Why don't we have a good offensive and defensive line?

[esmort]

Not me.

 

Not me either; I was all for picking him up for a smaller salary/vet min. type deal and giving him a try, but many here were adamant that they didn't want that "meathead bully" regardless if he made the line better or not.

[DougDew]

Not me either; I was all for picking him up for a smaller salary/vet min. type deal and giving him a try, but many here were adamant that they didn't want that "meathead bully" regardless if he made the line better or not.

Richie has had his issues his entire career, but nothing to the extent of what happened in Miami.  Which, IMO, means the situation was about 50% Martin's fault.  Put Richie on a team that doesn't have a Martin, and he is just your typical big mouthed horse's *, but not a real problem.

[John Waylon]

No qualms about the D line in all honesty.

The ILBs?

Yessssss. They were pretty awful today. Slow reads, and they just looked sluggish

[CanuckColt]

"Why don't we have a good offensive and defensive line?"

 

Because you need to scout/find these players and spend your 1st and/or 2nd rounder on them.

[Ryan Pelley]

Dallas used 1st round draft picks on Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick and Eric Martin. Those three are just outstanding.

The Jets used 1st round draft picks on Muhammad Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson and Leonard Williams. Again, those three are just outstanding.

Meanwhile, the Colts have used 1st round picks on Bjeorn Werner, Trent Richardson and Phillip Dorsett. Sure, it's easy to pick apart this stuff in hindsight, but investing early picks in "the trenches" would be a pleasant change. Signing career backups and drafting them in the late rounds to fill those voids obviously isn't panning out.

[husker61]

i have been saying the inside lb position is a problem for years! going all the way back to angerer and bracket (who almost everyone else here loved). you ether have to use high draft picks, or take chances on players that have top talent but also issues that make them fall in the draft.

 

take the luck no brain pick and the vonte davis trade away, and grigson has a terrible gm record. a lot of the players people think are so good, how would they be without luck at qb?

[SOMDColtsfan]

After 4 years?

Isn't this the reason why we lost all of these games?

I was thinking about this today. When we look at Eric Fisher, Luke Joekel and Jake Long were taken with early picks and none have really panned out whos to say we wouldn't have wasted picks on lineman too? There are no guarantees even with "cant miss players" even on players in the trenches..  

[krunk]

I personally thought the D-Line played pretty good it was the LBs where we had problems. The D-Line could have gotten after the QB more, but I liked them vs. the run. The O-Line though was pretty poor throughout the game.

 

Even in terms of the pass rush I somewhat felt we were holding back a little bit in order to contain Tyrod Taylor.

Looked to me as if we would rush upfield some and then hold position, keep the lanes squeezed tight on the inside

so Taylor wouldn't brake contain.  I didn't get the feeling we were going guns blazing after him like we will with Ryan

Fitzpatrick monday night.  Oh I'm really excited to see if we'll let Robert Mathis play!

[SDakColts]

Even in terms of the pass rush I somewhat felt we were holding back a little bit in order to contain Tyrod Taylor.

Looked to me as if we would rush upfield some and then hold position, keep the lanes squeezed tight on the inside

so Taylor wouldn't brake contain.  I didn't get the feeling we were going guns blazing after him like we will with Ryan

Fitzpatrick monday night.  Oh I'm really excited to see if we'll let Robert Mathis play!

I agree with you we seemed to hold back in terms to contain Taylor. I too am really excited to see our pass rush as well against a pocket passing QB as I think we will get after him. I think Mathis is going to be a nice piece to have back in terms of our pass rush along with other additions in the front 7.

[Superman]

???

 

Both lines played well on Sunday. There's plenty to complain about, if you just have to complain. Why not pick something we actually did poorly, rather than the same old complaints?

[pgt_rob]

We desperately miss Robert Mathis and need that fear of Mathis about to strip sack you at any moment. I hope he has over come his injury and can provide something valuable again.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

The D line gets a pass because it's young and has promise, but the O line got blown up repeatedly

and made drive killing penalties.....unacceptable.

[jabbanobadda]

Dallas used 1st round draft picks on Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick and Eric Martin. Those three are just outstanding.

The Jets used 1st round draft picks on Muhammad Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson and Leonard Williams. Again, those three are just outstanding.

Meanwhile, the Colts have used 1st round picks on Bjeorn Werner, Trent Richardson and Phillip Dorsett. Sure, it's easy to pick apart this stuff in hindsight, but investing early picks in "the trenches" would be a pleasant change. Signing career backups and drafting them in the late rounds to fill those voids obviously isn't panning out.

Yes, and Colts have been 11-5 and advance one game further in the playoffs every year.  The Cowboys and Jets with their great o-lines do what?

[a06cc]

Our offensive line has guys that don't fit the scheme we're trying to run.

[Dark_Indy]

This is a Madden team.  Great QB and fast WRs on offense.  Shutdown CB and edge rushers on defense.  Accurate kicker and Boomstick punter on special teams.

 

When a Madden team goes against a traditional bully, we see what we saw today.  We used to see it when the Manning Madden teams had to play the Steelers, Ravens, or Pats.

 

I didn't see any edge rushers against the Bills.

[XLiColts06]

After 4 years?

Isn't this the reason why we lost all of these games?

 

Have some faith. The lines always improve as the season progresses. The D-Line is a work in progress with new, young guys and while at the same time losing good players to injury.

 

The Colts started off yet another season on the road vs a very fired up team, same as last year and in 2012 when the Bears were a lot better and fired up for Luck's first ever game.

 

They always play a horrible first half, then improve in the 2H. They will go from there and improve from week to week. Even if they start out 0-2 the season isn't lost... just look back to last year.. even though they could've won week 2 if they got a couple more calls from the incompetent refs.

 

If the Colts don't put up 24-34 points on the Jets, win or lose... I will be surprised. With or without T.Y. playing.

 

So... have some faith! The Colts will be fine.

[NewEra]

If you went by most fans we'd never have good lines. They always get all tickled pink with the skill positions. I've been about building from the line out since manning era.

[backshoulderfade]

Grigson seems to be desperate to turn a late round o-lineman into a pro bowler.

[JColts72]

Maybe we should have a better scouting department to draft the key players needed on both sides of the line.

[ColtsBlueFL]

We could have had Incognito for peanuts ... but everyone was so concerned about cupcake martin PC B$....

 

Nobody (I am aware of) has ever questioned Incognito's ability, it was everything else that came with it-

**************

In his his second game at Nebraska, against Troy State, he was accused of spitting on a Troy State player.

Two weeks later, he was ejected for picking a fight in a blowout loss to Penn State

In the spring of 2003, Incognito got in a fight during practice and was suspended indefinitely

Nebraska sent him to the Menninger Clinic in Topeka, Kansas for anger management treatment

February 2004, Incognito was involved in a fight at a party and was charged with three counts of assault

In June, he was found guilty on one of the misdemeanor assault charges and paid a $500 fine

September 1, however, he was suspended indefinitely for repeated violations of team rules

The final straw for new coach Bill Callahan came when Incognito got into a fight in the locker room. Within a few weeks, Incognito withdrew from all classes at Nebraska and left Lincoln

In late September, he transferred to the University of Oregon, only to be dismissed from the team a week later.  (he likely didn't complete anger management course and adhere to strict code of conduct Oregon set out for him)

His Draft prospectus?  ESPN Scouts Inc. noted "his inability to control his emotions both on and off the field is such a significant concern that he'll likely slip to the later rounds of the draft."  Not because of ability...

In early November 2007, Incognito suffered a knee injury that forced him to miss the remainder of season. However, while rehabilitating, it was later revealed that he had been partying nightly.

On December 13, 2009 during the first half of a 47-7 loss to the Tennessee Titans, Incognito drew two 15-yard penalties for headbutting Titans players. Head coach Steve Spagnuolo benched him for the second half, and the two got into a heated confrontation on the sidelines.

 

It was the second time Incognito had been benched for losing his composure; he'd been pulled from the season opener against Seattle for two personal fouls. However, the Titans incident was the last straw; the Rams waived him two days after the game. In 2013, former Rams general manager Billy Devaney told ESPN that Spagnuolo had given Incognito numerous chances to clean up his act, and had put him on notice that the Rams would cut ties with him if he couldn't control his anger.

The two personal fouls led to a $50,000 fine from the NFL and a letter from the league office warning him that "future infractions of the types you have committed may lead to increased disciplinary action up to and including suspension.

Incognito was awarded to the Buffalo Bills off waivers on December 16, with the Miami Dolphins also submitting a claim. Incognito started the final three games of the season at right guard. Incognito was a restricted free agent and the Bills declined to re-sign him.

On November 3, 2013, the Dolphins suspended Incognito for misconduct related to the treatment of teammate Jonathan Martin, who left the team a week earlier. Incognito's conduct was said to be detrimental to the team. On February 4, 2014, Incognito's suspension was lifted.

After not playing for the entire 2014 NFL season, Incognito signed as a free agent by the only coach trying to build a 'Bully", Rex Ryan with the Buffalo Bills on February 7, 2015

*********************

Again, Incognito's ability has never been a question.  Ever.  All of the above has been the issue.

Rex has likely given him his last chance, and he knows it.  He conceivably can't afford to slip up and blow it any more.  But it would not surprise if at some point, he does.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Richie has had his issues his entire career, but nothing to the extent of what happened in Miami.  Which, IMO, means the situation was about 50% Martin's fault.  Put Richie on a team that doesn't have a Martin, and he is just your typical big mouthed horse's *, but not a real problem.

 

Wrong. See post above.  ^ ^ ^

[a06cc]

Has anyone checked PFF https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/14/ind-buf-grades-qb-andrew-lucks-high-powered-offense-struggles/

This is what some of you look at right? Then base your post off of this. According to this the blame is on the WR's and Andrew Luck.

[a06cc]

My personal belief is that we just had a bad game. Hopefully we relax this week, have a great practice and be ready for the Jets. They are also a great test for the offense.

[esmort]

Nobody (I am aware of) has ever questioned Incognito's ability, it was everything else that came with it-

**************

(edited) removed list of offenses as it has been reported enough that it is well known

 

*********************

Again, Incognito's ability has never been a question.  Ever.  All of the above has been the issue.

Rex has likely given him his last chance, and he knows it.  He conceivably can't afford to slip up and blow it any more.  But it would not surprise if at some point, he does.

 

I know everything he has been in trouble for .... At the vet minimum the reward far outweighed the risk; and if he messed up we could have easily cut him and it would have cost us almost nothing.  Our locker room is not the Dolphins we have plenty of leaders both young and veteran; he would he would have been on notice in our locker room, even more so than the Bills.  "If he conceivably can't afford to slip up" we could have given him the same "last chance" that Rex did.  He was low risk, high reward, and talented at a position of need for us ... I don't care about the media PC B$

 

Edit: To add after reading Martin's retirement announcement/interview I would have been even more inclined to bring Incognito in.

[rock8591]

I know everything he has been in trouble for .... At the vet minimum the reward far outweighed the risk; and if he messed up we could have easily cut him and it would have cost us almost nothing.  Our locker room is not the Dolphins we have plenty of leaders both young and veteran; he would he would have been on notice in our locker room, even more so than the Bills.  "If he conceivably can't afford to slip up" we could have given him the same "last chance" that Rex did.  He was low risk, high reward, and talented at a position of need for us ... I don't care about the media PC B$

 

Edit: To add after reading Martin's retirement announcement/interview I would have been even more inclined to bring Incognito in.

 

Agreed, our locker room had lots of veterans in Jones, Langford, Mathis, Cole who would keep Incognito in place. Not to mention the boatload of Stanford alumni...Luck, Whalen, Fleener, Parry, Anderson.

Richie Incognito wouldn't even have dared to sneeze literally with 52 men staring down on him.

 

If he picks his nose in public, then cut him. No risk, high reward.

[RockThatBlue]

As others have said the Defense has been a problem for ages and the front office isn't doing anything about it. Our first round pick this year was a mistake.

Why do people keep saying this? I'm not a huge fan of Grigson (but I think he's decent) but saying he's done nothing about the defense is false. We have 15 new players on defense this year.

And calling Dorsett a mistake after one game is ridiculous

[GoColts8818]

Why do people keep saying this? I'm not a huge fan of Grigson (but I think he's decent) but saying he's done nothing about the defense is false. We have 15 new players on defense this year.

And calling Dorsett a mistake after one game is ridiculous

because as I have said for years people are more interested in being right about their opinion then they are in objectively looking at things, thus they look for things that back up their point of view and in some cases make things up to support their point of view. 

[BleedBlu8792]

Has anyone checked PFF https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/14/ind-buf-grades-qb-andrew-lucks-high-powered-offense-struggles/

This is what some of you look at right? Then base your post off of this. According to this the blame is on the WR's and Andrew Luck.

 

The blame is placed correctly... 

 

Our offensive line has guys that don't fit the scheme we're trying to run.

 

And this is incorrect...

[Superman]

because as I have said for years people are more interested in being right about their opinion then they are in objectively looking at things, thus they look for things that back up their point of view and in some cases make things up to support their point of view. 

 

^^^  "Confirmation bias"

[HtownColt]

The passing game struggled, but don’t point to the offensive line this time. In previous seasons, yes, the Colts’ line has been subpar, but they did a nice job holding up against a fierce Bills defense that blitzed QB Andrew Luck on 30 of his 53 dropbacks, but only managed to pressure him 11 times.

– The real struggle for the Colts came against Buffalo’s coverage that blanketed their receivers for much of the afternoon and put a lot of pressure on Luck to be pinpoint accurate—which he certainly was not. The Colts scheme also relied heavily on isolation routes, hoping for their wide receivers to simply beat their man in coverage, rather than scheming up plays that make it difficult to play man coverage. WR T.Y. Hilton still came away with a nice +2.0 grade, but newcomer Andre Johnson posted ac2.1 grade after catching four of his 10 targets for only 24 yards.

– Defensively, the Colts managed only one positive grade in their front-seven, and it went to rookie DE Henry Anderson (+0.3). The third-rounder led the team with seven tackles and five stops, while posting a +1.0 grade against the run while playing 49 of 59 snaps.

Top Performers:

RT Jack Mewhort +2.6

LT Anthony Castonzo +2.1

WR T.Y. Hilton +2.1

RG Todd Herremans +1.8

CB Vontae Davis +1.4

Buffalo Bills

– The defensive backs stole the show, playing tight coverage for much of the game and looking like a great fit for new head coach Rex Ryan’s defense. Bills DBs deflected eight total passes on the day, led by CB Stephon Gilmore’s four.

– At QB, Tyrod Taylor had a nice debut for Buffalo, finishing at +0.4, including one of the week’s best throws, a 51-yard strike that hit WR Percy Harvin in stride for a touchdown. Beyond that, there weren’t a lot of challenging throws, but he found the open man to finish with an accuracy percentage of 83.3 percent (ranked seventh in the league this week). The one blip was his fumbled shotgun snap, which he quickly recovered, though putting the ball on the ground is always dangerous.

– As has generally been the case with recent Rex Ryan defenses, they get after the quarterback (aforementioned 30 blitzes on 52 dropbacks), though not many got home to actually achieve pressure. The blitzes did bring the illusion of pressure, which is often just as good, but with pass rushers like Jerry Hughes and Mario Williams posting identical -2.1 pass rush grades, more is still expected from the Bills’ defensive front. - PFF

[Bubbz]

because in the draft you take the best player available no matter what the situation is! duhhHh@@! we could go years without drafting high defensive players and some members of this forum would still defend grigson. 

 

so remember guys, if next year the bpa is another wide reciever in the first or second round that is what we will be taking (including no OL or d front 7). its perfectly fine because grigs has found great place holders to last until hes fired on defense (freaky jeans "landrys out", DQ, art jones etc and given them even better contracts............./sarcasm 

[a06cc]

The blame is placed correctly...

And this is incorrect...

No it's not, look it up. Only person that fits a power blocking scheme is Jack. The rest are zone blockers.

[CoachLite]

Lack of talent

 

On field? What do we need? All #1 draft picks at every position? C'mon, man!

[Surge89]

???

 

Both lines played well on Sunday. There's plenty to complain about, if you just have to complain. Why not pick something we actually did poorly, rather than the same old complaints?

 

My thoughts exactly... When I read the title I was dumbfounded.  This is the first game in years that we can say both of our Lines were not liabilities.  The Oline was up against one of the Best D-Lines in Football and held their own. And our D-Line showed play making ability... something we haven't seen in Indy in almost 6 or 7 years.

[K-148]

Mario Willams: -2.1.

Jerry Hughes: -2.1.

Jack Mewhort: +2.6.

Anthony Castonzo: + 2.1.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/14/ind-buf-grades-qb-andrew-lucks-high-powered-offense-struggles/

Mewhort&Castonzo held their opposition without a single pressure

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/16/pff-nfl-power-rankings-32-observations/

Impressive.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

I didn't see any edge rushers against the Bills.

 

He was on the sideline...

 

Also, we were playing from behind the whole time, so the defense couldn't pin its ears back and go after Taylor.  They had to play the run.

[BOTT]

On field? What do we need? All #1 draft picks at every position? C'mon, man!

why bother responding with nonsense?

[Coltsman1788]

Who knows anymore? Some here think our lines are just peachy. I'm not one of those corporate cheerleaders. Year after year we are out played physically and bullied by the same types of teams. It happened again on Sunday. But it's all fine..we have no issues on our lines. You didn't see Luck hurrying his throws because of pressure or the Bills back up running back running straight up the middle for two touchdown runs of more than 10 yards. One was nullified by a penalty...thankfully. No...Padawan, these are not the issues you're looking for. Jedi mind tricks. Meanwhile we keep losing to same types of physical teams. And the national media and other teams keep acknowledging that our Colts are too soft. Per Brady...they "got pushed around". Well he's a jerk but he ain't exactly lying here.

[theanarchist]

On field? What do we need? All #1 draft picks at every position? C'mon, man!

Actually, we just need our #1 picks to perform. Since Grigson has been here Andrew Luck is the only #1 so far that has played up to expectations. Werner n Richardson didn't pan out and Dorsett is a rookie so its too early to tell how that will work out. Missing on #1's kills your team.

[theanarchist]

Who knows anymore? Some here think our lines are just peachy. I'm not one of those corporate cheerleaders. Year after year we are out played physically and bullied by the same types of teams. It happened again on Sunday. But it's all fine..we have no issues on our lines. You didn't see Luck hurrying his throws because of pressure or the Bills back up running back running straight up the middle for two touchdown runs of more than 10 yards. One was nullified by a penalty...thankfully. No...Padawan, these are not the issues you're looking for. Jedi mind tricks. Meanwhile we keep losing to same types of physical teams. And the national media and other teams keep acknowledging that our Colts are too soft. Per Brady...they "got pushed around". Well he's a jerk but he ain't exactly lying here.

The reason our lines are not great is no mystery. You have to spend top draft picks in the areas that you want to be strong at. We're strong at QB, WR, TE because we spent the picks there. Plus, we're young on both lines. Line play is difficult at the NFL level and it will take time for those guys to develop. Unfortunately we've also had some injuries in these areas.

 

Look at the Rams DL. Most consider it to be the best in the NFL or near the top. 4 1st round picks. And they were high first round picks.