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Serious Question Regarding Ballard.

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If we learned anything from today it's that Chris Ballard is as stubborn as they come and he doesn't give in to other peoples demands. But after the dust settled I started to sit and ponder if this is something that could eventually hurt Ballard and the Colts chances of landing future free agents. We all know free agency works and it can easily make or break a team rather quickly. Is anyone else on here worried that if Chris Ballard continues to bring guys in here and one by one they continue to walk and sign elsewhere that eventually both agents and players won't even bother coming to Indianapolis because of Ballard?

 

Also, Ballard didn't push the envelope with a few offensive linemen who visited the Colts this week.  He brought in good players who fill our biggest need right now and that is to protect Andrew Luck. You have the money but you stick to your guns and allow them all to walk but the last offseason he signed Hankins to a three year $30 million dollars deal? Hankins is a solid player but he wasn't anything to brag about. So does he value the defensive lineman more than the offensive? I dunno. I have no idea but I sincerely hope this guy can make enough positive changes to make me feel at least a little bit better sending Luck back on the field next season.

 

Would love to hear what some of you think about all of this as maybe someone can shed a little light on what Ballard's logic is.

 

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Feel bad for Reich tbh could only imagine how he feels about some of our only decent to good players walking out the door

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It's really hard to understand Ballard's plan. I'm not really mad about how free agency has went so far but I am surprised and just a tad upset. The Colts were in some really close games last year with "horrible coaching" I thought they could have had a playoff chance (not SB) with the right upgrades and Andrew Luck back. 

 

 

Im sure Chris Ballard has a plan but it does seem that the team has taken a step back and even lost some decent talent. It's obvious Ballard sees the Colts as a complete rebuild. Which the fans should understand. It's also hard to watch the rest of the AFC South continue to improve and spend money on productive FA.

 

Now on Andrew Luck. It would be awesome to watch him behind an offensive line and have available weapons on offense. He has had to carry so much pressure on him to win games practically by himself it is frustrating to see. If Andrew is healthy he should have plenty of years left on him and hopefully Ballard is bringing this Colts team in the right direction.

 

 

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If Ballard was a baseball player, his most dominant trait would be "Whiff!!!!".

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48 minutes ago, DarkSuperman said:

 

Also, Ballard didn't push the envelope with a few offensive linemen who visited the Colts this week.  He brought in good players who fill our biggest need right now and that is to protect Andrew Luck. You have the money but you stick to your guns and allow them all to walk but the last offseason he signed Hankins to a three year $30 million dollars deal?

 

I would have over spent to protect #12. 9/10 its all about the money with players. IMO Ballard could have over spent on 1-2 of the top O linemen and still been sitting well with the salary cap. He could have focused on the defense going forward into the draft. 

 

Nobody will never know why Norwell, Pugh and Jenson didn't sign with the Colts, so you have to believe they asked for more than Ballard wanted to pay. Like I said, I would have done what is necessary to protect Luck. If the Oline continues to be a mess into this season I blame Ballard.

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The fact that no offensive lineman have been signed(especially now that most of the good ones are gone) is very alarming. I like Chris Ballard but this has been a very disappointing off season. The Texans,Titans and jags have all gotten better. We have gotten worse

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To me, it’s very alarming he hasn’t been signing players, or at least one big one. It actually extremely frustrating to see the others in our division do it and we don’t considering we are now the worst team in the South. 

 

The only comfort I get is that Ballard MUST have some kind of plan. No way we don’t sign Tryann Mathieu for 7.5 mil unless Ballard has some plan for the long term future. 

 

Its just odd to see someone gamble so much on their draft picks. If he has a bad draft, or players don’t work out, he will be fired. I pray Ballard’s strategy works. 

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21 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

To me, it’s very alarming he hasn’t been signing players, or at least one big one. It actually extremely frustrating to see the others in our division do it and we don’t considering we are now the worst team in the South. 

 

The only comfort I get is that Ballard MUST have some kind of plan. No way we don’t sign Tryann Mathieu for 7.5 mil unless Ballard has some plan for the long term future. 

 

Its just odd to see someone gamble so much on their draft picks. If he has a bad draft, or players don’t work out, he will be fired. I pray Ballard’s strategy works. 

Irsay is not going to fire Ballard no matter what is done in this up coming draft. With a whole new coaching staff it's just not going to happen.

Irsay, like the rest of us are just going to wait it out. 

Making 25 threads of over reactions is not going to change anything.

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Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Irsay is not going to fire Ballard no matter what is done in this up coming draft. With a whole new coaching staff it's just not going to happen.

Irsay, like the rest of us are just going to wait it out. 

Making 25 threads of over reactions is not going to change anything.

I didn’t only say “well, Ballard’s getting fired”. I supported my statement. Ballard clearly wants cap rollover and draft players, not FA players. And if those draft players fail? He will be fired. Not this year, or the next 2 years, but in the more distant future. 

 

This years strategy appears to be a plan to trade back a bit and take Nelson. I assume the phone calls Ballard received has influenced some of his decision making up to this point, that goes undetected and overlooked. 

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7 hours ago, DarkSuperman said:

Hankins is a solid player but he wasn't anything to brag about. So does he value the defensive lineman more than the offensive? I dunno. I have no idea but I sincerely hope this guy can make enough positive changes to make me feel at least a little bit better sending Luck back on the field next season.

 

Hankins (and Al Woods) finished amongst the top 15-20 of defensive interior linemen (3-4 and 4-3 combined). That scratching the "elite" bracket. The guy, who was "something to brag about" last year was for example Dontari Poe. He finished outside of the top 40 last year. Or Sheldon Richardson who finished at 35. Or Bandon Williams, who finished just outside of the top 20.

 

So, do we talk about marketing value, madden rating, or actual performance? Because if we talk about performance, then Hankins was definitely "something to brag about". Even Al Woods was "something to brag about" (he was also a top20 interior lineman, hand in hand with Hankins). Both guyes had better/similar seasons than Poe, Richardson, Williams had.

 

Not to mention Jabaal Sheard, who also wasn't anything to brag about. He wasn't even a starter any more in Boston. Then he came to Indy and became the 3rd best 3-4 OLB according to PFF. If he was a free agent now, he could look for a 18-20M/year figure, considering where the market is right now.

 

He brought in Barkevious Mingo, an utter bust, who played serviceably replacing John Simon. Now, Seattle gave Mingo 2 years 11M deal.

 

I don't know how good Ballard is finding offensive talents (we haven't seen much of it, Mack and Aiken, that's not mind blowing, but maybe a too small sample size. He did fine job in Kansas though - if it was indeed him). But I am positive he has very good eyes to find defensive talents.

 

We will see how he handles offense, because he will have to start improving that side of the ball sooner than later.

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Im not all that upset, to be honest, i believe we have the talent, i have been saying it for a long time, our scheme is what has been killing the colts. Both offense and defense, we were beating ourselves.

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Ballard has said the goal has been to build for sustained success. Who are the 2 teams with probably the most sustained success in the NFL? The Pats and the Steelers. How many "flashy" and "big name" free agents do these teams sign? They very rarely do it and when they do it is usually them resigning their own guys. New England even did the unthinkable and let a "big name" LT go. Both of these teams are good at finding gems in the draft and then finding the right pieces at the right price in free agency. I'm sure we could have signed a handful of high profile guys and done very well next year maybe even the next 2 years, but how often do we see the "winners" in free agency a year or two down the road releasing the exact same players that had made them the "winners" of free agency. I really don't understand the lack of patience with our GM. Remember the goal is sustained success not to be a flash in the pan!

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Serious question,  isn't there a free agency complaint thread?

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1 hour ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

Ballard has said the goal has been to build for sustained success. Who are the 2 teams with probably the most sustained success in the NFL? The Pats and the Steelers. How many "flashy" and "big name" free agents do these teams sign? They very rarely do it and when they do it is usually them resigning their own guys. New England even did the unthinkable and let a "big name" LT go. Both of these teams are good at finding gems in the draft and then finding the right pieces at the right price in free agency. I'm sure we could have signed a handful of high profile guys and done very well next year maybe even the next 2 years, but how often do we see the "winners" in free agency a year or two down the road releasing the exact same players that had made them the "winners" of free agency. I really don't understand the lack of patience with our GM. Remember the goal is sustained success not to be a flash in the pan!

 

Yes, Ballard has faith in his and the Colts scouts ability to target both pro players and draft prospects.  Landing them is a tougher nut to crack.

 

26 minutes ago, sracolts84 said:

I think we'll see the Colts sign a few free agents over the weekend.

 

 

 

And here and there all the way up to (and I feel very near) the draft.  Some teams cannot keep all their guys and pay draft picks and have leftover to pay others that fill in for injured and IR players.  Ballard will have to compete against Belichick for those. (that are in common for targeting, anyway).

 

Neither guy is in for the 'OverpayFrenzy' initial FA period that is exciting for fans and media, but does not always work out for the teams that are involved.

 

We'll field a team, and it won't be the worst in the NFL.  The folks will complain we won too many games to get another decent round of draft picks, like 2018... 

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It’s obvious that Ballard wants to build his team through the draft. He signed some decent free agents last season. It’s not over yet, I’m sure we see another couple guys that could be sneaky signings. That’s what Ballard looks for. I think it may be inevitable that we trade back out of #3 to collect as many draft picks as possible. That has to be the only way. I don’t think Ballard is going to be “all in” on Chubb or any 1 player at #3. I think he’s going to be looking for the highest value for trading out of #3 and see what picks are there. 

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https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/5/7/8571409/the-nfl-positional-value-pyramid-a-visual-of-john-dorseys-production

 

NFL_Pyramid.0.jpg

 

This is a great resource. Positional value for a 3-4 defense. This pyramid was constructed from researching Bill Polian, Steve Bellichick, and several top GM/Scouting work over the years. John Dorsey in his time at Kansas City fits the pyramid to a T. I cannot help but think that Ballard's vision wasn't influenced from this...

Obviously 1st tier is taken care of (if Andrew is healthy).You can argue for or against that LT is secured with Castonzo, I am going to say it is secure... Primary Edge Rusher could be taken care of, with drafting Chubb at #3 this year. Wilson is considered to be our primary corner going forward, and if so, that would take care of tier 2. I think those 4 positions are highly valued with any defense, but this pyramid is clearly for a 3-4 defense.

 

With a 4-3 defense, I think FS would be higher on the list, especially a Zone based, which is what the Colts are looking to implement. I would venture to guess that it would be a 3rd tier value, and speaks to why Hooker was selected at 15 last draft. Middle Linebacker is certainly a high priority on this list, and causes me the greatest concern with what Ballard's thought process is with it. I am assuming he is hot on some guys in the draft, but that might require passing on #3 and Chubb (assuming he is available) and moving down to select someone like Smith from Georgia. 

Regardless, I think this model is a good reference point to start talking about what Ballard's vision is with positional value, to help understand why he is passing on big dollar players. If anything, this chart makes me feel comfortable knowing he clearly doesn't value spending big on an interior offensive lineman. Will be an interesting rest of FA, and the draft is going to be exciting. Stay optimistic, friends. We have a smart man leading this organization for the long haul, not for the immediate gratification that you are all anxiously searching.

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14 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

It’s obvious that Ballard wants to build his team through the draft. He signed some decent free agents last season. It’s not over yet, I’m sure we see another couple guys that could be sneaky signings. That’s what Ballard looks for. I think it may be inevitable that we trade back out of #3 to collect as many draft picks as possible. That has to be the only way. I don’t think Ballard is going to be “all in” on Chubb or any 1 player at #3. I think he’s going to be looking for the highest value for trading out of #3 and see what picks are there. 

He better trade back with the Bills now, like next week.  They're anxious and this is not the time to be cute.  Ballard is too slow and he needs to move quickly on this trade before the Giants or Browns move ahead of us.  They have smart GM's now.  They have more experience and will out fox Ballard if he waits to long. 

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not an over reaction

 

we had the worst team in the division and we are getting worse

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2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

not an over reaction

 

we had the worst team in the division and we are getting worse

in whose eyes? as i recall one year we signed a bunch of free agents under grigs and looked real good on paper. but come season time we looked horrible. Also if you think that norwell and moncrief were big upgrades for jax then i find that hilarious. imo the only other division foe that looks good right now are the texans and that because watson is back

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2 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

in whose eyes? as i recall one year we signed a bunch of free agents under grigs and looked real good on paper. but come season time we looked horrible. Also if you think that norwell and moncrief were big upgrades for jax then i find that hilarious. imo the only other division foe that looks good right now are the texans and that because watson is back

we were already the worst team in the division.  the jags getting norwell makes them better than they were, he is not over the hill. 

 

just because we signed a bunch of bad free agents doesnt mean it always has to be like that!

 

the getting worse comment was about melvin, we have done nothing to get better

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Just now, aaron11 said:

we were already the worst team in the division.  the jags getting norwell makes them better than they were, he is not over the hill. 

we were not the worst team in the division. 1st we had a QB who had just came in without an offseason. 2nd we were never really out of ball games we just had bad coaching. 3 had luck played we would have went to the playoffs last season

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Just now, Shadow_Creek said:

we were not the worst team in the division. 1st we had a QB who had just came in without an offseason. 2nd we were never really out of ball games we just had bad coaching. 3 had luck played we would have went to the playoffs last season

this is nuts, we have the worst team and its not close.  we did beat the texans but they are better when healthy.

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8 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

in whose eyes? as i recall one year we signed a bunch of free agents under grigs and looked real good on paper. but come season time we looked horrible. Also if you think that norwell and moncrief were big upgrades for jax then i find that hilarious. imo the only other division foe that looks good right now are the texans and that because watson is back

how does jacksonville not look good?  they destroyed us twice last year, we got shut out in one of them 

 

we cant stop their running game or score on their defense

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1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

this is nuts, we have the worst team and its not close.  we did beat the texans but they are better when healthy.

lol ok if it helps you sleep at night keep believing that:thmup:

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Just now, Shadow_Creek said:

lol ok if it helps you sleep at night keep believing that:thmup:

thats what i would say to you

 

you think we had a play off worthy team?  ok lmao

 

good night 

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For me, it's a bit hard to verbalize, but I will try.

 

General belief:

Don't draft O-lineman in the first round (exception LT)

Don't draft O-linemen in second round (exception RT)

Draft LG,C, RG in 3rd round or later........

General state of O-line: Need LG, RG, RT

 

What has and needs to be done:

PAST efforts-Team addressed O-line issues by: Drafting G's (plural) C with 1st round pick and various FA.

2018 assessment: Spend money on proven marquee O-lineman in FA so we can draft defense, defense, defense, oh and maybe the occasional offensive playmaker RB, WR type thinking

 

Early results of 2018 offseason:

So far: Swinging and missing on FA O-line...........

 

Going Forward:

Adjusted strategy at this point: Panic!

 

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Let me start by saying I for one was not a fan of hiring ANOTHER first time gm in the first place. It took a total train wreck in Indy for the "hot shot" Ballard to get his first gm job after being in the league for years. Why? Look at all the young rising first time coaches being hired throughout the world of sports while having instant success. My point is that someone saw something in them thus pulling the trigger. Now you have a "sure thing" like Ballard who couldn't nab a gm spot in over a decade? What I see is a STUBBORN guy with no titles who might rub some the wrong way and it will not fly with todays athlete. Players will avoid Indy like the plague. Even though I'm glad we have Frank Reich in tow Ballard is doing him NO favors right now in upgrading this team's talent level. A team that finished almost LAST in all major categories on BOTH sides of the ball. Keep in mind that Ballard flipped this roster last season by over 50% to go along with his very avg draft. He seemed to ignore the ALREADY woeful o-line which ended up allowing a league 56 sacks under his watch putting Brissett in the SAME harm's way like Luck before him.  I see Ballard resigned the god awful Vujnovich to continue the bad o-line play. :facepalm:

 

Maybe it wasn't Luck's health that many have speculated as to why McDaniels pulled out. Maybe it was Ballard's non plan to attract talent that didn't sit well with Josh. Ballard can rely on the draft all he wants to BUT he better be nailing it out of the park by drafting some early Pro Bowl type of players as well as some future HOF types. Teams today use BOTH the draft as well as FA to build monster talented teams full of playmakers. Whether Ballard believes in a star's worth or not that is the going rate of today's game. Ballard can stick to his guns and pay 3rd tier types for cheap and HOPE they overachieve but good luck with that one.

 

In the end of HOF gm Polian's tenure with the Colts the problem was that his old school mentality couldn't adapt to today's game. He whiffed in the draft because he would only draft certain types of players which were limited in talent and refused to pay in FA. Sound familiar? In came first time gm Grigson with his spending in FA and it was welcomed with open arms BUT the problem was WHO he spent the money on. When the big name young proven starters were out there he chose 2nd tier key role players and gave them big contracts. Landry was a one hit wonder that the Colts gave big money to instead of keeping Bethea who went on to having Pro Bowl seasons with the Niners. Art Jones was a BIG miss because he couldn't stay healthy or off drugs but that was a Chuck endorsed move. In the end Grigson was spending big bucks on guys with "names" who were past their prime and had little left in the tank but....

 

Grigson's BIGGEST failure was neglecting that o-line year after year by trying to plug it with subpar bodies whether they were injury prone or simply non NFL talented guys. Grigson got away with it the first few years with Luck's talent and the woeful division but it all fell apart as injuries mounted on Luck from continued qb hits. Every Colt fan should be watching Ballard with a raised eyebrow just like the national sports media has already started questioning some of his moves from last season to his NON moves this season. 

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2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

not an over reaction

 

we had the worst team in the division and we are getting worse

 

It's obvious we have not made the gains the other teams have in the AFCS thru this FA signing period.  Also, Ballard has made the decision to take one step back this season in order to take two steps forward in 2019.  Let hope his plan works.  So far, I too am not sold on Ballard's small body of work.

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10 hours ago, ColtsAC said:

If Ballard was a baseball player, his most dominant trait would be "Whiff!!!!".

From what I can see his smartest move of the last week was the trade this morning other than that he is an *.

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3 hours ago, aaron11 said:

we were already the worst team in the division.  the jags getting norwell makes them better than they were, he is not over the hill. 

 

just because we signed a bunch of bad free agents doesnt mean it always has to be like that!

 

the getting worse comment was about melvin, we have done nothing to get better

Horse dung. Had Luck been on the field not only would we have made the playoffs we more than likely would have won the division.

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1 hour ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

Let me start by saying I for one was not a fan of hiring ANOTHER first time gm in the first place. It took a total train wreck in Indy for the "hot shot" Ballard to get his first gm job after being in the league for years. Why? Look at all the young rising first time coaches being hired throughout the world of sports while having instant success. My point is that someone saw something in them thus pulling the trigger. Now you have a "sure thing" like Ballard who couldn't nab a gm spot in over a decade? What I see is a STUBBORN guy with no titles who might rub some the wrong way and it will not fly with todays athlete. Players will avoid Indy like the plague. Even though I'm glad we have Frank Reich in tow Ballard is doing him NO favors right now in upgrading this team's talent level. A team that finished almost LAST in all major categories on BOTH sides of the ball. Keep in mind that Ballard flipped this roster last season by over 50% to go along with his very avg draft. He seemed to ignore the ALREADY woeful o-line which ended up allowing a league 56 sacks under his watch putting Brissett in the SAME harm's way like Luck before him.  I see Ballard resigned the god awful Vujnovich to continue the bad o-line play. :facepalm:

 

Maybe it wasn't Luck's health that many have speculated as to why McDaniels pulled out. Maybe it was Ballard's non plan to attract talent that didn't sit well with Josh. Ballard can rely on the draft all he wants to BUT he better be nailing it out of the park by drafting some early Pro Bowl type of players as well as some future HOF types. Teams today use BOTH the draft as well as FA to build monster talented teams full of playmakers. Whether Ballard believes in a star's worth or not that is the going rate of today's game. Ballard can stick to his guns and pay 3rd tier types for cheap and HOPE they overachieve but good luck with that one.

 

In the end of HOF gm Polian's tenure with the Colts the problem was that his old school mentality couldn't adapt to today's game. He whiffed in the draft because he would only draft certain types of players which were limited in talent and refused to pay in FA. Sound familiar? In came first time gm Grigson with his spending in FA and it was welcomed with open arms BUT the problem was WHO he spent the money on. When the big name young proven starters were out there he chose 2nd tier key role players and gave them big contracts. Landry was a one hit wonder that the Colts gave big money to instead of keeping Bethea who went on to having Pro Bowl seasons with the Niners. Art Jones was a BIG miss because he couldn't stay healthy or off drugs but that was a Chuck endorsed move. In the end Grigson was spending big bucks on guys with "names" who were past their prime and had little left in the tank but....

 

Grigson's BIGGEST failure was neglecting that o-line year after year by trying to plug it with subpar bodies whether they were injury prone or simply non NFL talented guys. Grigson got away with it the first few years with Luck's talent and the woeful division but it all fell apart as injuries mounted on Luck from continued qb hits. Every Colt fan should be watching Ballard with a raised eyebrow just like the national sports media has already started questioning some of his moves from last season to his NON moves this season. 

 

You Nailed it. Major Props.

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5 hours ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

Ballard has said the goal has been to build for sustained success. Who are the 2 teams with probably the most sustained success in the NFL? The Pats and the Steelers. How many "flashy" and "big name" free agents do these teams sign? They very rarely do it and when they do it is usually them resigning their own guys. New England even did the unthinkable and let a "big name" LT go. Both of these teams are good at finding gems in the draft and then finding the right pieces at the right price in free agency. I'm sure we could have signed a handful of high profile guys and done very well next year maybe even the next 2 years, but how often do we see the "winners" in free agency a year or two down the road releasing the exact same players that had made them the "winners" of free agency. I really don't understand the lack of patience with our GM. Remember the goal is sustained success not to be a flash in the pan!

 

 

This all , IMO , comes down to how you feel about 2018 free agency. Teams are flush with cap room and they also now know how to work the salty cap to create money to sign one of the "stars" for "bloated" money. If you look at each individual contract for the players we contacted or were said to be interested in , they all signed incredibly ridiculous contracts. Hutchins 9 mill per year , Jensen 10 mill , the WR contracts were insane. But .. on the other hand how is Ballard ever going to use the 70 mill ? Sure he'll sign some 2nd tier guys this year and have a ton for next year also. But who's to say next year will not be even more expensive ? 

 

Bottom line is there is 2 sides to this and each has a good argument . Looking back at this , I almost think if it was possible to sign Norwell , maybe we should have offered him more ? 

 

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5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Horse dung. Had Luck been on the field not only would we have made the playoffs we more than likely would have won the division.

 

No..... He said from Day 1 "it's not about 1 player".

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3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

He better trade back with the Bills now, like next week.  They're anxious and this is not the time to be cute.  Ballard is too slow and he needs to move quickly on this trade before the Giants or Browns move ahead of us.  They have smart GM's now.  They have more experience and will out fox Ballard if he waits to long. 

To the bolded, I disagree totally. 

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43 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

No..... He said from Day 1 "it's not about 1 player".

You missed my point.

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My God. Ballard makes a good trade and all of a sudden 50 different scenarios pop up out of nowhere. There can't be a shortage of General Managers as many as there are right here in this forum.

Listen up guys, get you resumes together and get them out to the owners quick. :hat:

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7 hours ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

Ballard has said the goal has been to build for sustained success. Who are the 2 teams with probably the most sustained success in the NFL? The Pats and the Steelers. How many "flashy" and "big name" free agents do these teams sign? They very rarely do it and when they do it is usually them resigning their own guys. New England even did the unthinkable and let a "big name" LT go. Both of these teams are good at finding gems in the draft and then finding the right pieces at the right price in free agency. I'm sure we could have signed a handful of high profile guys and done very well next year maybe even the next 2 years, but how often do we see the "winners" in free agency a year or two down the road releasing the exact same players that had made them the "winners" of free agency. I really don't understand the lack of patience with our GM. Remember the goal is sustained success not to be a flash in the pan!

Because todays world is a NOW NOW NOW world. 

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