QB Discussion and Preference Poll - Part 2.5

[danlhart87]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Oh I know but Carr isn’t that much better than Wentz in my opinion. He had one, maybe two stand out years and he’s been nothing since. I would be okay with Carr for the same offer we allegedly have made for Wentz. 2 twos and a conditional 3rd

What’d you get again?

But remember Eagles want a 1st too for Wentz. Theres a reason that deal has not happened yet and hopefully never will.

 

Ballard made his offer

Roseman wants a 1st too

 

Ballard be like 

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, w87r said:

 

 

So I got:

#3

#8

#50

And moved up 9 slots in the 4th

 

For 

 

Watson AND Tua 

 

[EastStreet]

Just now, csmopar said:

That’s exactly how I feel right now

It's really how every fan should feel. At least as far as "whoever we get, hope for the best".... 

I've been critical of Wentz, and have doubts about him, but I'd rather be totally wrong about him, than right (if we got him) lol..

 

I'm fine with taking a guy that needs to be fixed (like Wentz), or even a mysterious wildcard (like Darnold). I just don't want low ceiling mediocrity. I'd rather roll the dice on someone that might turn out to be good, and fail big, then choose a known 8-8ish type of good.

[w87r]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

I turned Watson assets into that final package.

 

So essentially got all that for Watson.

[PRnum1]

53 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Lol. He is getting bad at making stuff up. This would be a horrible deal for the eagles.

 

 

That would be a great deal for us.

 

If we could get Wince and Dillard for our second and throw in Rock, I would do it !

[chickenMan]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It's really how every fan should feel. At least as far as "whoever we get, hope for the best".... 

I've been critical of Wentz, and have doubts about him, but I'd rather be totally wrong about him, than right (if we got him) lol..

 

I'm fine with taking a guy that needs to be fixed (like Wentz), or even a mysterious wildcard (like Darnold). I just don't want low ceiling mediocrity. I'd rather roll the dice on someone that might turn out to be good, and fail big, then choose a known 8-8ish type of good.

But then what would we complain about on this forum?

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, chickenMan said:

But then what would we complain about on this forum?

Everyone will still complain regardless. 

I will. I just hope I won't need to...

[csmopar]

11 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

But remember Eagles want a 1st too for Wentz. Theres a reason that deal has not happened yet and hopefully never will.

 

Ballard made his offer

Roseman wants a 1st too

 

Ballard be like 

I get that. But honestly, I see the Rams lion trade as an outlier between two historically questionable at best teams. Outside of Watson, I’d be surprised if we see similar block buster trades 

7 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

But then what would we complain about on this forum?

Going for it on 4th down?

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

I get that. But honestly, I see the Rams lion trade as an outlier between two historically questionable at best teams. Outside of Watson, I’d be surprised if we see similar block buster trades 

Going for it on 4th down?

Lol ik there's also 0 chance Texans end up with 3rd and 8th pick but its fun. Tua was traded 2x.

 

Its fun though 

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Lol ik there's also 0 chance Texans end up with 3rd and 8th pick but its fun. Tua was traded 2x.

 

Its fun though 

Seems kind of Madden-esk but it is fun

[John Waylon]

So...

 

Any updates?

 

[csmopar]

16 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

So...

 

Any updates?

 

Nope

[EastStreet]

40 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

So...

 

Any updates?

 

 

Here's the only meaningful thing I read today. And it's not all the meaningful to be honest.

I guess it's meaningful, but it's already been kinda kicked around.

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2021/2/16/22286400/report-bears-have-pushed-harder-than-colts-for-qb-carson-wentz

[Orioles22]

Interesting. It seems Wentz could force his way to Indy and we wouldn't give up as much as Chicago would have.

[poilucelt]

5 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

You can't replenish it.    You're losing 21 in the process

the point of a trade like this would be if a GM (like Ballard) was convinced he could get someone at #34 he likes almost as much as, if not as much as, anyone still available at #21. If so, he might be inclined to make the trade and, in doing so, add an additional pick such as #66 in the example.

 

Ballard's been fairly clear in the past that, in most drafts, he feels there are only typically 15-18 picks who are actually "first round quality" and after that it's the individual preference of a given franchise's GM.

[John Waylon]

So he’s all about us and we’re just kinda warm to the idea of him. 
 

Boy, this relationship is already starting out weird. 

[EastStreet]

48 minutes ago, Orioles22 said:

Interesting. It seems Wentz could force his way to Indy and we wouldn't give up as much as Chicago would have.

I don't think he can force anything (he doesn't have a no trade clause), but he could cause a stink. 

 

Regardless, it help the Colts. 

13 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

So he’s all about us and we’re just kinda warm to the idea of him. 
 

Boy, this relationship is already starting out weird. 

Chicago FO seems to all about him, and he's meh on them. The fans in Chicago seem to be pretty meh too.

 

At the end of the day, where ever he ends up, fans might be meh to start out with, but he's in control ultimately of how it turns out. In Indy, he'd have a great OL, running game, and FO. It's up to him if he sinks or swims. I'm pretty meh on the who situation, but I'd would love to become a huge Wentz fan, because that would mean he comes and balls out.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I don't think he can force anything (he doesn't have a no trade clause), but he could cause a stink. 

 

Regardless, it help the Colts. 

Chicago FO seems to all about him, and he's meh on them. The fans in Chicago seem to be pretty meh too.

 

At the end of the day, where ever he ends up, fans might be meh to start out with, but he's in control ultimately of how it turns out. In Indy, he'd have a great OL, running game, and FO. It's up to him if he sinks or swims. I'm pretty meh on the who situation, but I'd would love to become a huge Wentz fan, because that would mean he comes and balls out.

I think another problem I am having with Wentz and other QB's like Trubisky and Darnold is, I don't see any of them being better than what Rivers was this past season. Those QB's aren't the leader Rivers was, Rivers also completed 68% of his passes, and he took good care of the ball with only 11 INT's.  Not to mention he could still sling it from time to time as he passed for over 4000 yards. The team also went 11-5, so the team as a whole just clicked with Rivers at QB. With Rivers we didn't even make the AFC Title Game so if we trade for any of the 3 I mentioned above, what makes people think we will go deep into the playoffs with any of those guys? I think a QB like Matt Ryan would be similar to having Rivers but may be a tad better because he's 3 years younger. 

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think another problem I am having with Wentz and other QB's like Trubisky and Darnold is, I don't see any of them being better than what Rivers was this past season. Those QB's aren't the leader Rivers was, Rivers also completed 68% of his passes, and he took good care of the ball with only 11 INT's.  Not to mention he could still sling it from time to time as he passed for over 4000 yards. The team also went 11-5, so the team as a whole just clicked with Rivers at QB. With Rivers we didn't even make the AFC Title Game so if we trade for any of the 3 I mentioned above, what makes people think we will go deep into the playoffs with any of those guys? I think a QB like Matt Ryan would be similar to having Rivers but may be a tad better because he's 3 years younger. 

I agree to an extent, but you could also say "what if he can return to 2017 form" when it comes to Wentz. It's a fair point. Or what if Darnold could look like his days at USC with a decent OL and team around him. 

 

I agree 100% on the leadership point though. And just remember, a lot of people were very meh on Rivers to start with. Some even still were meh even after putting up top 10ish stats in most category. 

 

Personally, out of all those that have been talked about, Stafford, Ryan, and Carr are probably my favs when PR announced his retirement. Stafford is gone, Ryan is highly unlikely as is Carr. So we're no looking at all the "unknowns" and "guys that need fixing"... I'll take either of those two categories over a 2019 type year.

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think another problem I am having with Wentz and other QB's like Trubisky and Darnold is, I don't see any of them being better than what Rivers was this past season. Those QB's aren't the leader Rivers was, Rivers also completed 68% of his passes, and he took good care of the ball with only 11 INT's.  Not to mention he could still sling it from time to time as he passed for over 4000 yards. The team also went 11-5, so the team as a whole just clicked with Rivers at QB. With Rivers we didn't even make the AFC Title Game so if we trade for any of the 3 I mentioned above, what makes people think we will go deep into the playoffs with any of those guys? I think a QB like Matt Ryan would be similar to having Rivers but may be a tad better because he's 3 years younger. 

 

NFM

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

NFM

 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

So it sounds like the entire website is in agreement!   

Since we can’t get a QB better than Rivers let’s simply not have a QB this year.    Let’s run the Wildcat?!  Just have Taylor and Hines and Wilkins take turns taking direct snaps from center and just run every down?!    Who needs to throw?   Just run!  Run!   Run!

 

Is it too late to apologize to old Noodle Arm and BEG HIM to come back?!?     

 

     Sigh...

 

 

I think the people that were calling him noodle arm and saying we wouldn't even make the playoffs with Rivers should apologize. I for one loved the signing when we got Rivers and predicted a 10-6 record + a playoff berth. He even played better than I thought but I wasn't surprised. I thought he would be good. I just seen several in here bashing Rivers but yet they want Wentz here. I am a little confused with that is all.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think the people that were calling him noodle arm and saying we wouldn't even make the playoffs with Rivers should apologize. I for one loved the signing when we got Rivers and predicted a 10-6 record + a playoff berth. He even played better than I thought but I wasn't surprised. I thought he would be good. I just seen several in here bashing Rivers but yet they want Wentz here. I am a little confused with that is all.

I will add to this, if we trade for Wentz and he leads us to at least a Playoff berth I will be the 1st to apologize and say I wrong about him. I am a stand up guy though, a lot aren't. It is too early to make a true prediction though because we haven't had Free Agency or the Draft yet. 

 

Here is a question for you @NewColtsFan, if you took Rivers off our team this past year and replaced him with Wentz, do you think we go 11-5 and make the playoffs?

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think the people that were calling him noodle arm and saying we wouldn't even make the playoffs with Rivers should apologize. I for one loved the signing when we got Rivers and predicted a 10-6 record + a playoff berth. He even played better than I thought but I wasn't surprised. I thought he would be good. I just seen several in here bashing Rivers but yet they want Wentz here. I am a little confused with that is all.

I deleted my post about a minute after you responded.   Not my best effort.  
 

Been a long day. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

I deleted my post about a minute after you responded.   Not my best effort.  
 

Been a long day. 

That is fine, it is a good convo. No biggie. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will add to this, if we trade for Wentz and he leads us to at least a Playoff berth I will be the 1st to apologize and say I wrong about him. I am a stand up guy though, a lot aren't. It is too early to make a true prediction though because we haven't had Free Agency or the Draft yet. 

 

Here is a question for you @NewColtsFan, if you took Rivers off our team this past year and replaced him with Wentz, do you think we go 11-5 and make the playoffs?

The 2020 Colts?   Not sure?  

 

I’m hopeful the 2021 Colts will be better and maybe teams will be able to practice more?   Wentz is going to need all the practice he can get.   I read he has bad habits to break.  Technique to improve.  Confidence to rebuild.   That’s going to need a lot of practice.   I’d be more optimistic if I knew what the off-season is going to look like, but no one knows?

 

It’s a challenging off-season and it’s only just started....     Sigh...     
 

 

[shasta519]

44 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think another problem I am having with Wentz and other QB's like Trubisky and Darnold is, I don't see any of them being better than what Rivers was this past season. Those QB's aren't the leader Rivers was, Rivers also completed 68% of his passes, and he took good care of the ball with only 11 INT's.  Not to mention he could still sling it from time to time as he passed for over 4000 yards. The team also went 11-5, so the team as a whole just clicked with Rivers at QB. With Rivers we didn't even make the AFC Title Game so if we trade for any of the 3 I mentioned above, what makes people think we will go deep into the playoffs with any of those guys? I think a QB like Matt Ryan would be similar to having Rivers but may be a tad better because he's 3 years younger. 

Agree...especially regarding Wentz. I’m beyond meh on that. I am sure there are examples of QBs regarding for multiple seasons as they head into their primes...only to revitalize their careers. But it’s probably not many.

But Darnold is different...because hes much younger and hasn’t really shown it yet (outside of flashes). So I think with Darnold...you just have to be willing to believe there is untapped potential there. He still has plenty of time before he reaches his prime...and he could possibly be ready to take his game to a new level...like Allen did. On the plus side, you get a cheap test run season to find out and then the ability to negotiate a “fair” extension. And since he is cheaper...you can potentially spend more to try to maximize on that lottery ticket if it hits. 
 

Ryan would be a better version of Rivers I think...but I am not sure if he would be worth the cost to maybe give them a slightly better shot at beating these other AFC teams.

 

For me...I think the Colts have to gamble on unseen potential to get over the hump...whether that’s a draft pick (preferably) or Darnold. There’s considerable risk associated with that...but it’s one that most teams face.

A guy like Wentz just seems like a half measure to me.

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Here's the only meaningful thing I read today. And it's not all the meaningful to be honest.

I guess it's meaningful, but it's already been kinda kicked around.

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2021/2/16/22286400/report-bears-have-pushed-harder-than-colts-for-qb-carson-wentz

But with the ARob news breaking yesterday, I can’t imagine that will help Wentz alleged hesitation to go to the Bears. They’re saying a tag and trade for ARob is very likely and if so, why would you want to go to a team that just traded away their top WR

[coming on strong]

The new reports are saying wentz does not like deflippo who was in philly with him .   That is why he does not want to go to the bears and only wants colts . Bears only will trade if wentz wants to be there . They cannot trade away a first for Qb who doesn’t want to be there . 

[csmopar]

30 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

The new reports are saying wentz does not like deflippo who was in philly with him .   That is why he does not want to go to the bears and only wants colts . Bears only will trade if wentz wants to be there . They cannot trade away a first for Qb who doesn’t want to be there . 

sadly, I'm getting the feeling that you are correct.  I really dont want him here, but if the best two offers are the Bears and Colts, and I gotta believe the Bears offer is better at this point, otherwise, why would you continue to hold out?

[07dleigh]

Everyone suggesting we stop going the FA route @ QB and finally just find our future in the draft, who is that future? We're not getting Lawrence, Fields, or Wilson. MAYBE Lance could be in our trade up range. I personally trust Frank's ability to repair a high upside guy like Wentz or Winston in our high % offense more than I trust Lance or Jones or Trask.

 

Our offense is so QB friendly... idk why some have such little faith in a quarterback being able to improve their recent play in Indy.

[07dleigh]

We need to roll the dice, or else the AFC is going to leave us behind, it's about to get scary good. We can't just play it safe forever. Mac Jones or Kyle Trask aren't going to put us over against Pat, Lamar, J Allen, Herbert, etc.... Winston or Wentz at even 80% of their best is a Super Bowl with this team. 

 

The thing with those guys is the turnovers, but behind our OL (I know we need to solve LT), and with Nyhiem as an outlet, that doesn't worry me whatsoever.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, 07dleigh said:

We need to roll the dice, or else the AFC is going to leave us behind, it's about to get scary good. We can't just play it safe forever. Mac Jones or Kyle Trask aren't going to put us over against Pat, Lamar, J Allen, Herbert, etc.... Winston or Wentz at even 80% of their best is a Super Bowl with this team. 

 

The thing with those guys is the turnovers, but behind our OL (I know we need to solve LT), and with Nyhiem as an outlet, that doesn't worry me whatsoever.

If Watson gets traded out of the division and we did somehow get Matt Ryan, we would have the best QB in the division for a sold 3 years at worse. I think he is better than Tannehill.

[The Fish]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If Watson gets traded out of the division and we did somehow get Matt Ryan, we would have the best QB in the division for a sold 3 years at worse. I think he is better than Tannehill.

I think Jacksonville is expecting to lock down the division leader at the position.. 

If they don't do it all wrong (they might), they're going to be a factor too.

[Myles]

Glad Stephan A$# Smith is not our GM.  He thin k Brissett should be the QB.   Just proves what we all thought, he does not understand football.  Brissett has a low ceiling.  He has a good floor.  Would win us 7-9 games.   I'd like to aim higher.    

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, The Fish said:

I think Jacksonville is expecting to lock down the division leader at the position.. 

If they don't do it all wrong (they might), they're going to be a factor too.

It will take Lawrence 2 or 3 years to be very good or great IMO. Their roster is really bad. 

[07dleigh]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If Watson gets traded out of the division and we did somehow get Matt Ryan, we would have the best QB in the division for a sold 3 years at worse. I think he is better than Tannehill.

 

I like Ryan. Always felt like he was underappreciated. I just wonder how many good years he has left. I feel like it's only 1-3, really wish it was more like 3-5. I do think Ryan could take us to the promise land this upcoming season though.

[Myles]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If Watson gets traded out of the division and we did somehow get Matt Ryan, we would have the best QB in the division for a sold 3 years at worse. I think he is better than Tannehill.

I think I would take Tannehill for the next 3 years over Ryan.    Matt Ryan has been declining the past couple years.  Some because Atlanta isn't good, but he has had good WR to throw to.  

 

Lawrence will own the division in a year or 2.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, 07dleigh said:

 

I like Ryan. Always felt like he was underappreciated. I just wonder how many good years he has left. I feel like it's only 1-3, really wish it was more like 3-5. I do think Ryan could take us to the promise land this upcoming season though.

I think he has 3 good years left at worse. I say that because he has never been seriously injured and like Rivers he never misses starts. Ryan is 3 years younger than Rivers, Rivers played good this past season but you could almost tell that was going be it for him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

I think I would take Tannehill for the next 3 years over Ryan.    Matt Ryan has been declining the past couple years.  Some because Atlanta isn't good, but he has had good WR to throw to.  

 

Lawrence will own the division in a year or 2.   

I think it will take Lawrence 3 years before he really unleashes, Jags roster is bad. I like Tannehill, he is above average to good but take away Henry and just put an average back in there, how good is Tannehill really?