Will the Colts ever have that NASTY dominant defense?

[bluephantom87]

I for one was stoked when Chuck was hired with visions of aggression and pain for opposing offenses. Chuck fueled the fire with talk of becoming bigger, more physical and being aggressive on defense. For years teams feared the Colts because of Peyton and the offense. (like they do in Denver now) Spread them out no huddle and pick them apart. With the new offensive scheme of a 50/50 ratio run to quick short passes (1 wr downfield on occasion) and a 50/50 split in carries among the rbs balance seems to be in order even though we have a franchise qb and speed receivers. Last I checked Luck was still getting hit but hey our run avg is up. Now on to our defense (got off track with a quick rant) it starts with the players and the scheme. We will never have a feared defense unless we get guys with nasty streaks on the field. Guys who play downfield with bad intentions. Landry fits that mold and we haven't had that since Bob left. Thought we would see more of those type of players via FA especially since our dc tends to run a more passive base 3-4 scheme which didn't sit well in his previous stops. One can only keep dreaming that one day FEAR will be attached to our defense.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

If we wanted to be dat nasty we could have gotten that ravens cb thats on the eagles. Hes probably better than toler, and he has that element. 

[BOTT]

Getting that kind of defense doesn't happen overnight.

[BOTT]

If we wanted to be dat nasty we could have gotten that ravens cb thats on the eagles. Hes probably better than toler, and he has that element.

If you like a CB that gets burnt on a regular basis.

[TKnight24]

In Madden? Yes, I've done it plenty of times back when I use to play Madden

In real life? Eh, remains to be seen.

[BlueShoe]

Getting that kind of defense doesn't happen overnight.

 

Exactly. I remember watching the Ravens in the late 90's, before they became a power house defense, and they made some good plays, but then had relapses. I could tell even then that they had something special brewing though. I do not see that with us, and we will need a few more dynamic players to get there. Landry is dynamic, but we need this at every level of the defense. We do have a good supporting cast though, and we are still young in this defense. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

If you like a CB that gets burnt on a regular basis.

Yeah i haven't seen him since he played on the ravens and was their #1, so that's why i said probably. Is he really bad now lol? To be fair, Toler got burned lots against the fins

[BOTT]

Yeah i haven't seen him since he played on the ravens and was their #1, so that's why i said probably. Is he really bad now lol? To be fair, Toler got burned lots against the fins

He wasn't that good for the ravens. The only reason he was their #1 was due to injuries.

[bap1331]

It will always either be a good offense and decent or bad defense

 

OR

 

A good defense and a bad offense (aka 2000 Baltimore Ravens)

 

So we chose to have a good offense. Now we just need to make a decent defense

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

He wasn't that good for the ravens. The only reason he was their #1 was due to injuries.

I thought he shut down the colts, patriots, and 49ers #1 pretty well. But my memory is hazy past the colts game so im probably wrong.

[Hans Moleman]

Let's face it- I know the coaches may be paranoid about using the "r" word, but in some ways, we're still a rebuilding team. We're not great offensively or defensively yet, although we do have some key pieces in place. It's going to take another year or possibly two to get the personnel to be a legit SB contender in place, and that's if we assume our still unproven coaching staff can get the most out of them and that Grigs makes the right moves. I'm optimistic, but it's no slam dunk just yet. 

 

I still see the trend pointing up as far as our overall talent base goes, but it takes some time to develop and gel. 

[coltsfanatic24]

Not until we get a better d-coordinator, Rex Ryan should be available next year.

[Nobody]

If we wanted to be dat nasty we could have gotten that ravens cb thats on the eagles. Hes probably better than toler, and he has that element.

He is worse and Toler is physical as well.

[Vance]

Not until we get a better d-coordinator, Rex Ryan should be available next year.

 

Yeah but only for 5 minutes. So act fast.

[GoColts8818]

Not until we get a better d-coordinator, Rex Ryan should be available next year.

If the Defense tanks this year I could see that.  Remember Pagano replaced Ryan in Baltimore so I could see Pagano bringing Ryan in to run the D IF we fire Manusky and I don't think that's a sure bet but I wouldn't rule it out. 

[BleedBlu8792]

If the Defense tanks this year I could see that. Remember Pagano replaced Ryan in Baltimore so I could see Pagano bringing Ryan in to run the D IF we fire Manusky and I don't think that's a sure bet but I wouldn't rule it out.

It would be a good way for Rex to get out of the spotlight and clean his slate. I would be all for Rex as the Colts D, but would he want to come back as a DC?

[BlueShoe]

If the Defense tanks this year I could see that.  Remember Pagano replaced Ryan in Baltimore so I could see Pagano bringing Ryan in to run the D IF we fire Manusky and I don't think that's a sure bet but I wouldn't rule it out. 

 

It would be a good way for Rex to get out of the spotlight and clean his slate. I would be all for Rex as the Colts D, but would he want to come back as a DC?

 

This would be a nasty team for sure with a Rex Ryan defense and an offense led by Andrew Luck. 

 

BleedBlue, I think Rex would welcome getting out of the circus.

[Gavin]

Short answer? When we learn what containment means on outside runs and have an ILB in there that can make you pay for running up the middle next to our sideline to sideline ILB

[BlueShoe]

Short answer? When we learn what containment means on outside runs and have an ILB in there that can make you pay for running up the middle next to our sideline to sideline ILB

 

I agree that our main issue is still at LB. We certainly cannot blame our DL, because they are playing very well. We don't have super stars on the DL, but we have well above average players who could start on many teams. Our secondary has some players, especially Landry. I think Vontae gets lost at times and Toler over commits, but both have shown big play ability when they are on their game. Bethea is also getting into the habit of over pursuing and I am not sure why, because he has always been reliable against the run and pass. I believe that our secondary will settle down and gel with a few more experience. I was excited about our LB's but I am no longer sold. Outside of Mathis and Freeman, we haven't had any consistent playmakers from the LB position. Werner is young and learning, but he is still has a long way to go. 

 

At this time I do not believe that we have all of the pieces to become a dominating defense; however, I do believe we have the pieces to be a good defense. We are only a few playmakers away though. 

[Gavin]

I agree that our main issue is still at LB. We certainly cannot blame our DL, because they are playing very well. We don't have super stars on the DL, but we have well above average players who could start on many teams. Our secondary has some players, especially Landry. I think Vontae gets lost at times and Toler over commits, but both have shown big play ability when they are on their game. Bethea is also getting into the habit of over pursuing and I am not sure why, because he has always been reliable against the run and pass. I believe that our secondary will settle down and gel with a few more experience. I was excited about our LB's but I am no longer sold. Outside of Mathis and Freeman, we haven't had any consistent playmakers from the LB position. Werner is young and learning, but he is still has a long way to go. 

 

At this time I do not believe that we have all of the pieces to become a dominating defense; however, I do believe we have the pieces to be a good defense. We are only a few playmakers away though. 

Manusky has to let our Corners do some press coverage though to. Also he has to be more creative on his blitz packages, that td that we gave Wallace was do to our Corners playing 10 yards off from inside the redzone....Thats just to easy for a speedster like Wallace

[NagelHausForge]

I think in today's NFL it is hard to have that old school "Dominant" style defense simply for the fact that the rules have changed and defensive players can no longer lay the wood like they used to.  I think we have the building blocks for a very effective and efficient D but it takes time to get everyone moving in the same and right direction. 

 

It will be interesting to see how the D develops this season and see what kind of offseason moves they make.

 

I am not sold on Manusky as a D Coordinator... but I doubt they fire him after this season... unless the D totally falls apart.

[oldunclemark]

I for one was stoked when Chuck was hired with visions of aggression and pain for opposing offenses. Chuck fueled the fire with talk of becoming bigger, more physical and being aggressive on defense. For years teams feared the Colts because of Peyton and the offense. (like they do in Denver now) Spread them out no huddle and pick them apart. With the new offensive scheme of a 50/50 ratio run to quick short passes (1 wr downfield on occasion) and a 50/50 split in carries among the rbs balance seems to be in order even though we have a franchise qb and speed receivers. Last I checked Luck was still getting hit but hey our run avg is up. Now on to our defense (got off track with a quick rant) it starts with the players and the scheme. We will never have a feared defense unless we get guys with nasty streaks on the field. Guys who play downfield with bad intentions. Landry fits that mold and we haven't had that since Bob left. Thought we would see more of those type of players via FA especially since our dc tends to run a more passive base 3-4 scheme which didn't sit well in his previous stops. One can only keep dreaming that one day FEAR will be attached to our defense.

We dont have the defensive line talent to have a great defense..

 

In the first two weeks (forget the 5 sacks Sunday), a close look at the first two games indicates  we have not stopped either QB.

We cant get to him when we need to and we have given up key yardage..

I think our defensive perimiter is strong but, after 2 weeks...our line seems slow and lacks the push up the middle.

 

But its only been 2 weeks

[jameszeigler834]

Toler is a good Corner don't get me wrong but he still has some learning to do on his technique maybe since he has gotten burned at least once in both of the first two games.

[chrisfarley]

Answer: NO

Never really been on our radar for some reason.  Steelers yes, us, no way. 

[Carl Dzienkiewicz]

yes if you bring back curtis,dutton,hand sanders etc......

[Smonroe]

You don't need a dominant D. You need an average D, which we have.

You need a dominant O to win in this league. Pass first, run as a compliment.

[Kyle]

dominate defenses have people who can make plays when nothing is there.  we have no one in our front 7 that can get pressure without us sending more guys than they have blocking.  we need a OLB who can just straight up win on the outside, a DLmen who can beat a double team and blow up a run, and a MLB who can get through the line clean on a blitz, and a MLB who can cover a TE/RB.  

 

We have a few pieces in place for our monster D but many more holes:

 

DE

DE  

DT 

 

OLB

MLB

MLB Freeman

OLB  Werner

 

CB  Davis

CB  Toller

 

FS

SS  Landry

[Dudley Smith]

If the Defense tanks this year I could see that.  Remember Pagano replaced Ryan in Baltimore so I could see Pagano bringing Ryan in to run the D IF we fire Manusky and I don't think that's a sure bet but I wouldn't rule it out. 

 

It would take an epic collapse on defense this season for Manusky to be let go after Year 2. I don't see it happening unless the Colts just get lit up and/or have defensive breakdowns in the majority of their games this season (like the 1st half of the Phins game). Even if Manusky is let go, not sure how crazy I would be about Rex Ryan being on our sideline in any capacity.

 

Edit: Not to mention-- our head coach's specialty is supposed to be defense. If he can't work with Manusky and fix this without having to hire outside help I would be concerned.

[OffensivelyPC]

It's going to take time.  This thread is at least a year pre-mature.  You don't build a stout defense overnight.  It takes a couple of years.  Seattle's D took about 3-4 years really.  Most their players were picked up in offseason before the 2009-2012 seasons.  They hit on most draft picks and made some pickups in FA that turned out well for them.  Make no mistake about it, there's little room for error, but the Colts CAN have that nasty D.  We really didn't start building our defense until this past offseasons (the 2012 offseason was mostly spent on offense).  So be hopeful, but just don't expect it this year and probably next year. 

[jbaron04]

we are in yr two of going from a cover to 3-4 def its take time to draft and get all the player u need for this def we need corners a pass rusher etc... werner is a rookie so he could develop into this pass rusher but it takes time to get all the pieces u need the teams with the best def in the league were bottom dwellers for yrs before they finally put it together 

[jvan1973]

nope, never. If it hasn't happened in 18 games, it will never happen.

[The Old Crow]

I think the Colts have been blessed with two #1 quarterbacks who have done well , and one has already commanded big money , and the other one will soon. As many of you have pointed out with the Flacco contract, when you are paying big money for one position , something has to give. With the Colts , they have had to scrimp on defense , while the Ravens historically , besides Flacco, have had horrible quarterbacks , and had plenty of money for defense.

Many teams are now in this same situation with high paid quarterbacks , and it is imperative the GM's like Grigson get the right player at the right price. Too many free agent or draft misses can kill you.

[mvbighead]

It will always either be a good offense and decent or bad defense

 

OR

 

A good defense and a bad offense (aka 2000 Baltimore Ravens)

 

So we chose to have a good offense. Now we just need to make a decent defense

 

Wrong.

 

We did not chose to have a good offense just because we drafted Luck.  The dynasty years of the Patriots were lead by a great QB with reasonably good weapons, and a very good defense.  They were a tough match on either side of the ball.

 

The Colts are still trying to build, but they are equally chasing talents on both sides of the ball.  Donald Thomas, DHB, Bradshaw, and Cherilus on offense; Landry, RJF, Walden, Franklin, Werner, etc. on defense.  

 

All in all, this team is trying to create a solid force on both sides.  It remains to be seen whether all of their acquisitions will pan out, but it most definitely can be good or great on both sides of the ball.  It won't last long due to contract demands and what not, but there can always be a window of opportunity.

[chad72]

Not until we get a better d-coordinator, Rex Ryan should be available next year.

 

Yep. Besides, Pagano replaced Rex Ryan as DC and worked with him on the Ravens' staff, right?

 

I do think we need a playmaker at free safety. Bethea has lost a step and Landry is more suited to SS than FS. Landy is not Ed Reed, we need that playmaker that is a ballhawk at safety to make plays.

 

Plus, we need LBs that can cover. We need some mixing and matching of size and speed. With Dungy, it was all speed. With Pagano, it seems to be more size than speed. We need a good combination with coverage LBs with speed.

 

One can live with an opportunistic defense with coverage LBs and ballhawking safeties if they make just enough plays to win the game. But we cannot continue to win too many games scoring 20 points, bottom line. We need to get up in the 25-30 range, period, to keep up with the elite Os.

[atapcl]

dominate defenses have people who can make plays when nothing is there.  we have no one in our front 7 that can get pressure without us sending more guys than they have blocking.  we need a OLB who can just straight up win on the outside, a DLmen who can beat a double team and blow up a run, and a MLB who can get through the line clean on a blitz, and a MLB who can cover a TE/RB.  

 

We have a few pieces in place for our monster D but many more holes:

 

DE Francois/Redding

DE  

DT Chapman

 

OLB Mathis

MLB

MLB Freeman

OLB  Werner

 

CB  Davis

CB  Toller

 

FS Bethea

SS  Landry

IMO just 2 players short. We need that dominant ILB you mentioned and a dominant DT like Ngata to take on double teams. The secondary will get better. It seems like a lot of confusion on defense leading to breakdowns. Bethea and Landry both play FS and SS and that could lead to some confusion.

[The Old Crow]

I think what everyone is striving for is balance ,vis a vis, the salary cap, and getting the right player at the right price. Pittsburgh is falling apart much like the Ravens did in the early 2000's by hanging onto aging stars too long.

I really think the Colts would have had a few down years in there but Peyton Manning is so dominant, he could literally mask so so defenses and poor drafts. You saw the results when he was out and they went 2-14.

Irsay spent a ton of money all in one year on free agents. He could have gotten a few more one year stop gap guys and saved a bit more for next year. It's still way too early to say how the Colts free agent class has turned out, but we all know Irsay has high expectations and is showing little patience for losing or perceived incompetence.

[lollygagger8]

It would be a good way for Rex to get out of the spotlight and clean his slate. I would be all for Rex as the Colts D, but would he want to come back as a DC?

Why not? Del Rio went from head coach of Jags to DC for the Broncos.

 

Plus Norv left San Diego head coach to be OC of Browns.

[Nostrils]

I think our D is better than people give them credit for.

It will come together

[Nostrils]

I think our D is better than people give them credit for.

It will come together in these next few weeks

[funktacious2]

I still pretty sold on the potential of of secondary, and I come places on our front 7 seem pretty good too, but I feel the place that needs a more dynamic player than anywhere else is at ILB. We see Freeman, Connor, Shephard and Angerer make some big plays here and there, but they don't have the presence that they should be feared. I feel like when you look at the best defenses in the league they all have at least some feared linebacker.

 

On the the positive side, I don't know how anyone can't see the progress we've made. It's not a huge jump, but just 2 years out from completely switching defensive schemes, asking guys who've never played 3-4 to jump right in and make it work, we're really starting to take shape. This offseason alone saw us add TON of players who better fit our scheme. Give it a few more years as players settle in and we continue to improve our personnel. Lastly, I've got to respect the challenge Grigson has had to deal with. Taking a 2-14 team changing their defensive scheme so that he had to gut much of the team, find replacements with limited cap space, all while also trying to give his new, young franchise QB weapons to help him grow. I've been astounded how much the team has changed in just 2 seasons, and I feel much better about just about every position than I did 2 years ago.