Who in the hell wants to go 8-8?

[coltsva]

14 hours ago, Four2itus said:

 

 

As a long time fan, who has seen many down years, struggling teams, and individual game losses....I want long term validity. I would not trade our last stretch of NFL prowess where this team won so often, it was considered the norm, for lets say.....another SB won or two, but cut the length of our validity in half. Nope....no freaking way.

 

 

 

 

This, 100%. 

[Str8himalaya]

I understand the theory behind it, but I have no desire to lose to improve draft position just as I had no desire for us to punt on 4th and 4 in OT against the Texans. Winning and losing is a learned skill, IMO, you learn how to win in the NFL. The talent is so close (although people tend to think differently), it generally comes down to a mental game and having a losers mentality will almost certainly spell doom in the long run. We need to learn how to win again, especially some of these young guys, and we won't do that by tanking for draft position. That culture is much more important than any one player you can get. 

[ClaytonColt]

It's slightly strange but it's almost as if being bad is seen as a precursor to being good. 

 

Like, the worse you are today then the better you'll be down the line. 

 

Weirdly being bad is seen as closer to being good than simply being average is.

[aaron11]

6 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

It's slightly strange but it's almost as if being bad is seen as a precursor to being good. 

 

Like, the worse you are today then the better you'll be down the line. 

 

Weirdly being bad is seen as closer to being good than simply being average is.

maybe in the nba, i dont think its that clear in the nfl

 

high picks are no guarantee of getting better in football

[Myles]

10 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

It's slightly strange but it's almost as if being bad is seen as a precursor to being good. 

 

Like, the worse you are today then the better you'll be down the line. 

 

Weirdly being bad is seen as closer to being good than simply being average is.

I agree.   Moreso in the NBA, but it also fits in the NFL.  

If 8-8 gets you the 14th pick in the draft, but 6-10 would get you the 6th pick, your team will benefit greatly by going 6-10.   It's not just the first round pick, it is drafting higher in each round.  

No guarantees though, just a good bump up in the odds.  

[tikyle]

So, I was thinking this is going to come up soon so why not just address the deflated football in the room now.  TANKING.  If we lose to the Jets (which is a strong possibility given 1. it's football and 2. our injury report) is it time to start rooting for losses?

 

I know, I know, players don't "tank" in football.  I mean their lives are literally on the line when they play (Slauson).  But as fans who want the best for the team, wouldn't the best scenario be to get the highest pick possible of this lost season and get some positive PT for all of our young players?

 

With all of the bottom teams having their future QB on the roster a top 5 pick could get us a nice trade from a middling team who's tired of their QB situation (see NYG or PIT or JAX).  Just a thought.  But at 1-5 (possibly) the playoffs and the division are surely out of reach.

[CaptainColt12]

I agree theres no point to go like 7-9 or 8-8 where you can't gain too much out of it, but with a top 5 pick I wouldn't want to trade back I'd like to either get one of the three clemson D lineman or a wr like N'Keal Harry or Aj brown. With a top 5 pick we could really put this team ine the playoffs next year.

[aaron11]

they will try to win whether we want them to tank or not

 

ill still be celebrating wins and not losses. 

 

[compuls1v3]

3 minutes ago, CaptainColt12 said:

I agree theres no point to go like 7-9 or 8-8 where you can't gain too much out of it, but with a top 5 pick I wouldn't want to trade back I'd like to either get one of the three clemson D lineman or a wr like N'Keal Harry or Aj brown. With a top 5 pick we could really put this team ine the playoffs next year.

I disagree with this mentality; and I assume any pro athlete would as well.  You play to win, no matter what the circumstances.  That is the only way to get better.

[ojsglove]

The moment I feel like the Colts are losing games on purpose to improve their draft position is the moment they lose me as a fan.

[Coffeedrinker]

4 hours ago, tikyle said:

So, I was thinking this is going to come up soon so why not just address the deflated football in the room now.  TANKING.  If we lose to the Jets (which is a strong possibility given 1. it's football and 2. our injury report) is it time to start rooting for losses?

 

I know, I know, players don't "tank" in football.  I mean their lives are literally on the line when they play (Slauson).  But as fans who want the best for the team, wouldn't the best scenario be to get the highest pick possible of this lost season and get some positive PT for all of our young players?

 

With all of the bottom teams having their future QB on the roster a top 5 pick could get us a nice trade from a middling team who's tired of their QB situation (see NYG or PIT or JAX).  Just a thought.  But at 1-5 (possibly) the playoffs and the division are surely out of reach.

Sure and the Colts could tank every season and keep getting those high draft picks and then they'd have a team of high draft picks that keep losing so they can get high draft picks the following year.

 

And it would be even worse to "tank" the season and draft a WR with a top 5 pick.  No matter how could of a scouting department a team has or how good the GM is, WR is the biggest crap shoot position in the draft.

[Myles]

The team won't be tanking on purpose.  

But if we are eliminated from the playoffs (which wouldn't be this week win or lose), I'll hope they lose.   I won't be too disappointed if they win though.  

[throwing BBZ]

5 hours ago, tikyle said:

So, I was thinking this is going to come up soon so why not just address the deflated football in the room now.  TANKING.  If we lose to the Jets (which is a strong possibility given 1. it's football and 2. our injury report) is it time to start rooting for losses?

 

I know, I know, players don't "tank" in football.  I mean their lives are literally on the line when they play (Slauson).  But as fans who want the best for the team, wouldn't the best scenario be to get the highest pick possible of this lost season and get some positive PT for all of our young players?

 

With all of the bottom teams having their future QB on the roster a top 5 pick could get us a nice trade from a middling team who's tired of their QB situation (see NYG or PIT or JAX).  Just a thought.  But at 1-5 (possibly) the playoffs and the division are surely out of reach.

 

The decision to go with young players was announced with the hiring of Ballard. Irsay said it, Ballard said it. The net results are playing out as is more typical.
 The plan is on target with the expectations to build a strong young base.
Call it what YOU want.

[needanoline63]

On 10/10/2018 at 8:39 AM, lollygagger8 said:

Naw he’s right. We know how the rest of the season will really pan out if we can’t win this game

[Rally5]

On 10/9/2018 at 12:27 PM, Matthew Gilbert said:

As a fan, rooting for a team to finish a mediocre 7-9 or 8-8 is just plain silly to me. The Colts could be 4-1 right now if a handful of things had went their way but they didn't. As banged up as they are, the Colts are still a competitive team right now. Could they rally and sneak into the playoffs? Perhaps, but are they going to make a SB run? I highly doubt it. I think they are clearly a couple of pieces away from really being a contender in the AFC.

 

I know some people are totally against tanking for a higher draft selection but I am not. Is a top draft pick a lock to be a hit? Of course not but adding a Nick Bosa or an Ed Oliver to this team could be huge. Maybe one guy alone won't turn this team into the AFC favorite but I think it will go along way to achieving that. Throw in the two second round picks (both being fairly early) and the core for this team could be set for years to come. 

 

It's pretty clear Chris Ballard isn't likely to spend big in free agency and I'm ok with that. If he thinks they're one piece away and the right fit is there to spend up on, I could see him going after that player. I really like the Colts young core and want to see them to continue to build through the draft as planned. Picking in the 16-22 range in the upcoming draft would not be ideal for next years run at the AFC title. 

These posts show a total lack of understanding of how football works.   

[Matthew Gilbert]

1 hour ago, Rally5 said:

These posts show a total lack of understanding of how football works.   

 Exactly how does football work?

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Rally5 said:

These posts show a total lack of understanding of how football works.   

While the tanking part doesn't make sense, the thought of better draft positions provide better results is spot on. 

 

[lollygagger8]

3 hours ago, needanoline63 said:

Naw he’s right. We know how the rest of the season will really pan out if we can’t win this game

 

Please bestow your wisdom on us and tell us exactly what happens. 

[braveheartcolt]

12 minutes ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

 Exactly how does football work?

Sportsmen/women stop trying when they can't win the title/big prize etc. It happens all the time, you know, like the Olympics Games. Only winners, or those with a chance of Gold actually make an effort. Well, I think that's how it works.

 

Could be wrong mind you. I often am.

[Matthew Gilbert]

10 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Sportsmen/women stop trying when they can't win the title/big prize etc. It happens all the time, you know, like the Olympics Games. Only winners, or those with a chance of Gold actually make an effort. Well, I think that's how it works.

 

Could be wrong mind you. I often am.

Fascinating.

[CaptainColt12]

20 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

I disagree with this mentality; and I assume any pro athlete would as well.  You play to win, no matter what the circumstances.  That is the only way to get better.

Of course you want to win, but doing that could hurt our chances to win next year. I wasn't saying to tank, I was saying I would rather be like 4-12 or 5-11 just cause were not good enough and I know Ballard can fix that this offseason. It kinda sucks to have that mantality but I just think that would be better for the team.

[tikyle]

16 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Sure and the Colts could tank every season and keep getting those high draft picks and then they'd have a team of high draft picks that keep losing so they can get high draft picks the following year.

 

And it would be even worse to "tank" the season and draft a WR with a top 5 pick.  No matter how could of a scouting department a team has or how good the GM is, WR is the biggest crap shoot position in the draft.

 

Who said anything about a WR?  I know you're being sarcastic about tanking but lets not forget that 5+ years of when JAX and HOU were crap.  They've lined up some pretty impressive defensive talent (and offensive talent in HOU case) from those years.  I know everyone wants to win but the best thing that came out of last year was the fact that now we have a generational OG and LB.  Two guys who can anchor the middle of our offense and defense for at least 5 years barring injury.  Going 9-7 and losing in the wild card round last year would not have been nearly as valuable as getting those two guys.

 

This team is some luck on health and one or two impact players away from being a Superbowl contender.  I think if we had one more dynamic offensive threat (RB preferably or WR) and one more impact DL we are right there.

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

Fascinating.

Thank you Matthew, that is very kind. I thought it was very silly, but I'm glad you found it interesting.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 10/10/2018 at 12:45 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

We're 1-4 because of a new coaching staff, Luck being rusty, and a rash of injuries.

 

That's not all, there's a lot more.  I'll add just one at this time.

 

We are the most one dimensional team in the league.  The average NFL pass/run average balance is 61% pass and 39% run.

 

Colts are 72% pass and 28% run. (last in league in run %)

 

Last couple games Luck has not been all that rusty (because of the above) but Colts still losing games.

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Sportsmen/women stop trying when they can't win the title/big prize etc. It happens all the time, you know, like the Olympics Games. Only winners, or those with a chance of Gold actually make an effort. Well, I think that's how it works.

 

Could be wrong mind you. I often am.

 

No way.  (Notably Olympic athletes)

 

Those athletes worked very hard and trained all of their lives, rose to the top of the class in their event(s) in their countries.  And you feel some are going to not give 100% effort when called for their event?  Elite athletes have some ego to them, and believe they can compete or even upset others on a good day (and sometimes it happens!). If they don't give their best and try to win, why did they even sacrifice so much of their lives to get there?

 

NFL athletes try to get more playing days/contracts/$$.  They can't if their tape shows they 'give up' or take plays off.  Yes, coaches can see this on film.

 

‘It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.‘

[braveheartcolt]

31 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

No way.  (Notably Olympic athletes)

 

Those athletes worked very hard and trained all of their lives, rose to the top of the class in their event(s) in their countries.  And you feel some are going to not give 100% effort when called for their event?  Elite athletes have some ego to them, and believe they can compete or even upset others on a good day (and sometimes it happens!). If they don't give their best and try to win, why did they even sacrifice so much of their lives to get there?

 

NFL athletes try to get more playing days/contracts/$$.  They can't if their tape shows they 'give up' or take plays off.  Yes, coaches can see this on film.

 

‘It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.‘

Sorry. It's was sarcasm. Thought it was obvious. Oops.

[Coffeedrinker]

2 hours ago, tikyle said:

 

Who said anything about a WR?  I know you're being sarcastic about tanking but lets not forget that 5+ years of when JAX and HOU were crap.  They've lined up some pretty impressive defensive talent (and offensive talent in HOU case) from those years.  I know everyone wants to win but the best thing that came out of last year was the fact that now we have a generational OG and LB.  Two guys who can anchor the middle of our offense and defense for at least 5 years barring injury.  Going 9-7 and losing in the wild card round last year would not have been nearly as valuable as getting those two guys.

 

This team is some luck on health and one or two impact players away from being a Superbowl contender.  I think if we had one more dynamic offensive threat (RB preferably or WR) and one more impact DL we are right there.

Sorry, hit the quote button in the wrong post when I replied, but to answer your question CaptainColt12.

 

Let's assume for a second that your are correct, that the team is one or two impact players from being a superbowl contender.

1.  How is that really determined unless the team tries to win?

2.  Impact players are found all through the draft not just in the top 5 or 10 draft picks.  The generational LB you mentioned is proof of that.  While I am not a believer that pro bowl RBs can be found in the later rounds, I do believe that you can find those RBs in rounds 2 and a little less frequently in 3.  Same thing with WRs.  If you look at the WR position, those drafted in the latter half of the 1st round do better overall than those drafted in the top 10.  DL could make a difference, there is often times a big drop between top 10 draft pick DL versus later 1st round DL but the difference of one player is not worth tanking the season.

 

[Four2itus]

3 hours ago, CaptainColt12 said:

Of course you want to win, but doing that could hurt our chances to win next year. I wasn't saying to tank, I was saying I would rather be like 4-12 or 5-11 just cause were not good enough and I know Ballard can fix that this offseason. It kinda sucks to have that mantality but I just think that would be better for the team.

I think you just accidentally made up a new word....one I happen to like a lot. (the rest of this post not directed at you)

 

Mantality - The mental state of a male fan who uses terms such as: 

 

"no excuse to lose this game"

"we should tank for a better draft pick"

"players are weak today"

"this is flag football"

"if he was tough, he's be out there playing"

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Sorry. It's was sarcasm. Thought it was obvious. Oops.

 

Oh, it went right by me. Words meanings on the internet are not always obvious, at least to me. You know, there are emoticons here that help in this situation...

 

 

Just sayin' ...

 

[IcyRhythms]

Idk, but they need to figure it out. Before you know it, Luck will be in his prime, five to six years will have passed, and I don't want to be asking if we're really going 8-8. I know Brady said he wants to play until he's 50. We all know that's not going to happen. Bill wants to prove he can at least make the playoffs without Brady, and probably hopes he'll retire sooner than later. The AFC is weak and predictable. The whole organization needs to get a lot more serious about winning.

[tikyle]

2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I think you just accidentally made up a new word....one I happen to like a lot. (the rest of this post not directed at you)

 

Mantality - The mental state of a male fan who uses terms such as: 

 

"no excuse to lose this game"

"we should tank for a better draft pick"

"players are weak today"

"this is flag football"

"if he was tough, he's be out there playing"

 

 

 

That mantality guy would never say the bolded sentence.  He'd say "you play to win the game", "they are who we thought they were" and "2nd place is just 1 place losers!!"

[Four2itus]

21 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

That mantality guy would never say the bolded sentence.  He'd say "you play to win the game", "they are who we thought they were" and "2nd place is just 1 place losers!!"

I agree...too late to edit. 

[braveheartcolt]

10 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Oh, it went right by me. Words meanings on the internet are not always obvious, at least to me. You know, there are emoticons here that help in this situation...

 

 

Just sayin' ...

 

Yeah, I know, but I'm too old to use them!

 

If you remember PeytonGirl, a great Mod from back in the day, she kindly designed a tartan smiley for me to use, but I still didn't budge. Set in my ways. Bet you don't miss my sarcasm going forwards though (insert 'wink' emoji here)....

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Yeah, I know, but I'm too old to use them!

 

If you remember PeytonGirl, a great Mod from back in the day, she kindly designed a tartan smiley for me to use, but I still didn't budge. Set in my ways. Bet you don't miss my sarcasm going forwards though (insert 'wink' emoji here)....

 

ASCII  !!

 

;-)

 

The Alt key was once a favorite of mine ... long ago. Ha!

 

http://asciimoji.com/

 

(P.S. - I'm no spring chicken)

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 10/11/2018 at 11:07 AM, aaron11 said:

maybe in the nba, i dont think its that clear in the nfl

 

high picks are no guarantee of getting better in football

i concur, look at cleveland, thus the fallacy of only building through the draft

[Lawrence Owen]

I have posted my thoughts on this multiple times.  I've been trying to hold back, hoping this thread would end up off the front page quickly. But to my disappointment, it has stayed up near the top.  Most likely due to how controversial it is. So, here is my Bi-annual response of the past 2 years:

Losing on purpose breeds losing mentality. Which More difficult to shake off when you finally decide to 'try' to win.  Always best to keep a winners mentality.

(Wow, i was able to do a sum up! Instead of a 600 word essay!...go me!...lol)

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I have posted my thoughts on this multiple times.  I've been trying to hold back, hoping this thread would end up off the front page quickly. But to my disappointment, it has stayed up near the top.  Most likely due to how controversial it is. So, here is my Bi-annual response of the past 2 years:

Losing on purpose breeds losing mentality. Which More difficult to shake off when you finally decide to 'try' to win.  Always best to keep a winners mentality.

(Wow, i was able to do a sum up! Instead of a 600 word essay!...go me!...lol)

Wahay! Give yourself a pat on the back Lawrence. And if you should miss and strike your shoulder, be comforted in the knowledge that next year you will get a better opportunity to self congratulate, which of course is no guarantee to be a better experience, but we all know the earlier you can reward yourself, the better the odds you have of enjoying it. 

 

But do not dare to hit your shoulder on purpose. Just sayin'......

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

i concur, look at cleveland, thus the fallacy of only building through the draft

Cleveland is a bad example to use. Bad draft picks have been common for them and had those picks been better they would have gotten better and in turn wouldn't have had as many early picks.

[Lawrence Owen]

30 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Wahay! Give yourself a pat on the back Lawrence. And if you should miss and strike your shoulder, be comforted in the knowledge that next year you will get a better opportunity to self congratulate, which of course is no guarantee to be a better experience, but we all know the earlier you can reward yourself, the better the odds you have of enjoying it. 

 

But do not dare to hit your shoulder on purpose. Just sayin'......

Now, i'm impressed. That was the 'tur-duck-en' of statements

[aaron11]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Cleveland is a bad example to use. Bad draft picks have been common for them and had those picks been better they would have gotten better and in turn wouldn't have had as many early picks.

the only good reason to tank is for a qb.  the good teams in the league now didnt get there by losing