Basham

[hoosierhawk]

On a positive note, I thought Basham had a good game and showed some real promise. Read earlier today on this site that he was a bust so was happy he played well.

[csmopar]

For some reason Pagano doesn't like to upset the status quo as far as letting young players earn their stripes 

[IndyScribe]

Yep. Played well today. Those people calling him a bust are overreacting. He's switching to a new scheme and position. If he can reach his potential, he'll be a decent player.

[Malakai432]

I don't really see him as a dominant starter barring a miracle but he could be solid depth, and this team needs ALOT of quality depth  .

[#12.]

2-6

 

Let him and the other rookies play.  See what you have.

[Stephen]

That is why wilson should be playing

[DougDew]

I think Ballard called him out publicly so the idea of him not working out had some substance.  I hope he continues to play well and improve.

[oldunclemark]

30 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

On a positive note, I thought Basham had a good game and showed some real promise. Read earlier today on this site that he was a bust so was happy he played well.

we played hard and well today....we just were a little unlucky in the end and lost by one

[Defjamz26]

27 minutes ago, IndyScribe said:

Yep. Played well today. Those people calling him a bust are overreacting. He's switching to a new scheme and position. If he can reach his potential, he'll be a decent player.

He’s also probably not ready. But I agree with you. Pagano has a history of stifling the development of young players. Basham should be getting more snaps but he’s probably really raw as well.

[NewColtsFan]

24 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

I don't really see him as a dominant starter barring a miracle but he could be solid depth, and this team needs ALOT of quality depth  .

 

Why would you conclude what a player's future is based on 8 games?     Half of a rookie season?

 

No one has any idea what the kid is capable of.      

 

Drawing conclusions on such a small sample size is counter-productive.

 

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

He’s also probably not ready. But I agree with you. Pagano has a history of stifling the development of young players. Basham should be getting more snaps but he’s probably really raw as well.

 

4 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

He’s also probably not ready. But I agree with you. Pagano has a history of stifling the development of young players. Basham should be getting more snaps but he’s probably really raw as well.

 

You keep running into walls at high speed.....

 

OK.....   feel free to spell out the "history of stifling the development of young players...."

 

Go ahead......

 

P.S. --- do you even realize that Ballard himself called out Basham as a player who has to start delivering more on the field....       but you think this is another Pagano issue.....

 

[Malakai432]

17 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Why would you conclude what a player's future is based on 8 games?     Half of a rookie season?

 

No one has any idea what the kid is capable of.      

 

Drawing conclusions on such a small sample size is counter-productive.

 

 

All I said was I don't see him being elite, which is most likely true because elite pass rushers aren't easy to find at all.  Yeah of course I hope I'm wrong.  Sides I like being counter productive, you should know that  !!!

[richard pallo]

A Basham sighting.  I couldn't believe it.  Great sack.  Let's hope it's only the beginning.

[Sumo63]

Me too

[GoColts8818]

Hopefully it’s a sign of him starting to become the pass rusher the Colts so desperately need.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

You keep running into walls at high speed.....

 

OK.....   feel free to spell out the "history of stifling the development of young players...."

 

Go ahead......

 

P.S. --- do you even realize that Ballard himself called out Basham as a player who has to start delivering more on the field....       but you think this is another Pagano issue.....

 

There are countless examples

 

-2012 Vick Ballard (Donald Brown started over him for a few games)

-2014 Donte Moncrief played behind Hakeem Nicks and then Andre Johnson in 2015. He went in to out-produce both each respective year.

-Marlon Mack 2 carries (we all remember this one)

-Didn’t start Hooker week 1

-Anderson behind Arthur Jones

-Jonathan Newsome in 2014 despite leading the team in sacks that year.

 

And injuries are the only reason Anderson and Mewhort saw extensive rookie action. If not for those injuries they’d be on the list too.

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Why would you conclude what a player's future is based on 8 games?     Half of a rookie season?

 

No one has any idea what the kid is capable of.      

 

Drawing conclusions on such a small sample size is counter-productive.

 

I have been pretty critical of Basham because he has deserved it so far...like worse than TJ Green last year...I haven't wrote either off but it was nice to see the kid make a play. He has looked over matched out there and worse totally lost but hopefully this is the start of something special with him.

[SevaColt]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

There are countless examples

 

-2012 Vick Ballard (Donald Brown started over him for a few games)

-2014 Donte Moncrief played behind Hakeem Nicks and then Andre Johnson in 2015. He went in to out-produce both each respective year.

-Marlon Mack 2 carries (we all remember this one)

-Didn’t start Hooker week 1

-Anderson behind Arthur Jones

-Jonathan Newsome in 2014 despite leading the team in sacks that year.

 

And injuries are the only reason Anderson and Mewhort saw extensive rookie action. If not for those injuries they’d be on the list too.

Heyward-Bey over TY in 12 for many games. The centers in 12,13,14 over anyone who could snap or block is another . Tolzien  this year over any other QB in camp.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

There are countless examples

 

-2012 Vick Ballard (Donald Brown started over him for a few games)

-2014 Donte Moncrief played behind Hakeem Nicks and then Andre Johnson in 2015. He went in to out-produce both each respective year.

-Marlon Mack 2 carries (we all remember this one)

-Didn’t start Hooker week 1

-Anderson behind Arthur Jones

-Jonathan Newsome in 2014 despite leading the team in sacks that year.

 

And injuries are the only reason Anderson and Mewhort saw extensive rookie action. If not for those injuries they’d be on the list too.

 

Defjamz.....

 

I hope you know by now, I love you madly....    it's always fun talking draft stuff with you....

 

But you've got so much of this either wrong,  or backwards....

 

This will be a long post to address every player you listed.....

 

Vick Ballard's rookie year....     16 games,  16 starts!      He was never BEHIND anyone.     And he led the team in rushing!     What more did you want?

 

Henry Anderson's rookie year.....    9 games,  9 starts.      He was not behind Art Jones.    He started.   Then he got hurt in the Denver game where Luck got hurt.      But Henry started every game.

 

Newsome?     Played situationally because he was good on passing downs,  but terrible on other downs.    He had 6 sacks.    He was used properly and smoked enough dope that he's out of the league.

 

Moncrief came to the Colts out of Mississippi which didn't have a very sophisticated passing offense,  and everyone, including Grigson said so at the time.     He played behind Nicks as a rookie,  but he played and did well.    It's not as if he didn't play.     Then, his 2nd year,  he started 10 games and had 64 catches.   He played his way past Andre Johnson.     We used Moncrief and he did well.     He was developed.    His current problems have little to do with coaches not developing,   they have to do with injuries slowing his progress.

 

Hooker only didn't start his 1st game.    He missed almost the entire pre-season and literally wasn't ready when the season started.    It's a miracle we got him somewhat up to speed as fast as we did.     He got 3 interceptions in his first two games.      The only thing that stopped him is injury,  not Pagano.

 

Mack.....     didn't play two games due to injury.     Not due to coaches decision.    His game is still limited as is clear to most anyone.     He'll be used more and more.     Did you happen to see the game Gore had today?    Over 5 yards a carry.     Mack?    Not even close.     He's still a situational player at this point, but he will be used more and everyone says so....    Pagano has said it, and so has Ballard.  

 

You seem to think not starting game 1 of a rookie year is some sort of black mark on a HC.     It's not.    Sometimes a rookie is just not ready for a variety of reasons.     And there's no way for you to know if the coach is making a mistake or not.    Put another way,   there's a reason why one of the oldest true-ism in the NFL is that the largest improvement for a player typically comes between their first and second year.    

 

Last thought.....   if Pagano is so terrible about developing young players....    answer this simple question....

 

Who is the player that Pagano didn't develop properly who went elsewhere and is doing much better?     Are there a lot of them?       Fleener?     No.     Allen?     No.      Chapman?    No.    Hughes?     No.      Brazil?     No.    Newsroom?       No.      Smith?      No.      Parry?      No.      Holmes?     No.      Thornton?      No.    Werner?    No.

 

Need more examples?      I'm guessing no.   

 

It's not like Pagano is screwing up good players.    They're not going elsewhere and developing with other coaches.  

 

Pagano has plenty of weaknesses.     Superman has laid them out in a number of good posts.    But this idea of not developing young players is a myth.....     Right now it's an out of control myth based on the situations with Wilson and Mack.    

 

 

 

[lollygagger8]

Basham is getting there. 

 

I think George needs more reps at ILB. At least he can cover. 

[NewEra]

I was expecting to see a post trying to Basham.... 

 

im giving the rook some slack on the field at least. Better be busting his hump behind the scenes.

[VaAllDay757]

He has a good bull rush just use him on passing downs and don't drop him in coverage

[Smash Mouth]

14 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

. Pagano has a history of stifling the development of young players. Basham should be getting more snaps but he’s probably really raw as well.

This is one of the main reasons why Pagano needs to go.

[BProland85]

3 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Basham is getting there. 

 

I think George needs more reps at ILB. At least he can cover. 

 

I was really hoping that Telvin Smith would make it to free agency next offseason but he just signed an extension with the Jags. ILB is a huge need going into the 2018 offseason, and hopefully Ballard will bring in some talent there especially in coverage and sideline to sideline ability. 

[lollygagger8]

2 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

I was really hoping that Telvin Smith would make it to free agency next offseason but he just signed an extension with the Jags. ILB is a huge need going into the 2018 offseason, and hopefully Ballard will bring in some talent there especially in coverage and sideline to sideline ability. 

 

Hopefully we'll get E Jax back next year as well. That will help. 

Side note: I wanted Colts to pick Reddick sooooooooooooo bad during the draft! 

[Jason_]

14 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

On a positive note, I thought Basham had a good game and showed some real promise. Read earlier today on this site that he was a bust so was happy he played well.

 

If you ever read a post by anyone calling a rookie a bust...that's your signal to not listen to anything that poster ever has to say.

[Defjamz26]

Just now, lollygagger8 said:

 

Hopefully we'll get E Jax back next year as well. That will help. 

Not really . Jackson was just another overhyped bottom tier player over-praised by fans looking for an answer. He’s decent depth at best. No one is holding their breath on the return Edwin Jackson.

[stitches]

I was never a huge Basham fan in the pre-draft process. Hopefully he makes me eat crow. 

[lollygagger8]

33 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Not really . Jackson was just another overhyped bottom tier player over-praised by fans looking for an answer. He’s decent depth at best. No one is holding their breath on the return Edwin Jackson.

Incorrect. 

 

Jackson is better in coverage than Morrison and Bostic combined. 

(not that it's hard to do) 

[GusBus24]

Mingo was all over the field as well. This man's speed is unreal for a LB and he needs to be on the field all the time. His play yesterday was AWESOME!

[rockywoj]

Backfield Bashing Basham!  I hope he develops to become such a disrupter.

[krunk]

I'm being patient on Terrell.    It's been a bigger transition for him than I thought, but you certainly don't throw in the towel after 8 games or 1 year.   I felt like he needed to get that first sack to start stepping in the right direction.   We'll see what happens from here.

[deadman]

Great job getting a sack Basham but it didn't really look like the Bengals OT gave a supreme effort. I'm hopeful that this is just the beginning of many big plays but I still leaning towards meh.

 

In other news... .Mingo! I'm excited to see what he can do. Effort player that is freakishly fast for his size. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

16 hours ago, #12. said:

2-6

 

Let him and the other rookies play.  See what you have.

 

Sounds good, right? 

 

But we don't know all that goes on.  Just how many starting vets have incentive clauses in their contracts for reaching certain incentive milestones?  Don't you think they'll bark at the coaches , GM, and even the owner for getting benched to let rookies play when they're not injured?  So not only do they not get to participate in the games anymore, they might get their paychecks reduced too?

 

They have to earn their way on, being better in practice, meetings, film room, etc...Those rookies are trying to take the vets jobs, and they won't let it happen willingly.

[#12.]

You act as though, in football, one player at one position plays every snap of every game.  That's rarely the case.  You don't have to bench anyone to give rookies more reps.

 

Also, with most of the budget type players we have on this defense, I would be surprised if their contracts were heavily incentive-laden.

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, Smash Mouth said:

This is one of the main reasons why Pagano needs to go.

 

No, it's not.  There are plenty of reasons why Pagano needs to go but not developing players is not one of them.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I'm being patient on Terrell.    It's been a bigger transition for him than I thought, but you certainly don't throw in the towel after 8 games or 1 year.   I felt like he needed to get that first sack to start stepping in the right direction.   We'll see what happens from here.

I'm surprised Ballard wasn't more patient with Banner.

[krunk]

33 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I'm surprised Ballard wasn't more patient with Banner.

I think he would have shown better than what we are getting out of Clark possibly. However in the grand scheme of things when you put roster cuts in consideration and specifically having to carry 3 quarterbacks he would have had to beat out Costanzo, Kelly, Haeg, Good, Vujnovich or Clark.   They already had enough film on Vuj and Clark to versus what they were seeing from Banner to help in their decision making process.  Plus Vuj and Clark can play multiple positions.  Banner was just a tackle and sort of slow footed so I'm sure they looked at him as developmental.  I'm sure they were thinking PS, but Cleveland got him before that happened.

[richard pallo]

32 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think he would have shown better than what we are getting out of Clark possibly. However in the grand scheme of things when you put roster cuts in consideration and specifically having to carry 3 quarterbacks he would have had to beat out Costanzo, Kelly, Haeg, Good, Vujnovich or Clark.   They already had enough film on Vuj and Clark to versus what they were seeing from Banner to help in their decision making process.  Plus Vuj and Clark can play multiple positions.  Banner was just a tackle and sort of slow footed so I'm sure they looked at him as developmental.  I'm sure they were thinking PS, but Cleveland got him before that happened.

Right now he's on their depth chart as a backup tackle. 

[Douzer]

Loved the sack! Didn't care for the over-the-top celebration...