Who in the hell wants to go 8-8?

[Superman]

1 hour ago, IinD said:

Losing doesn't guarantee you get better the next year.

 

This gets to the heart of the problem. Trying to build a contender is a process, it takes time, and there are no shortcuts. Part of that process is learning how to win on Sundays, fighting through slumps and developing toughness and winning character. 

 

Quitting on the season isn't part of that process. 

 

Going from worst to first is great, but not how it usually works. Building a contender is usually an incremental process. Especially when the roster is depleted due to multiple consecutive years of bad drafting. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, masterlock said:

Well, you could call predictable plays, even without benching your "star" players. That would work too. For example, if virtually every play was a run up the middle, then it would be easy for opposing defenses to shut down those plays, and force 3-and-outs. 

 

Coaches are screaming about officiating costing their jobs...

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/vikings-coach-mike-zimmer-helmet-rule-going-to-cost-people-jobs-nfl-news/1qngj2vb7n1qs1enpbnenljvs2

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-giants/LongFormArticle/New-York-Giants-Landon-Collins-penalty-NFL-was-wrong-123035571/#123035571_3

 

Why would they put out tape of them soiling their own resume`? Especially trying to build a 'culture' of winning and teamwork, and not just a collection of talent.

 

"The way a team plays as a whole determines its success. You may have the greatest bunch of individual stars in the world, but if they don't play together, the club won't be worth a dime."

 

Babe Ruth

 

 

[Defjamz26]

6 hours ago, Myles said:

The Pacers know that better than anyone.  

I don't think teams tank in the NFL.   Players are playing for their $$ and careers.   Coaches the same.   A QB isn't going to throw INT's on purpose because that is what they are judged on for the rest of their careers and lives.   Too many pieces in the NFL to think tanking happens.    

Perhaps the last game of the season if a team is 4-11 and have a couple slightly banged up players, maybe they may hold them out of the game.   

 

That said, if they are eliminated from the playoffs, sometimes I will hope they lose to improve draft position.  

I don’t really root for the Colts to lose. However, I also don’t applaud them for just being “competitive”. If they lose, they lose. It’s usually a combination of things that isn’t solely going to be resolved with draft picks and/or FA signings so rooting for a higher draft pick doesn’t really make sense. 

 

Yes we could use better receivers but AJ Brown isn’t just going to fix all the issues. We need to make sure he’s coached up well, healthy, and move him around. Bosa would absolutely help give us a fearful pass rush, but if we don’t have a good rusher opposite him he’ll just get double teamed all day.

[Superman]

46 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I don’t really root for the Colts to lose. However, I also don’t applaud them for just being “competitive”.

 

It's not necessary to applaud a team for being competitive. But that's different from acknowledging that the team is competitive. A team could be totally outmatched, outcoached, and outplayed, and there probably won't be any positives to point out. Or a team could be battling and only losing because of a handful of plays, or penalties, etc. One team needs a complete overhaul, the other team just needs to keep developing. 

 

I think the Colts just need to keep developing. I'm certainly not applauding 1-4; I'm actually disappointed because they gave away two games, and sleepwalked through the first half of two other games. Reich said his team needs to be tough and disciplined, and it needs to finish. Tough, disciplined teams don't go down 2-3 scores in the first half (especially at home), and teams that know how to finish, well, they finish.

 

There's a good chance some of that gets better this season. The Colts have been missing some of their best players at the start of the season, and playing a lot of young guys, which affects game planning and execution. Get AC and Mack back on the field, get Hooker into form, let Luck keep getting back into a rhythm, and let some of these young guys settle in. Maybe some of these close losses start turning into wins.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Funny, I posted same thing a couple weeks ago. Got laughed off this forum. 7-9, 8-8, 9-7..they all suck!! Lose on purpose? Not by making bad coaching calls or telling players some "plan to lose games"..2-3 veteran players, (RB, WR in particular) is the difference in this team going 4-12 vs 8-8 at this stage of the season. Ballard isn't building this team from late teens to early 20's draft choices just to have mediocre talent as a core.      

[Introspect]

This team could go 4-12 or 5-11. The wheels look about ready to fly off.  This Jets game is a code red for this team, they better show up and fight to prevent a meltdown.

[Yoshinator]

5 hours ago, IinD said:

You wait all year for football then want to tank after the first month..??

 

Lol @some fans honestly. Losing doesn't guarantee you get better the next year.

 

I like seeing the Colts play, when the season is over all I can think about is when's the season start?

 

I'll take 8-8. If losing was the cure for all, Cleveland would be title town.

I hate this garbage argument toward the OP's thread. Just look at our draft this year and tell me we didn't get better. First, we had the no3 pick. Then we traded down to no6 and acquired three 2nd round picks (1 we still have next year). Just by having a high pick, we were able to collect lots of draft capital for two years. Then we got an elite G, a top LBer who wouldn't of been available later in the 2nd round, and another G who is starting to perform and we can use at RG now that Slauson is on IR. 

 

The difference in talent between the early and mid part of a round is big, and the difference between the early and late part of a round is enormous. With someone like Ballard making the picks for us, the advantage is HUGE when he has that extra ability to choose between 10-20 extra players a round if we have an early pick. It's not like Grigson is still picking and we wouldn't have confidence in him anyway. Ballard knows what he is doing, and I'd like to exploit that with an early pick, in both trades and the actual draft picks.

[Defjamz26]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's not necessary to applaud a team for being competitive. But that's different from acknowledging that the team is competitive. A team could be totally outmatched, outcoached, and outplayed, and there probably won't be any positives to point out. Or a team could be battling and only losing because of a handful of plays, or penalties, etc. One team needs a complete overhaul, the other team just needs to keep developing. 

 

I think the Colts just need to keep developing. I'm certainly not applauding 1-4; I'm actually disappointed because they gave away two games, and sleepwalked through the first half of two other games. Reich said his team needs to be tough and disciplined, and it needs to finish. Tough, disciplined teams don't go down 2-3 scores in the first half (especially at home), and teams that know how to finish, well, they finish.

 

There's a good chance some of that gets better this season. The Colts have been missing some of their best players at the start of the season, and playing a lot of young guys, which affects game planning and execution. Get AC and Mack back on the field, get Hooker into form, let Luck keep getting back into a rhythm, and let some of these young guys settle in. Maybe some of these close losses start turning into wins.

They need to keep drafting AND devoloping. They need to draft good players and try an devolop them. But those players have to execute, and the staff has to put them into positions to win. 

 

It’s nice to see them not get completely blown out but if their picking Top 5 in the draft again, no one will really be talking about how they were in every game they lost. People only remember the Losses when it’s all said and done.

[IinD]

20 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I hate this garbage argument toward the OP's thread. Just look at our draft this year and tell me we didn't get better. First, we had the no3 pick. Then we traded down to no6 and acquired three 2nd round picks (1 we still have next year). Just by having a high pick, we were able to collect lots of draft capital for two years. Then we got an elite G, a top LBer who wouldn't of been available later in the 2nd round, and another G who is starting to perform and we can use at RG now that Slauson is on IR. 

 

The difference in talent between the early and mid part of a round is big, and the difference between the early and late part of a round is enormous. With someone like Ballard making the picks for us, the advantage is HUGE when he has that extra ability to choose between 10-20 extra players a round if we have an early pick. It's not like Grigson is still picking and we wouldn't have confidence in him anyway. Ballard knows what he is doing, and I'd like to exploit that with an early pick, in both trades and the actual draft picks.

That's all fine and dandy, but complaining about wins and draft position at 5 games into the season for me is nonsense. 

 

In week 14/15/16 I get it, but we're already seeing draft position thoughts and threads being talked about.

 

I'll be rooting in my seats at MetLife Sunday for a win. Hopefully folks don't get to sad if we happen to win.. Lol

[coltsva]

7 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

I've heard of a Great Eagle, but never a Superb Owl.......

Got to watch that game at Hooters

[Stephen]

13 minutes ago, IinD said:

That's all fine and dandy, but complaining about wins and draft position at 5 games into the season for me is nonsense. 

 

In week 14/15/16 I get it, but we're already seeing draft position thoughts and threads being talked about.

 

I'll be rooting in my seats at MetLife Sunday for a win. Hopefully folks don't get to sad if we happen to win.. Lol

I agree.Now if later in the season we are 1-14 and losing gets us the 1st pick while winning gets us pick 4 I will root to lose.

[IinD]

8 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I agree.Now if later in the season we are 1-14 and losing gets us the 1st pick while winning gets us pick 4 I will root to lose.

Yeah I'm human as well, at a certain point in a season you know when it's going downhill fast so you don't really care. You watch without expectations.

 

Hypothetically, we could be leaders in the division with a little win streak and the others losing a couple games. Our division doesn't look all world so far. Im still hoping/cheering wild card/division crown until it's obvious we aren't going anywhere. 

 

If we're at 2/3 wins in December, totally get it, not now though.

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's not necessary to applaud a team for being competitive. But that's different from acknowledging that the team is competitive. A team could be totally outmatched, outcoached, and outplayed, and there probably won't be any positives to point out. Or a team could be battling and only losing because of a handful of plays, or penalties, etc. One team needs a complete overhaul, the other team just needs to keep developing. 

 

I think the Colts just need to keep developing. I'm certainly not applauding 1-4; I'm actually disappointed because they gave away two games, and sleepwalked through the first half of two other games. Reich said his team needs to be tough and disciplined, and it needs to finish. Tough, disciplined teams don't go down 2-3 scores in the first half (especially at home), and teams that know how to finish, well, they finish.

 

There's a good chance some of that gets better this season. The Colts have been missing some of their best players at the start of the season, and playing a lot of young guys, which affects game planning and execution. Get AC and Mack back on the field, get Hooker into form, let Luck keep getting back into a rhythm, and let some of these young guys settle in. Maybe some of these close losses start turning into wins.

hooker and mack are not proven talents, that is what we get relying on draft picks. draft picks are a crapshoot, once in a few one works out, hard to field a competive team with draft picks and low dollar free agents, our record tells the tale

[JPFolks]

10 hours ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

As a fan, rooting for a team to finish a mediocre 7-9 or 8-8 is just plain silly to me. The Colts could be 4-1 right now if a handful of things had went their way but they didn't. As banged up as they are, the Colts are still a competitive team right now. Could they rally and sneak into the playoffs? Perhaps, but are they going to make a SB run? I highly doubt it. I think they are clearly a couple of pieces away from really being a contender in the AFC.

 

I know some people are totally against tanking for a higher draft selection but I am not. Is a top draft pick a lock to be a hit? Of course not but adding a Nick Bosa or an Ed Oliver to this team could be huge. Maybe one guy alone won't turn this team into the AFC favorite but I think it will go along way to achieving that. Throw in the two second round picks (both being fairly early) and the core for this team could be set for years to come. 

 

It's pretty clear Chris Ballard isn't likely to spend big in free agency and I'm ok with that. If he thinks they're one piece away and the right fit is there to spend up on, I could see him going after that player. I really like the Colts young core and want to see them to continue to build through the draft as planned. Picking in the 16-22 range in the upcoming draft would not be ideal for next years run at the AFC title. 

We're getting the worst of the injury bug right now.  Going forward, it will be other teams turns.  It is clearly already that no one in our division is a complete team with or without injuries.  With one of our worst starts in memory, we're still only 2 games back and have 2 games with both teams that are 2 games ahead of us.  8-8 COULD make the playoffs in our division.  For those advocating for Ballard, they say bringing in youth is "the way" so what better way to battle test them than to keep playing meaningful games until the final week?  And should these guys start coming along a bit with a still healthy Luck at the helm, he's good enough to advance should we punch a ticket in.  Take Brady off the Pats, we could beat them.  Take a few stars off any team we could beat them.  We've lost and lost players all year but who's to say who our competitors for the playoffs are going to lose.  Tanking? In the NFL? Dumbest idea ever with only a single exception and that is getting a surefire QB prospect like the Colts did when they got Luck (and likely when they got Manning as well).  We even tried it with Jeff George as well.  This whole "tanking" mindset means tossing away playing meaningful games, teaching young players to phone it in for a paycheck and nothing else and risking all that negativity for the chance at most of 1 player over other teams.  That is ALL the difference between picking 1st and 32nd.  (and an even worse tactic if you finish with a couple more wins)Because picking 1st means from then on you draft AFTER every other team has gone.  So that one player better be worth all the negative lessons of "tanking" to cheat the system like every other low life team that does the same.  It means NOT playing the games to win... it's like using poison as medicine for an illness you don't truly have.  It doesn't help anything but makes you sicker in the long run.  I'd rather starve than eat poison food and losing on purpose is poison.   It's for weak minded losers and lacks any integrity.  Not really the foundation to grow your team on.  

 

Our best player this year on Defense is a 2nd round pick.  By a mile.  Spend the effort building a draft plan and get the right players and teach them to fight for EVERY win with every thing they have.  Lose on purpose to cheat the system in hopes of getting a single magical player? Sure... if that is the character of your team, have at it.  Hopefully the Colts aren't that foolish.  

[IinD]

5 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

We're getting the worst of the injury bug right now.  Going forward, it will be other teams turns.  It is clearly already that no one in our division is a complete team with or without injuries.  With one of our worst starts in memory, we're still only 2 games back and have 2 games with both teams that are 2 games ahead of us.  8-8 COULD make the playoffs in our division.  For those advocating for Ballard, they say bringing in youth is "the way" so what better way to battle test them than to keep playing meaningful games until the final week?  And should these guys start coming along a bit with a still healthy Luck at the helm, he's good enough to advance should we punch a ticket in.  Take Brady off the Pats, we could beat them.  Take a few stars off any team we could beat them.  We've lost and lost players all year but who's to say who our competitors for the playoffs are going to lose.  Tanking? In the NFL? Dumbest idea ever with only a single exception and that is getting a surefire QB prospect like the Colts did when they got Luck (and likely when they got Manning as well).  We even tried it with Jeff George as well.  This whole "tanking" mindset means tossing away playing meaningful games, teaching young players to phone it in for a paycheck and nothing else and risking all that negativity for the chance at most of 1 player over other teams.  That is ALL the difference between picking 1st and 32nd.  (and an even worse tactic if you finish with a couple more wins)Because picking 1st means from then on you draft AFTER every other team has gone.  So that one player better be worth all the negative lessons of "tanking" to cheat the system like every other low life team that does the same.  It means NOT playing the games to win... it's like using poison as medicine for an illness you don't truly have.  It doesn't help anything but makes you sicker in the long run.  I'd rather starve than eat poison food and losing on purpose is poison.   It's for weak minded losers and lacks any integrity.  Not really the foundation to grow your team on.  

 

Our best player this year on Defense is a 2nd round pick.  By a mile.  Spend the effort building a draft plan and get the right players and teach them to fight for EVERY win with every thing they have.  Lose on purpose to cheat the system in hopes of getting a single magical player? Sure... if that is the character of your team, have at it.  Hopefully the Colts aren't that foolish.  

@JPFolks

A lot of good thoughts in that post.

 

[Four2itus]

Me

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

I agree.Now if later in the season we are 1-14 and losing gets us the 1st pick while winning gets us pick 4 I will root to lose.

All a personal choice. But tell me, how exactly do you 'root to lose'? Do you wear the opponents jersey and a cardboard JJ Watt face mask? Eat pizza upside down (the pizza, not you). Do you burp out our rivals fight song? Burn your favourite Colts gear in front of the TV while sticking pins in an Andrew Luck bobblehead? Dress your cat in a Titans light blue? Dangle your hairy bits over a calor gas stove while chanting about Marcus Mariota's tidy butt?

 

Anyway, whatever you do, I hope it works out ok for you. Me, I'll just watch the game, and worry about the draft implications after the season is done.

 

GO COWBOYS............err, Colts,I mean.

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

We're getting the worst of the injury bug right now.  Going forward, it will be other teams turns.  It is clearly already that no one in our division is a complete team with or without injuries.  With one of our worst starts in memory, we're still only 2 games back and have 2 games with both teams that are 2 games ahead of us.  8-8 COULD make the playoffs in our division.  For those advocating for Ballard, they say bringing in youth is "the way" so what better way to battle test them than to keep playing meaningful games until the final week?  And should these guys start coming along a bit with a still healthy Luck at the helm, he's good enough to advance should we punch a ticket in.  Take Brady off the Pats, we could beat them.  Take a few stars off any team we could beat them.  We've lost and lost players all year but who's to say who our competitors for the playoffs are going to lose.  Tanking? In the NFL? Dumbest idea ever with only a single exception and that is getting a surefire QB prospect like the Colts did when they got Luck (and likely when they got Manning as well).  We even tried it with Jeff George as well.  This whole "tanking" mindset means tossing away playing meaningful games, teaching young players to phone it in for a paycheck and nothing else and risking all that negativity for the chance at most of 1 player over other teams.  That is ALL the difference between picking 1st and 32nd.  (and an even worse tactic if you finish with a couple more wins)Because picking 1st means from then on you draft AFTER every other team has gone.  So that one player better be worth all the negative lessons of "tanking" to cheat the system like every other low life team that does the same.  It means NOT playing the games to win... it's like using poison as medicine for an illness you don't truly have.  It doesn't help anything but makes you sicker in the long run.  I'd rather starve than eat poison food and losing on purpose is poison.   It's for weak minded losers and lacks any integrity.  Not really the foundation to grow your team on.  

 

Our best player this year on Defense is a 2nd round pick.  By a mile.  Spend the effort building a draft plan and get the right players and teach them to fight for EVERY win with every thing they have.  Lose on purpose to cheat the system in hopes of getting a single magical player? Sure... if that is the character of your team, have at it.  Hopefully the Colts aren't that foolish.  

Nicely said sir/m'am.

[chrisfarley]

10 hours ago, Barry Sears said:

right now 8-8 sounds good to me, that means 7-4 the rest of the way.

7-4 will be very difficult even if our roster was 25% healthier than it is now.  Drops, O-Line, run-game, & defense are all huge Achilles heels. I think Colts will have a top 15 1st round draft pick.  We need a defensive monster and o-line o-line o-line -- the rest we go free agency and spend a fortune.  Next year is the year to spend...

[stitches]

One of the fundamental misunderstandings of tanking is that you tell your players or coaches to not compete or to lose. This is not the case in a well thought out and planned tank. You just realign the priorities and prioritize the future over the short term success. This might include telling your coach that developing the youth and playing them is paramount. This might include trading/benching/cutting pieces that might help you win a game or two right now but are not part of the long-term plans for the team. This might include building the roster in the off-season in a way to not be able to sustain extensive injury bug. This might include being extra cautious with the injuries your team sustains and instead of rushing them to the field right away, making extra-certain that they are 100% ready to be back. None of those entail not competing or not wanting to win by the players on the field. The players and coaches still plan and play for wins, they are just artificially hindered short-term by the management in various ways in order to ensure maximizing the chance of long-term success. 

 

The problem with tanking in the NFL is that some positions are skewing the equation one way or another by a ton and we have the ultimate tank breaker in Luck. When healthy and at his best Luck is an elite talent and IMO just by his presence is able to drag horrible rosters to winning/non-losing seasons. 

 

I'm in the camp that thinks that this roster needs game-changers at multiple positions and the reality is that the higher you pick the better chance you have to get a game changer. This one is much more clear in the NBA than in the NFL though and I'm not certain it's all that feasible in the NFL.

 

I would still prefer we go 2-14 than 8-8 if everything else is equal(development of the youth, performance of the QB, etc.) - for example very unlucky 2-14 team that hangs in games but loses due to lack of depth/injuries/etc over a very lucky 8-8 team that got to .500 due to lucky breaks and a great QB. Let me put it this way - if we are not competing for a championship, I would rather lose every single one score game than win it. I ultimately think talent wins above all in the long run and I am not opposed to maximizing long-term talent over short term semi-success(500 team vs picking a generational talent like Bosa for example). 

 

IMO this won't happen though. Some of our injured players will return and we will enter a softer part of the schedule and we will win some games, especially with Luck feeling better and better about his arm as the season goes on. I still expect us to be somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7 when it's all said and done. 

[ClaytonColt]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The difference in talent between the early and mid part of a round is big, and the difference between the early and late part of a round is enormous. 

It's not really is it?

 

The difference between picking first and picking last is just one (admittedly theoretically elite) player. 

 

Through the rest of the rounds the difference between the selection available to the 32nd team and the 1st team is a couple of players.

[Yoshinator]

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet on this subject is that we have our QB already. So if we hypothetically picked 2nd (where we are slotted right now), then we wouldn't be drafting for our QB of the future like team such as the Jags and Browns have done. We would be using it to take whomever falls of Oliver and Bosa to 2. That is a HUGE talent that will boost our defensive line talent. Even after that, we would have the 2nd pick in round 2, that would be like having a late 1st almost. Add the Jets pick to that, and we have the ability to get three top picks.

 

The problem isn't that we aren't talented, and it's hard to root to lose at this point and most won't do it, but these injuries are making it impossible to be competitive and we just aren't going to make the playoffs at this rate. The worst you can be in the NFL is mediocre (or 8-8). You want to be really good and make the playoffs, or really bad and get an elite talent in the draft. 8-8 is useless for us. We probably should finish 8-8 if healthy, but we know that. We don't need the validation of a mediocre season to tell us that. If we draft some elite talent next year early in the draft and spend money in FA, we could make a jump from 3-4 wins to 10-11 wins easy. Especially if we are healthy. It's about getting healthy, we just can't compete when the team is injured.

[Crunked]

IF we finish 8-8 that means we finished out the season 7-4 from this point. That would be encouraging, very encouraging. This team competes I like that. We have added some talent this year, but we need more, and we need to build depth as is clear by all the injuries have shown, there is not yet enough talent behind some positions.

 

I think we can surprise anyone any given Sunday, however I don't think we have the talent yet to beat the good teams (we might catch one leaning this season) because of our competitiveness and beat one, but I am talking all things equal I don't think we can beat a good team yet.....

 

8-8 from this view point would be a heckuva' finish.........I think 6-10 might be more realistic.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Crunked said:

IF we finish 8-8 that means we finished out the season 7-4 from this point. That would be encouraging, very encouraging. This team competes I like that. We have added some talent this year, but we need more, and we need to build depth as is clear by all the injuries have shown, there is not yet enough talent behind some positions.

 

I think we can surprise anyone any given Sunday, however I don't think we have the talent yet to beat the good teams (we might catch one leaning this season) because of our competitiveness and beat one, but I am talking all things equal I don't think we can beat a good team yet.....

 

8-8 from this view point would be a heckuva' finish.........I think 6-10 might be more realistic.

So much for my 9-7 prediction. We would have to go 8-3 for that to happen 

[Crunked]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

So much for my 9-7 prediction. We would have to go 8-3 for that to happen 

My Homer goggles had a 9-7 tint to them when we kicked the season off, but after the last visit to the eye doctor....my vision has diminished to 6-10 lol    But I can still see improvement over last year......and ultimately that's what we all wanted to see going in, we just wanted to see it sharper than reality has let us see it....

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Crunked said:

My Homer goggles had a 9-7 tint to them when we kicked the season off, but after the last visit to the eye doctor....my vision has diminished to 6-10 lol    But I can still see improvement over last year......and ultimately that's what we all wanted to see going in, we just wanted to see it sharper than reality has let us see it....

Yeah I thought I had 20/20 vision but then after we lost to Houston I realized maybe I do not  . I still like our chances in these next 3 games coming up so who knows?

[Crunked]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I thought I had 20/20 vision but then after we lost to Houston I realized maybe I do not  . I still like our chances in these next 3 games coming up so who knows?

I will be disappointed if 3 weeks from now we are NOT 4-4.....I think it may go sideways from there, I hope not.....but 4-4 hope renewed, hopefully more healthy maybe we can talk about some seasonal lasik to improve our vision  

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Crunked said:

I will be disappointed if 3 weeks from now we are NOT 4-4.....I think it may go sideways from there, I hope not.....but 4-4 hope renewed, hopefully more healthy maybe we can talk about some seasonal lasik to improve our vision  

 

If we get to 4-4 that would be huge. If the Colts can learn how to close games better moving forward it is possible. The thing that has bothered me is, Luck usually is great in close games, so far he hasn't been clutch. Luck has played good for the most part this season but down the stretch not so much. The Cincy game wasn't really his fault, that was more on Jack fumbling but we still found a way to lose. 

[JPFolks]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

One of the fundamental misunderstandings of tanking is that you tell your players or coaches to not compete or to lose. This is not the case in a well thought out and planned tank. You just realign the priorities and prioritize the future over the short term success. This might include telling your coach that developing the youth and playing them is paramount. This might include trading/benching/cutting pieces that might help you win a game or two right now but are not part of the long-term plans for the team. This might include building the roster in the off-season in a way to not be able to sustain extensive injury bug. This might include being extra cautious with the injuries your team sustains and instead of rushing them to the field right away, making extra-certain that they are 100% ready to be back. None of those entail not competing or not wanting to win by the players on the field. The players and coaches still plan and play for wins, they are just artificially hindered short-term by the management in various ways in order to ensure maximizing the chance of long-term success. 

We're already playing our youngest players.  Our only ancient FA is now on IR.  Who else would they sit? Vinateri? Luck? Hilton? They are the oldest players on the team that matter.  Sitting any of them would be beyond silly.  They are on field teachers at worst and team leaders across the board.  Vinny doesn't have the years left to do so an I would expect him to retire or change teams if you sat him in the interest of intentionally losing.  The entire thought process is short sighted and the mindset of a perpetual loser.  Mathis wasn't a top draft pick.  Go find the best pass rushers without spotlights on them.  Hell, this year has already proven it can be done in later rounds and even better through clever scheming and calling the right formations and stunts at the right time with whoever is on the field.  Any "management" who takes that approach will be run out of town on a rail in Indianapolis and good riddance to them if they do.  Ruin everything for one player... half of those top picks usually don't pan out as people think.  Instead, do your job in management and find the right players. 

 

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find some FAs to fill in the gaping holes in our depth next year.  They don't have to be starters, but already depending on practice players from other teams is a dangerous way to protect what is left of Luck's career.  We should have drafted at minimum 1 tackle and likely brought in a solid back up Swing Tackle as well to supplement Haeg.  We need to carry at least 10 O lineman next year because it is clear league wide that a position group that used to rarely have significant injury losses in past decades is now rampant and out of control, so we should prepare accordingly.  Give Luck a solid line all season and the rest of the team can be garbage and he can still get us wins.  A few more injuries to Luck and we'll be drafting a new QB before we know it or re-signing our backup to be our starter in a couple years.  If we lose Nelson or our Center who do we have to back up either? Thankfully we can start the era of our 2nd round Guard's career at his intended position for better or worse, but like the others, who are his backups? 6 years and we've never even been close to any season during Manning's career on the O Line quality or depth.  It's inexcusable.  

[Pacergeek]

If Colts do not win the next 3 games, Ballard should be getting some serious heat. We ran both Grigson and Pagano out of down for being 8-8, and Ballard has manipulated fans into thinking 8-8 is a good season. I'm not buying it. Every single year in the NFL, teams go from bottom feeders to the playoffs, sometimes even winning the SB. If Ballard did not blow the 2017 draft, and signed a few FA's, specifically WR and RB, the Colts would easily have a winning record and be on track for the playoffs this year. 

[tfunky14]

9 hours ago, IinD said:

That's all fine and dandy, but complaining about wins and draft position at 5 games into the season for me is nonsense. 

 

In week 14/15/16 I get it, but we're already seeing draft position thoughts and threads being talked about.

 

I'll be rooting in my seats at MetLife Sunday for a win. Hopefully folks don't get to sad if we happen to win.. Lol

I agree..Anybody rooting for a lose now this early in the season needs to stop watching football.

Go watch checkers or something

[needanoline63]

I’ll take Ed Oliver

[lollygagger8]

10 hours ago, Introspect said:

This team could go 4-12 or 5-11. The wheels look about ready to fly off.  This Jets game is a code red for this team, they better show up and fight to prevent a meltdown.

[Myles]

8 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

All a personal choice. But tell me, how exactly do you 'root to lose'? Do you wear the opponents jersey and a cardboard JJ Watt face mask? Eat pizza upside down (the pizza, not you). Do you burp out our rivals fight song? Burn your favourite Colts gear in front of the TV while sticking pins in an Andrew Luck bobblehead? Dress your cat in a Titans light blue? Dangle your hairy bits over a calor gas stove while chanting about Marcus Mariota's tidy butt?

 

Anyway, whatever you do, I hope it works out ok for you. Me, I'll just watch the game, and worry about the draft implications after the season is done.

 

GO COWBOYS............err, Colts,I mean.

I think you do the same as rooting for a team to win.   For me, once the Colts are eliminated from the playoffs, I will watch the games and hope they lose.  

[Matthew Gilbert]

Thank you and I appreciate all of the responses. I get the fact that nobody ever really wants to root for their team to lose. As I stated, everyone can see that the Colts are competitive. Probably good enough to make the playoffs but that would be their ceiling THIS YEAR. It would be a shame to miss out on what is shaping out to be one of the most elite D-Line classes in years just because we finish 7-9 or 8-8 in a rebuilding year. 

 

I had them pegged for 6-10 this season. From what I've seen thus far, they have exceeded my expectations with just how competitive they are now. But like I said, they're still a couple of pieces away from contending for the AFC title. With that being said again, I hope they stay in the Ed Oliver/Nick Bosa sweepstakes because they're not going to the SB this year.

[stitches]

2 hours ago, JPFolks said:

We're already playing our youngest players.  Our only ancient FA is now on IR.  Who else would they sit? Vinateri? Luck? Hilton? They are the oldest players on the team that matter.  Sitting any of them would be beyond silly.  They are on field teachers at worst and team leaders across the board.  Vinny doesn't have the years left to do so an I would expect him to retire or change teams if you sat him in the interest of intentionally losing.  The entire thought process is short sighted and the mindset of a perpetual loser.  Mathis wasn't a top draft pick.  Go find the best pass rushers without spotlights on them.  Hell, this year has already proven it can be done in later rounds and even better through clever scheming and calling the right formations and stunts at the right time with whoever is on the field.  Any "management" who takes that approach will be run out of town on a rail in Indianapolis and good riddance to them if they do.  Ruin everything for one player... half of those top picks usually don't pan out as people think.  Instead, do your job in management and find the right players. 

 

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find some FAs to fill in the gaping holes in our depth next year.  They don't have to be starters, but already depending on practice players from other teams is a dangerous way to protect what is left of Luck's career.  We should have drafted at minimum 1 tackle and likely brought in a solid back up Swing Tackle as well to supplement Haeg.  We need to carry at least 10 O lineman next year because it is clear league wide that a position group that used to rarely have significant injury losses in past decades is now rampant and out of control, so we should prepare accordingly.  Give Luck a solid line all season and the rest of the team can be garbage and he can still get us wins.  A few more injuries to Luck and we'll be drafting a new QB before we know it or re-signing our backup to be our starter in a couple years.  If we lose Nelson or our Center who do we have to back up either? Thankfully we can start the era of our 2nd round Guard's career at his intended position for better or worse, but like the others, who are his backups? 6 years and we've never even been close to any season during Manning's career on the O Line quality or depth.  It's inexcusable.  

I was talking more generally than specific to the Colts, because the same old false tropes were being regurgitated in this thread once again.

 

When it comes to the Colts - we are indeed very young and to a certain degree the off-season looks a bit tank-ish already(cutting Hanking, Simon, trading Anderson... not making a stronger offer to Melvin, etc., not spending big bucks on high end talent/depth, but rather keeping the powder dry for when the core of the youth is more ready to win, etc.), but like I said in my post - as long as Luck is healthy and relatively well protected - a tank IMO cannot really succeed. He is just too good and the position he plays at is way too important for the success of the team for a true tank to be feasible. 

 

Also - noone is arguing that this is the only way to get impact players, but it is definitely the way that gives you the best chance simply because... well... because you pick earlier and have your pick of the litter and not only in the first round but through 7 rounds and you have better assets to move around in the draft and secure the players you truly want. This shouldn't really be controversial at all. 

 

I understand the apprehension of that tactic and in football where there are much more moving parts and pieces to a success it's probably not as clearcut good decision as it is in other sports leagues like the NBA where high end success is dictated by very few high end talents and especially for small-market teams the draft is one of the few ways to get top tier talent. 

 

Anyways. My point is... I don't entirely endorse an eventual tank, but I don't condemn it either. I think in certain situations prioritizing the long-term success over winning a few more meaningless games when we are not ready to compete at the highest levels, is not the worst thing that can happen. The important thing is to have the management and coaches you think can lead you to long-term success and for now I think I'm good with both our FO and our coaching staff. I think we've shown some very encouraging signs both talent-wise and coaching-wise, even while losing some of those games. 

[Jason_]

11 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I hate this garbage argument toward the OP's thread. Just look at our draft this year and tell me we didn't get better.

 

What part of "doesn't guarantee" was hard to understand.  Yes, the Colts are most definitely better after this past draft.  But how much better were they after the 2013 draft?  And before anyone goes there, no that was not exclusively the fault of Grigson and/or Pagano.  That was an overall horrible draft.

 

So, no, it's NOT a garbage argument.  It's a perfectly valid point.  Not every draft class is created equal and even players who look great going into the draft will bust big time.  

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

If Colts do not win the next 3 games, Ballard should be getting some serious heat. We ran both Grigson and Pagano out of down for being 8-8, and Ballard has manipulated fans into thinking 8-8 is a good season. I'm not buying it. Every single year in the NFL, teams go from bottom feeders to the playoffs, sometimes even winning the SB. If Ballard did not blow the 2017 draft, and signed a few FA's, specifically WR and RB, the Colts would easily have a winning record and be on track for the playoffs this year. 

 

Ballard hasn't manipulated anyone into thinking anything, and no Ballard will not be getting heat no matter what the Colts record is over the next 3 games.

 

If you'd paid any attention whatsoever to anything that Ballard has said since being hired then you'd understand where we're at and what his reasons have been for everything he's done or hasn't done.  

[aaron11]

id rather see wins, this draft classes doesnt look that great either

 

we would need a top 3 pick to guarantee an elite talent and i dont want to lose that many games.  we might land there naturally though

[Jason_]

Just now, aaron11 said:

id rather see wins, this draft classes doesnt look that great either

 

we would need a top 3 pick to guarantee an elite talent and i dont want to lose that many games.  we might land there naturally though

 

care to explain?