could be the difference in his career being over or being a star again. 

I think he is. LOL 

[PRnum1]

7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

For us to get a QB in the draft it will most likely have to be taken somewhere after ten. Around where Mahomes and Watson went.  No way we can move up into the top five. Unless we trade a player first to get higher. Teams don’t want to drop from 4 to 21. 

I suspect this is why CB is so reluctant to trade away the 21st pick.

 

He is gambling that one of the top 4 qbs fall to 15.

 

Then he can trade up to 14 right before the pats who are qb needy.

 

Going from 21 to 14 wouldn't be that bad

[stitches]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I expect some posters to be of the "Harry Hysterical" variety.   People who panic all the time.   I don't expect it from you.

 

Do you know what the biggest problem with the post is?   People here panic at this time of year because they don't know what Ballard's moves are going to be?    People act as if we're playing a game this Sunday.   And, for a variety of reasons, there are more question marks this year than others,  so there are more people panicking over what we might do than any other year in Ballard's tenure.    There are answers to every question.    Just because we don't know the answer now doesn't mean there isn't a good one with Ballard.

There is NO problem with his post at all. Save me that emotional nonsense. He stated all FACTS. No interpretations, no panic, no hysteria. I think you are projecting a bit here. Here's his post word by word... 

 

 

Quote

The D is not close to being elite.

FACT! And you admited to it not being elite, too. 

 

Quote

Rhodes may not be back

Fact! 

Quote

and Sin really struggles.

Fact! 

Quote

The D line is getting older with no young guns to replace them.

Fact! Well... unless we lose the only good outside CBs and DEs on this roster ... who are aging. 

Quote

Blackmon struggled in 2nd half of season in pass coverage. 

Fact! 

 

Now tell me where the panic and hysteria is in that post? It would be nice if you stopped with your condescencion towards posters you disagree with. Especially when all they are doing is listing up factual information. You may not like the conclusions those fact lead some people to, but you can argue those in good faith and without being an *about it, especially when those conclusions in this case are perfectly reasonable. 

 

Quote

So, the D may not be elite,  but it's top-10 and should get better.     And the team is filled with young players,  and the general rule with young players is they get better as they get older.    And I think Colts fan should expect that many of our young players should get better as they age.

The team is filled with young players and a lot of them have shown very little to be counted as anything close to a sure thing. Yes, some of them might improve but it's not like we've seen enough from most of them to inspire any confidence. Even if they improve they will have to improve by a ton to get to a level where they will be helping this team become elite defensively. What do you expect from Banagu, Lewis, Turay, Rock, Tell(after missing a full year), Speed, Franklin, Adams...  Is it reasonable to expect much from them at this point? 

 

The only young players who have shown any sort of consistency and ability to be difference makers with development are our LBs and safeties... and maybe Kemoko, but after that horrific injury(for which he's having ANOTHER surgery BTW) I just can't bring myself to have a lot of hope for him. 

 

Quote

I know, I know, I know....   you're going to tell me you're not panicking.   And I'm going to tell you I don't even recognize you this off-season.  More fear driven posts.   And you're not alone.    Tons of posters are going crazy this year because there's so much unknown and things are moving slowly.    For now.   But things are about to pick up.   Pro Days.   Free Agency.  Rumors.   Some facts.  And then the draft.    And the answers will be clearer.   There will still be another wave of late free agent signings, especially this year with the cap craziness.   But there will be answers to all the questions.

I'm good with the unknown. I have no idea what you are talking about. The problem is not with what we don't know, the problem is with what we do know. Tons of high priority positions losing their starters(pretty much all of them) and very limited resources to address those departures. I will keep repeating it, because some people don't seem to grasp the gravity of the situation here - QB, LT, WR(or 2), 2xDE, 2xCB, MIKE, 2xTE... those are positions that need addressing. You have 70M to do it and a draft class(for which you have to pay about 10 of those 70M). If you don't think this will be at the very least challenging, I don't know what to tell you. I have no doubt there will be bargain contracts and late signings. There will have to be because we don't have the resources to fill all those starting spots with great talent. Which again - I'm OK with... but you need to have realistic expectations about what this will entail. Filling your roster with the Autries and Carries of the world brings some stability, but doesn't bring elite, which is what that whole argument was about. At this point I would be absolutely shocked if Ballard managed to build an elite defense for next year. IMO it's much more likely we take a step back defensively than step forward. I will be happy to revisit this one when the roster is set, but I don't see a viable path to elite here. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. 

 

Quote

Some posters LOVE to scream "The Sky is FALLING!" over and over.    This poster I responded to is one of them.   I often can't tell how serious is he or whether he's just trolling?  I expect that from some posters.   Not from you.   Don't fall for the Con.    There are better days ahead.   Even if it doesn't look like it now.

Again I would prefer a bit less condescention and a bit more addressing the actual points being made rather than some weird mind and emotion-reading into what people meant. I have not seen much of any "sky is falling" type arguments here and I don't think the sky is falling either myself. I think we are well set with some good talent at certain positions, but I also think most of our high value positions are bare and need addressing. And unfortunately for our defense's success - pretty much all of the most important pass-defense positions need addressing. This just doesn't bode well for the prospects of an elite defense. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

There is NO problem with his post at all. Save me that emotional nonsense. He stated all FACTS. No interpretations, no panic, no hysteria. I think you are projecting a bit here. Here's his post word by word... 

 

 

FACT! And you admited to it not being elite, too. 

 

Fact! 

Fact! 

Fact! Well... unless we lose the only good outside CBs and DEs on this roster ... who are aging. 

Fact! 

 

Now tell me where the panic and hysteria is in that post? It would be nice if you stopped with your condescencion towards posters you disagree with. Especially when all they are doing is listing up factual information. You may not like the conclusions those fact lead some people to, but you can argue those in good faith and without being an *about it, especially when those conclusions in this case are perfectly reasonable. 

 

The team is filled with young players and a lot of them have shown very little to be counted as anything close to a sure thing. Yes, some of them might improve but it's not like we've seen enough from most of them to inspire any confidence. Even if they improve they will have to improve by a ton to get to a level where they will be helping this team become elite defensively. What do you expect from Banagu, Lewis, Turay, Rock, Tell(after missing a full year), Speed, Franklin, Adams...  Is it reasonable to expect much from them at this point? 

 

The only young players who have shown any sort of consistency and ability to be difference makers with development are our LBs and safeties... and maybe Kemoko, but after that horrific injury(for which he's having ANOTHER surgery BTW) I just can't bring myself to have a lot of hope for him. 

 

I'm good with the unknown. I have no idea what you are talking about. The problem is not with what we don't know, the problem is with what we do know. Tons of high priority positions losing their starters(pretty much all of them) and very limited resources to address those departures. I will keep repeating it, because some people don't seem to grasp the gravity of the situation here - QB, LT, WR(or 2), 2xDE, 2xCB, MIKE, 2xTE... those are positions that need addressing. You have 70M to do it and a draft class(for which you have to pay about 10 of those 70M). If you don't think this will be at the very least challenging, I don't know what to tell you. I have no doubt there will be bargain contracts and late signings. There will have to be because we don't have the resources to fill all those starting spots with great talent. Which again - I'm OK with... but you need to have realistic expectations about what this will entail. Filling your roster with the Autries and Carries of the world brings some stability, but doesn't bring elite, which is what that whole argument was about. At this point I would be absolutely shocked if Ballard managed to build an elite defense for next year. IMO it's much more likely we take a step back defensively than step forward. I will be happy to revisit this one when the roster is set, but I don't see a viable path to elite here. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. 

 

Again I would prefer a bit less condescention and a bit more addressing the actual points being made rather than some weird mind and emotion-reading into what people meant. I have not seen any much of any "sky is falling" type arguments here and I don't think the sky is falling either myself. I think we well set with some good talent at certain positions, but I also think most of our high value positions are bare and need addressing. 

There’s panic and hysteria all over THIS post.  I’ve never seen such hysteria from you.   I responded to the Moose in another post.   You can go read that.   No need to post the same twice. 

[w87r]

3 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

I suspect this is why CB is so reluctant to trade away the 21st pick.

 

He is gambling that one of the top 4 qbs fall to 15.

 

Then he can trade up to 14 right before the pats who are qb needy.

 

Going from 21 to 14 wouldn't be that bad

So are you thinking that we will trade (2) 2nds a future 3rd for Wentz

 

Then use #21 to trade up for a QB?

 

I just don't see that.