Major disappointment in Ballard

[Flash7]

Just doing my Bott smart butt remark impersonation.

[Coltsman1788]

7 minutes ago, akcolt said:

There are still a lot players available many options at WR Grant Meredith and Matthews OL Pouncey Fluker Spain DE Mayowa Curry   CB Desir Gaines That's a few guys I'm looking at FA is not over. 

We will end up with whoever most of the other teams don’t want.  Yay. 

[BOTT]

1 minute ago, Flash7 said:

Just doing my Bott smart butt remark impersonation.

You failed.

 

if you want to make sense, just he isn't a closer because he's being cheap.

[Flash7]

Just now, BOTT said:

You failed.

 

if you want to make sense, just he isn't a closer because he's being cheap.

So he’s cheap.

[jameszeigler834]

9 minutes ago, akcolt said:

There are still a lot players available many options at WR Grant Meredith and Matthews OL Pouncey Fluker Spain DE Mayowa Curry   CB Desir Gaines That's a few guys I'm looking at FA is not over. 

Its over we are well behind 0-6 in the division next year its a lock.

[boo2202]

9 minutes ago, akcolt said:

There are still a lot players available many options at WR Grant Meredith and Matthews OL Pouncey Fluker Spain DE Mayowa Curry   CB Desir Gaines That's a few guys I'm looking at FA is not over. 

would rather save the money now. Maybe sign a couple guys to a 1yr prove it deal. Take the wait and see approach. There's NO way we contend this year. If Ballard knocks this draft out of the park, spend next year.

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, boo2202 said:

would rather save the money now. Maybe sign a couple guys to a 1yr prove it deal. Take the wait and see approach. There's NO way we contend this year. If Ballard knocks this draft out of the park, spend next year.

Luck has to be optimistic reading this!

[NorthernBlue]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

I'm disappointed in the lack of Oline help to this point, but that's about it.

So am I, but regarding, Ballard has gone after 3 of the top guys. They just happened to go to other teams. Now maybe Ballard mucked up negotiations or was penny pinching, but until that's proven I'll refrain from blaming it all on him.

[El Potro]

5 minutes ago, akcolt said:

There are still a lot players available many options at WR Grant Meredith and Matthews OL Pouncey Fluker Spain DE Mayowa Curry   CB Desir Gaines That's a few guys I'm looking at FA is not over. 

I agree FA is no where near over. I've now got my eyes on Tahir Whitehead - LB, Paul Worrilow - LB (should be a cheap flier, so we'll see), Jordan Matthews - WR, Cameron Meredith - WR, EJ Gaines - CB, & maybe someone like Kenny Vaccaro - S/LB hybrid. 

 

It is odd/concerning that we have only signed 1 free agent so far, but that's bound to change soon enough. 

[Trueman]

I’ll admit I definitely expected to see more signings by now , but after Ballard’s free agency class last year, I definitely understand his process as well.

 

There is tons of undervalued/misutilized/underrated talent in the NFL - at least to me (as someone who doesn’t know all 53 on each team). I wasn’t jumping for joy over last season’s signings either , but I ended up liking most of them (if not all).

 

So I’m not going to overreact to something that hasn’t happened. By that I mean, the simple question of : are we better than last year? We won’t know until at least a few games into the season.

 

Fans have the luxury of judging roster acquisitions on if they work or not. It’s pretty black and white for us. I’m just going to wait and see if what Ballard does works . Then I’ll pass judgement. 

 

The rest is kind of pointless. The NFL is so much different from other sports , it’s not as simple as like signing a big name in basketball and you can almost guarantee the level of impact they’ll have. 

 

Football is far more complex and difficult to predict. The amount of good players that come out of nowhere in this league is absurd, in no other sport are undrafted players so successful for example.

 

I’m just going to let it play out because free agency in this sport is too unpredictable for me to pass judgement. I’ve learned that lesson over and over.

.

I know people love trades and signings, and I do too , but I enjoy them for any team. Trying to figure out and judge what other teams are doing is at times fascinating (probably more than it should be),

 

But, it isn’t bothering me that we’re missing out on big names, because I know how friggin’ weird this sport is.

[Hoose]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Re-read my post.   You've misunderstood what I've written.

 

Another poster suggested Ballard is saving his money because this year's FA is poor but next year's class is supposed to be good.

 

I simply stated that's not likely what Balllard is doing because in the next year teams will sign many of those free agents and they won't hit the market.

 

I was NOT commenting on what is happening this year.

 

Look NCF. I liken your angle on many things. But Ballard needs to build this team with FA AND the  draft. With the $ now available with the cap, Ballard has failed miserably to draw top notch talent to this team. So we now see an extra year of draft focused rebuild. With the third highest $ to spend in FA, you’ve got to pull the trigger on a few high level players. Show me where that has happened so far? He’s Effed up. 

[rock8591]

This year's FA class is horrible.

 

D. Lawrence and Ansah locked up before FA.

Norwell went to Jacksonville.

 

Rest of them are average to below average starters and backups getting pro-bowl money; e.g. Pugh, Jenson, Ryan Grant, McKinnon, etc.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, Hoose said:

Look NCF. I liken your angle on many things. But Ballard needs to build this team with FA AND the  draft. With the $ now available with the cap, Ballard has failed miserably to draw top notch talent to this team. So we now see an extra year of draft focused rebuild. With the third highest $ to spend in FA, you’ve got to pull the trigger on a few high level players. Show me where that has happened so far? He’s Effed up. 

 

Why do you think I've defended Ballard in this thread?   I've defended him elsewhere, in other threads, but not here.

 

Worse, when I told you I wasn't defending Ballard here and I explained what I was doing, you've once again accused me of defending Ballard here.   I'm not.

 

How many different ways do I have to say the same thing?   I'm not doing what you think I'm doing.  

 

I'm confused with what is happening, but I'd like to reserve judgement and actually hear what Ballard has to say.

 

We clear now?

 

[dw49]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I freely admit the choices are narrowing fast....     but that said....

 

Isnt this an odd question for you to be asking considering a few days ago you admitted you had never even heard of Jensen and didn't think we should be interested in him.....

 

 

There really is not much left . I won't going looking for it but I said earlier that there were so many teams flush with cap space that teams were going to way overpay for the better free agents.

 

We even somehow lost Melvin for 6.5 mill ? We needed a WR , G and CB . We had the 3rd most cap space .. a healthy 70+ million. To come out of this without signing at least ONE of the top guys from those 3 positions is tough to swallow. I think those that wanted Norwell at 14 mill were probably right . To make things sting a little more it looks like Tenn , Jack and Houston all did very well. On the other hand , I guess if you look at each player's contract 1 by 1 , you'll no doubt come to the conclusion that they all were way overpaid ... 

[Clem-Dog]

A lot of people are wrong to think that it's a good idea to waste money during the first wave of free agency, especially since Norwell was the only truly elite prospect available.  Actually Ballard deserves an award for not overpaying Hitchens, Watkins, Butler, McKinnon etc...  He did say that he's not going to pay mid-level talent top-level dollars.  Guess he wasn't bluffing.

[The Peytonator]

33 minutes ago, Trueman said:

I’ll admit I definitely expected to see more signings by now , but after Ballard’s free agency class last year, I definitely understand his process as well.

 

There is tons of undervalued/misutilized/underrated talent in the NFL - at least to me (as someone who doesn’t know all 53 on each team). I wasn’t jumping for joy over last season’s signings either , but I ended up liking most of them (if not all).

 

So I’m not going to overreact to something that hasn’t happened. By that I mean, the simple question of : are we better than last year? We won’t know until at least a few games into the season.

 

Fans have the luxury of judging roster acquisitions on if they work or not. It’s pretty black and white for us. I’m just going to wait and see if what Ballard does works . Then I’ll pass judgement. 

 

The rest is kind of pointless. The NFL is so much different from other sports , it’s not as simple as like signing a big name in basketball and you can almost guarantee the level of impact they’ll have. 

 

Football is far more complex and difficult to predict. The amount of good players that come out of nowhere in this league is absurd, in no other sport are undrafted players so successful for example.

 

I’m just going to let it play out because free agency in this sport is too unpredictable for me to pass judgement. I’ve learned that lesson over and over.

.

I know people love trades and signings, and I do too , but I enjoy them for any team. Trying to figure out and judge what other teams are doing is at times fascinating (probably more than it should be),

 

But, it isn’t bothering me that we’re missing out on big names, because I know how friggin’ weird this sport is.

 

 

Very well stated.

 

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed, or that this is how I'd have played free agency if I were Ballard. However, we aren't behind the scenes. We don't know how these negotiations have played out. It really could be as simple as these guys we've gone after not wanting to come here regardless of how much they were being offered.

 

Ballard has so far earned my trust, as he really did kill it last offseason. I remember thinking how much we overpaid Hankins, how Sheard and Simon were average, and how Woods and Bostic were both really bad, yet each of those signings turned out far better than I expected. While this offseason has not played out the way I wished, and I am not afraid to say that I disagree with Ballard, he has definitely earned the benefit of the doubt so far. 

[SolidGold]

Maybe the plan is to sign undrafted players from this years draft instead of wasting money in FA this year. All of our needs can be fixed through the draft. Every player can't be drafted so im sure out of the top 200 players this year we can find some true talent that we can sign for cheap that have a higher ceiling. We will have 7 picks minimum and possibly more with a trade back + undrafted pool of players. No worries people.

[SolidGold]

The whole secret lies in confusing the enemy, so that he cannot fathom our real intent.

 

 

Be extremely subtle even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.

  

The Art of War, Sun Tzu

[LockeDown]

 This is how he works and He hasn't misled us afaik. I'm not even disappointed a little. I really admire his ability to stick to his guns.  He could have outbid for several guys by now and he held fast.  He's not a bad closer and he's not cheap...he just sticks to what he thinks is right. 

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, Luckuania said:

I agree FA is no where near over. I've now got my eyes on Tahir Whitehead - LB, Paul Worrilow - LB (should be a cheap flier, so we'll see), Jordan Matthews - WR, Cameron Meredith - WR, EJ Gaines - CB, & maybe someone like Kenny Vaccaro - S/LB hybrid. 

 

It is odd/concerning that we have only signed 1 free agent so far, but that's bound to change soon enough. 

They majority of the guys I thought we'd look at and included in my mock are still there. I guess I don't see who we've missed out on. 

 

I didn't think Norwell was coming to Indy. Hitchens surprised me a little but he got a fat contract. Last summer the majority were heated we were going into the season with Melvin as our #2 CB now it's a fail we didn't resign him. Funny how that works.

 

We are going to add WR's as I said Meredith and Matthews are the 2 I've been eyeing. We will add to the OL and the D. Let's see where we are the end of next week. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, Clem-Dog said:

A lot of people are wrong to think that it's a good idea to waste money during the first wave of free agency, especially since Norwell was the only truly elite prospect available.  Actually Ballard deserves an award for not overpaying Hitchens, Watkins, Butler, McKinnon etc...  He did say that he's not going to pay mid-level talent top-level dollars.  Guess he wasn't bluffing.

 

I suspect HE WILL get a award/rewarded..

a 2019 Top 10 pick, maybe Top 5 or better.

[stitches]

3 hours ago, Flash7 said:

It’s still early in the process, but I do think there’s something to Ballard not being a closer.

 

He couldn’t close Poe last year, and then I thought, okay, Poe chose Atlanta, and Ballard didn’t want to overpay despite pursuing him heavily.

 

Then he couldn’t close Norwell, and again I thought the same thing. Norwell chose the Jags. Ballard didn’t want to overpay.

 

But then with Jensen, Melvin, etc he keeps missing out. I’m getting concerned that he’s actually just a nice guy, but NOT a closer.

You do realize that most teams miss on most of the players they target, right? Like... the average high end free agent probably gets interest of at least 7-8 teams. This means that for every team that gets a FA, there are at least 6-7 teams that don't get him. 

 

With all that said I would be lying if I said I am not at least a little bit worried that we haven't been able to address at least the O-line. This to me was the priority... and for one reason or another we've missed on most of the high end talent in FA there. 

[Luck 4 president]

47 minutes ago, SolidGold said:

Maybe the plan is to sign undrafted players from this years draft instead of wasting money in FA this year. All of our needs can be fixed through the draft. Every player can't be drafted so im sure out of the top 200 players this year we can find some true talent that we can sign for cheap that have a higher ceiling. We will have 7 picks minimum and possibly more with a trade back + undrafted pool of players. No worries people.

All of our needs can’t be fixed through the draft and undrafted FA’s. It’s not possible given how many needs we have. Just because we have 7 picks (maybe 10 with a trade back) doesn’t mean all those players are going to successfully fill a need. Last year none of our rookies got significant playing time besides Malik Hooker and he only lasted 7 games. Hairston and Mack got some decent playing time but nothing significant. 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

2 hours ago, Trueman said:

I’ll admit I definitely expected to see more signings by now , but after Ballard’s free agency class last year, I definitely understand his process as well.

 

There is tons of undervalued/misutilized/underrated talent in the NFL - at least to me (as someone who doesn’t know all 53 on each team). I wasn’t jumping for joy over last season’s signings either , but I ended up liking most of them (if not all).

 

So I’m not going to overreact to something that hasn’t happened. By that I mean, the simple question of : are we better than last year? We won’t know until at least a few games into the season.

 

Fans have the luxury of judging roster acquisitions on if they work or not. It’s pretty black and white for us. I’m just going to wait and see if what Ballard does works . Then I’ll pass judgement. 

 

The rest is kind of pointless. The NFL is so much different from other sports , it’s not as simple as like signing a big name in basketball and you can almost guarantee the level of impact they’ll have. 

 

Football is far more complex and difficult to predict. The amount of good players that come out of nowhere in this league is absurd, in no other sport are undrafted players so successful for example.

 

I’m just going to let it play out because free agency in this sport is too unpredictable for me to pass judgement. I’ve learned that lesson over and over.

.

I know people love trades and signings, and I do too , but I enjoy them for any team. Trying to figure out and judge what other teams are doing is at times fascinating (probably more than it should be),

 

But, it isn’t bothering me that we’re missing out on big names, because I know how friggin’ weird this sport is.

 

Excellent post! 

 

I will say that I’m concerned that we hasn’t added any quality help on the O-Line. Since this is about protecting Luck, I think it would be ok for Ballard to compromise a bit on his principles and over-pay a bit, given the cap space. Front load the contract and accept the circumstances. 

[neug3246]

4 hours ago, TheMarine said:

Since 2013, Grigs drafted at most 3 guys who will get a 2nd contract, as a COLT.

 

I fail to see how 1 off-season is supposed to fix that.

Dude you're wrong I think Grigs only drafted 3 guys period who will get a 2nd contract ever in the NFL. lol ok maybe its more like 6-7 but seriously you can count them on like one ore two hands.

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I doubt Ballard is counting on next years FA class...   because between now and a year from now many of the best possible free agents will be signed by their teams to new contracts.    They won't reach free agency..

 

True.  I wouldn't describe is counting on the class.  More like getting a feel for the landscape.  With the responsibilities of his job,  I was thinking that he would know which players on other teams fit his system, if their contracts are coming due, what those teams salary cap room is and likeliness to be re-signed given what the player would be worth.  Things change in the coming year as you said, but if the starting point shows a lot of potential players he would target or a few, it might make the difference on if he wants to hold back money for future periods.  To judge the quality of, say, the next two seasons of potential FA compared to this season so he won't hamstring his plan by overspending on marginal players this year.  

 

I know GMs look ahead with the draft, but things change with the college players' development and team needs during the coming year.

 

 

[CopenhagenColt]

7 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Isn't free agency only a couple days in? Why don't we relax and see how it plays out

You get that there's not much quality left, right?

Who's left that could provide an upgrade to our O-line?

Any WR's worth anything left?

What about linebackers?

CB's (most have called the wrong Gaines)

Anyone else out there, not called Suh?

 

Autry is an okay signing, but let's be real here for a moment. He's at best an average NFL player.

[krunk]

5 hours ago, akcolt said:

They majority of the guys I thought we'd look at and included in my mock are still there. I guess I don't see who we've missed out on. 

 

I didn't think Norwell was coming to Indy. Hitchens surprised me a little but he got a fat contract. Last summer the majority were heated we were going into the season with Melvin as our #2 CB now it's a fail we didn't resign him. Funny how that works.

 

We are going to add WR's as I said Meredith and Matthews are the 2 I've been eyeing. We will add to the OL and the D. Let's see where we are the end of next week. 

Everything is about fits with Ballard. He knows this thing is going to take some time. Hes going to stick to his scouting and his valuations. If it works it works. If it doesn't then on to the next option. Pick up a guy here, pick up a guy there between now and the draft. You may not even be all that familiar with the guys name but you will immediately see the fit and how the guy can help. I can tell hes got a very detailed plan to fit different scenarios. I can tell he trusts how they are approaching this. Stay tuned!

[Cynjin]

9 hours ago, Hoose said:

I am am in the “be patient” camp. Let the process work itself out. And I’ve wanted to give Ballard the benefit of the doubt at all times.

However, I have to say he has badly miscalculated in free agency. The Colts are no longer a must go destination for players. You have to pay the $ to get the best free agents. The Colts had the third highest amount of money headed into free agency. They have NOTHING to show for it at this point. The remaining free agents are basically second tier. Sorry, but this is a major fail. If you are the Colts, you likely have to pay premium $ to get the best free agents. This fail by Ballard is arguably setting this team back a full year. They need to build through both the draft and FA.  

Ballard has majorly failed in the FA process. The Colts are further behind than they were a month ago. What a huge disappointment. And it pains me to say this. 

 

 Only 3 days into free agency and you're in the be patient camp?

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Everything is about fits with Ballard. He knows this thing is going to take some time. Hes going to stick to his scouting and his valuations. If it works it works. If it doesn't then on to the next option.

I don't understand why there are so many who are surprised at anything Ballard has done or hasn't done. He is doing exactly what he said he was going to do. He said he wasn't going to over spend for free agents and he was building through the draft. He hasn't varied from what he said he was going to do.

If anyone expected this team to be competitive enough this year then they are delusional. We don't even know how the coaching staff is going to do or if they are the right ones for the jobs. Everyone wanted a new coaching staff, well we have one now and it's a wait and see thing now. There is no high dollar free agent that is going to get us wins. Signing a free agent is the least of our problems at this time.

[Cynjin]

8 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

 

I will say this and I don’t think it can be argued. All three opponents in the division have gotten better this year via free agency. The Colts have not improved at all, in fact they’ve gotten worse by losing players. 

 

 This is what I'm talking about. There is no way you can say that definitively, could it be true yes, but it could equally be false.  You have to wait until the end of the season the see how it plays out before you make any kind of statement like that.

[krunk]

38 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't understand why there are so many who are surprised at anything Ballard has done or hasn't done. He is doing exactly what he said he was going to do. He said he wasn't going to over spend for free agents and he was building through the draft. He hasn't varied from what he said he was going to do.

If anyone expected this team to be competitive enough this year then they are delusional. We don't even know how the coaching staff is going to do or if they are the right ones for the jobs. Everyone wanted a new coaching staff, well we have one now and it's a wait and see thing now. There is no high dollar free agent that is going to get us wins. Signing a free agent is the least of our problems at this time.

I think there are some FA we could have acquired to speed up the process. And Ballard did seek to aquire said FA that they saw value in. However its not as simple as slinging dollars around. The player has to want to be on your team more than the others. And the motivation varies. No guarantee you will land the guy you want. Also you have to stick with where you valued the guy at. Some of these contracts are ridiculous and the teams who shelled them out wont see the expected ROI. Why would you do dumb stuff like that when your philosophy is "Build through quality drafting"? If the fit is there and you have mutual consent then you make the acquisition. If its not then you don't force yourself into a bad position financially just to say you signed a body. The priority is on stacking drafts. One thing I learned from Real Estate investing is its very easy to get accepted offers on bad deals. Just because you see somebody making a lot of noise it doesn't necessarily mean the benefit will be there. We are looking for good fits here that maximize value. Then we want to layer strong drafting on top of that. If you're doing it the right way sometimes the process requires you to be patient.

[Valpo2004]

6 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

 

 

Very well stated.

 

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed, or that this is how I'd have played free agency if I were Ballard. However, we aren't behind the scenes. We don't know how these negotiations have played out. It really could be as simple as these guys we've gone after not wanting to come here regardless of how much they were being offered.

 

Ballard has so far earned my trust, as he really did kill it last offseason. I remember thinking how much we overpaid Hankins, how Sheard and Simon were average, and how Woods and Bostic were both really bad, yet each of those signings turned out far better than I expected. While this offseason has not played out the way I wished, and I am not afraid to say that I disagree with Ballard, he has definitely earned the benefit of the doubt so far. 

 

He earned your trust by going 3 -13??

 

The future looks good for many of the guys he brought in but that is it.  He hasn't made the Colts winners yet.

 

And at the rate things are going we will be picking in the top 5 again a year from now.

[VaAllDay757]

7 hours ago, akcolt said:

There are still a lot players available many options at WR Grant Meredith and Matthews OL Pouncey Fluker Spain DE Mayowa Curry   CB Desir Gaines That's a few guys I'm looking at FA is not over. 

Fluker is hot trash

[Valpo2004]

13 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

 Only 3 days into free agency and you're in the be patient camp?

Considering how long players have been agreeing to deals it's more like we are a week into FA.

[Cynjin]

8 hours ago, bananabucket said:

I disagree with his strategy.  Most people outside of this forum do as well.  But for some reason voicing disagreement or disappointment is tantamount to blasphemy around here.  People just make snarky replies and post gifs/emojis in an attempt to grab likes or something. 

 

 You could also say the same for the people who disagree with Ballard's approach.    Disagreeing with the approach is fine, but many posters make absolute statements, like the Colts have definitely gotten worse, Luck is going to get killed, Ballard is in over his head, and on and on.   Am I disappointed that they did not bring in more players in free agency, yes.   However, unlike many on this forum that's as far as I'll go.

[Cynjin]

1 minute ago, Valpo2004 said:

Considering how long players have been agreeing to deals it's more like we are a week into FA.

 

 That doesn't change my point.

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

9 hours ago, Hoose said:

I am am in the “be patient” camp. Let the process work itself out. And I’ve wanted to give Ballard the benefit of the doubt at all times.

However, I have to say he has badly miscalculated in free agency. The Colts are no longer a must go destination for players. You have to pay the $ to get the best free agents. The Colts had the third highest amount of money headed into free agency. They have NOTHING to show for it at this point. The remaining free agents are basically second tier. Sorry, but this is a major fail. If you are the Colts, you likely have to pay premium $ to get the best free agents. This fail by Ballard is arguably setting this team back a full year. They need to build through both the draft and FA.  

Ballard has majorly failed in the FA process. The Colts are further behind than they were a month ago. What a huge disappointment. And it pains me to say this. 

I agree that you need somewhat of a balance between building through the draft and FA.  I am behind Ballard, but the only thing that worries me is the impression he is beginning to give off.  Upcoming years may be difficult.  Future FA may not even give us a chance to talk with them; knowing that we have a be cheap mindset.  This could very well backfire, and damage our reputation of being a great destination to come to.

[Valpo2004]

4 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

 That doesn't change my point.

Not that many decent starters left out there.

[The Oopty Oop]

He is doing exactly what he said he was gonna. Sounded good a week ago but all of the sudden he's a fool?