Dontari Poe scheduled to visit

[OLD FAN MAN]

6 hours ago, Shadow_Creek said:

i don't really care who you are. nor do i care about your experience on this site. however i do care about facts, and facts tell me that Kansas city was not doing so well till CB showed up and help put the right blue prints in that made that franchise a contender you now see today. 

i concur

[OLD FAN MAN]

8 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

Does it really matter what the final numbers are? especially to us Fans.

 

As long as the deal wont hancuff us to sign others and our own.

The most important thing is what kind of production he gives us AND if his health will allow him to play at a high level.

i agree

[Colts1324]

41 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

Can't be satisfied with Edwin Jackson. We've already improved our edge an ILB like Foster or Reddick next to hypothetically signing Zach Brown/Kevin Minter makes our front 7 ready to win rn. Build the secondary in this deep class round 2 and 3 corner and a safety or 2 corners. Wouldve been nice to have Poe, hopefully we go after another nice NT that's a big need. Reddick also has the ability to rush the passer on 3rd down at a high level. 

Good teams like the Seahawks, Patriots, and Steelers have been so good the last several years(Patriots and Steelers for a longer period of time) because they have had and allowed undrafted free agents or late draft picks break out. Edwin Jackson was raw and he became our signal caller as a rookie who was not expected to have any playing time. I think he played pretty solid. He's a physical, hard-hitting linebacker that we have been missing. I wouldn't be upset if he was our No. 2 or No. 3 as I think the coaches know if he is good enough.  But don't be surprised if he is out there starting next year. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

7 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

Signing Simon and Sheard is fine, just as signing Jean-Francois and Walden were fine......

difference is ballard dosent give big money to average players

[Tmoney]

41 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

Good teams like the Seahawks, Patriots, and Steelers have been so good the last several years(Patriots and Steelers for a longer period of time) because they have had and allowed undrafted free agents or late draft picks break out. Edwin Jackson was raw and he became our signal caller as a rookie who was not expected to have any playing time. I think he played pretty solid. He's a physical, hard-hitting linebacker that we have been missing. I wouldn't be upset if he was our No. 2 or No. 3 as I think the coaches know if he is good enough.  But don't be surprised if he is out there starting next year. 

Has nothing to do with Edwin Jackson. He's undersized and not good is coverage. He was our best ILB last year but that's not saying much. If he is our starter I'm not expecting anything by average play, by no means am I saying he sucks or is bad, but he is what he is an average player. 

[Jackie Daytona]

1 hour ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

difference is ballard dosent give big money to average players

oh, Grigson definitely overpayed......  witness this link, people then thought he overpayed greatly.....  hindsight being 20-20, he definitely did.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000150830/article/ricky-jeanfrancois-signs-22m-contract-with-colts

 

[NewColtsFan]

 

Here's a good IndyStar story about the Poe visit and what could still happen with Poe,  and with other possible players.

 

Not very long but gets to the heart of the matter.     Worth your time to read....

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2017/03/12/insider-poe-colts-cant-strike-deal-but-signing-still-possible/99102422/

[NannyMcafee]

44 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Here's a good IndyStar story about the Poe visit and what could still happen with Poe,  and with other possible players.

 

Not very long but gets to the heart of the matter.     Worth your time to read....

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2017/03/12/insider-poe-colts-cant-strike-deal-but-signing-still-possible/99102422/

 

Guess we will see what happens. I for one want it to. 

[Case]

I personally would like to get Hankins. Hope they bring him in asap. 

[Finball]

FWIW

 

Quote

5. Dontari Poe, DI, Kansas City Chiefs

2016 overall grade: 55.8 (59th among interior defenders)

The Kansas City nose tackle dealt with a recurring back injury this past season, but the misconception of Poe’s play is still stunning. Simply put, his recent production has never matched the level of 2013 (86.4 grade). Naturally, as a nose tackle, you’ll see your fair share of double-teams over the course of the season. However, Poe was not able to consistently disengage with defenders as he had in the past. He wasn’t beaten badly out of his gap, but he also didn’t finish on plays, ending the year with a run-stop percentage of 4.0, good for 70th of 75 defensive tackles

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-10-big-name-players-that-failed-to-perform-in-2016

[Colts1324]

8 hours ago, Tmoney said:

Has nothing to do with Edwin Jackson. He's undersized and not good is coverage. He was our best ILB last year but that's not saying much. If he is our starter I'm not expecting anything by average play, by no means am I saying he sucks or is bad, but he is what he is an average player. 

Robert Mathis was considered undersized. He is a potential HOFer. I think Jackson could develop to be pretty good. Maybe not. But I like his potential. 

[Jason_]

13 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

What does wade philips guys have to do with this? They basically called him undersized in his draft profile...."short, stubby arms and legs" that's part of his weakness http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/david-parry?id=2552438

 

I brought up Wade Phillips because he runs a very similar scheme on defense as what the colts have ran the past 2 years.   A lot of people on here still haven't figured that out and hence often refer to some of our guys (Parry in particular) as being too small for our defense.  So when you say he's  undersized, I'm thinking in terms of weight/girth.  So that was just a misunderstanding.

 

As to that draft profile, it does say the following:

 

Quote

Needs more pure girth in order to hold up to NFL double teams. Questions about whether frame is maxed out. Short, stubby arms and legs.

.

I know you specifically addressed the short, stubby arms and legs, but I wanted to comment on the portion I bolded...that would be true if he was playing in a 2-gap defense, but in our defense he's not asked to take on double teams often but rather to shoot gaps and cause disruption in the backfield.  That he does relatively well for a 5th round pick. 

[CR91]

Poe is visiting the dolphins next after the jags. No news yet how that visit went. Don't know why the fins would wanna invest more money at DT when their already paying suh 19 mil

[PeterBowman]

9 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Poe is visiting the dolphins next after the jags. No news yet how that visit went. Don't know why the fins would wanna invest more money at DT when their already paying suh 19 mil

from the looks of things, if he doesn't sign with Jax it probably meant that he had no intention of signing just now anyways...not until he weighs all offers.

[ColtsArmy84]

We also cant afford to sit around and wait on his decision while other free agents are falling off the board.

[cdgacoltsfan]

31 minutes ago, ColtsArmy84 said:

We also cant afford to sit around and wait on his decision while other free agents are falling off the board.

Forget Poe...We should sign Hankins

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Anyone know how the NT outlook is via the draft? The defensive tackle position is my least looked at position and my least knowledgeable. So any detail at all is greatly appreciated. @Jason_S I know you obviously know what you're talking about when it comes to that position. 

[aaron11]

6 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Anyone know how the NT outlook is via the draft? The defensive tackle position is my least looked at position and my least knowledgeable. So any detail at all is greatly appreciated. @Jason_S I know you obviously know what you're talking about when it comes to that position. 

3-4 NT is possibly the hardest position to fill in the nfl next to QB.  you can always throw some guy there like parry but good or elite players are rare.

 

as for this draft, there are no obviously good NTs which is usually the norm

[aaron11]

poe was probably the best prospect in recent memory

 

he had two good years, and was meh after that

[Colt Overseas]

 

Its not over yet.

[PrincetonTiger]

I think it is time to move on

[Jason_]

55 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Anyone know how the NT outlook is via the draft? The defensive tackle position is my least looked at position and my least knowledgeable. So any detail at all is greatly appreciated. @Jason_S I know you obviously know what you're talking about when it comes to that position. 

 

I appreciate that However I haven't really taken a look at any of the prospects in the draft so couldn't really comment.

[Virtuoso80]

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

19 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

Hes not undersized for the 1 gap the colts have been running the last 2 years

He is to me I would personally like a nose tackle to be at least 320  and over 6 foot. No matter what scheme we play just saying..

[Jason_]

Just now, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

He is to me I would personally like a nose tackle to be at least 320  and over 6 foot. No matter what scheme we play just saying..

 

guys that size rarely have the athletic ability to also shoot gaps, which makes them a poor fit for a 1 gap defense.  I think Poe is one of the rare exceptions and that's why the colts were going after him.  If they can't land Poe, i'd be surprised if they went after another big bodied guy like that.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

3-4 NT is possibly the hardest position to fill in the nfl next to QB.  you can always throw some guy there like parry but good or elite players are rare.

 

as for this draft, there are no obviously good NTs which is usually the norm

 

I'm sorry,  but no.

 

The next hardest is pass rush.   

 

As for Nose Tackle,  while it's nice to have a premier player at the Nose,  it's not necessary for a successful defense.     Many teams have had a good defense without a premier Nose Tackle.

 

Also,  look at your own argument,  you even agree about the difference between a JAG and an elite player.

 

Well,  the same can be true about other positions.....    Inside linebacker,  running back,  safety....    

 

It's hard to find elite players at the Nose,  because typically,  if there's an elite D-lineman,  they don't put him on the Nose.      It's hard to find rare size and rare skills for the nose.   If you want to change your argument that it's just hard to find an ELITE NOSE TACKLE,   that's fine.

 

But your original argument, about the hardest to fill other than Quarterback is not true at all.....

 

Perhaps it's the wording....    but I'd re-think this one....

 

[aaron11]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm sorry,  but no.

 

The next hardest is pass rush.   

 

As for Nose Tackle,  while it's nice to have a premier player at the Nose,  it's not necessary for a successful defense.     Many teams have had a good defense without a premier Nose Tackle.

 

Also,  look at your own argument,  you even agree about the difference between a JAG and an elite player.

 

Well,  the same can be true about other positions.....    Inside linebacker,  running back,  safety....    

 

It's hard to find elite players at the Nose,  because typically,  if there's an elite D-lineman,  they don't put him on the Nose.      It's hard to find rare size and rare skills for the nose.   If you want to change your argument that it's just hard to find an ELITE NOSE TACKLE,   that's fine.

 

But your original argument, about the hardest to fill other than Quarterback is not true at all.....

 

Perhaps it's the wording....    but I'd re-think this one....

 

no youre wrong, its true

 

name me the elite nose tackles in the nfl, ill wait

 

then ill name even more pass rushers.  a really good nose tackle is that rare

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

53 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

guys that size rarely have the athletic ability to also shoot gaps, which makes them a poor fit for a 1 gap defense.  I think Poe is one of the rare exceptions and that's why the colts were going after him.  If they can't land Poe, i'd be surprised if they went after another big bodied guy like that.

I wouldn't be and expect the colts to look for one in free agency or draft. You can't have a guy undersized playing the amount of snaps parry plays getting pounded on almost every play without a guy to help him out.

[aaron11]

41 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

     It's hard to find rare size and rare skills for the nose.

 

this is my argument

 

you said it yourself

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I wouldn't be and expect the colts to look for one in free agency or draft. You can't have a guy undersized playing the amount of snaps parry plays getting pounded on almost every play without a guy to help him out.

 

I didn't say they wouldn't bring in another NT...I just wouldn't expect it to be a 320+ lb guy.  I'd expect another guy with similar size, though maybe better length than Parry.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

6 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

I didn't say they wouldn't bring in another NT...I just wouldn't expect it to be a 320+ lb guy.  I'd expect another guy with similar size, though maybe better length than Parry.

310 to 325

[backshoulderfade]

I think Poe is going to weigh all the offers after he has completed his tour of visits. Hopefully staying in the midwest, Ballard and staying in a 3-4 will be factors. Not sure if he wants to stay in a 3-4 though.

[NewColtsFan]

16 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

no youre wrong, its true

 

name me the elite nose tackles in the nfl, ill wait

 

then ill name even more pass rushers.  a really good nose tackle is that rare

 

As I said in the other post,  you've changed the argument.

 

Your first argument was not about elite nose tackle....    it was just about filling the spot.

 

Here is your sentence,  I'm cutting and pasting it....

 

"3-4 NT is possibly the hardest position to fill in the nfl next to QB."

 

NOW you're talking about ELITE nose tackle talent and that's a different argument.    You've changed the argument.

 

Most NFL gm's don't care about having an ELITE nose tackle.   They're happy if they get one,  but it's not high on their priority list.     Notice that KC isn't trying to keep Poe.   They're willing to let him walk and get nothing in return.    

 

The spot isn't hard to fill.    It may be hard to fill with an elite guy,  but few GM's really care.

 

What they do really care about is pass rush.     Can't find ELITE pass rush.    So far,  there's ONE in this draft, Garrett.     And there are still 32 teams.       ELITE pass rush is hard to find,  and it's more important to find.

 

 

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

As I said in the other post,  you've changed the argument.

 

Your first argument was not about elite nose tackle....    it was just about filling the spot.

 

Here is your sentence,  I'm cutting and pasting it....

 

"3-4 NT is possibly the hardest position to fill in the nfl next to QB."

 

NOW you're talking about ELITE nose tackle talent and that's a different argument.    You've changed the argument.

 

Most NFL gm's don't care about having an ELITE nose tackle.   They're happy if they get one,  but it's not high on their priority list.     Notice that KC isn't trying to keep Poe.   They're willing to let him walk and get nothing in return.    

 

The spot isn't hard to fill.    It may be hard to fill with an elite guy,  but few GM's really care.

 

What they do really care about is pass rush.     Can't find ELITE pass rush.    So far,  there's ONE in this draft, Garrett.     And there are still 32 teams.       ELITE pass rush is hard to find,  and it's more important to find.

 

 

 

In the pass happy NFL, teams use hybrid WR/RB, scat RBs etc. to compensate for the lack of a true run game, the short pass is used by so many teams to get the small yards. That is another reason why teams do not invest in those big 340-350 lb NTs because the laws of physics suggest there is only so much hustle, gap shooting and recovery you can expect from those extremely big guys. Thus the NT position is getting a little lighter, IMO.

 

 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, backshoulderfade said:

I think Poe is going to weigh all the offers after he has completed his tour of visits. Hopefully staying in the midwest, Ballard and staying in a 3-4 will be factors. Not sure if he wants to stay in a 3-4 though.

 

I would think he'd want to stay in a 3-4, but he probably wants to penetrate more than he's been allowed to the past couple years. Both the Jags and Falcons run a 4-3, similar to Seattle. 

[CR91]

 

[BlueCollarColts]

Is he meeting with another team after Atlanta? Or is he just deciding between Atlanta/Jacksonville/us?

[Nadine]

This man has options.  I'd do the same thing

[BOTT]

23 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Wouldn't take it that far. Justin Smith meets Kyle Williams. The sky's the limit for Anderson. He can be as good as a Justin Smith was.

 

Ridgeway could be the big time breakout guy for us. He's got some monster potential IMO

Justin Smith would be pretty high praise also.  Guy was a game changer once he got to SF.

[CR91]

29 minutes ago, BlueCollarColts said:

Is he meeting with another team after Atlanta? Or is he just deciding between Atlanta/Jacksonville/us?

 

raiders are supposedly interested as well