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Robin

CB Pierre Desir Re-signing

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1 minute ago, Valpo2004 said:

We need to bring back Geathers or get Clinton Dix.  

 

With our cap space we should come out of free agency at least as good as last year.  Quite frankly we should come out of free agency better.  

 

If we get a solid or better starter back there, combine that with some value signings or even just standing pat, we've improved the team marginally.  

 

Maybe there is a little bit of incentives in there?  

Yeah, I was thinking the same... we will see soon. 

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32 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

Why does anyone care if some nobody on an anonymous message board likes Pierre Desir, or anyone else?  You think that will impact how Pierre performs on the field one iota?

 

Oh, Dear God!   

 

Because (A) we’re a community.  And (B). Because Superman is not just “anonymous nobody” as you put it. 

 

He is BY FAR the most respected member of our community and it’s nit even close.   By the way, this is not my opinion, thus is objective fact if the number of “likes” has any value or meaning.

 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It’s like why change what isn’t broken. Ballard kept his word. That means a lot to other players on this team.

Yeah, it is nice to see him following through on the plan he talks about.  I am not surprised he resigned, after seeing the grass wouldn't be greener elsewhere.  I think even if the price is a nudge higher than some people want, it is still a better investment beyond just this player.  It means, as I and others have said, that going forward not only our own players, but anyone we might target (like the handful of midlevel guys they are about to sign) will have the same buy in and imagine say 4 more really solid players (Desir may not be the end all, but people have to admit he is solid) and solid players who buy in certainly sounds like the way another team has won a few rings eh? 

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42 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

IF this is correct (??? couldn't find anything on Rapoport's twitter feed) then it's not a bad price. 

 

Yeah, that's between the 3 yr. $21 mil. I guessed and 3 yr. $24 mil. someone else guessed, not bad at all, IMO. 

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I don't dislike him at all. He's a decent corner, I just think he's a little overrated by Colts fans (based on my opinion of him and his role). He's getting a three year deal, I'm just anxious to see the numbers.

 

By the way, I had Desir on my pre-draft list way back when. Nothing against him at all, and for him to go from journeyman fringe roster player to getting a three year deal after a solid season with us is good to see. I just don't think he's the key to locking down DHop like some do.

I'm 100% right here with you Superman. People on this forum only have a short term memory. We're talking about a fourth round pick who couldn't even start for the Browns....THE BROWNS. He was then signed and cut by two other teams. He was an absolute liability in coverage in 2017, and was a liability at some points last year. He's not "under rated" at all, he's just rated.

 

No one wants to admit that he just played well down the stretch last year, and played when it counts (for one year). I was hoping he'd walk, SIMPLY because I knew he had a market, and I'm really high on the CB's in this coming draft. 

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4 minutes ago, Exodus said:

No one wants to admit that he just played well down the stretch last year, and played when it counts (for one year). I was hoping he'd walk, SIMPLY because I knew he had a market, and I'm really high on the CB's in this coming draft. 

I am so glad he did not walk. 

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7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yeah, that's between the 3 yr. $21 mil. I guessed and 3 yr. $24 mil. someone else guessed, not bad at all, IMO. 

 

 

If that report is correct , it's a good deal for both Dersir and the Colts. Some here don't like him as much as others but at this point in time , we need to spend a little... no ?

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58 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Holder said the Colts see him as a 3-4 OLB, so probably not. I agree.

 

You agree with the Colts??

 

He primarily played defensive end in college than OLB. I think he will make a very good bargain signing, IMO, just need to give him a chance to play DE, I feel. Big underrated positive is special teams play too.

 

http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/teams-nfl/afc-west/denver-broncos/2016/09/07/under-the-microscope-shaq-barrett/

 

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6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

You agree with the Colts??

 

He primarily played defensive end in college than OLB. I think he will make a very good bargain signing, IMO, just need to give him a chance to play DE, I feel. Big underrated positive is special teams play too.

 

http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/teams-nfl/afc-west/denver-broncos/2016/09/07/under-the-microscope-shaq-barrett/

 

 

Yeah. I liked Barrett as a target in the old defense, I'm not sure he's a great fit in the new defense. 

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Another important fact to this signing(and those of Glowinski and Hunt) is that it shows potential future free agents that the Colts do reward their own who produce. You know the players see this and could make Indy a very desirable destination for those mid-tiered free agents. 

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19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Oh, Dear God!   

 

Because (A) we’re a community.  And (B). Because Superman is not just “anonymous nobody” as you put it. 

 

He is BY FAR the most respected member of our community and it’s nit even close.   By the way, this is not my opinion, thus is objective fact if the number of “likes” has any value or meaning.

 

 

 

 

That means absolutely zero in the grand scheme of things, unfortunately.  And again, has no impact whatsoever on what will happen on the field.  Pierre gonna do what Pierre does, no matter if some dude nicknamed Superman on the Colts.com internet message board supports his contract or not.

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah. I liked Barrett as a target in the old defense, I'm not sure he's a great fit in the new defense. 

 

I wonder if Ziggy Ansah would pull a Ndamokung Suh from last year and sign a "show me" 1 yr. deal with us. He would definitely be a fit.

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Oh, Dear God!   

 

Because (A) we’re a community.  And (B). Because Superman is not just “anonymous nobody” as you put it. 

 

He is BY FAR the most respected member of our community and it’s nit even close.   By the way, this is not my opinion, thus is objective fact if the number of “likes” has any value or meaning.

 

 

 

I don't disagree with your assessment of Superman's popularity or his knowledge, but if you REALLY think "likes" mean anything, there's a lot of adolescents on FB and Instagram who agree with you.  They act in "hive mind" consensus following which throughout history is destructive to each society engaged in mob rule. 

 

Mob rule doesn't make anyone right.  It only takes 1 correct opinion to defeat the overwhelming majority who believe the wrong thing.  So give Superman his due based on his knowledge.  He isn't "more" right because he has likes nor does it mean his guesses are guaranteed.  I learn all sorts of things from all sorts of people here who get few to no likes.  Anyone brave enough to go against the mob reminds us it may serve us well to entertain alternative views of a given subject and not just wait for orders on high from our celebrity culture.  If recent events in our world haven't proven their fallibility even though they all have plenty of "likes" nothing will wake you up.  Argue the merits of each point from your own viewpoint, high five people who come up with a fresh idea, interesting way to look at something, tried and true methodology that leads to positive results and so on.  But don't jump on something, an idea or a person's opinions, because they have "likes."  There are plenty of very young people in our culture who garner zillions of likes and have no clues. 

 

The same goes for "experts" in all arenas.  Follow the argument, not the person making it.  Giving a like simply means YOU agree with someone in that statement, not that every future thing they say will be correct.  Authoritarians are born that way.  (No, I am not saying anyone here is such a person, but that is how they have ALWAYS been created through history).  A like should be for the person receiving its benefit for a job well done, not a permanent endorsement.  But that's just my opinion.  I don't expect you to like it.  

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1 minute ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

That means absolutely zero in the grand scheme of things, unfortunately.  And again, has no impact whatsoever on what will happen on the field.  Pierre gonna do what Pierre does, no matter if some dude nicknamed Superman on the Colts.com internet message board supports his contract or not.

 

Means "absolutely zero" to whom?       You?      Well, you made that clear.

 

But as a community his opinion carries more weight than others.    Some people here are only more casual fans...   their knowledge is more basic.    They turn to this community to try and make more informed opinions.    Superman is someone who can set the tone and the view of this community by the quality of the arguments that he makes.

 

I get that it makes ZERO difference to Ballard or Desir.     That's the way it supposed to be.    We're just the fans.

 

But if the community is looking for informed input and not just an opinion from just an "anonymous nobody"  then Superman's views are as important as anyone's here,  if not THEE most important.

 

Of course,  you may have a different view and your mileage may vary.....

 

So be it.

 

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1 minute ago, JPFolks said:

I don't disagree with your assessment of Superman's popularity or his knowledge, but if you REALLY think "likes" mean anything, there's a lot of adolescents on FB and Instagram who agree with you.  They act in "hive mind" consensus following which throughout history is destructive to each society engaged in mob rule. 

 

Mob rule doesn't make anyone right.  It only takes 1 correct opinion to defeat the overwhelming majority who believe the wrong thing.  So give Superman his due based on his knowledge.  He isn't "more" right because he has likes nor does it mean his guesses are guaranteed.  I learn all sorts of things from all sorts of people here who get few to no likes.  Anyone brave enough to go against the mob reminds us it may serve us well to entertain alternative views of a given subject and not just wait for orders on high from our celebrity culture.  If recent events in our world haven't proven their fallibility even though they all have plenty of "likes" nothing will wake you up.  Argue the merits of each point from your own viewpoint, high five people who come up with a fresh idea, interesting way to look at something, tried and true methodology that leads to positive results and so on.  But don't jump on something, an idea or a person's opinions, because they have "likes."  There are plenty of very young people in our culture who garner zillions of likes and have no clues. 

 

The same goes for "experts" in all arenas.  Follow the argument, not the person making it.  Giving a like simply means YOU agree with someone in that statement, not that every future thing they say will be correct.  Authoritarians are born that way.  (No, I am not saying anyone here is such a person, but that is how they have ALWAYS been created through history).  A like should be for the person receiving its benefit for a job well done, not a permanent endorsement.  But that's just my opinion.  I don't expect you to like it.  

 

In general, not only do I agree with this argument,  I actually make this argument here and elsewhere in my life in all sorts of situations.     The majority is not right simply because they're the majority.    In the long view of history,  the majority is often proven to be wrong.    

 

But here on this website,  Superman is not tops just because he has the most "likes"...   I believe he's the most important poster because he's one of the few posters who can come to a thread that's already started....    and the OP has started with a bad premise...   and the first 10-15 posters have bought it and fall in line with the OP.    Superman is one of the few posters who can join that thread,  disagree with the OP and take the thread in a 180 degree different direction and suddenly those who join the conversation are now agreeing with Superman and disagreeing with the OP's position. 

 

The first group wasn't overthrown by a mob.    The first group was shown the error of their ways by a better argument and conceded the point.     Superman can change the discussion by making good arguments.    There are other posters who can do this,   but not a lot.    And no one does this as often and as persuasively as Superman,  IMO.

 

Superman also has more knowledge about more areas that we discuss over the course of the 12 months than most posters.   He can talk football in great details.   He can discuss all aspects of Free Agency, including player evaluations and, salary cap,  market value, and so on.    He can discuss the draft in all aspects.    There is no area where he can't make a topic of discussion more interesting.

 

Doesn't mean he's right all the time.   And I've knocked heads in disagreement with him plenty of times.    But on balance,  he's the most important poster,  and the rest of us are good and important in our own way....   but Superman is in a league of his own.

 

Full Disclosure:   Superman is a personal friend of mine.   We've met several times.   And I can promise you he will NOT be happy with my post here.   I made it on my own accord in response to another poster.    These are my views only,  not his.    He'll be a little annoyed at me for writing this.     Oh well...   another poster I've * off!     :thmup:

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36 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

That means absolutely zero in the grand scheme of things, unfortunately.  And again, has no impact whatsoever on what will happen on the field.  Pierre gonna do what Pierre does, no matter if some dude nicknamed Superman on the Colts.com internet message board supports his contract or not.

 

Obviously. Just like Pierre gonna do what Pierre does based on your take that it doesn't matter what folks think about it on the message board. The vast majority of members understand they have no direct impact on anything related to Colts operations/players. 

 

I'm failing to really understand your point - the purpose of a message board is to discuss team happenings from the fan perspective, including opinions on players, front office, ownership, etc. Are you suggesting that the board should have a different purpose? Perhaps we should all just post who cares about all Colts news since we have no impact on the field or organizational decision-making? 

 

 

 

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I think the number is high and was hopeful it would be closer to the 5mil/yr mark but after seeing many of these other ridiculous, I’m mean stupid ridiculous money contracts given, giving a known quantity player a guaranteed 12 million, 3 year contract in this environment, doesn’t sound so out of the mainstream anymore. Sometimes you pay for the talent, the person, the need and the fit. All of these items are involved in CB making this signing of this player, and more players in the mold of this type player imho. My only question mark here is how much is Inman looking to cash in on because he too fits the same mold. Because of age and him just making due of his talent for our team in just a half season, his number shouldn’t be where Fuenchess is, more in line with Desir type of contract if the team viewed him appropriately. Idk, guess we will see where the Inman gamble comes out. I’d like to see Inman back and I’m happy we have Desir back too. It will be interesting to see the breakdown of this contract. 

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1 hour ago, Exodus said:

I'm 100% right here with you Superman. People on this forum only have a short term memory. We're talking about a fourth round pick who couldn't even start for the Browns....THE BROWNS. He was then signed and cut by two other teams. He was an absolute liability in coverage in 2017, and was a liability at some points last year. He's not "under rated" at all, he's just rated.

 

No one wants to admit that he just played well down the stretch last year, and played when it counts (for one year). I was hoping he'd walk, SIMPLY because I knew he had a market, and I'm really high on the CB's in this coming draft. 

 

A different way of viewing this could be, it took him a while to settle into his role (much like the entire team, going 1-5) but then he became better as his understanding of the defense and his role grew. 

 

From that perspective, Desir could perform at the level all season this year, and potentially even continue to grow.

 

It all just depends on how you look at it. Did he just "get lucky" and only played when it mattered? Or did he just get better as the season went along and he got more comfortable in our defense? 

 

I choose to believe the latter.

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Maybe the colts system fit him better then the browns. I think ballard is a good judge of character and would not of brought him back if he thought he only played well when we were winning.

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51 minutes ago, Larry Horseman said:

 

Obviously. Just like Pierre gonna do what Pierre does based on your take that it doesn't matter what folks think about it on the message board. The vast majority of members understand they have no direct impact on anything related to Colts operations/players. 

 

I'm failing to really understand your point - the purpose of a message board is to discuss team happenings from the fan perspective, including opinions on players, front office, ownership, etc. Are you suggesting that the board should have a different purpose? Perhaps we should all just post who cares about all Colts news since we have no impact on the field or organizational decision-making? 

 

 

 

 

I'm suggesting that if your instinct is "Gee, I wonder what Superman on the Colts message board I post on thinks of this contract.  I hope he approves so I can be optimistic about this free agent signing/draft pick", then you need to re-examine your life and learn to think for yourself.

 

If you like a pick or signing, then like it.  Don't subtly seek out others approval with passive-aggressive commentary.

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      I was hoping they would re-sign him. Getting a pas rush will help, not only him but the secondary as a whole. I like our secondary. Wouldn’t mind seeing talent added but I don’t think they are a weakness.

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9 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

I'm suggesting that if your instinct is "Gee, I wonder what Superman on the Colts message board I post on thinks of this contract.  I hope he approves so I can be optimistic about this free agent signing/draft pick", then you need to re-examine your life and learn to think for yourself.

 

If you like a pick or signing, then like it.  Don't subtly seek out others approval with passive-aggressive commentary.

Well, that is much different than Pierre's gonna do what Pierre does regardless of xyz. I'm not going to go down this silly rabbit hole with you. If you have an ax to grind then grind it I suppose but to me, as a casual observer, it reads like you are intentionally trying to make something an issue that really isn't...

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29 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

I'm suggesting that if your instinct is "Gee, I wonder what Superman on the Colts message board I post on thinks of this contract.  I hope he approves so I can be optimistic about this free agent signing/draft pick", then you need to re-examine your life and learn to think for yourself.

 

If you like a pick or signing, then like it.  Don't subtly seek out others approval with passive-aggressive commentary.

 

Look...   you’re going to disagree with me and Larry Horseman and others...  fine.   That’s your opinion.

 

But now you’re coming across like you’re looking for a fight just to fight.   I’d punt and try a new set of downs.  But maybe that’s just me?

 

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37 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Look...   you’re going to disagree with me and Larry Horseman and others...  fine.   That’s your opinion.

 

But now you’re coming across like you’re looking for a fight just to fight.   I’d punt and try a new set of downs.  But maybe that’s just me?

 

Ultimately it doesn't really matter who among us like the moves or hate the moves.    Chris Ballard is going with his play book.     I know Supes doesn't care the funchess contract or isn't that impressed with Desir.    He has his opinion,   which is almost always,  informed.    This time of year I don't get worked up by who we signed or didn't.     Let the GM do his thing and we all hope for the best. 

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4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

If it's three years, $30m like stitches predicts, I'm with you. If it's 3/18-ish, I'm fine with it.

I'd be surprised if it's 10M. Ballard sets a value, I don't see it at 3/30.  3/21-24 feels right to me.

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3 hours ago, shastamasta said:

The contract is fine. I like Ballard's approach here...let them test the market and see what's what. Pretty likely he didn't find his market to be as high as others. 

 

And surprised about the $12M in gtd money though. Not a lot relative to other players...but it's more than Ballard has given anybody outside of Sheard.

 

 And i don't need to wait for spotrac to guarantee you it is NOT all fully guaranteed.
 Or maybe it is. But i would bet there is a roster bonus due next March. And we can cut him and not pay it.

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4 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

IF this is correct (??? couldn't find anything on Rapoport's twitter feed) then it's not a bad price. 

I take that deal all day long!  Good job on this CB and I think we still hunt a corner early in the draft!  So far so good!

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2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

In general, not only do I agree with this argument,  I actually make this argument here and elsewhere in my life in all sorts of situations.     The majority is not right simply because they're the majority.    In the long view of history,  the majority is often proven to be wrong.    

 

But here on this website,  Superman is not tops just because he has the most "likes"...   I believe he's the most important poster because he's one of the few posters who can come to a thread that's already started....    and the OP has started with a bad premise...   and the first 10-15 posters have bought it and fall in line with the OP.    Superman is one of the few posters who can join that thread,  disagree with the OP and take the thread in a 180 degree different direction and suddenly those who join the conversation are now agreeing with Superman and disagreeing with the OP's position. 

 

The first group wasn't overthrown by a mob.    The first group was shown the error of their ways by a better argument and conceded the point.     Superman can change the discussion by making good arguments.    There are other posters who can do this,   but not a lot.    And no one does this as often and as persuasively as Superman,  IMO.

 

Superman also has more knowledge about more areas that we discuss over the course of the 12 months than most posters.   He can talk football in great details.   He can discuss all aspects of Free Agency, including player evaluations and, salary cap,  market value, and so on.    He can discuss the draft in all aspects.    There is no area where he can't make a topic of discussion more interesting.

 

Doesn't mean he's right all the time.   And I've knocked heads in disagreement with him plenty of times.    But on balance,  he's the most important poster,  and the rest of us are good and important in our own way....   but Superman is in a league of his own.

 

Full Disclosure:   Superman is a personal friend of mine.   We've met several times.   And I can promise you he will NOT be happy with my post here.   I made it on my own accord in response to another poster.    These are my views only,  not his.    He'll be a little annoyed at me for writing this.     Oh well...   another poster I've * off!     :thmup:

Good Stuff!

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3 hours ago, Exodus said:

I'm 100% right here with you Superman. People on this forum only have a short term memory. We're talking about a fourth round pick who couldn't even start for the Browns....THE BROWNS. He was then signed and cut by two other teams. He was an absolute liability in coverage in 2017, and was a liability at some points last year. He's not "under rated" at all, he's just rated.

 

No one wants to admit that he just played well down the stretch last year, and played when it counts (for one year). I was hoping he'd walk, SIMPLY because I knew he had a market, and I'm really high on the CB's in this coming draft. 

First thing, how he played with the Browns and his draft position matter absolutely 0% to his current value to this team at this time.  By re-signing Desire Ballard allows himself increased draft flexibility, it's similar to the Funchess deal, he's positioning his draft flexibility while at the same time fulfilling a cultural proposition that states "we take care of our own in Indy." That makes his word matter and position Indy as a destination of choice, so re-signing Glow, Desir, Hunt are all very good for the team.  Now, to your concern, this in no way precludes us from drafting a CB or a WR in the first three rounds, in fact, it allows us to move up and down the board and jump on opportunities without being oppressed by 'position of need' which is a perfect draft position.  

 

This entire process isn't nearly as linear as it appears.  Getting hyped up about big names in FA is the same mistake many posters made during last years draft when we picked a Guard early or guys nobody heard of or no-name school players and completely flipped out.  This a sophisticated game of positioning and I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone do it as well as Ballard.  

 

So, think beyond the obvious nature of the move, look around the corners and I think at the end of the entire process I bet you like what you see.  Go Colts!

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3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Ultimately it doesn't really matter who among us like the moves or hate the moves.    Chris Ballard is going with his play book.     I know Supes doesn't care the funchess contract or isn't that impressed with Desir.    He has his opinion,   which is almost always,  informed.    This time of year I don't get worked up by who we signed or didn't.     Let the GM do his thing and we all hope for the best. 

Pretty much sums It up.

It is entertaining to read what some fans can come up with though.

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Great signing.  I actually think he is underrated.  Physical and loves to tackle.  Good coverage skills.  Not an All Pro, but you can't have one at each position no matter what fans may hope.  I would have kept him over most of the other FA cbs out there. 

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17 hours ago, stitches said:

Contract details:

 

 

I'm guessing he went out and got some bids and then decided to stay with the Colts.

That looks like a good deal for both sides

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