Colts Trade for Wentz (details in first post)

[poilucelt]

3 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

We could maybe push it back into the 2nd but I think the identity of our team is going to center around a good OL.  If we don't get a LT than we put that identity at risk.

 

I suppose we could get one in FA to kick the can down the road so to speak, but if it's a deep LT draft, why wait?  

 

I don't see Ballard as a guy who drafts strictly for need, especially in Round 1.

 

I suspect Ballard feels there's a top tier of OTs and, if they're all gone by #21, there are still some promising OTs left BUT none of them are good value at #21. Maybe he then thinks "at least one of them will still be there at #54," or he looks to trade down for a 2nd rounder higher than his own and picks one of them there. In other words, because it is a deep LT draft is precisely why he CAN wait, especially if one of the premier edge rushers or cornerbacks is still there at #21.

[PRnum1]

1 minute ago, poilucelt said:

 

I don't see Ballard as a guy who drafts strictly for need, especially in Round 1.

 

I suspect Ballard feels there's a top tier of OTs and, if they're all gone by #21, there are still some promising OTs left BUT none of them are good value at #21. Maybe he then thinks "at least one of them will still be there at #54," or he looks to trade down for a 2nd rounder higher than his own and picks one of them there. In other words, because it is a deep LT draft is precisely why he CAN wait, especially if one of the premier edge rushers or cornerbacks is still there at #21.

WR is a need with TY not coming back now.

[Valpo2004]

1 minute ago, poilucelt said:

 

I don't see Ballard as a guy who drafts strictly for need, especially in Round 1.

 

I suspect Ballard feels there's a top tier of OTs and, if they're all gone by #21, there are still some promising OTs left BUT none of them are good value at #21. Maybe he then thinks "at least one of them will still be there at #54," or he looks to trade down for a 2nd rounder higher than his own and picks one of them there. In other words, because it is a deep LT draft is precisely why he CAN wait, especially if one of the premier edge rushers or cornerbacks is still there at #21.

 

I agree . . . it will all be relative to what actually happens in the draft.  However with the draft being deep at LT it's a good time for us to be needing one.  

[w87r]

8 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

If you read on overthecap, part of the 2022 salary becomes guaranteed in March of this year.  So it's not guaranteed now but it will be in a few weeks.

 

That said we could still cut ties with him if he was that bad and gain back some cap space.  

Yep $15m of 2022 becomes guaranteed in March, which will clearly happen.

 

 

Can still get out of 2022 if need be and save $7m. Or post June 1st cut for more. Could trade him and be responsible for none of the 2022 money though.

 

 

I don't anticipate that happening though, unless he just bombs.

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You mind posting me a link so I don't have to try to find it? 

It was

 

1) what other teams in the last 5-10 years hired a HC from the O side of the ball without prior HC experience or even play calling OC experience.

2) other than the "well respected young" narrative, what specifically has Sirianni done in all his stops to warrant a HC position given #1 above. In other words, in his time as WR or QB coach, or even OC, what specifically can you point to purely say Sirianni was an obvious candidate statistically. 

 

You can PM me if you don't want to litter this thread. Not trying to be argumentative, just really interested if you've considered #1, and what your thoughts/reasoning are on #2.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, w87r said:

Yep $15m of 2022 becomes guaranteed in March, which will clearly happen.

 

 

Can still get out of 2022 if need be and save $7m. Or post June 1st cut for more. Could trade him and be responsible for none of the 2022 money though.

 

 

I don't anticipate that happening though, unless he just bombs.

[RNGDShobby]

As far as trading back goes, I think back to 2019 when the Colts traded 26 for 46 and the WFT 2020 2nd. 
So does 21 get something similar? 41ish and a 2022 2nd? There will still be great players available around the 40 mark including tackles

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, RNGDShobby said:

As far as trading back goes, I think back to 2019 when the Colts traded 26 for 46 and the WFT 2020 2nd. 
So does 21 get something similar? 41ish and a 2022 2nd? There will still be great players available around the 40 mark including tackles

As I have said before(other threads) it could depend on who is available at 21

[RNGDShobby]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

As I have said before(other threads) it could depend on who is available at 21

Now what happens when Fields falls to 21 

[JediXMan]

There’s Defense in the AFC South?

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, RNGDShobby said:

Now what happens when Fields falls to 21 

  And pick someone else

[Patrick Miller]

I'd love to hear Ballard and Reich comment on this trade!

[poilucelt]

5 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

WR is a need with TY not coming back now.

it sounds like Ballard may be intending to address that primarily via free agency--maybe edge rusher as well?

 

and this draft has a number of speed WRs who will still be around on Day Two--not big guys, for the most part, but guys w/ legit speed

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, JediXMan said:

There’s Defense in the AFC South?

Wasn’t about Romeo O Romeo

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

We could maybe push it back into the 2nd but I think the identity of our team is going to center around a good OL.  If we don't get a LT than we put that identity at risk.

 

I suppose we could get one in FA to kick the can down the road so to speak, but if it's a deep LT draft, why wait?  

I think there are several OTs that will likely go in the 2nd that will be more than fine, if not very good. It's a talent rich draft at a lot of positions, and outside of those positions, there are the typical "reach" positions like DE, DT, and QB, that IMO will allow several OTs to drop or simply be available mid to late 2nd, if not early 3rd. 

 

Let's be honest too, AC was not playing at a high level last year overall. He was graded out at low 70s, down from 80s. Even the 70s IMO was in part because he had Q to his right. My point is, having Q there will make a lot of guys look better than they are like AC, and will cushion things for a new OT that perhaps needs a little time to adjust. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, poilucelt said:

it sounds like Ballard may be intending to address that primarily via free agency--maybe edge rusher as well?

 

and this draft has a number of speed WRs who will still be around on Day Two--not big guys, for the most part, but guys w/ legit speed

[krunk]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/18/bears-never-made-an-offer-for-carson-wentz/

 

[BeanDiasucci]

After having a strong offensive line the previous five seasons, the Eagles line was plagued by injuries in 2020, starting 14 different combinations. They gave up a league-high 65 sacks. Wentz's sack percentage jumped from 5.7% in 2019 to 10.3% in 2020. 

 

I don't really know what to expect from Wentz in 2021, but I'm optimistic about the possibilities and think the Colts' pass blocking could help him quite a bit (a lot of QBs look kind of broken when their line sucks). Everybody talks about how bad he was this season, but not that long ago, the discussion was about how well he finished 2019. I've seen a couple of preseason opinion pieces that ranked him as the 6th or 7th-best QB in league coming into 2020, such as the one below: 

 

Quote

 

7. Carson Wentz

What Wentz did down the stretch of the 2019 season was pretty incredible. He carried a group of receivers who began the year on the practice squad into the playoffs. He needs to prove he can stay healthy and he needs to be more consistent, but Wentz at his best is nearly as good as any quarterback in the league. With some speed around him this season, he should be even better.

 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/ranking-all-32-nfl-starting-quarterbacks-2020-carson-wentz

 

With Wentz's history of injuries, it will be interesting to see what the Colts choose to do for his backup. I'm not convinced they'll be comfortable with Eason being ready to be next in line should Wentz go down. Maybe they bring in another veteran and see how Eason looks in preseason games.  

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, krunk said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/18/bears-never-made-an-offer-for-carson-wentz/

 

[Mackrel829]

44 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

It's hard to get a 1st round pick by just trading back out of the first round when you are in the later half of the first round.

 

I would say no, you grab your left tackle with that pick unless there is an elite pass rusher still on the board than try and get your left tackle with the 2nd.  

 

You'd have to trade waaaayyyy back from #21 to get a 1st rounder next year. Trading back for a 3rd is more likely.

[craigerb]

Except for pick-6, INTs are not too bad if they're 3rd-and-long (= punt). QB fumbles are really terrible (= blocked punt.)

[poilucelt]

7 minutes ago, RNGDShobby said:

As far as trading back goes, I think back to 2019 when the Colts traded 26 for 46 and the WFT 2020 2nd. 
So does 21 get something similar? 41ish and a 2022 2nd? There will still be great players available around the 40 mark including tackles

if I were Ballard (and there was no one left at #21 I really loved) I'd look for teams w/ extra draft picks like the Jets--I already mentioned in a different thread that, FWIW, pick #21 is very close in value to their picks #34 and #66. And I feel pretty certain that several good OT prospects would still be there at #34, as well as some promising WRs likely at #54 and #66 (as well as some edge guys with potential).

 

Or maybe Atlanta could like someone at #21 more than anyone Ballard likes there, and would be willing to give up #35 and #68?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The reason it’s nice to have Nelson as a chess piece is we can do anything we want at 21. 

[ColtJax]

He's making around the same as Rivers, so there's no big cap hit there. I'd see who's falls in the draft, if we don't like it or there's equal valve later I'd trade down to a #2 pick with another #2 for next year, to make up for the one we won't have. The Dolphins will have 2 2nd round picks, they might want to jump back into the 1st and would be willing.

[TheNextGM]

I love this trade for a few reasons..

 

1 - Wentz should come in with a chip on his shoulder.. play better under Reich..

2 - Trade happened early enough that Wentz can get in and start developing chemistry with WRs, playbook

 

3 - Means there is no chance Colts draft Mac Jones in the first round. 

 

 

[Superman]

21 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It was

 

1) what other teams in the last 5-10 years hired a HC from the O side of the ball without prior HC experience or even play calling OC experience.

2) other than the "well respected young" narrative, what specifically has Sirianni done in all his stops to warrant a HC position given #1 above. In other words, in his time as WR or QB coach, or even OC, what specifically can you point to purely say Sirianni was an obvious candidate statistically. 

 

You can PM me if you don't want to litter this thread. Not trying to be argumentative, just really interested if you've considered #1, and what your thoughts/reasoning are on #2.

 

1) Not sure about #1. I'm pretty sure Zac Taylor didn't have any NFL play calling experience, but he might have called plays for Cincinnati. Doug Pederson had half a season with KC. No one really comes to mind, except Jim Caldwell, but that's more than 5-10 years ago. 

 

2) I don't think I suggested Sirianni was an obvious head coaching candidate. Just that he fit the trend.

 

I'm not, and never have, endorsed the Eagles' hiring of Sirianni. But I didn't believe that they hired him to assuage or fix Wentz, and I didn't think that their actions before or after hiring Sirianni indicated that they were trying to find a guy who was going to make it easier to navigate the Wentz situation. 

 

Sirianni's presser wasn't impressive, but he definitely didn't say anything that sounded like 'I'm here to work with Wentz.' He didn't anything that was remotely committal to Wentz.

[Zoltan]

31 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I think there are several OTs that will likely go in the 2nd that will be more than fine, if not very good. It's a talent rich draft at a lot of positions, and outside of those positions, there are the typical "reach" positions like DE, DT, and QB, that IMO will allow several OTs to drop or simply be available mid to late 2nd, if not early 3rd. 

 

Let's be honest too, AC was not playing at a high level last year overall. He was graded out at low 70s, down from 80s. Even the 70s IMO was in part because he had Q to his right. My point is, having Q there will make a lot of guys look better than they are like AC, and will cushion things for a new OT that perhaps needs a little time to adjust. 

Just heard something interesting on Pat McAfee show, the Eagles QB coach has known Jalen Hurts since he was like 4 years old. I’m thinking they will be sticking with Hurts and grabbing a WR at 6, since they grabbed a coach that has a long history with Hurts

[poilucelt]

12 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The reason it’s nice to have Nelson as a chess piece is we can do anything we want at 21. 

either

 

1) Quenton Nelson is the Chuck Norris of the NFL or

 

2) Chuck Norris is the Quenton Nelson of Hollywood

 

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

9 minutes ago, TheNextGM said:

I love this trade for a few reasons..

 

1 - Wentz should come in with a chip on his shoulder.. play better under Reich..

2 - Trade happened early enough that Wentz can get in and start developing chemistry with WRs, playbook

 

3 - Means there is no chance Colts draft Mac Jones in the first round. 

 

 

[poilucelt]

45 minutes ago, RNGDShobby said:

Now what happens when Fields falls to 21 

unlikely, but I could see Jones falling to #21....and Pittsburgh, and especially New Orleans, being interested in trading up for him

[harrisoncolts88]

First off I'm pretty happy he's coming to Indy and we get to see someone who hopefully can shine for the next decade. And I'm super happy we still have our 1st and 2nd round picks this year to really upgrade this roster. As far as the picks given up in this trade, it was going to happen regardless of what QB you wanted (either Vet or going up in the draft and getting "your" QB). And plus we've seen Ballard hit in all rounds of the draft (front, middle, back end of the draft). And he will most likely recoup these picks he just gave away. Either trading back or what I keep beating the drum about which is Compensatory picks in future years because he can't keep everyone he drafts. I think the only thing that stings and it's more of a selfish thing is just the pure excitement on draft night of the 1st round pick and the anticipation of who is it going to be. But us who love football, get that with every pick in the draft that the Colts make so everything will be alright.

[krunk]

50 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I think he needs those big guys like he had in Philly. The big athletic tight ends like Goedert and Ertz. Plus the big bodies like Alshon and Torrie. Weve got Pittman and maybe Patmon right now. Need one more upgrade at WR and 1 more at TE me thinks.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think he needs those big guys like he had in Philly. The big athletic tight ends like Goedert and Ertz. Plus the big bodies like Alshon and Torrie. Weve got Pittman and maybe Patmon right now. Need one more upgrade at WR and 1 more at TE me thinks.

Don’t forget Togiai

[07dleigh]

Win. First off, any QB succeeds in our system. All he needs to do is throw the ball deep 3 times a game (to a guy that is open more times than not when we dial it up) lol. Jacoby was mentally unwilling, Phillip physically couldn’t threaten consistently. He doesn’t even NEED to be 100% his potential, lol we just needed an arm really!
 

W/ that being said I think he DOES get back to full potential in such an easy setting, he doesn’t NEED to be Superman like he had to be in Philly every game.. he can reeeelax. With his job becoming so much easier, he’ll get back to his best... there’s no better place to do that than with us. It’ll slow back down, he won’t be seeing ghosts bc of horrendous blocking. I was all in on Wentz or Winston. Give us the arm! The rest can/will come later.  

 

Great work by Chris per usual imo... still have our first AND second this year! Second next year only becoming a first if he isn’t terrible & injured. We draft great, so not worried about giving up picks, we’ll always get a stud. We get a LT, WR, and edge... SUPER BOWL. I genuinely think we’re coming for Mahomes. Let’s go!
 

 

[EastStreet]

28 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

Just heard something interesting on Pat McAfee show, the Eagles QB coach has known Jalen Hurts since he was like 4 years old. I’m thinking they will be sticking with Hurts and grabbing a WR at 6, since they grabbed a coach that has a long history with Hurts

Just my opinion, but I doubt that will factor much. I struggle to think Sirianni will be all in on building around Hurts. That's just a huge gamble for a first year HC. And in that position, you can't waste a 6th if you have QB questions, and the Eagles have QB questions. The only way I see them not taking a QB is if they bring in a vet in FA, or if Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, and Lance are gone by 6th. Perhaps if they go complete rebuild, but that will take years and doubt Sirianni wants long term pain.

[coming on strong]

wentz will be a pro bowler next year, colts will do the same thing they did to rivers .   Done deal no more statue in the pocket wentz is young and can move with a strong arm .    we are super bowl contenders now

[krunk]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Don’t forget Togiai

Maybe Togiai but i think hes more of a backup plan. We will see. We need those big bodies though. Especially with our run the damn ball philosophy and Carson liking the deep ball. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Did he play with Sproles in 2017? Wondering how well he will do with Hines.

[shasta519]

6 minutes ago, dw49 said:

If he's a bust , we can cut him after 2021 with no cap hit ... I believe .

 

True...I believe they guarantee on the third day of the league year.

[RNGDShobby]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

 

True...I believe they guarantee on the third day of the league year.

15m of his 2022 contract becomes guaranteed this year. so we'll be on the hook for that regardless.