What's the deal with our RB's?

[Pacergeek]

Am I the only one concerned that we are relying on a 33 year old RB in Frank Gore? I know that Frank is durable, but 33 is 60 in terms of years for RB's in the NFL. Turbin was not good in Seattle, and I'm not comfortable with him as our backup. I understand this Ferguson UDFA has looked good in camp, but we heard the same things last summer about Josh "Fumble" Robinson. I hope I'm wrong, and one of these unproven RB's can step up. We all know that Grigson is bad at evaluating RB's, but it would be nice if he was capable of finding a gem like David Johnson. Speaking of RB's, what do we need to do to get this Fournette at LSU? I don't watch much NCAA, but I have seen his highlight videos, and I want him on the Colts badly

[BlueCollarColts]

Turbin has looked pretty solid from what i've heard. I'm not too worried. 

[Patagonia Chris]

11 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Am I the only one concerned that we are relying on a 33 year old RB in Frank Gore? I know that Frank is durable, but 33 is 60 in terms of years for RB's in the NFL. Turbin was not good in Seattle, and I'm not comfortable with him as our backup. I understand this Ferguson UDFA has looked good in camp, but we heard the same things last summer about Josh "Fumble" Robinson. I hope I'm wrong, and one of these unproven RB's can step up. We all know that Grigson is bad at evaluating RB's, but it would be nice if he was capable of finding a gem like David Johnson. Speaking of RB's, what do we need to do to get this Fournette at LSU? I don't watch much NCAA, but I have seen his highlight videos, and I want him on the Colts badly

 

Find a way to move to the top of the draft or go 4-12.

[RockThatBlue]

You know its football season when all the trolls are back to posting.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Ray Rice?

[twfish]

Lol fournette? If we went 4-12 we would have a chance to pick him up. Next year's RB draft class is incredibly deep with incredible talent. Mcaffery and chubb are some names off the top of my head that I would love too have. I beleive were kind of waiting a year to pick on up in the second or third next year. IMO there was only 1 true stand out rb in this draft and that was zeke vs next year there's a ton of very good standouts that I believe have much higher ceilings than zeke.

[Indyfan4life]

Fournette? Noooo thanks. 

[JPFolks]

43 minutes ago, twfish said:

Lol fournette? If we went 4-12 we would have a chance to pick him up. Next year's RB draft class is incredibly deep with incredible talent. Mcaffery and chubb are some names off the top of my head that I would love too have. I beleive were kind of waiting a year to pick on up in the second or third next year. IMO there was only 1 true stand out rb in this draft and that was zeke vs next year there's a ton of very good standouts that I believe have much higher ceilings than zeke.

I think McCaffery is the best back out there. I hope Fournette gets all the attention so he isn't at the top of the draft and we could possibly trade up to get him.  I bet both go in the Top 10 even if they don't surpass last year short or injury.  I agree with the poster who said Grigson sucks at evaluating RB's.  (And other positions).  Let's hope he gets some help from our scouts and they find the right one.  I do agree our RB situation this year is weak, as always in the Grigson era. 

[akcolt]

41 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

I think McCaffery is the best back out there. I hope Fournette gets all the attention so he isn't at the top of the draft and we could possibly trade up to get him.  I bet both go in the Top 10 even if they don't surpass last year short or injury.  I agree with the poster who said Grigson sucks at evaluating RB's.  (And other positions).  Let's hope he gets some help from our scouts and they find the right one.  I do agree our RB situation this year is weak, as always in the Grigson era. 

What RB's have we seen Grig's evaluate? Ballard in the 5th was a good find. Robinson in the 6th didn't work out.  Those are the only 2 RB's I remember him drafting. 

 

He's brought in some UDFA's. Varga looked like he had a future before the 4 month concussion. Ferguson is a RB he really wanted made him one of the top paid UDFA's. We will see on him.   Boom had his moments struggled with ball security.

 

Then he brought in a couple of pretty good FA's. Bradshaw could play just couldn't stay healthy. Gore seems to be an ok player with a little left in the tank. Turbin seems like a good depth signing.

 

Then he made that bad trade. He gave up a 1st for that kid from Alabama. Remember him the can't miss prospect. I think the Browns took him 3rd overall. Still a 1st for a RB is not smart. He didn't look special his first year either.

 

The kid had an ok rookie year he ran for 950 yards caught 52 balls making him the team's second leading receiver and scored 10tds but only had 3.6 ypc. It was in Cleveland and he supposedly played the last part of the season with broken ribs.

 

He came to Indy and not only didn't he live up to the hype he quit playing football. We kept starting him it was a train wreck. 

 

If Ballard doesn't blow out his knee things would be a lot different. We don't make that desperate trade oh how it could've been.

 

You think not only should we draft a guy who isn't going to be an every down workhorse in fhe NFL but we should move up in the 1st to do it? We have some holes to fill on our roster giving up draft picks for a Reggie Bush type guy in the 1st doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

I don't think we go RB day 1. We finally go D and probably a pass rusher. Fournette and Cook will be gone. If Chubb is fully recovered and on the board that will make our time on the clock more interesting.

 

We take a RB day 2.There are a lot of 3 down backs coming out of this draft I think we will get one. This is Grig's chance to help bury Trent trading up for McCaffery isn't the way to do it. Freeman or Perine might be. 

 

[JPFolks]

11 minutes ago, akcolt said:

What RB's have we seen Grig's evaluate? Ballard in the 5th was a good find. Robinson in the 6th didn't work out.  Those are the only 2 RB's I remember him drafting. 

 

He's brought in some UDFA's. Varga looked like he had a future before the 4 month concussion. Ferguson is a RB he really wanted made him one of the top paid UDFA's. We will see on him.   Boom had his moments struggled with ball security.

 

Then he brought in a couple of pretty good FA's. Bradshaw could play just couldn't stay healthy. Gore seems to be an ok player with a little left in the tank. Turbin seems like a good depth signing.

 

Then he made that bad trade. He gave up a 1st for that kid from Alabama. Remember him the can't miss prospect. I think the Browns took him 3rd overall. Still a 1st for a RB is not smart. He didn't look special his first year either.

 

The kid had an ok rookie year he ran for 950 yards caught 52 balls making him the team's second leading receiver and scored 10tds but only had 3.6 ypc. It was in Cleveland and he supposedly played the last part of the season with broken ribs.

 

He came to Indy and not only didn't he live up to the hype he quit playing football. We kept starting him it was a train wreck. 

 

If Ballard doesn't blow out his knee things would be a lot different. We don't make that desperate trade oh how it could've been.

 

You think not only should we draft a guy who isn't going to be an every down workhorse in fhe NFL but we should move up in the 1st to do it? We have some holes to fill on our roster giving up draft picks for a Reggie Bush type guy in the 1st doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

I don't think we go RB day 1. We finally go D and probably a pass rusher. Fournette and Cook will be gone. If Chubb is fully recovered and on the board that will make our time on the clock more interesting.

 

We take a RB day 2.There are a lot of 3 down backs coming out of this draft I think we will get one. This is Grig's chance to help bury Trent trading up for McCaffery isn't the way to do it. Freeman or Perine might be. 

 

You know it's funny, you did a tremendous job of covering the entire trainwreck of bad running back results.... I think all would agree your summary was fair and thorough (short of a few issues.. weren't there some discipline issues as well, such as Turbin already being suspended before he's played a game for us?). So keep in mind that every single NFL team has to face all of these same issues.  They also have the same players available in the draft and the same FA's and UDFA's to choose from.  So why is it that our team just happens to be so terrible at RB for 4 straight years?  Why did we miss drafting guys or signing the right FA's or the right UDFA's every year?  Other teams found outstanding players, but we missed them.  Any team can miss one year or two years or three years, but I don't think any other team has had only 1 100 yard rushing game in 4 years other than the Colts.  Sure, the line is also a factor, but guess who is also responsible for that debacle as well?  Bottom line is excuses aren't typically acceptable 4 years running in the NFL.  Grigson has failed in the running back department.  

[theanarchist]

8 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Am I the only one concerned that we are relying on a 33 year old RB in Frank Gore? I know that Frank is durable, but 33 is 60 in terms of years for RB's in the NFL. Turbin was not good in Seattle, and I'm not comfortable with him as our backup. I understand this Ferguson UDFA has looked good in camp, but we heard the same things last summer about Josh "Fumble" Robinson. I hope I'm wrong, and one of these unproven RB's can step up. We all know that Grigson is bad at evaluating RB's, but it would be nice if he was capable of finding a gem like David Johnson. Speaking of RB's, what do we need to do to get this Fournette at LSU? I don't watch much NCAA, but I have seen his highlight videos, and I want him on the Colts badly

I share your concern. Not sure what the answer is.

[Cynjin]

IMO, the lack of a good running game has more to do with the poor play of the Oline, especially the middle of the Oline, than the overall quality of the running backs.

[JPFolks]

5 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

IMO, the lack of a good running game has more to do with the poor play of the Oline, especially the middle of the Oline, than the overall quality of the running backs.

Well, you could say coaching was also a factor because they played inferior (clearly and obviously based on actual stats) at RB and Center than superior players who took a backseat to them.  We may never know if those decisions came from Pagano or Grigson (which I believe) or even Irsay, but they played Richardson game after game when he rushed for far fewer gains than the backups did behind the same line and of course there's Harrison which reminds me of John Belushi's famous skit "the thing that wouldn't leave." 

[bradgt04]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ray Rice?

I know he did something really bad.  But if he truly made amends give him a shot.  Hold him under the microscope and use a telescope off the field.  Get so much as a speeding ticket and you're gone.  

[Archer]

The RBs have been one of the pleasant surprises of camp, with Gore, Turbin, Ferguson, and Trey Williams all getting very positive remarks from the camp tweeters.  This thread comes at a time when it should be dawning on us that the RBs may actually be good this year...

[Smonroe]

16 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Well, you could say coaching was also a factor because they played inferior (clearly and obviously based on actual stats) at RB and Center than superior players who took a backseat to them.  We may never know if those decisions came from Pagano or Grigson (which I believe) or even Irsay, but they played Richardson game after game when he rushed for far fewer gains than the backups did behind the same line and of course there's Harrison which reminds me of John Belushi's famous skit "the thing that wouldn't leave." 

 

It's not "clear or obvious" that they played inferior players at any position.  If you're talking about Trent at RB, yes it turned out that he wasn't the best RB.  But he had enough potential to be the #3 pick in the draft so they had to give him the opportunity to show it.  And at first the backup RBs weren't exactly outshining him either.

 

If you're talking about Holmes vs Shipley, the coaches see these guys every day in practice.  They have nothing to gain and jobs to lose by playing inferior players.

 

Pagano, Irsay and Grigson have all said coach made the player decisions.  I just listened to the camp interview with Grigson where he addressed that rumor for the first time and said it was bunk.  You can continue to believe it if you choose. 

 

Bottom line is, there have been some bad decisions, some bad personnel moves, etc.  Every team has them and it's easy to criticize them later.  But it's not cut and dried like you want to make it.  It's your opinion, not fact, and you have every right to it.  In my opinion anyone who thinks management is purposely trying to sabotage the team is clearly and obviously delusional.

[Cynjin]

40 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Well, you could say coaching was also a factor because they played inferior (clearly and obviously based on actual stats) at RB and Center than superior players who took a backseat to them.  We may never know if those decisions came from Pagano or Grigson (which I believe) or even Irsay, but they played Richardson game after game when he rushed for far fewer gains than the backups did behind the same line and of course there's Harrison which reminds me of John Belushi's famous skit "the thing that wouldn't leave." 

 

When I mentioned the poor Oline play, I definitely would include the coaching as part of the problem.  Also, you have to wonder about the talent evaluation, not just Grigson, but the scouts too.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

2 hours ago, JPFolks said:

You know it's funny, you did a tremendous job of covering the entire trainwreck of bad running back results.... I think all would agree your summary was fair and thorough (short of a few issues.. weren't there some discipline issues as well, such as Turbin already being suspended before he's played a game for us?). So keep in mind that every single NFL team has to face all of these same issues.  They also have the same players available in the draft and the same FA's and UDFA's to choose from.  So why is it that our team just happens to be so terrible at RB for 4 straight years?  Why did we miss drafting guys or signing the right FA's or the right UDFA's every year?  Other teams found outstanding players, but we missed them.  Any team can miss one year or two years or three years, but I don't think any other team has had only 1 100 yard rushing game in 4 years other than the Colts.  Sure, the line is also a factor, but guess who is also responsible for that debacle as well?  Bottom line is excuses aren't typically acceptable 4 years running in the NFL.  Grigson has failed in the running back department.  

I wish I could give you more than 1 like.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

8 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

You know its football season when all the trolls are back to posting.

 

The poster is a troll because he's concerned about our pedestrian rb corps??

[Coffeedrinker]

57 minutes ago, bradgt04 said:

I know he did something really bad.  But if he truly made amends give him a shot.  Hold him under the microscope and use a telescope off the field.  Get so much as a speeding ticket and you're gone.  

So beating his girlfriend isn't bad enough to blacklist him but a speeding ticket would be the final straw?

[lollygagger8]

[theanarchist]

Trent Richardson is available

[bradgt04]

57 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

So beating his girlfriend isn't bad enough to blacklist him but a speeding ticket would be the final straw?

I'm just saying make him prove he's better than he was.  Any one can say they are a better person after something like that

[Coffeedrinker]

Just now, bradgt04 said:

I'm just saying make him prove he's better than he was.  Any one can say they are a better person after something like that

My point is, a speeding ticket would not prove that.  I've known a lot of people who have been caught speeding that have never beat their wife/girlfriend.  And I'm sure the reverse is true, there are probably people who beat their wife/girlfriend that have never got caught speeding.

 

But really, in some fans eyes, how far does someone have to go where it doesn't matter if he can help your favorite team win a couple of football games that you just don't want a person like that associated with your favorite team?

 

It's sickening really what some people are willing to overlook.

[krunk]

2 hours ago, Archer said:

The RBs have been one of the pleasant surprises of camp, with Gore, Turbin, Ferguson, and Trey Williams all getting very positive remarks from the camp tweeters.  This thread comes at a time when it should be dawning on us that the RBs may actually be good this year...

I agree!  There's always some guy who likes to come along making issues where there really are none.  But of course Pacer Geek is the same guy who calls Dorsett a bust so how far can you get arguing any issue with a guy who thinks this way?

[Valpo2004]

11 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Am I the only one concerned that we are relying on a 33 year old RB in Frank Gore? I know that Frank is durable, but 33 is 60 in terms of years for RB's in the NFL. Turbin was not good in Seattle, and I'm not comfortable with him as our backup. I understand this Ferguson UDFA has looked good in camp, but we heard the same things last summer about Josh "Fumble" Robinson. I hope I'm wrong, and one of these unproven RB's can step up. We all know that Grigson is bad at evaluating RB's, but it would be nice if he was capable of finding a gem like David Johnson. Speaking of RB's, what do we need to do to get this Fournette at LSU? I don't watch much NCAA, but I have seen his highlight videos, and I want him on the Colts badly

 

Turbin's YPC was decent for 2 of his 3 years in Seattle.  2012 - 4.4 YPC, 2013 - 3.4 YPC, 2014 - 4.2 YPC

 

[shakedownstreet]

1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

[Jdubu]

10 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Am I the only one concerned that we are relying on a 33 year old RB in Frank Gore? I know that Frank is durable, but 33 is 60 in terms of years for RB's in the NFL. Turbin was not good in Seattle, and I'm not comfortable with him as our backup. I understand this Ferguson UDFA has looked good in camp, but we heard the same things last summer about Josh "Fumble" Robinson. I hope I'm wrong, and one of these unproven RB's can step up. We all know that Grigson is bad at evaluating RB's, but it would be nice if he was capable of finding a gem like David Johnson. Speaking of RB's, what do we need to do to get this Fournette at LSU? I don't watch much NCAA, but I have seen his highlight videos, and I want him on the Colts badly

To be honest, I don't think it's been bad RB evaluation, outside the Richardson debacle but I chalk that up to new GM learning curve. I feel like the problem in running was 2 things. First awful oline production and two, awful play calling. Look, this team hasn't been able to run a screen for several years and the running game has been pretty bad since Addai's first year in the league. 

 

I have confidence that a new oline coach and OC will resolve enough of the issues that we can get the RB issue resolved just enough to open up the playbook and get Luck back on track. Picking 4 new olineman should help in the long run however, it seems like we are only changing the center position with new bodies. Maybe that's all we really need as that spot did not produce anything positive the past 3-4 years. 

[krunk]

Gore, Turbin, and Ferguson are totally fine.  Turbin gets better with increased carries.    Just about anytime I've seen Turbin get 10 carries or more he averages around 4 to 5 yards per carry. Problem is his opportunities were limited behind Marshawn Lynch.  He'll get more carries with the Colts. 

 

Trey Williams to me is a Sproles/Forsett like homerun hitter who I like a lot. Problem is I think they'll end up going with Ferguson over him unless Ferguson totally flops.  No one else will probably agree with me, but I believe Abou Toure is a good back as well. I think he could beat out Williams and Todman.  The key is will they give him more carries than they gave him last preseason?  I think they will because the competition for that 4th spot or maybe that PS spot is Todman and Williams.

 

I have no problem with the backs we have in place.

[JPFolks]

2 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

It's not "clear or obvious" that they played inferior players at any position.  If you're talking about Trent at RB, yes it turned out that he wasn't the best RB.  But he had enough potential to be the #3 pick in the draft so they had to give him the opportunity to show it.  And at first the backup RBs weren't exactly outshining him either.

 

If you're talking about Holmes vs Shipley, the coaches see these guys every day in practice.  They have nothing to gain and jobs to lose by playing inferior players.

 

Pagano, Irsay and Grigson have all said coach made the player decisions.  I just listened to the camp interview with Grigson where he addressed that rumor for the first time and said it was bunk.  You can continue to believe it if you choose. 

 

Bottom line is, there have been some bad decisions, some bad personnel moves, etc.  Every team has them and it's easy to criticize them later.  But it's not cut and dried like you want to make it.  It's your opinion, not fact, and you have every right to it.  In my opinion anyone who thinks management is purposely trying to sabotage the team is clearly and obviously delusional.

Many of us were saying it as it happened when game after game the back up RB rushed for more yards per carry than Richardson did in the same game against the same opponent behind the same line.  Why you want some sort of delusional revisionist history on it is unknown, but he rushed for less per carry game after game after game to the detriment of the team.  Shipley graded out as one of the top Centers to start the season off but was replaced by Harrison who has always been bad.  Are you suggesting Harrison was an upgrade? Not according to grading systems out there nor to the naked eye watching him fail.  At the end of the season when they put Holmes in over Harrison, Holmes also played better than Harrison.  Here we are in year 3 and Holmes is gone and Shipley is long long gone and yet Harrison sticks like a piece of nasty chewed gum under a diner table.  At the time that Harrison took over, the press and this board was all over the fact that he was playing inferior and the press continued to ask why the change and rather than say "Harrison beat out Shipley in practice" which would be easy enough (and common enough) to say, they stonewalled and refused to address it all.  Why?  And even you acknowledge it has been all this time later that Grigson finally addresses it and because he says it was all "bunk" you think of course it is all explained and the truth is out.  And Irsay had that cash on him just because, not to seek out and buy pills.  Nothing to see there... any suggestion anything inappropriate might have been going on is of course "bunk."  

 

Believe what you want.. but the evidence is on tape.. watch the games, read the grading stats and the yardage per rush for each game totals if you want the truth.  

[JPFolks]

3 hours ago, Cynjin said:

 

When I mentioned the poor Oline play, I definitely would include the coaching as part of the problem.  Also, you have to wonder about the talent evaluation, not just Grigson, but the scouts too.

Yeah, I wonder about our scouts a lot and that's a good point.  Perhaps much of the trouble starts with bad intel on talent compounded by people too readily accepting their opinions.  We need to poach some scouts from teams that find guys who are UDFA's especially.  Seattle seems light years ahead of us;.  

[21isSuperman]

12 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Am I the only one concerned that we are relying on a 33 year old RB in Frank Gore? I know that Frank is durable, but 33 is 60 in terms of years for RB's in the NFL. Turbin was not good in Seattle, and I'm not comfortable with him as our backup. I understand this Ferguson UDFA has looked good in camp, but we heard the same things last summer about Josh "Fumble" Robinson. I hope I'm wrong, and one of these unproven RB's can step up. We all know that Grigson is bad at evaluating RB's, but it would be nice if he was capable of finding a gem like David Johnson. Speaking of RB's, what do we need to do to get this Fournette at LSU? I don't watch much NCAA, but I have seen his highlight videos, and I want him on the Colts badly

I think they're going to give Gore fewer carries to keep him fresh for longer throughout the season.  Add that with what should be an improved OL and I think our running game should be alright.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

44 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Many of us were saying it as it happened when game after game the back up RB rushed for more yards per carry than Richardson did in the same game against the same opponent behind the same line.  Why you want some sort of delusional revisionist history on it is unknown, but he rushed for less per carry game after game after game to the detriment of the team.  Shipley graded out as one of the top Centers to start the season off but was replaced by Harrison who has always been bad.  Are you suggesting Harrison was an upgrade? Not according to grading systems out there nor to the naked eye watching him fail.  At the end of the season when they put Holmes in over Harrison, Holmes also played better than Harrison.  Here we are in year 3 and Holmes is gone and Shipley is long long gone and yet Harrison sticks like a piece of nasty chewed gum under a diner table.  At the time that Harrison took over, the press and this board was all over the fact that he was playing inferior and the press continued to ask why the change and rather than say "Harrison beat out Shipley in practice" which would be easy enough (and common enough) to say, they stonewalled and refused to address it all.  Why?  And even you acknowledge it has been all this time later that Grigson finally addresses it and because he says it was all "bunk" you think of course it is all explained and the truth is out.  And Irsay had that cash on him just because, not to seek out and buy pills.  Nothing to see there... any suggestion anything inappropriate might have been going on is of course "bunk."  

 

Believe what you want.. but the evidence is on tape.. watch the games, read the grading stats and the yardage per rush for each game totals if you want the truth.  

You started out good and then ya blew it bringing up the Irsay stuff 

[JPFolks]

5 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

You started out good and then ya blew it bringing up the Irsay stuff 

Well, which other example of questionable excuses/responses would you like?  We could turn to politics in either party headed by two pathological liars, or perhaps we could remind folks of Mathis's Clomid story.  Point is that just because someone says something is bunk after more than 2 years of press and fan questioning and total stonewalling by the entire staff when they didn't take that approach with any other players or situations of note, it means nothing.  And for the record I supported Irsay at the time and still do.  Drug addiction is an illness and should be viewed as such.  But it still doesn't mean when you're told a nonsense story you have to believe it.  

[AZColt11]

12 hours ago, JPFolks said:

I think McCaffery is the best back out there. I hope Fournette gets all the attention so he isn't at the top of the draft and we could possibly trade up to get him.  I bet both go in the Top 10 even if they don't surpass last year short or injury.  I agree with the poster who said Grigson sucks at evaluating RB's.  (And other positions).  Let's hope he gets some help from our scouts and they find the right one.  I do agree our RB situation this year is weak, as always in the Grigson era. 

I would agree on McCaffrey.  But the Colts aren't going to sniff him unless they move up.  My bet is he's a Brown.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Honestly I am fine with our RB's Gore is a man, Turbin will be fine Ferguson sounds good, Williams has a shot, & Todman  is serviceable!

[AZColt11]

As for the original question, I don't think Grigs has had much to work with.  At the time the Richardson trade was made, it was assumed he was still a good talent.  Other GM's would have made the same trade given the opportunity, or at least something similar.  I remember reading several articles claiming how much better the Colts offense was going to be.  Turns out we were all wrong.  But you can't pin that on just one guy.  And in his first three years here the Colts won 11 games.  We didn't have any high draft picks then. This draft we HAD to address the OL.  So there really hasn't been a high RB draft pick to evaluate yet outside of Richardson.  I would imagine next season our first pick will be a defensive player but after that we may be looking for a RB.  I think getting Ferguson was a good get consider he wasn't drafted.  We will find out soon how that move looks.

 

As for Gore, I feel he's still got at least one more year left.  33 is "old" for a RB, but with the way guys workout and supplement and take care of their bodies nowadays it isn't like it was 20 or 30 years ago.  Today, 33 is more like 28.  When I watched his film last season Gore still had good speed and quick cuts.  He still made good decisions when he had the opportunity.  Problem was too many times defensive players were meeting him in the backfield where he has almost no chance to get going.  I think by upgrading the OL that should work wonders for Gore.  Oh, and having 12 will also.

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

Well, which other example of questionable excuses/responses would you like?  We could turn to politics in either party headed by two pathological liars, or perhaps we could remind folks of Mathis's Clomid story.  Point is that just because someone says something is bunk after more than 2 years of press and fan questioning and total stonewalling by the entire staff when they didn't take that approach with any other players or situations of note, it means nothing.  And for the record I supported Irsay at the time and still do.  Drug addiction is an illness and should be viewed as such.  But it still doesn't mean when you're told a nonsense story you have to believe it.  

 

Sorry, I just can't buy that the owner/GM would want to derail the team to boost their own egos.  But if you choose to believe it, it's your prerogative.  IMHO, the difference in play between the players you mentioned was miniscule.  The coaches see them every day, I'm guessing they know more than us.

 

I'm going to admit I don't know more than our coaches/GM/Owner about the team.  And even though they do, they're still human and make Trents, er, I mean mistakes.  Like all of us, we hope they're recoverable.

 

Still, you can't argue that three playoffs out of four years isn't a bad track record.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

14 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ray Rice?

 

He has been a very strong advocate against domestic violence and has been through a lot to recover and get over that hurdle.  He even has gone so far as to say he'd donate his salary if an NFL team signed him to give back to domestic violence awareness and prevention charities... I'd have no problem seeing him be brought in for a try.... whether or not he's got anything left after his hiatus and all the off-field stuff he's been through, I'm not sure, but I'd be totally fine having the team work him out and extend an offer if he looks like he's capable of being a good NFL back again.

 

6 hours ago, Cynjin said:

IMO, the lack of a good running game has more to do with the poor play of the Oline, especially the middle of the Oline, than the overall quality of the running backs.

 

Yes -- poor line play, plus poor scheme (not that Richardson would've been any better because he was out of shape and lazy, but he, IMO, was meant to run behind a ZBS).

 

6 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Well, you could say coaching was also a factor because they played inferior (clearly and obviously based on actual stats) at RB and Center than superior players who took a backseat to them.  We may never know if those decisions came from Pagano or Grigson (which I believe) or even Irsay, but they played Richardson game after game when he rushed for far fewer gains than the backups did behind the same line and of course there's Harrison which reminds me of John Belushi's famous skit "the thing that wouldn't leave." 

 

I, too, found it odd that we kept starting Harrison, Richardson, etc..... I definitely felt like Richardson was in the game so much just to save face for the organization's trade, but who really knows.

 

I don't think it would have mattered who we had at C, as they all struggled, though.  What I found more to be on the coaches, mainly Pep, was an inability (or a stubborn attitude) to adjust during games.... he was very, very predictable with his play calling to the point where I could guess when we were going to run the ball the vast majority of the time (if I as a fan can do that from my couch, I imagine it is pretty darn easy for an NFL D-coordinator who spends hours and hours of time analyzing film to have absolutely no problem preparing against the run while Pep was here). 

 

 

4 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

My point is, a speeding ticket would not prove that.  I've known a lot of people who have been caught speeding that have never beat their wife/girlfriend.  And I'm sure the reverse is true, there are probably people who beat their wife/girlfriend that have never got caught speeding.

 

But really, in some fans eyes, how far does someone have to go where it doesn't matter if he can help your favorite team win a couple of football games that you just don't want a person like that associated with your favorite team?

 

It's sickening really what some people are willing to overlook.

 

Not condoning what Ray Rice did at all -- but he has gone through pretty lengthy measures to repair his relationship with his wife, get counseling, and has become a strong advocate against domestic violence.  As gross as the video of the incident was (I think teams are shying away from giving him a shot because the video is publicly available and could be a major distraction with media, etc.), I think we should all remember that domestic violence in itself is disgusting and awful -- there are plenty of players in the NFL (and other sports) who have been charged or investigated for domestic violence which didn't occur on publicly available video who face a 6 game suspension and much less public humiliation and attention than Ray Rice got..... so, I'm not condoning what he did, but if other players who have committed domestic violence acts are allowed back in the league -- I don't see why Ray shouldn't have a second chance, especially since he seems to have really learned and grown from that situation and has mentioned he'd donate his check to help causes aimed to prevent domestic violence.

[sreeb2deeni]

As a coach, I think there are players you see as "real close" to getting the job done the way you want it done. The tendency is to give that player extra chances to overcome those one or two obstacles that are keeping them from top level performance. The player competing against that player appears to be getting shafted out of playing time, but in reality the coaches are working just as hard with player two to overcome those one or two obstacles that he is experiencing. The coaches working with them day to day know which player is closer to overcoming his weaknesses and evolving into the productive player we all want to see game in game out. All that said, I believe higher draft choices do get more rope before they hang themselves and slip out of the line-up.