Do you think Irsay will make changes?

[CR91]

Heads will turn rather that's coaches or players. it's come to that and I'm never the negative type

[mahagga73]

11 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Today's rumor is Harbaugh to the Rams.

They just signed Fisher extra years. 

[The Old Crow]

I really think he should make changes and eat the contracts. I believe Luck is an awesome QB, but he is just getting killed back there. This is just my opinion , but I think Irsay sees a lot of his younger self in Grigson. Polian was kind of a mentor to Irsay, and I think Irsay has projected the older statesman / mentor to Grigson. This was Jim's first real picks post Polian , so it will be very hard for him to let Grigson go. Some insight into this was the Manning/ Luck decision/ comments Irsay made repeatedly. This was Irsay's chance to put his stamp on the team and get out of Polian's shadow. It's not the same, but somewhat similar to the Jimmy/ Jerry affair in Dallas. 

Now I bring this up because I believe Pagano will get the boot for all of this, but Grigson will stay. I've brought this up in different posts, but like in Philadelphia, Grigson's record starts out strong, than diminishes. If I were Irsay, I would clean house. All organizations have ups and downs, but you can't be throwing good money after bad. Just move on. 

[Coffeedrinker]

14 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Put aside for a minute if you feel that they should. Do you think Irsay will make changes? Assuming we don't make the playoffs which we probably won't.

Yes, I don't see Pagano lasting as the coach if the Colts don't make the playoffs.

[Rackeen305]

How did the Colts lose to the Texans on 12/11/2016? 

The same way the Colts lost to the Jags in London....

Cant convert on a 4th and 1!!!

 

Why did they call some kind of screen pass to Turbin (incomplete pass)? Coaches/Management I thought we learned from the London lost to the Jags but apparently we haven't. 

 

You can let Gore run for 1 yard. Or how about 1time in the entire game, Call a play where Luck runs/sneak for 1 yard. 

 

I bet the Patriots would have converted on 4th and 1. Yes I said it! Now get mad at yourselves!!!!!!

 

 

[WoolMagnet]

7 hours ago, jimmy g said:

Colts lost 3 (maybe 4) games because of coaching, but Houston actually has better talent.  I think Irsay gives them another chance, and Colts probably win next year against what looks like a 3rd place schedule.  Lose next year, and all bets are off!

Say "hi" to your brother Kenny.   He plays a mean clarinet.

[Thewholefnshow28]

No, he just gave Pagano and Grigson extension in the offseason so I do not see him turning around after just one season and eating that money.  There maybe changes at the assistant coach level, but Pagano is not going anywhere and neither is Grigson.  

 

Both will get at least one more season with this new power structure. Now if we miss the playoffs again next year then I can see Irsay letting them both go, but you best get comfortable as you will see those two next year.

[Valpo2004]

Sadly I think he'll keep them at least one more year.  

 

I mean afterall Grigson hit on his first 1st pick after Andrew Luck.  

[Superman]

4 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

They just signed Fisher extra years. 

 

I said "today's rumor," as in, current news.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jim-harbaugh-leaving-michigan-for-the-rams-is-reportedly-a-very-real-possibility/

[Superman]

14 hours ago, IrishColt22 said:

We basically have a completely new coaching staff this year so players learning a new system

 

The system they're learning is bad, especially on offense. The defense needs all new players, so they'll be learning a new system anyways.

[Superman]

8 hours ago, Gavin said:

If that was so Peyton would have never played a snap in Denver and he would not have went public multiple times about having words about losses over the recent years with this current regime. Irsay has made a few bad decisions over the last 4-5 years but none of them have been do to him not having a spine

 

Irsay has proven that his decision making isn't driven by ego, pride and emotion. I don't understand why people keep projecting this stuff onto him. 

 

[Colts1324]

If I was a betting man I would say no. But I also think it depends on who is available. I saw that it is a very real possibility Harbaugh leaves Michigan. Me being an Ohio State fan, I'm undecided if I want Urban to come to Indy if he decided to leave college football. Both are great coaches. Tom Coughlin and John Gruden are the other two I would love to have. 

[lollygagger8]

If Irsay doesn't clean house, this team is going to suffer the same consequences over and over as long as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum are here. 

[Dudley Smith]

10 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

If I was a betting man I would say no. But I also think it depends on who is available. I saw that it is a very real possibility Harbaugh leaves Michigan. Me being an Ohio State fan, I'm undecided if I want Urban to come to Indy if he decided to leave college football. Both are great coaches. Tom Coughlin and John Gruden are the other two I would love to have. 

 

If the Colts pitched to Harbaugh I think he would listen mostly due to Luck being the QB. I don't think he would come though. Meyer I think is completely out of the picture. He has no ties to the current team like Harbaugh does and he has it made at Ohio State whereas Harbaugh is not nearly as established at UM. You never know though.

 

I would prefer to take a chance on a hot assistant in the NFL. McDaniels would do wonders for the Colt's offense. He has that first stint in Denver that may somewhat hold him back from being on peoples' radars, but he has been a top assistant for NE now for years. There are probably some other good candidates out there in assistant positions. I just prefer they have more than 1-2 years experience as a coordinator unlike Pagano did when Pagano was hired.

[lollygagger8]

28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I said "today's rumor," as in, current news.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jim-harbaugh-leaving-michigan-for-the-rams-is-reportedly-a-very-real-possibility/

 

Tell Irsay to dump his suitcases of money on Harbaugh before the Rams do! 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Tell Irsay to dump his suitcases of money on Harbaugh before the Rams do! 

It's not likely but I see no reason why he would ever wanna pick the rams over us we have Luck and a division that's still easier then the NFC West 

[jimmy g]

Jeff Fisher is available.

 

How long til Irsay interviews him???

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Irsay has proven that his decision making isn't driven by ego, pride and emotion. I don't understand why people keep projecting this stuff onto him. 

 

People are just wanting to vent frustrations. I'm surprised some here have not started to blame the water boys yet

[OffensivelyPC]

6 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

They just signed Fisher extra years. 

I wasn't sure if you meant "just signed" him like in the past few hours or like in the offseason.  Obviously I have the context I need now with the news of the firing.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I think Irsay knew that the team might not reach the playoffs given the rebuilding phase, but if he is wise, he would demand to at least see some progress and development. I'm not sure he is convinced that is actually happening, so something could actually go down once the season is done.

[Colts1324]

1 hour ago, Dudley Smith said:

 

If the Colts pitched to Harbaugh I think he would listen mostly due to Luck being the QB. I don't think he would come though. Meyer I think is completely out of the picture. He has no ties to the current team like Harbaugh does and he has it made at Ohio State whereas Harbaugh is not nearly as established at UM. You never know though.

 

I would prefer to take a chance on a hot assistant in the NFL. McDaniels would do wonders for the Colt's offense. He has that first stint in Denver that may somewhat hold him back from being on peoples' radars, but he has been a top assistant for NE now for years. There are probably some other good candidates out there in assistant positions. I just prefer they have more than 1-2 years experience as a coordinator unlike Pagano did when Pagano was hired.

Yeah I believe Meyer will stay at Ohio State where he is being paid extremely well and having great success. And helping my bucs go far every year.

I believe Harbaugh might leave. Jeff Fisher just got fired. There is an opening there. The problem with us getting Harbaugh is, other teams might already be talking to him before Irsay decides what happens with Pagano and Grigson. 

I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want another assistant coach. It's a big risk that we can not afford if it does not work out. 

[richard pallo]

Fishers available, I'll Take Pagano.  How about trading for the great Super Bowl coach Pete Carroll of The Seahawks.  Wait he is the great coach who decided to throw the ball on the one yard line with Beastmode in the back field and cost them a SB.  Point being all of these coaches make bad or stupid calls, all of them.  No one is exempt.  

[Fisticuffs111]

I really wanted Adam Gase when it was thought Pagano was as good as gone. He has the Dolphins at 8-5 and he didn't exactly inherit greatness.

While there aren't awesome sure thing candidates every year, there are almost always intriguing prospects.

[JColts72]

He needs to get HARBAUGH now who may go to LA as fischer fired.

[Mjølner]

A point I struggle to understand in these debates is how it seems as if it is taken for granted that Pagano's extension from last year is "guaranteed". That signing him to another four years means four years of pay regardless. I understand these contracts don't work the same way as a player's contract and that it is in theory a more secure contract. How come one is able to draw this conclusion? How do we know there might not be off-setting language in the contract of sorts? Especially considering the pressure Pagano was under last year at this time when signing the new contract and therefore the cards Irsay had at hand in these negotiations.

[coltsfeva]

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

People are just wanting to vent frustrations. I'm surprised some here have not started to blame the water boys yet

Well said. The idea of bringing in a whole new regime and possibly having to wait another 3 years is not appealing. Maybe fans think an immediate turn around will happen again, which is not the norm. It would take a pretty competant coach and GM to do that... lol.   It takes time to build a championship. Despite what people say, this team has the nucleus to get there but has had an inordinate amount of injuries from day one this year and as a result, has had to play younger players who lacked experience. As far as the "bone-headed" play calls, if they were executed properly, would have been considered brilliant. Even if the Colts don't make the postseason, (which now looks likely), I hope Irsay keeps both for 2 or 3 more years to see what happens with another good draft or two and a healthy team. 

[Mjølner]

19 hours ago, ricker182 said:

No.   

No no no no.   

No. 

Would you be willing to elaborate?

[mahagga73]

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I wasn't sure if you meant "just signed" him like in the past few hours or like in the offseason.  Obviously I have the context I need now with the news of the firing.

He signed it 1 week ago, an extension. Now he's fired. ?Apparently the backlash was effective . That's bizarre. Wonder how much extra $ he got for that extra week. How stupid.

[Superman]

55 minutes ago, Mjølner said:

A point I struggle to understand in these debates is how it seems as if it is taken for granted that Pagano's extension from last year is "guaranteed". That signing him to another four years means four years of pay regardless. I understand these contracts don't work the same way as a player's contract and that it is in theory a more secure contract. How come one is able to draw this conclusion? How do we know there might not be off-setting language in the contract of sorts? Especially considering the pressure Pagano was under last year at this time when signing the new contract and therefore the cards Irsay had at hand in these negotiations.

 

Typical coach contracts are fully guaranteed, with offset language. So if Pagano gets fired, the Colts will owe him salary through 2019, but if he coaches for another team, his new salary will offset what the Colts owe him.

 

Say his contract is $4.5m/year (per link below), but he's fired after 2016. The Colts would still have to pay him through the rest of his contract. But if he takes another NFL job making $1m/year, the Colts only have to pay him $3.5m/year, because his new salary would offset his Colts' guarantees. If he takes another NFL job making $5m/year, the Colts wouldn't have to pay him anything.

 

There are likely other contingencies in his contract terms. He may have even negotiated for no offset language, though I doubt it. So while there are missing details, that's generally the way NFL coaching contracts work.

 

http://coacheshotseat.com/NFLCoachesSalaries.htm

[Superman]

21 minutes ago, mahagga73 said:

He signed it 1 week ago, an extension. Now he's fired. ?Apparently the backlash was effective . That's bizarre. Wonder how much extra $ he got for that extra week. How stupid.

 

Don't understand why the Rams would let him wait 3+ months to sign an extension offer, then fire him a week after he signs it. They basically just paid him an extra $10m for no reason.

[Mjølner]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Typical coach contracts are fully guaranteed, with offset language. So if Pagano gets fired, the Colts will owe him salary through 2019, but if he coaches for another team, his new salary will offset what the Colts owe him.

 

Say his contract is $4.5m/year (per link below), but he's fired after 2016. The Colts would still have to pay him through the rest of his contract. But if he takes another NFL job making $1m/year, the Colts only have to pay him $3.5m/year, because his new salary would offset his Colts' guarantees. If he takes another NFL job making $5m/year, the Colts wouldn't have to pay him anything.

 

There are likely other contingencies in his contract terms. He may have even negotiated for no offset language, though I doubt it. So while there are missing details, that's generally the way NFL coaching contracts work.

 

http://coacheshotseat.com/NFLCoachesSalaries.htm

 

Thank you very much for the clarification. That certainly helps.

[corgi]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Don't understand why the Rams would let him wait 3+ months to sign an extension offer, then fire him a week after he signs it. They basically just paid him an extra $10m for no reason.

Oh to be a billionaire and laugh at the idea of $10m.

[Defjamz26]

14 hours ago, Gavin said:

If that was so Peyton would have never played a snap in Denver and he would not have went public multiple times about having words about losses over the recent years with this current regime. Irsay has made a few bad decisions over the last 4-5 years but none of them have been do to him not having a spine

He kept Pagano and Irsay despite the team not progressing. Moreso he kept Grigson who allowed his QB to get beat up year after year.

 

He's quick to throw shade at the old regime in the media but will make all types of excuses for the current regime besides calling it how it is.

 

He lacks spine IMO. He refuses to tell it like it is and wont make the tough but obvious decisions. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

26 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

He kept Pagano and Irsay despite the team not progressing. Moreso he kept Grigson who allowed his QB to get beat up year after year.

 

He's quick to throw shade at the old regime in the media but will make all types of excuses for the current regime besides calling it how it is.

 

He lacks spine IMO. He refuses to tell it like it is and wont make the tough but obvious decisions. 

Yes. His "we could be 6-0" comment made me realize he thinks this is actually a good football team. 

[Luck2Hilton4TD]

I don't see it. Not at least for another season. 

[Btown_Colt]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Typical coach contracts are fully guaranteed, with offset language. So if Pagano gets fired, the Colts will owe him salary through 2019, but if he coaches for another team, his new salary will offset what the Colts owe him.

 

Say his contract is $4.5m/year (per link below), but he's fired after 2016. The Colts would still have to pay him through the rest of his contract. But if he takes another NFL job making $1m/year, the Colts only have to pay him $3.5m/year, because his new salary would offset his Colts' guarantees. If he takes another NFL job making $5m/year, the Colts wouldn't have to pay him anything.

 

There are likely other contingencies in his contract terms. He may have even negotiated for no offset language, though I doubt it. So while there are missing details, that's generally the way NFL coaching contracts work.

 

http://coacheshotseat.com/NFLCoachesSalaries.htm

I was listening to JMV today and Rick Venturi was on doing his normal Monday segments.  They started taking about Jeff Fisher and contracts and Rick pretty much said what you said but that it really only applies to assistant coaches. Rick said he would be surprised if the extension Fisher signed was guaranteed past this year and left me with the impression that Pagano's might not be either.  

 

Here is a link to the segment. This discussion  starts around the 13 minute mark. Definitely not trying to say you are wrong. I had always heard the same thing so when Rick said this it caught my attention. I will say that he also admits that nobody really knows what all is in the head coaches contract. 

http://www.1070thefan.com/personalities/ride-jmv

[ztboiler]

Irsay had lots of leverage last year....so I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there was buyout language guaranteeing much lower comp than the years remaining on their deals.

[rabidfan77]

On 12/11/2016 at 7:10 PM, lennymoore24 said:

I think at least at coach, only if an obvious upgrade is available  I think he would bring in Jim Harbaugh if he could get him.  But to get someone else's assistant is just a roll of the dice.

Maybe McDaniel's in NE, but I get nightmares of how he butchered Den's roster by chasing away top talent when he was their coach. But the prospect of Luck running a NE type (short passing game) offense would help ease the pressure on the Oline and I feel we have the WR's to run McDaniel's scheme.

 

 

[Jules]

All I know is that the Harbaugh/Rams rumors bug the crap out of me even if they aren't true.

 

Why can't we have Harbaugh to Colts rumors?

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Btown_Colt said:

I was listening to JMV today and Rick Venturi was on doing his normal Monday segments.  They started taking about Jeff Fisher and contracts and Rick pretty much said what you said but that it really only applies to assistant coaches. Rick said he would be surprised if the extension Fisher signed was guaranteed past this year and left me with the impression that Pagano's might not be either.  

 

Here is a link to the segment. This discussion  starts around the 13 minute mark. Definitely not trying to say you are wrong. I had always heard the same thing so when Rick said this it caught my attention. I will say that he also admits that nobody really knows what all is in the head coaches contract. 

http://www.1070thefan.com/personalities/ride-jmv

 

Rick Venturi definitely has more personal insight into this than I do, but I personally haven't been impressed with his statements regarding contracts in the past.

 

I'm pretty sure guaranteed money for NFL coaches is all a point of negotiation, but full guarantees are typical. For instance, the Niners owe Jim Tomsula all of his contract even though he was only head for one season: http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/york-money-not-issue-rebuild-49ers/ Chud's contract with the Browns had a $10.5m buyout: http://nesn.com/2013/12/report-browns-will-pay-rob-chudzinski-10-5-million-for-firing-first-year-head-coach/ Lovie Smith's Bucs contract was guaranteed, but had offset language: http://www.tbo.com/sports/colleges/ex-bucs-coach-lovie-smith-hired-as-illinois-coach-20160307/ (see sidebar)

 

I'd bet Pagano's contract is guaranteed, but with a buyout and/or offset language. That seems typical.