Irsay furious about Luck situation, feels he was misled

[shakedownstreet]

<insert wild conspiracy theory here>

[ColtJ82]

Misled by who?

[csmopar]

https://www.wthr.com/article/kravitz-the-colts-get-bad-news-on-luck-but-in-the-long-term-its-not-quite-as-awful-as-you

[lollygagger8]

Blah blah blah....sorry I don't believe it.

 

I think if anyone was misleading it was Irsay. He kept saying that Luck will be back soon multiple, multiple times.

[DougDew]

Irsay shouldn't have been speaking in public about matters is doesn't know.  He's not a medical professional so anything he here's about Luck's shoulder is hearsay, but he spoke about it in more absolute terms than he should have.

 

Its possible that he could have been misled by the doctors.  That once they got into the shoulder they saw more damage than what was being reported, but the rehab would be about the same, only towards the long end of the estimate and not the short end, and Irsay was talking about the short end.  

[ColtsBlitz]

9 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Well he clearly progressed, he was throwing the ball 40 yards & running the scout team offense 3 weeks ago. 

That's what is so weird about this whole situation as it can be on both sides of good or bad. They could just be exceedingly overcautious, understanding re-injuring his shoulder before it's fully healed could end his career. 

 

On the other hand, it could be bad and not have healed properly. I obviously hope the Colts are not willing to put him out there with the current offensive line we have, but I am worried. Andrew Luck has been my favorite player since he was drafted and it's been hard not seeing him out there. 

[Valpo2004]

If Irsay was misled, then who did the misleading?  Doctors? Pagano? Ballard?

[oldunclemark]

Luck may just be healing slower than expected.

.....................again......doctors just guess at recovery time.

Andrew may have set back his recovery trying to do too much too soon....

 

I don't think anyone knows and, my worry is...we wont now know until next season begins

[pgt_rob]

Jim Irsay is Jim Irsay. Any time that you hear him speak about the team, he's always super optimistic and gives out high praises. It's his team, that's what he does and how he's always been. It just makes sense. He's always been optimistic about Andrew Luck returning. Then Luck had a setback which unfortunately shut him down for the year. I don't think he was misled. I think that is just how Irsay is. A man who lives in a bit of a dreamland and tries not to focus on the negative involving his franchise QB. 

[jvan1973]

33 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

If Irsay was misled, then who did the misleading?  Doctors? Pagano? Ballard?

How would pagano or Ballard mislead him.on a surgical recovery time?

[Cynjin]

2 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

<insert wild conspiracy theory here>

 

That’s the truth.  The tin foil hat wearers are out in force.

[TheMarine]

Yeah not going to take a Denver radio host over Kravitz, JMV or Tony D when it comes to sources.

 

That said, this guy probably has the same sources Mike Greenburg has about the Colts situation

[deedub75]

If this story has any truth to it, maybe Irsay felt like he was misled before he inked Luck to the new contract. 

[indy1888]

2 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

Yeah not going to take a Denver radio host over Kravitz, JMV or Tony D when it comes to sources.

 

That said, this guy probably has the same sources Mike Greenburg has about the Colts situation

 

Well, JMV has heard the same info so....

 

He said on his morning facebook live post today that he was told Irsay is "irate" and that he didn't even know IR was going to happen until yesterday.  I find that part hard to believe but Irsay has to act surprised i guess.

[Valpo2004]

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

How would pagano or Ballard mislead him.on a surgical recovery time?

 

Could have easily misled them about the pace at which he was recovering with his throwing.  

[Farmer colt]

No way this should be surprising, especially to an owner and NFL level doctors.  Told my neighbor before the season started he wouldn't play at all. Had a labrum SLAP repaIr surgery myself January of 10'. Couldn't throw a ball without pain for whole year. Just had to play through it and it's still not the same. Bicep tendon tightens after surgery and can take a while to loosen back up. Told me right up front before surgery it may take a year to heal fully and regain full strength. Just an owner, a team and a fan base being overly optimistic about a quick recovery with an already known long term outcome. 

[MackAttack]

I’m just happy we’re not putting Andrew behind this putrid o line just 6 months after his surgery. Thank you Ballard for thinking of the long term. 

[jvan1973]

18 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Could have easily misled them about the pace at which he was recovering with his throwing.  

Why would they do that?  

[Yoshinator]

4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

What?  The healing process for anyone who has surgery is all different. The doctor cant predict setbacks. I have been around surgeries and doctors a lot over the last few years. Not one time have I been told of a hard date when I was to recover. I went through two years of recovery after two cervical neck surgeries and fusions. Never did the surgeon or the follow up doctors give me a date.

Thank you for this info, I have never been injured, so I did not know this. Judging by your experience though, it seems the medical profession has a long way to advance before it becomes reliable, so I hope I never get injured, so I don't have to rely on a doctor who seems clueless about his or her job.

[Yoshinator]

4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

If you have that much hate and distrust for Irsay then you are going to be very unhappy. Irsay is not going anywhere. Even when he does his family will continue in his place. As long as he is alive he will have his hand in this team.

Don't put words in my mouth saying I hate him, you sound like a teenage girl. I was predicting this ahead of time before the season started when I made my thread about how Irsay lied to us about Luck before the season started. It's why I didn't order Sunday Ticket as well. I'm savvy to the business world and I know how someone like Irsay thinks and I'm also a poker player, so I'm able to read people way ahead of time and make an informed decision. I knew over two months ago what people are just figuring out now. That's not hate, that's understanding how the business world works and seeing the world through Irsay's eyes. However, an apology by Irsay was sorely needed, and instead, he doubled down by passing the blame on to someone else instead of apologizing to the fans for being wrong about Luck's injury situation.

 

I'll never be a billionaire, I'll never be a millionaire, but I was a quarter of the way there playing online poker at one point before it got shut down in the U.S., and I know how a leader in their field operates compared to a casual 9-5 guy. Irsay is doing damage control by deflecting the blame off himself. He is in hot water by the fans and media. He may stay and I never said I want him gone, but I guarantee you, that affects Irsay deep inside that he is the joke of fans and the media right now. Despite being a good hearted GM, he still has an ego.

[Jaric]

How is Jim Irsay more shocked about this than I am?

[SteelCityColt]

14 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Thank you for this info, I have never been injured, so I did not know this. Judging by your experience though, it seems the medical profession has a long way to advance before it becomes reliable, so I hope I never get injured, so I don't have to rely on a doctor who seems clueless about his or her job.

 

This post is somewhat insulting to the healthcare profession. You’ve already admitted your knowledge of it is scant so maybe hold back on passing such a damning opinion until you’re at least somewhat informed. 

 

If hearlthcare was a nice consistent system where x in equals y out it would be an easy game. But it’s not. Put it this way, in the UK the variance in terms of length of stay for the myriad of conditions is built into the tariff because we know different people heal at different rates depending on a huge number of factors. That’s before you even get into complications or comorbidities.

[Old Colt]

12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

The thing is Luck himself said he would be back this season. IMO there had to be some serious setback.

I agree, but the coaches and CB insist there wasn't......  thus the misleading begins and continues.  they were trapped then in a spiral trying to justify their previous comments...  Like anyone believed Pagano when he said he hadn't seen Luck throw at all.

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

This post is somewhat insulting to the healthcare profession. You’ve already admitted your knowledge of it is scant so maybe hold back on passing such a damning opinion until you’re at least somewhat informed. 

 

If hearlthcare was a nice consistent system where x in equals y out it would be an easy game. But it’s not. Put it this way, in the UK the variance in terms of length of stay for the myriad of conditions is built into the tariff because we know different people heal at different rates depending on a huge number of factors. That’s before you even get into complications or comorbidities.

I'm somewhat biased because I have lost many family members to cancer, many of my family members have had torn acls and they never recovered fully, many of my family members having trouble with diabetiies, among other things. These things will affect them for the rest of their lives or have already killed them, and it seems the world is more focused on the new cell phone rather than curing terminal illnesses or learning how to operate on patients better or diagnose timetables. I'm weary of hospitals and doctors because of this, even the best of the best apparently can't do it with high consistentency, so yes, the medical world is a bit insulting right now based on where it is on the list of priorities in the world.

[Coffeedrinker]

We are definitely discovering how great Polian was at running the Colts organization.  Grigson was rumored to be a control nut and thus didn't have control of anything and it is still going to take Ballard another year to get a handle on everything, if he is capable.

 

Everyone thinks a GMs job is about drafting but that is like saying an Army General is mainly responsible for recruiting.

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm somewhat biased because I have lost many family members to cancer, many of my family members have had torn acls and they never recovered fully, many of my family members having trouble with diabetiies, among other things. These things will affect them for the rest of their lives or have already killed them, and it seems the world is more focused on the new cell phone rather than curing terminal illnesses or learning how to operate on patients better or diagnose timetables. I'm weary of hospitals and doctors because of this, even the best of the best apparently can't do it with high consistentency, so yes, the medical world is a bit insulting right now based on where it is on the list of priorities in the world.

 

Dear lord this is a bit of a jumble and conflating things. However, and I’m in no way trying to be unsympathetic here but the things you describe aren’t necessarily the fault of the medical profession, especially the part about life priorities.

 

 

 

 

[Restored]

Everyone in here is throwing their own darts out so I might as well also..

 

I think the doctors, trainers etc. were likely consistent in what they were telling Irsay but he saw the more positive side of their analysis and decided to run with it. It's not necessarily unexpected that Irsay would be that way given he has a business to run but I have a feeling he wasn't being mislead as much as he was hearing what he wanted to hear.

[John Waylon]

I mean, who mislead him? Being mad is good. It shows he cares. But mad at who exactly?

[The Fish]

40 minutes ago, dgambill said:

No...I've been a fan since they moved here in 84. I've seen the Irsay's in action...outside of the time when they got Bill Polian in here to run things effectively and had Peyton its been mostly a disaster or run poorly. I saw it with his father and I think plenty of others question Jim's retaining Grigson and Pagano when he re-signed them. I've seen how he acts in his personal life with alcohol, prescription drugs and his crazy tweets. He is eccentric to say the least. That said I don't think he has a pulse on what is going on with the team...and wish his daughter would take over. I don't see anything juvenile about that....she seems to be a very strong woman and I think would make a great owner!

 

Oh and I didn't make a personal attack on any player, coach, or current gm. I apologize if you thought it was a low blow on Mr. Irsay...but honestly his actions over the years haven't given me a lot of faith in his leadership.....he turns into his father more and more every day it seems.

I'd wager whatever Jim's daughter brings to the table is all ready going on.

 

I get that Irsay isn't perfect, but I'm kind of stumped why people think he's the reason that Andrew can't throw or whatever. There's a contingency of people who will blame him for anything.

I suppose if he was helping scout with Grigson that's one thing, but I was under the impression that he let the GM, GM and the Coach, Coach.

His big moves have been moving on from Peyton for Luck. Bringing in Giggles and Chuck, firing Giggles and bringing in Ballard. Beyond that I don't really know what to specifically blame him for, besides some false optimism- and from the look of things it doesn't appear he was fooling many people. There's no shortage of people who just *knew* he wouldn't play this year (even though he was structurally sound enough to ramp up throwing and practice a bit..)

 

It seems to me that no one want's to accept that maybe this was all out of the control of anyone person- at least post surgery.

[IndySouthsider]

14 hours ago, JColts72 said:

Oh please, who is he kidding? Draft qb in 18 as luck may be done for.

Rosen, Darnold or ???

[dw49]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Even if Irsay didn't lie,  HE was the person who was the MOST optimistic.

 

He was the person who reapeatedly said Luck would be back this year by certain dates and times.    He was the person who proclaimed the o-line was finally fixed.   So even if he wasn't lying, he was the one who told the public things that turned out not to be true.   

 

I'm sure Irsay feels the heat from fans in his day to day life.   I'm sure he doesn't like being grilled by fans why his team is doing so badly.    

 

And this is what we get.   Irsay now says he feels misled.    If I had to guess, I'd say Irsay was told certain things and he interpreted them in his own way.   And as things changed his public comments look worse and worse.

 

This is unfortunate but not that surprising.

 

 

I just have a hard time understanding how he was misled ? It's pretty common knowledge that you have serious risk when your QB goes under the knife for shoulder surgery. DR's may have given him the stated recovery "rate" which actually is very high for a QB having that surgery.. I guess it's substantially lower for baseball pitchers . But fact is , shoulders are never a "sure thing" to recover. I really can't believe DR's told Irsay something that wasn't "mostly" true. Fact is he could be the "1 in 10 " that doesn't get back to normal. Or could be that he just takes 15-16 months to recover than the "normal 8 to 12. Why is God's name would Dr's "mislead" Irsay ? Makes on sense that they wouldn't tell him the risks involved in that surgery. 

[MFT5]

15 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Now we will see how this could be turned into Pagano's fault.

 

He's good as gone. Deal w it 

[dgambill]

9 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I'd wager whatever Jim's daughter brings to the table is all ready going on.

 

I get that Irsay isn't perfect, but I'm kind of stumped why people think he's the reason that Andrew can't throw or whatever. There's a contingency of people who will blame him for anything.

I suppose if he was helping scout with Grigson that's one thing, but I was under the impression that he let the GM, GM and the Coach, Coach.

His big moves have been moving on from Peyton for Luck. Bringing in Giggles and Chuck, firing Giggles and bringing in Ballard. Beyond that I don't really know what to specifically blame him for, besides some false optimism- and from the look of things it doesn't appear he was fooling many people. There's no shortage of people who just *knew* he wouldn't play this year (even though he was structurally sound enough to ramp up throwing and practice a bit..)

 

It seems to me that no one want's to accept that maybe this was all out of the control of anyone person- at least post surgery.

This has nothing to do with the Luck thing other than the OP brought him up and his outrage. I think the owner can make a big difference in setting the tone and culture of the organization....his lack of action and the action he choose with Grigson and company the past few years to me set a culture that we are trying to dig out of. It isn't all Irsay's fault but if he was to demand better from his staff and not accept the excuses and the poor product on the field would be helpful...that said I probably was putting too much on Jim....many other owners don't seem to care one bit for what is going on and just milk the money. I just think given his current capacity I think his daughter could take on a bigger role...maybe she is...but I'd like to start hearing from her more than him personally.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 hours ago, TheMarine said:

Yeah not going to take a Denver radio host over Kravitz, JMV or Tony D when it comes to sources.

 

That said, this guy probably has the same sources Mike Greenburg has about the Colts situation

 

JMV said he's heard this as well.

 

 

[indy1888]

On 11/3/2017 at 12:35 PM, The Fish said:

I'd wager whatever Jim's daughter brings to the table is all ready going on.

 

I get that Irsay isn't perfect, but I'm kind of stumped why people think he's the reason that Andrew can't throw or whatever. There's a contingency of people who will blame him for anything.

I suppose if he was helping scout with Grigson that's one thing, but I was under the impression that he let the GM, GM and the Coach, Coach.

His big moves have been moving on from Peyton for Luck. Bringing in Grigson and Chuck, firing Grigson and bringing in Ballard. Beyond that I don't really know what to specifically blame him for, besides some false optimism- and from the look of things it doesn't appear he was fooling many people. There's no shortage of people who just *knew* he wouldn't play this year (even though he was structurally sound enough to ramp up throwing and practice a bit..)

 

It seems to me that no one want's to accept that maybe this was all out of the control of anyone person- at least post surgery.

 

I don't think anyone is blaming Irsay for Luck not being able to throw. I also believe most can understand that sometimes things go wrong after a surgery or a rehab process.  The issue people have with Irsay is that he was not transparent enough during this process. He said Luck would be ready to start the season, he said there had been no setbacks and he was healing tremendously. He even went as far as to say that even thought it was unlikely they weren't ready to rule Luck out for week 1 just 10 days prior.  Then the season starts and the weeks pass and there is no Luck and there is no word from Irsay.  Why not?  A simple "Luck is not healing as expected" would have been fine, instead we got nothing and dumb comments from Pagano just yesterday saying "nothing had changed" in his  confidence that Luck would play?  Really??? Later the same day he ends up on IR.  It's a joke.  This all could have been handled better from Irsay and this is becoming a problem post Polian. This team needs a team president or someone that can handle situations like this because Irsay is a disaster at it.  Even if his intent wasn't to mislead, he has managed to make the majority of the fan base feel that way. Yesterday when they had the press conference to announce that Luck was on IR, what was the first thing they wanted to say?  They wanted to make a statement on how they never tried to mislead or lie to anyone. That means they know they have misled people.  I have always liked Irsay as an owner and defended him like crazy over the Manning/Luck choice, but lately it's hard for me to defend the guy.  He hasn't done much right lately and thats a fact. Maybe the hiring of Ballard is a start, but way too early to tell.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Nadine
name calling

[Yoshinator]

7 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

 

I don't think anyone is blaming Irsay for Luck not being able to throw. I also believe most can understand that sometimes things go wrong after a surgery or a rehab process.  The issue people have with Irsay is that he was not transparent enough during this process. He said Luck would be ready to start the season, he said there had been no setbacks and he was healing tremendously. He even went as far as to say that even thought it was unlikely they weren't ready to rule Luck out for week 1 just 10 days prior.  Then the season starts and the weeks pass and there is no Luck and there is no word from Irsay.  Why not?  A simple "Luck is not healing as expected" would have been fine, instead we got nothing and dumb comments from Pagano just yesterday saying "nothing had changed" in his  confidence that Luck would play?  Really??? Later the same day he ends up on IR.  It's a joke.  This all could have been handled better from Irsay and this is becoming a problem post Polian. This team needs a team president or someone that can handle situations like this because Irsay is a disaster at it.  Even if his intent wasn't to mislead, he has managed to make the majority of the fan base feel that way. Yesterday when they had the press conference to announce that Luck was on IR, what was the first thing they wanted to say?  They wanted to make a statement on how they never tried to mislead or lie to anyone. That means they know they have misled people.  I have always liked Irsay as an owner and defended him like crazy over the Manning/Luck choice, but lately it's hard for me to defend the guy.  He hasn't done much right lately and thats a fact. Maybe the hiring of Ballard is a start, but way too early to tell.

Great post here. I think this sums up our feelings in a nutshell.

[braveheartcolt]

Really, what difference does it make? Not playing means not playing, full stop. If you bought a ticket on the basis of seeing Luck, tough, but these things happen in sport. The moaning about this is just nonsense...

[The Fish]

14 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

 

I don't think anyone is blaming Irsay for Luck not being able to throw. I also believe most can understand that sometimes things go wrong after a surgery or a rehab process.  The issue people have with Irsay is that he was not transparent enough during this process. He said Luck would be ready to start the season, he said there had been no setbacks and he was healing tremendously. He even went as far as to say that even thought it was unlikely they weren't ready to rule Luck out for week 1 just 10 days prior.  Then the season starts and the weeks pass and there is no Luck and there is no word from Irsay.  Why not?  A simple "Luck is not healing as expected" would have been fine, instead we got nothing and dumb comments from Pagano just yesterday saying "nothing had changed" in his  confidence that Luck would play?  Really??? Later the same day he ends up on IR.  It's a joke.  This all could have been handled better from Irsay and this is becoming a problem post Polian. This team needs a team president or someone that can handle situations like this because Irsay is a disaster at it.  Even if his intent wasn't to mislead, he has managed to make the majority of the fan base feel that way. Yesterday when they had the press conference to announce that Luck was on IR, what was the first thing they wanted to say?  They wanted to make a statement on how they never tried to mislead or lie to anyone. That means they know they have misled people.  I have always liked Irsay as an owner and defended him like crazy over the Manning/Luck choice, but lately it's hard for me to defend the guy.  He hasn't done much right lately and thats a fact. Maybe the hiring of Ballard is a start, but way too early to tell.

 

So is the problem that he lied or that he did something technically to screw up Andrew (not demanding surgery earlier- as if that wouldn't be meddling to the core, another greatest hit complaint). 

Two different complaints and neither can be proven. We know Dr's gave him the green light to play through the injury. After the surgery Luck got to the point where he was sound to ramp up throwing- before the set back. Jim's optimism didn't pan out, but is that a "I did not have sexual relations with that women" type lie? I don't think it is. Maybe he just didn't heal up..

I suppose he could have said- "we don't know", but that would have created it's own circus. He's trying to make money on this thing, I'm not surprised he went with the optimism route (who is, honestly?).

 

I'm not on board with these hindsight takes. Irsay isn't perfect, but I think trying to pin this on him is convoluted.

[The Fish]

8 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Really, what difference does it make? Not playing means not playing, full stop. If you bought a ticket on the basis of seeing Luck, tough, but these things happen in sport. The moaning about this is just nonsense...

This too. The whole NFL is dealing with injuries this year of prime players. I don't see anyone blaming the town of Green Bay for Rodgers broken collarbone (it's a joke gang..)

[The Fish]

32 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

JMV said he's heard this as well.

 

 

If he's mad at the Dr's and the new GM, that's misguided too..