Colts #4 in PFF O-Line Rankings

[DaveA1102]

 

Did anyone think this was possible coming into this year?!  I know Big Q was going to be a huge addition but Kelly had not looked great towards the end of last year (now looks like an All-Pro) and we still had no real idea what the plan was for the right side of the line with Smith still being raw, Slauson being a bit of an unknown and RT being anyone's bet. 

 

I still believe the success in keeping Luck clean has been as much about the scheme as the O-line, but both have seen a huge change in the team's outlook.

 

Interestingly, 3rd vs 4th this weekend.

[Colts_Fan12]

15 minutes ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Did anyone think this was possible coming into this year?!  I know Big Q was going to be a huge addition but Kelly had not looked great towards the end of last year (now looks like an All-Pro) and we still had no real idea what the plan was for the right side of the line with Smith still being raw, Slauson being a bit of an unknown and RT being anyone's bet. 

 

I still believe the success in keeping Luck clean has been as much about the scheme as the O-line, but both have seen a huge change in the team's outlook.

 

Interestingly, 3rd vs 4th this weekend.

Well kelly had trash on each side of him he is playing better now cause hes not the lone good player in the middle of the line 

[Lawrence Owen]

1 hour ago, DaveA1102 said:

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Well kelly had trash on each side of him he is playing better now cause hes not the lone good player in the middle of the line 

 

 

Did anyone think this was possible coming into this year?!  I know Big Q was going to be a huge addition but Kelly had not looked great towards the end of last year (now looks like an All-Pro) and we still had no real idea what the plan was for the right side of the line with Smith still being raw, Slauson being a bit of an unknown and RT being anyone's bet. 

 

I still believe the success in keeping Luck clean has been as much about the scheme as the O-line, but both have seen a huge change in the team's outlook.

 

Interestingly, 3rd vs 4th this weekend.

Fact is, Kelly played well his rookie year.  And last year he was hurt multiple times. Basicly played the entire year hurt. He's back and healthy now, with 2 years experience behind him.

[AwesomeAustin]

The right side is doing fine but if we have the opportunity to take a tackle/guard combo high in the draft we need to do it. We can never have enough talent on the OL. Great to see we finally have a good line and Luck’s play shows that. We are still an injury away from majorly dropping down the rankings. 

[DaveA1102]

1 hour ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Fact is, Kelly played well his rookie year.  And last year he was hurt multiple times. Basicly played the entire year hurt. He's back and healthy now, with 2 years experience behind him.

 

Yeah I remember he was in the concussion protocol for quite a while last year, who knows if that had any impact.

 

I think a big difference this year is also the rapport he seems to have with Luck.  Two very intelligent football players playing at the height of their powers and on the same page.

[lollygagger8]

Call me a homer, but #4 seems low. 

[richard pallo]

Titans 3rd?  Against our DL.  Are they that good?  If so this game is going to be a real test for our team.  As if I wasn't concerned already. 

[DraftMaster]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Titans 3rd?  Against our DL.  Are they that good?  If so this game is going to be a real test for our team.  As if I wasn't concerned already. 

They're 24th in sacks allowed per game!

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

 

Mariota was also sacked 10 times vs the Ravens too.

[richard pallo]

21 minutes ago, DraftMaster said:

They're 24th in sacks allowed per game!

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

 

Mariota was also sacked 10 times vs the Ravens too.

How do you explain the power rankings then?  PFF?  Not buying it.  There are good teams in that top 5.  Sacks allowed is only part of the metrics.  They are talking about the entire defense. 

[DraftMaster]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

How do you explain the power rankings then?  PFF?  Not buying it.  There are good teams in that top 5.  Sacks allowed is only part of the metrics.  They are talking about the entire defense. 

No what I'm saying is I agree with you on why are the Titans at 3rd on the PFF rankings. Mariota is getting beat up bad...

[DaveA1102]

17 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

How do you explain the power rankings then?  PFF?  Not buying it.  There are good teams in that top 5.  Sacks allowed is only part of the metrics.  They are talking about the entire defense. 

 

9 minutes ago, DraftMaster said:

No what I'm saying is I agree with you on why are the Titans at 3rd on the PFF rankings. Mariota is getting beat up bad...

 

I cant say I have watched a lot of the Titans, but I wonder how many of the sacks would be attributable to Mariota himself. 

 

PFF always states it attributes sacks to players individually so there may be sacks for the line but Mariota may be a significant factor also.

 

You can certainly have a strong argument that Conklin and Lewan are one of the best Tackle combinations in the whole league.

[Lawrence Owen]

10 minutes ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

 

I cant say I have watched a lot of the Titans, but I wonder how many of the sacks would be attributable to Mariota himself. 

 

PFF always states it attributes sacks to players individually so there may be sacks for the line but Mariota may be a significant factor also.

 

You can certainly have a strong argument that Conklin and Lewan are one of the best Tackle combinations in the whole league.

This is why we have good penetrating tackles. (supposedly.) Lewis and Hunt need to show up sunday.

[DougDew]

Is Kelly having a better year because our QB releases the ball quicker than he previously did, as well as Brissett?

 

How does the play of other positions factor into this ranking of olines?  

 

[gspdx]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Is Kelly having a better year because our QB releases the ball quicker than he previously did, as well as Brissett?

 

How does the play of other positions factor into this ranking of olines?  

 

 

The scheme certainly makes a difference.  Our o-line is benefiting from a number things, but it sure does look like their improved play is one of the factors.  If we put last year's line in front of this years team I don't think they would be as effective.  Total conjecture, but my opinion.

[aaron11]

kelly was hurt last year, thats why hes playing better now

[Lawrence Owen]

2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Call me a homer, but #4 seems low. 

If you go by how they've done the past month, it is.  But this is a coalition from the start of the season.  They started ok,...but then turned on when we got healthier.

[SteelCityColt]

Straw poll.. are sacks on the QB or on the line? 

[Luck 4 president]

6 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Straw poll.. are sacks on the QB or on the line? 

Every play is different but I’d say around 80% of sacks are on the line 

[aaron11]

14 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Straw poll.. are sacks on the QB or on the line? 

clearly they are on the GM

[DraftMaster]

1 hour ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

 

I cant say I have watched a lot of the Titans, but I wonder how many of the sacks would be attributable to Mariota himself. 

 

PFF always states it attributes sacks to players individually so there may be sacks for the line but Mariota may be a significant factor also.

 

You can certainly have a strong argument that Conklin and Lewan are one of the best Tackle combinations in the whole league.

That does make sense. Just don't know how a mobile QB could be responsible for so many sacks, but we saw it with Brissett last year when he held on to the ball so long and he was taking a lot of sacks. Either way we gotta get home this week or else Mariota will carve up our defense...

[The Fish]

I watched the Packers more than I really care too this year. The Colts line is vastly better than GB's. GB's line benefits from Rodgers, not vice versa. 

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Did anyone think this was possible coming into this year?!  I know Big Q was going to be a huge addition but Kelly had not looked great towards the end of last year (now looks like an All-Pro) and we still had no real idea what the plan was for the right side of the line with Smith still being raw, Slauson being a bit of an unknown and RT being anyone's bet. 

 

I still believe the success in keeping Luck clean has been as much about the scheme as the O-line, but both have seen a huge change in the team's outlook.

 

Interestingly, 3rd vs 4th this weekend.

im curious how an OL giving up an average of 28 sacks thus far can be rated higher than a team giving up 10 sacks?  League average is 21 btw...

[Myles]

2 hours ago, Luck 4 president said:

Every play is different but I’d say around 80% of sacks are on the line 

League wide, I'd say yes.   Probably leans more to the QB for the Titans though.   Marriota tends to extend plays which puts him into sack situations.  

[coltsfeva]

   Haven’t the Saints just given up 9 this year? And they’re not in the top 5?

 

[Dingus McGirt]

3 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

Straw poll.. are sacks on the QB or on the line? 

Yes.

[SteelCityColt]

3 hours ago, Luck 4 president said:

Every play is different but I’d say around 80% of sacks are on the line 

 

It was a bit of a straw man straw poll as you can't 100% put it on either as you allude to. It's very much an interpretation of the play (which is why PFF can sometimes chuck out "odd" ratings). 

 

However, until recently I would have agreed it's mostly down to the line. But, I think more and more sacks are on QBs. Outside of obvious O-line whiffs (especially thinking uncontested A Gap pressure) then quite often sacks are down on the QB holding the ball too long, failing to step up into the pocket, or trying to make a hero play with their legs. Things you commonly associate with rookies, though you could argue a team in a position to select a QB high enough to start as a rookie may have inherent line issues anyway. 

 

The converse is when we look at elite QBs who seem able to carve up a defense regardless of a poor line as they diagnose and get the ball gone so quickly. 

 

I think too scheme shouldn't be overlooked, if you're asking a QB to hold on for plays that develop downfield, he's gonna get sacked regardless of how good the line is. 

 

Personally I think it's about 70% QB and 30% line with scheme mixed in there along the way. 

[Mitch Connors]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

im curious how an OL giving up an average of 28 sacks thus far can be rated higher than a team giving up 10 sacks?  League average is 21 btw...

 

Great point. They also have the 19th most productive rushing attack. 

 

Apparently, the QB is responsible for all the sacks and the RB's have huge holes but decide to ignore them and run into their linemen?

[throwing BBZ]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

Is Kelly having a better year because our QB releases the ball quicker than he previously did, as well as Brissett?

 

How does the play of other positions factor into this ranking of olines?  

 

 

 Being the thorough poster that you are, i am sure you have read PFF's explanation on how they score each player, on every play, for how well they perform their job.
 It does make sense that if a QB gets rid of the ball quicker, his o-lineman won't have to hold their blocks as long which would make it easier to grade higher for pass blocking.
 They would get a run blocking grade the same way.
And most agree that a good run game helps the pass game. It is complex.

 I accept that PFF is working hard to consistently grade,which over the long haul gives us a reasonable look at how players are performing.

 It has to be better than the eye test of individual Homer's like the ones that suggest Kelley is playing all-pro level without watching closely all of his peers. Heck, they ar not even watching Kelley on every play.

[WoolMagnet]

UREKA!!!! Now we know why we have such a large cap space.

Irsay OBVIOUSLY paid PFF ALOT of money and there isnt any left for FAs.  We would be #3, but thats how BAD we used to be.

Well, at least now we know.  I thought i was in an alternate universe for a moment.

[Coffeedrinker]

6 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

Straw poll.. are sacks on the QB or on the line? 

Yes.

 

[Coffeedrinker]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

im curious how an OL giving up an average of 28 sacks thus far can be rated higher than a team giving up 10 sacks?  League average is 21 btw...

That is easy enough to answer.. it's because sacks are not as important a stat as we fans make it out to be.

 

That being said, I don't know what they are looking at; when you look beyond the sacks.  The Titans also have fewer net yards per pass attempt, fewer yards per carry in the running game, lower score percentage, fewer 1st downs (although they do have 4 more rushing 1st downs than the Colts).

 

So, if the line is as good as PFF is grading them, then that must mean their skill position players aren't that good, right?

[Moosejawcolt]

Listen to Simms and Lefkoe podcast titled NFL week 10  film notebook.  U don't have to listen for long as he talks bout Nelson.  Says he is the best guard in football.  It's a good listen.   I really like Simms as he owns it when he makes a  prediction it turns out to b wrong.  Seems to know his stuff and he was really high on Nelson coming out.  Says that he had even surpassed his expectations 

[braveheartcolt]

We had a rubbish line for years with Luck. He was sacked a lot. We can clearly see we have decent line now, and he doesn't get touched. Play calling might influence things a bit, but we all know the real reason.

[SteelCityColt]

3 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

We had a rubbish line for years with Luck. He was sacked a lot. We can clearly see we have decent line now, and he doesn't get touched. Play calling might influence things a bit, but we all know the real reason.

 

To add to this, I think we’re seeing a more sensible Andrew Luck. Maybe he’s realised he’s mortal now? 

[DougDew]

23 hours ago, gspdx said:

 

The scheme certainly makes a difference.  Our o-line is benefiting from a number things, but it sure does look like their improved play is one of the factors.  If we put last year's line in front of this years team I don't think they would be as effective.  Total conjecture, but my opinion.

They most definitely would not be, I don't think there is much conjecture there.  I was curious as to how those ratings are calculated.  It could be as simple as taking each individual grade of each lineman and using a formula to combine them as a unit, or they somehow grade the unit as a whole. 

 

PFF projects a simple numeric ranking, but I was wondering how simple the calculation is.

[gspdx]

38 minutes ago, DougDew said:

They most definitely would not be, I don't think there is much conjecture there.  I was curious as to how those ratings are calculated.  It could be as simple as taking each individual grade of each lineman and using a formula to combine them as a unit, or they somehow grade the unit as a whole. 

 

PFF projects a simple numeric ranking, but I was wondering how simple the calculation is.

 

Yes - no idea how they calculate.  I don't really look at those sites since I already waste so much time here!

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

Yes - no idea how they calculate.  I don't really look at those sites since I already waste so much time here!

Yeah.  Ranking things makes it sound like they are concluding it is "the 4th best oline in the NFL" when we don't really know what that means.

[NewEra]

Does this ranking take the entire season into count? Cause our earlier struggles on the line would seem to knock it. Let's do a last 4 games ranking....imo #1

[BOTT]

19 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

To add to this, I think we’re seeing a more sensible Andrew Luck. Maybe he’s realised he’s mortal now? 

I predicted this would be the consensus when Luck actually got a coach with a functional brain. Quarterbacks in a vertical scheme are going to take more hits. You can go back to Jim Everett playing for norv Turner, anyone playing Arians, anyone playing Mike Martz, etc......

The colts put luck in a vertical system with a shoddy offensive line, no running game and a crap defense.  If one wanted to ruin a young QB you couldn't design a better plan.

[smittywerb]

3 hours ago, BOTT said:

If one wanted to ruin a young QB you couldn't design a better plan.

 

Sad thing is, they almost did.