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Joe Philbin - New Colts OC?

rockywoj

By rockywoj
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rockywoj Team Captain

rockywoj

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If the Colts continue to struggle mightily on offense, resulting in the canning of Pep Hamilton, how would Joe Philbin measure up as a prospective replacement offensive coordinator?

 

I recall he did an outstanding job in Green Bay, which is why he got a head coaching gig to begin with.  Could he be the man to work magic with Luck and all the Colts' offensive weaponry?

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Malakai432 Practice Squad

Malakai432

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I was listening to Rick Venturi and he stated Colts are transitioning their offense to more of a semi west coast offense.  I don't think bringing in a new OC will help at this time and probably only make things worse.  It seems like adjustments are being made, we'll have to see how Luck works out in a more quick paced offense.

 

We saw this in the 4th quarter vs the Titans and against the Jags.  Gotta give it a bit more time.

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Coltsman1788 Team Captain

Coltsman1788

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Say what you will about Pep but the man isn't afraid to adjust course when the offense isn't working.  He did it last year and we finished in the Top 5.  He is attempting to do it again. Sunday was a good example of what the Colts should be doing offensively...now let's see how it looks with Luck behind center.  .Hopefully Andrew can execute the short passing game and minimize the sacks & INTs as well as Hasselbeck did.

 

As far as Philbin goes...his team stopped playing for him. Miami hasn't been exactly lighting it up on offense either.    Dolphin players were pointing at his play calling as the root of their struggles. Why would you want him? He'd likely just become the newest whipping boy around here given enough time.

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scooter4910 Walk On

scooter4910

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I was listening to Rick Venturi and he stated Colts are transitioning their offense to more of a semi west coast offense.  I don't think bringing in a new OC will help at this time and probably only make things worse.  It seems like adjustments are being made, we'll have to see how Luck works out in a more quick paced offense.

 

We saw this in the 4th quarter vs the Titans and against the Jags.  Gotta give it a bit more time.

How long will this transition take....4-6 years? Just wondering.

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Jdubu Practice Squad

Jdubu

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No, his play calling has been fair. Just lack of execution (drops, fumbles, bad throws) is what makes Pep look bad.

You say he adjusts but IMO, he lacks creativity to get his receivers open more and getting mismatches. That's what I see and one reason why I'd be fine seeing him replaced. No the question is with who?
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MTC Practice Squad

MTC

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You say he adjusts but IMO, he lacks creativity to get his receivers open more and getting mismatches. That's what I see and one reason why I'd be fine seeing him replaced. No the question is with who?

 

AJ is too slow to get open. Moncrief, TY, and Fleener had no problem getting open. They ran nice routes.

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BOTT Walk On

BOTT

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I was listening to Rick Venturi and he stated Colts are transitioning their offense to more of a semi west coast offense.  I don't think bringing in a new OC will help at this time and probably only make things worse.  It seems like adjustments are being made, we'll have to see how Luck works out in a more quick paced offense.

 

We saw this in the 4th quarter vs the Titans and against the Jags.  Gotta give it a bit more time.

We have seen the short passing game before....last year in the playoffs for example. Then they get away from it. Why? I have no idea.

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GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE Walk On

GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE

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AJ is too slow to get open. Moncrief, TY, and Fleener had no problem getting open. They ran nice routes.

that's it, getting open in the NFL is not about speed as much as it is about Good crisp routes.. reggie wasn't the fastest by a long shot but he stayed open.. AJ has been decent on routes which is why you see Cbs jumping the ball easily against him
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Malakai432 Practice Squad

Malakai432

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We have seen the short passing game before....last year in the playoffs for example. Then they get away from it. Why? I have no idea.

Yeah, I think they will keep with it this time. I think they're starting to realize that the OL cannot contain long enough for these 5-7 step drop backs, longer routes ect to develop. They've been in transition for the last 5 quarters so hopefully it stays for good. We'll see if it remains to be the same w the Texans. I'd imagine it will have to be against their DL, lol. Venturi seems to think they will just flat out transition to a west coast offense. He said he hasn't seen a team run so many vertical, down field routes since the 68 Raiders, lol.

I have nothing wrong with the deep plays, just a problem with running them 8 out of 10 times.

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BOTT Walk On

BOTT

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Yeah, I think they will keep with it this time. I think they're starting to realize that the OL cannot contain long enough for these 5-7 step drop backs, longer routes ect to develop. They've been in transition for the last 5 quarters so hopefully it stays for good. We'll see if it remains to be the same w the Texans. I'd imagine it will have to be against their DL, lol. Venturi seems to think they will just flat out transition to a west coast offense. He said he hasn't seen a team run so many vertical, down field routes since the 68 Raiders, lol.

I have nothing wrong with the deep plays, just a problem with running them 8 out of 10 times.

My problem is they should have known this when Luck was drafted, but they hired the mad bomber, Bruce Arians.

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Steamboat_Shaun Walk On

Steamboat_Shaun

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No, his play calling has been fair. Just lack of execution (drops, fumbles, bad throws) is what makes Pep look bad.

Pep has definitely had some head scratchers over the course of the first few games, but I agree with what you're saying. So many big plays negated by holding penalties, fumbles, and drops. It's also easy to underestimate having all these new faces and the impact that has on the overall rhythm of the offense.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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I have nothing wrong with the deep plays, just a problem with running them 8 out of 10 times.

 

The QB is throwing the ball, not the OC. Luck has missed a lot of underneath opportunities. And then there have been obvious blitz situations and third downs where all receivers go vertical and no one comes across the middle of the field. It's not all Luck, and it's not all Pep. 

 

However, the lack of play action, the fact that our offense so far looks nothing like our playoff offense and preseason offense, the overly complicated blocking schemes, and the misuse of personnel all fall on Pep. That we're talking about this simple stuff in Year 3 of his tenure makes me think there's little hope for him.

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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

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Pep doesn't suck.

 

And anyone who says that he does doesn't really know what sucking is all about.

 

And let's not forget that I'm the one who called for Pep to be fired after the Monday night loss to the Jets.

 

Pep is roughly average.     I called for him to be fired because I think he is partly responsible for Luck's terrible play and I don't have confidence that he can get him out of this funk.

 

But Pep has done some pretty good work here that many seem to have forgotten.    Once the mob mentality sets in,  many here seem to lose all perspective.

 

Coaches, players,  front office......    they either "SUCK!" or they're good.     People don't seem to understand that there's a whole range of ability in between those two points.     And that's where Pep lives.     I think the Colts need better than what Pep brings.   But that doesn't mean he sucks.

 

Yes, I said it,  and yes,  I mean it.

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Malakai432 Practice Squad

Malakai432

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The QB is throwing the ball, not the OC. Luck has missed a lot of underneath opportunities. And then there have been obvious blitz situations and third downs where all receivers go vertical and no one comes across the middle of the field. It's not all Luck, and it's not all Pep. 

 

However, the lack of play action, the fact that our offense so far looks nothing like our playoff offense and preseason offense, the overly complicated blocking schemes, and the misuse of personnel all fall on Pep. That we're talking about this simple stuff in Year 3 of his tenure makes me think there's little hope for him.

 

Ohhh yeah I definitely agree it's a culmination of factors.  I remember specifically during the Titans game where Luck went deep to TY when he could've easily hit Frank Gore wide open in the flat which could've turned into a possible TD or a 20+ yard play. 

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ColtsFanMikeC Walk On

ColtsFanMikeC

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He sucks. That's why everybody hates him.

 

To be fair -- our OL sucks, and it has since Pep has been here.  Luck also tends to hold on to the ball too long, which probably exacerbates the problem.  We have weapons and speed to run deep routes, the problem is deep routes often take time to develop and we don't always have that time.  Like Superman says, part of the problem is on Pep for allowing so many deep routes to be called (or even options) with the line we have.  Part of the problem is on Luck, as I believe he has ability to audible at the line and he may very well be the one checking into the deep routes, and is the one missing reads or failing to go through progressions or holding onto the ball too long.  Part of the problem is on Grigson for failing to address our OL -- we have had multiple plays that were successful be called back already this year because of holding penalties committed by the OL and we've had multiple deeper plays that may have developed just fine if Luck had another 2 seconds.  We've also, as MTC says, had players make critical mistakes.

 

No, his play calling has been fair. Just lack of execution (drops, fumbles, bad throws) is what makes Pep look bad.

 

I agree with you here, though I'm a little skeptical about some play calling that's occurred with this team.  I do believe Luck has multiple options when he goes to the line and he is given freedom to pick the option he sees fit, so some of the play calling should fall on his shoulders.  If you go through this season alone -- we have left a lot of points on the field through 3 games instead of putting them on the board.  Frank Gore has fumbled 2x inside the redzone, leaving 14 points on the field.  Vinatieri has missed 2 FGs (one of them a 29 yarder), leaving 6 more points on the field.  Luck has thrown 7 INTs and has fumbled once through 3 games (8 turnovers in 3 games is not acceptable for a 'star' QB, or any QB) -- several of which were on him, IMO, more than Pep.  At least one of these, the underthrown ball to TY, would have landed us in the redzone if it was thrown better, so that should be at least 3 more points.  One of Luck's interceptions came after a 37 yard pass completion that would have landed us on TEN's 25 yard line was called back, so I'll blame Hugh Thornton for at least 3 more points.  It is too hard to tell if we could have conducted scoring drives on all of Luck's other turnovers, but when turnovers happen or mistakes happen inside the opposing 30 yard line, I'm considering them at least opportunities where we definitely left at least 3 off the board.  Also, Josh Robinson fumbled last week on a drive where we started on the 50.  We have to be able to get points out of drives when starting in that field position (I think that's the 2nd time this year we've started at mid-field and turned the ball over).

 

So through 4 games, we have left at least 26 points off the board.  Right now, we are ranked 26th in NFL for scoring for with 72 points.  Add 26 to that total and we have 98 -- all the sudden, we jump from 26th in the league to 10th in the league and the world doesn't look so bad.  Let's not forget NYJ has given up a league low amount of points, nobody else is scoring on them either.  Buffalo was thought to be one of the best D's in the league in week 1.  Tennessee is also ranked top 10 in points allowed.  It's not like we've just been playing games vs. terrible defenses.  If we still aren't scoring when we play teams like Houston (26th in terms of points allowed), New Orleans (23rd), Tampa Bay (30th), etc... I'll be more worried.

 

We need to stop the self-inflicted wounds.  Sure, the coaches can be blamed partially for players not executing, but in these situations, I don't think so -- Frank Gore is a possible future HOF running back, there is no way coaches can be blamed for him fumbling in the red zone.  Adam Vinatieri is a future HOF kicker -- there is no way coaches can be blamed for him missing FGs, especially 29 yard gimme shots.  Andrew Luck is our franchise QB, he came into the season with all the expectations that he would be undoubtedly considered an elite QB in this league this year, with lots of speculation that he'd surpass A. Rodgers as the game's best -- there is no reason for him to be making some decisions or making some throws that he has made, if he is truly an elite talent in this league (which I believe he is).

 

The QB is throwing the ball, not the OC. Luck has missed a lot of underneath opportunities. And then there have been obvious blitz situations and third downs where all receivers go vertical and no one comes across the middle of the field. It's not all Luck, and it's not all Pep. 

 

However, the lack of play action, the fact that our offense so far looks nothing like our playoff offense and preseason offense, the overly complicated blocking schemes, and the misuse of personnel all fall on Pep. That we're talking about this simple stuff in Year 3 of his tenure makes me think there's little hope for him.

 

Yes.  I believed going into this year it was going to be the year they took Luck's 'training wheels' off.  I think they came in trying to do that and so far, he hasn't succeeded save the 98 yard drive against TN.  I don't know what it is -- Luck is supposed to be one of the smartest (if not the smartest) players in this league.  He is in his 4th year.  No question he has incredible physical attributes, and I don't think there is any question he has a strong mind (Bruce Arians, who also coached Peyton, even endorsed Andrew for having more mental capacity than Peyton). 

 

Luck, to my knowledge, has freedom to check into his own plays at the line.  He has, in many cases, chosen poor plays to run and in many cases, like you say, made bad decisions or has failed to go through his progressions and remember his check down.  That, to me, is on Luck.  If we're going to let him loose in his 4th year, there is some growing pains to be expected, but it seems like too much for me.  Perhaps it is on Pep or Pagano to be blamed for not harnessing Luck back in, but if they have the faith I think they have in him, they should expect that he wouldn't continuously make the same mistakes.  Maybe they're not doing enough in the film room, which could be on the coaches specifically Pep and Clyde, to have Luck mentally prepared for games or have his mistakes pointed out for him.  I don't know what options Luck has at the line, either, so maybe he is calling plays which are the best available option (assuming the other plays suck), which would be on the coaches -- but I doubt that.

 

In short, the blame for our offensive struggles doesn't just fall on one person.  If Luck continues to make mistakes and bad reads/play calls at the line, the coaches need to quit giving him that ability until he proves he's learned more.  However, that doesn't solve the problem of why he isn't hitting his check down or why he isn't hitting his underneath options.  With the OL we have, some of the deeper plays which take time to develop may need to be nixed from the playbook until we have that problem solved.  Then we also need our players to execute by catching catchable balls, not fumbling, stopping with the stupid penalties, etc... you can't blame the coaches for every mistake that happens on the field, some of it has to be on the players.

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will426 Practice Squad

will426

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Okay to those siding with Pep he does SUCK..we know for a fact that he knows how to call plays and how to get this offense no 1 is saying that he can't..it's the fact that he refuses to adjust until the 4TH QTR then we see all those creative playcalls.. So to me he sucks you see the offense is struggling 1st qtr you adjust second qtr if it's still not working halftime gives you plenty of time to change it up yet we come out in the third doing the same damn thing..him and luck are the same in a way luck doesn't want to give up on a play regardless of the consequences and Pep refuses to change his playcalling regardless of the failure to Succeed

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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 With the OL we have, some of the deeper plays which take time to develop may need to be nixed from the playbook until we have that problem solved.  Then we also need our players to execute by catching catchable balls, not fumbling, stopping with the stupid penalties, etc... you can't blame the coaches for every mistake that happens on the field, some of it has to be on the players.

 

I have no problem with deep options, even every play. The problem is when those plays don't have any hot routes or checkdowns, or when the QB misses them (or any other high percentage openings). That's progression based passing, and Luck is very good at it. He just hasn't been performing well so far this season. I don't see it being an enduring issue.

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