Should we consider cutting phillip dorsett

[Steamboat_Shaun]

5 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Wasn't Moncrief the 3rd WR for 2 years with Olines worst than this one?  He still put up decent stats

 

Sure, but how is cutting Dorsett while he's still on his rookie deal going to make this team better right now? It's week 11, what do we have to gain by dropping a player in a position group that has virtually no depth?

[Steamboat_Shaun]

14 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

They won't cut him and they shouldn't because of our depth, but he has been bad. 6 receptions for 13 yds in the past 3 games.

 

I could've sworn he had a 50 yard catch last week vs Tennessee?

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000742548/Andrew-Luck-finds-Phillip-Dorsett-for-50-yards

[Fisticuffs111]

13 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I could've sworn he had a 50 yard catch last week vs Tennessee?

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000742548/Andrew-Luck-finds-Phillip-Dorsett-for-50-yards

 

Yeah, I totally misread his stats.

[a06cc]

No using him right doesn't help his case. Plus TY and Moncrief come first. Also remember that he was hurt last season. Luck has no time to throw and grow with him. Next season I bet he'll improve once Luck finally gets protection.

[braveheartcolt]

4 minutes ago, a06cc said:

No using him right doesn't help his case. Plus TY and Moncrief come first. Also remember that he was hurt last season. Luck has no time to throw and grow with him. Next season I bet he'll improve once Luck finally gets protection.

Are we going to O-Lines 'R' Us? or is Jimmy writing a nice letter to Santa? Because we badly need a good O-Line doesn't mean we will get one. But it would be nice.....

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, a06cc said:

No using him right doesn't help his case. Plus TY and Moncrief come first. Also remember that he was hurt last season. Luck has no time to throw and grow with him. Next season I bet he'll improve once Luck finally gets protection.

You guys said that exact thing last year about him. This was supposed to be his breakout year. 

[runthepost]

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Sure, but how is cutting Dorsett while he's still on his rookie deal going to make this team better right now? It's week 11, what do we have to gain by dropping a player in a position group that has virtually no depth?

I never said cut him I didn't agree with the op about that. Just saying he is not performing well

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, runthepost said:

I never said cut him I didn't agree with the op about that. Just saying he is not performing well

 

He has 1 drop, on a team who's WRs currently have the 3rd most drops in the NFL.

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/teams/338/indianapolis-colts/#Points per Game$SeasonMax=9999&SeasonMin=1990

 

But, I digress. I'm actually changing my stance on this since earlier this A.M. I think for Dorsett's own good, the Colts should cut him. Let him go to a team like Dallas, Seattle, or New England that would actually make him part of the offensive game plan and get the ball in his hands. This offense clearly has no use for him, so why waste his talent on the Colts?

 

And since Indy fans love to hate him so much because of where he got drafted, getting picked up on the cheap by a legit contender would absolutely be best for Dorsett. He wouldn't have to deal with a fanbase that only wants to focus on EVERY mistake that he makes, he could just play football.

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He's the 3rd WR on the depth chart for a team that struggles to protect it's QB, how many catches do you expect him to be getting exactly?

This.

2 hours ago, runthepost said:

Wasn't Moncrief the 3rd WR for 2 years with Olines worst than this one?  He still put up decent stats

Because Luck no longer works through his progressions. I was at the game against Tennessee and was sitting next to a guy and we were commenting about Dorsett. We made it a purpose to watch him and he was open almost all game long when he was running crossing routes. Granted he often ran deep routes designed to occupy the safety opening up the middle of the field for other guys like TY, Moncrief, and Allen...but when he would run crossing and in and out routes...he was consistanty getting open. Probably a result of Andrew not having the time he needs to look at his third option or just the fact Andrew likes to stare down receivers even still as veteran now but up until last nights drop I would say when we've looked his way he has contributed...its just Moncrief and TY get the majority of the looks...and when they aren't open its a quick check down to RB/TE hot route....which means Dorsett gets skipped over in the progression. He really isn't awful....just underutilized for the most part. If you make it a point to watch the kid...he gets open quit a bit actually.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

This.

Because Luck no longer works through his progressions. I was at the game against Tennessee and was sitting next to a guy and we were commenting about Dorsett. We made it a purpose to watch him and he was open almost all game long when he was running crossing routes. Granted he often ran deep routes designed to occupy the safety opening up the middle of the field for other guys like TY, Moncrief, and Allen...but when he would run crossing and in and out routes...he was consistanty getting open. Probably a result of Andrew not having the time he needs to look at his third option or just the fact Andrew likes to stare down receivers even still as veteran now but up until last nights drop I would say when we've looked his way he has contributed...its just Moncrief and TY get the majority of the looks...and when they aren't open its a quick check down to RB/TE hot route....which means Dorsett gets skipped over in the progression. He really isn't awful....just underutilized for the most part. If you make it a point to watch the kid...he gets open quit a bit actually.

 

He was WIDE open for a TD in that Green Bay game, but it was the same play that TY iced the game with that first down catch.

[runthepost]

46 minutes ago, dgambill said:

This.

Because Luck no longer works through his progressions. I was at the game against Tennessee and was sitting next to a guy and we were commenting about Dorsett. We made it a purpose to watch him and he was open almost all game long when he was running crossing routes. Granted he often ran deep routes designed to occupy the safety opening up the middle of the field for other guys like TY, Moncrief, and Allen...but when he would run crossing and in and out routes...he was consistanty getting open. Probably a result of Andrew not having the time he needs to look at his third option or just the fact Andrew likes to stare down receivers even still as veteran now but up until last nights drop I would say when we've looked his way he has contributed...its just Moncrief and TY get the majority of the looks...and when they aren't open its a quick check down to RB/TE hot route....which means Dorsett gets skipped over in the progression. He really isn't awful....just underutilized for the most part. If you make it a point to watch the kid...he gets open quit a bit actually.

It might be because the amount of hits Luck has taken so far in his career which makes him not look through all his progressions. We the fans went from watching the least hit and sack qb to the most hit and sack qb. It might be all those hits he has taken to just stare down TY because he is the most reliable receiver in Luck eyes. 

[colts8718]

17 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Can we cut the *** hat GM and staff along with the entire D

[#12.]

"Should we consider cutting phillip dorsett"?

 

We should consider cutting the guy who drafted him.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He has 1 drop, on a team who's WRs currently have the 3rd most drops in the NFL.

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/teams/338/indianapolis-colts/#Points per Game$SeasonMax=9999&SeasonMin=1990

 

But, I digress. I'm actually changing my stance on this since earlier this A.M. I think for Dorsett's own good, the Colts should cut him. Let him go to a team like Dallas, Seattle, or New England that would actually make him part of the offensive game plan and get the ball in his hands. This offense clearly has no use for him, so why waste his talent on the Colts?

 

And since Indy fans love to hate him so much because of where he got drafted, getting picked up on the cheap by a legit contender would absolutely be best for Dorsett. He wouldn't have to deal with a fanbase that only wants to focus on EVERY mistake that he makes, he could just play football.

The further stupidity of this thread fails to recognize that there is a thing called "timing" between receivers and QB's.  Tolzien found out on Monday that he was the starting QB...two practice days to get "timing",  Please?

 

 TY dropped a sure TD and so did Donte.  Their timing isn't with Tolzien, it is with Luck.  So why don't we cut them and while we are at it, Luck for getting a concussion...same with Geathers.  Heck, throw in Vin as well for missing a fg!  Maybe Davis needs to go to as he played on a bad ankle against one of the best receivers in the game and came up short!!  Cut everyone!

[Exodus]

I sleep well at night knowing that with all the help we needed on defense, we passed on Landon Collins to take him. What a great move!!

[Colts_Fan12]

33 minutes ago, Exodus said:

I sleep well at night knowing that with all the help we needed on defense, we passed on Landon Collins to take him. What a great move!!

Also Eric Kendricks who is playing great on the Vikings D Grigson is such a clueless * 

[deedub75]

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Dorsett viewed as a luxury pick at the time?  Many people thought Dorsett was drafted to replace TY if contract talks stalled. 

[DougDew]

43 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Dorsett viewed as a luxury pick at the time?  Many people thought Dorsett was drafted to replace TY if contract talks stalled. 

On draft day, the only WR on the roster was an untested rookie Dontae Moncrief, and possibly Griff Whalen.  Reggie was old and going away, Nicks was worthless (and overrated by many on this forum), and I believe TY was a pending FA.  And draft day was a few weeks removed from getting blown out by NE in the playoffs, when the offense went 3 and out nearly every drive because TY can't beat double coverage and Reggie and Nicks couldn't beat single coverage, and rookie Moncrief could run about 5 routes.

 

Considering the roster on draft day, picking a WR in the first round was not a luxury.

 

Today, Ty is signed, Moncrief has promise and Dorsett is developing where Moncrief was. Neither is performing anywhere near what they should be.

[NeedsADefence]

On 11/24/2016 at 10:48 PM, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

Wow, the stupidity of the so called Cots fans shine through!  Why don't we cut you?  You worthless *?

 

We got worse in defense as the time went on god this team SUCKS

[ReMeDy]

On 11/25/2016 at 1:30 AM, IMissMarvin said:

Dorsett just isnt that good. He wasnt even good in college. In his 4 years at Miami he averaged 30 catches for 533 yards and 4 TDs. Hardly the type of productivity I would have forked over a first round pick on. Especially when the colts had/ have so many glaring needs in so many areas. Classic example of a guy whos stock went through the roof after he ran a blazing 40 time. Much like Stehpen Hill or Darius Heyward Bey, except those guys at least had size to match their speed. I cant express the dissapointment I had when we drafted him, and that dissapointment hasnt subsided in the slightest watching him play every week. Aside from the bomb touchdown he caught in London (which he was left wide open in a blown coverage) I can't recall him doing anything memorable at all in his time here. 

 

It's funny because your quote perfectly matches your user name.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

On 11/25/2016 at 2:07 AM, Coltsman1788 said:

So many homers defended that pick when it was made too.  They said those who were complaining were just being negative for complaining about it.  Now it's evident exactly why so many of us were upset with Griggson for this stupid waste of a first round pick.  We could have invested in defense or our offensive line or traded down and picked up more picks to address actual weaknesses.  Nothing against Dorsett personally. He has under achieved and he carries a negative opportunity cost with him.   But that falls squarely on Griggson.  

 

Been asking for oline since year 1. Draft oline, and he waits until year 5 to draft a competent olinman. Who in their right minds resigns a GM who wastes so many early picks on players we don't even need. Most of those players are reaches. 

 

You know now when we traded our first round pick for TRich, NO ONE SAW IT COMING! Because you know, while having a top RB is nice, it wasn't needed. We barely needed a RB if my memory serves me correctly. 

 

This is the same thing that has happened with drafting Dorsett. I'm sure he's got some skill. But he just isn't a first round pick but since he was drafted there, the expectations come with it. I'm sure he's feeling the hate of the fans much like all the players probably are. 

 

Werner started 16 times in 3 years. 

 

And then you have Andrew Luck 1st round no brainer,

 

Kelly a 1st round center (shouldn't need to be a 1st) who he didn't think we needed until it was obvious by injury of Andrew Luck. 

 

What will be drafted in 2017? He has shown that unless they are of an extremely obvious talent of need, then he won't be drafting that position... maybe we should draft a new TE to replace the failed Dwayne Allen project. 

 

Its too bad jim irsay doesn't realize that good ole Grigson Has failed in the first round for 3 of 5 years, and the other 2 were as obvious a talent as you can get. Both being most pro ready at their respective positions than anyone else! So in all honesty it's so obvious, he's really failed in the first round for 5 straight years. 

 

If you know the answers before the quiz is over, it's not much of a challenge is it...? (Luck and Kelly picks)

 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

7 hours ago, NeedsADefence said:

We got worse in defense as the time went on god this team SUCKS

Grammar is your friend....

[jskinnz]

On November 24, 2016 at 11:08 PM, 12isthenew18 said:

I hate to say it but he is all liabilities. Should we consider this?

 

I am always leery of a poster who starts an internet napalm of a thread such as this and then does not come back to defend or further explain the initial post.  It reeks of a troll and it is never a good idea to feed the troll.  However, on the off chance this is a real thread...

 

1) Who is the "we" you speak of?  Are you in the Colts' front office soliciting the advice of fans?  Are you in any sort of decision making capacity with the team?  If not the term "we" just irks the heck out of me.  Realize I may be in the minority on this but it is a pet peeve.  But good thing that is not the only transgression in the post

 

2) What are all of Dorsett's liabilities?  Be interested in hearing your list

 

3) Are you advocating cutting him know?  Or after the season?  In either case, what good does cutting do anyway? He is only a year and a half into is rookie contract.  He is cheap labor who very likely has not hit his ceiling yet.  The results to this point have been underwhelming for sure but the suggestion of cutting him makes no sense.

 

 

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 11/25/2016 at 11:33 AM, AZColt11 said:

I'm amazed.  With all of the other crap going on with this team people want to focus on THIS????  I will tell you all something and I want you to make sure you read this carefully:  Even if Phillip Dorsett was the next Antonio Brown it STILL wouldn't make this team good, let alone a Superbowl contender.  There are SO many other problems with this team he would be wasted anyway.  Top to bottom this team stinks right now and it's time to start over IMHO.

 

It's just humorous to me.  It's like asking WTH has happened to Jack Doyle the last month, he's disappeared!  Who cares?  He alone wasn't going to make this team competitive!  Wake up people, this team is flawed top to bottom and is snakebitten with injuries.  Nothing is going to help that!  In the real world, it's like complaining that your door handle is broken on a car that just got totaled!

 

Yes, switching Dorsett with Malcolm Brown or even Landon Collins (2 I thought we might end up with that year) would not transport us into double digit wins.  Collins would be a huge boost, brown has to fight off Anderson and Parry for his spot.

 

I remember seeing Dorsett's name up there in many round 1 mock drafts outside of this forum along with Agholor and DeVante Parker etc... that year (everyone was a step behind Amari Cooper though).  It was surprising to all of us, but I'm still on the wait until the end of year 3 before weighing in a final verdict.

[dgambill]

19 hours ago, runthepost said:

It might be because the amount of hits Luck has taken so far in his career which makes him not look through all his progressions. We the fans went from watching the least hit and sack qb to the most hit and sack qb. It might be all those hits he has taken to just stare down TY because he is the most reliable receiver in Luck eyes. 

Oh no doubt the hits have taken affect. I would say Lucks ability to read the defense though and audible and get receivers into position to get open versus the defense is much much poorer than Peyton Manning. Granted Luck has a long career ahead of him but at this point in his career Peyton was able to check to runs and passes that put us in the best position to succeed. He really only struggled with the elite defenses honestly. Luck just hasn't made that leap yet. He holds onto the ball very long even with a bad OL. He is just more of a Big Ben style qb than say the quick release Brady or Manning type. Obviously he doesn't have time to read through all the progressions so he may read his #1 TY and #2 Donte but then skip over his #3 Phillip to find his outlet to his RB or TE because he is rushed. Not his fault totally....but at some point he has to take that next step and either anticipate his #1 and #2 being covered based on the defense and go straight to his #3 or change plays to get the offense #1 or #2 options in a better route against the defense to be open. Luck is still very young and he will hopefully learn these things with time but until he does even if we get good blocking on a play it still may not work out and if we don't which is often the case...he is going to have to get rid of the ball faster or buy more time. I know it might sound like I'm being hard on him but I'm not. Tom and Peyton don't always have great blocking...sometimes the qb makes the OL better by getting rid of the ball quickly or getting into better plays/protection and that's where Luck has to grow now.

[runthepost]

52 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Oh no doubt the hits have taken affect. I would say Lucks ability to read the defense though and audible and get receivers into position to get open versus the defense is much much poorer than Peyton Manning. Granted Luck has a long career ahead of him but at this point in his career Peyton was able to check to runs and passes that put us in the best position to succeed. He really only struggled with the elite defenses honestly. Luck just hasn't made that leap yet. He holds onto the ball very long even with a bad OL. He is just more of a Big Ben style qb than say the quick release Brady or Manning type. Obviously he doesn't have time to read through all the progressions so he may read his #1 TY and #2 Donte but then skip over his #3 Phillip to find his outlet to his RB or TE because he is rushed. Not his fault totally....but at some point he has to take that next step and either anticipate his #1 and #2 being covered based on the defense and go straight to his #3 or change plays to get the offense #1 or #2 options in a better route against the defense to be open. Luck is still very young and he will hopefully learn these things with time but until he does even if we get good blocking on a play it still may not work out and if we don't which is often the case...he is going to have to get rid of the ball faster or buy more time. I know it might sound like I'm being hard on him but I'm not. Tom and Peyton don't always have great blocking...sometimes the qb makes the OL better by getting rid of the ball quickly or getting into better plays/protection and that's where Luck has to grow now.

Solution hire Peyton Manning for QB coach then Jeff Saturday for OL coach lol

[AlanNC]

On 11/24/2016 at 11:08 PM, 12isthenew18 said:

I hate to say it but he is all liabilities. Should we consider this?

No but he was never a first round pick.  Another blunder by you know who.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, AlanNC said:

No but he was never a first round pick.  Another blunder by you know who.  

 

Not a first rounder... in your eyes... because you personally watched games and tape of all the top college receivers and determined he wasn't...  {sigh}

 

Here's a 7 round mock draft performed by NFL.com 1 week before the draft that year.  Look who they have going to the Eagles at #20?  Phillip Dorsett.  And Nelson Agholor going at #31 to the Saints.  What really happened is, the Eagles took Nelson Agholor and we took Dorsett.

 

Here's a couple interesting mocks from back when--

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487820/article/2015-sevenround-nfl-mock-draft-round-1

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2015/

 

I like oming back after a few years and see how were the mocks, and how did the players pan out. I think it is too early to re-visit this one... yet.

 

[Superman]

12 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes, switching Dorsett with Malcolm Brown or even Landon Collins (2 I thought we might end up with that year) would not transport us into double digit wins.  Collins would be a huge boost, brown has to fight off Anderson and Parry for his spot.

 

I remember seeing Dorsett's name up there in many round 1 mock drafts outside of this forum along with Agholor and DeVante Parker etc... that year (everyone was a step behind Amari Cooper though).  It was surprising to all of us, but I'm still on the wait until the end of year 3 before weighing in a final verdict.

 

Almost two seasons later, the correct answer seems to be Eric Kendricks. I think that would have been a reach pick, but if you have to pick someone who would have been a great fit on the Colts, I think he's the one.

 

Of course, you can do this with every pick. If your guy isn't a home run, you can probably go back and find a better player at some point later in the draft. That's the benefit of hindsight.

[ricker182]

Wha..... WHAT?!  

What?  

  

You can't be serious.

[AZColt11]

4 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Not a first rounder... in your eyes... because you personally watched games and tape of all the top college receivers and determined he wasn't...  {sigh}

 

Here's a 7 round mock draft performed by NFL.com 1 week before the draft that year.  Look who they have going to the Eagles at #20?  Phillip Dorsett.  And Nelson Agholor going at #31 to the Saints.  What really happened is, the Eagles took Nelson Agholor and we took Dorsett.

 

Here's a couple interesting mocks from back when--

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000487820/article/2015-sevenround-nfl-mock-draft-round-1

http://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2015/

 

I like oming back after a few years and see how were the mocks, and how did the players pan out. I think it is too early to re-visit this one... yet.

 

Agreed.  But you'll have a hard time convincing anybody of this.

[SteelDragon]

The Dorsett pick is indefensible. I stated at the time, if Dorsett is not a barn-burner right out of the gate this was a wasted first round pick(the third in as many years for our supreme talent evaluator on 56th St).  Plus, we were loaded at WR.  Watch Dorsett be out of the NFL in the near future! Richardson, Werner, and Dorsett... textbook incompetence.

I'm telling you, Mr Irsay, you would have saved a great deal of money at the GM position if you had simply followed any NFL mock draft on the internet instead!

[ThaCaliColt]

I remember Landon Collins still on the board with that 30th pick as well...and the Colts take Dorsett...

 

[SteelCityColt]

2 hours ago, SteelDragon said:

The Dorsett pick is indefensible. I stated at the time, if Dorsett is not a barn-burner right out of the gate this was a wasted first round pick(the third in as many years for our supreme talent evaluator on 56th St).  Plus, we were loaded at WR.  Watch Dorsett be out of the NFL in the near future! Richardson, Werner, and Dorsett... textbook incompetence.

I'm telling you, Mr Irsay, you would have saved a great deal of money at the GM position if you had simply followed any NFL mock draft on the internet instead!

 

Yet all 3 were strongly mocked in the 1st...

[CanuckColtsFan]

As far as contract to production goes, he is worth he s contract. Why would cut him? 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Of course you don't cut him. Just don't resign him if he commands/demands anything above what his production dictates

[Superman]

9 hours ago, ThaCaliColt said:

I remember Landon Collins still on the board with that 30th pick as well...and the Colts take Dorsett...

 

 

I'm fine with passing on Landon Collins.

[Creekside]

On 11/24/2016 at 10:56 PM, GoBlue12 said:

He was a late Al Davis pick. Oooh, look at that 40 time! Gotta have him! That even after we had DHB for a year and kicked him to the curb.

 

This is exactly what I thought when he was drafted. Sadly it's been proven true.

[Creekside]

On 11/26/2016 at 0:50 PM, dgambill said:

Oh no doubt the hits have taken affect. I would say Lucks ability to read the defense though and audible and get receivers into position to get open versus the defense is much much poorer than Peyton Manning. Granted Luck has a long career ahead of him but at this point in his career Peyton was able to check to runs and passes that put us in the best position to succeed. He really only struggled with the elite defenses honestly. Luck just hasn't made that leap yet. He holds onto the ball very long even with a bad OL. He is just more of a Big Ben style qb than say the quick release Brady or Manning type. Obviously he doesn't have time to read through all the progressions so he may read his #1 TY and #2 Donte but then skip over his #3 Phillip to find his outlet to his RB or TE because he is rushed. Not his fault totally....but at some point he has to take that next step and either anticipate his #1 and #2 being covered based on the defense and go straight to his #3 or change plays to get the offense #1 or #2 options in a better route against the defense to be open. Luck is still very young and he will hopefully learn these things with time but until he does even if we get good blocking on a play it still may not work out and if we don't which is often the case...he is going to have to get rid of the ball faster or buy more time. I know it might sound like I'm being hard on him but I'm not. Tom and Peyton don't always have great blocking...sometimes the qb makes the OL better by getting rid of the ball quickly or getting into better plays/protection and that's where Luck has to grow now.

 

This is an excellent post.... However, I don't think it's Luck's youth, I think it's his style. 

[Creekside]

4 minutes ago, egg said: